Top 10 A vs Top 10 AA

Artificial Ice · Post by **Artificial Ice** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:14 pm

Alright, let's have a little fun. Let's matchup the ranked A team vs the equally ranked AA team. How many of these games will the class A win? 1) Blake (#1A) vs EP (#1AA) 2) Hibbing (#2A) vs NSP (#2AA) 3) SSP (#3A) vs Stillwater (#3AA) 4) Warroad (#4A) vs Coon Rapids (#4AA) 5) NP (#5A) vs BSM (#5AA) 6) Alex (#6A) vs Wayzata (#6AA) 7) Crookston (#7A) vs Roseville (#7AA) <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Farmington (#8A) vs Cloquet (#8AA) 9) Shakopee (#9A) vs Centennial (#9AA) 10) Totonio-Grace (#10A) vs CDH (#10AA)

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:57 pm

If we have a "true" ranking here, (and who knows what that is?) I wouldn't bet on any of the single A teams, except one; I'd take Warroad over CR, because of the Holly Roberts factor. Other than that, I'd give Hibbing a slight chance to upset with good D. Long shots; Farmington because I'm under the impression that Cloquet can sometimes be offensively-chanllenged, and Totino if Anna McDonald got enough shots at Mickey Jobman.

19962001 · Post by **19962001** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:47 pm

You have to give Alex a shot vs Wayzata If you look at their only common opponent (St Cloud Tech) This is what you get Alex 2 Tech 1 Wayzata 3 Tech 2 ot

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:26 pm

AS MNHOCKEYGAL said a while back, there is just no comparison between A & AA. I agree with that statement. the power rankings say the following: 1) Blake (#1A) vs EP (#1AA) Odds - 20-1 EP 2) Hibbing (#2A) vs NSP (#2AA) 3.75-1 NSP 3) SSP (#3A) vs Stillwater (#3AA) 2.2-1 Stillw 4) Warroad (#4A) vs Coon Rapids (#4AA) 1.5-1 CR 5) NP (#5A) vs BSM (#5AA) 7.25-1 BSM 6) Alex (#6A) vs Wayzata (#6AA) 5.3-1 WAy 7) Crookston (#7A) vs Roseville (#7AA) 4.5-1 RV Farmington (#8A) vs Cloquet (#8AA) 4.4-1 CEC 9) Shakopee (#9A) vs Centennial (#9AA) 7.2-1 Cen 10) Totonio-Grace (#10A) vs CDH (#10AA) 8-1 CDH By the way, I disagree with these rankings. My favorite rankings move occured this past week AP wise. #19 A Simley loses 4-3 EN to #8 Shakopee, beats #11 Mahtomedi 3-2, and loses 2-1 to #2AA NSP and they move down to #20 A. Right.

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:44 pm

I couldnt agree more. How in the hell is a team that is 4-16-1 ranked 19th, or 20th or in the top 20 of anything???? Wow.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:18 am

One example would be if there were only 20 teams. If a team had played every other team at least once, and had went 4-16-1, that woudl leave them ranked above at least 2 teams, potentially tied with one, and ranked below about 15-16. So, in this example, they could be ranked as high as maybe 15. For example, with or without 20+ teams, if the 16 losses came against the top 8 teams, each played 2x, then it may be fair to assume that your team could be ranked as high as #9, assuming that they hadn't lost to teams ranked 10-??? Otherwise, if there are more than 20 teams, it may be that some consideration is placed on how strong the opponents were that were played by a team that had that record. When evaluating/ranking a team, and also how a team did record wise, some consider this: Record alone doesn't determine a team's strength, as if you beat team ranked #100 10 times and you're 10-0, that means that you can only say you're better than #100. Not #1 just b/c you are 10-0... This consideration is called "Strength-of-Scheudle" or "SOS." So it is possible for a team that is 4-16-1 ranked 19th, or 20th or in the top 20 of anything. In fact, a team with such a record, and the 3rd strongest SOS in their class, may just be deserving of higher ranking, even with many losses against top teams. Here's some good reading to help with understanding this: <a href="http://home.comcast.net/~simley/girls/S ...  Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/21/06 1:20 am

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:54 am

I don't know if anyone's said it, but I think that everyone's got the same way of ranking teams in their own mind. We look at the list of teams and think "team F could beat team G, but couldn't beat team E." If you think in these terms when looking at the single A rankings, I think that your "hockey intuition" gives you a good idea of where teams should really be. Simley might be 19th or 20th, but you have to wonder if they would truly lose to some of the southern MN teams ranked above them. Austin, New Ulm and Albert Lea have all more or less lost to each other and beat each other, but haven't beaten anyone else of note. So while these teams have good records because of their southern MN schedule and have good wins because they've beaten each other, in our minds, we might be reasonably sure that a team like Simley, (who can play with many top ranked teams from the metro area,) could beat these top ranked south teams. Or I could be wrong. The danger with ranking in our minds is the subjective factor. Then again, opinions make things more interesting than only the facts and numbers.

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:51 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>One example would be if there were only 20 teams. If a team had played every other team at least once, and had went 4-16-1, that woudl leave them ranked above at least 2 teams, potentially tied with one, and ranked below about 15-16. So, in this example, they could be ranked as high as maybe 15.<hr></blockquote> If I hadnt read that with my own eyes, I wouldnt have believed it. I dont doubt its quite possible Simley may be better than several "A" teams ahead of it. "A" is definitely that weak. Rankings dont mean much as most would agree. However, to argue whether a team that is 4-16-1 should be ranked is one of the most silly debates ever posted here.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:01 am

I agree with you on the A thought: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I dont doubt its quite possible Simley may be better than several "A" teams ahead of it. "A" is definitely that weak.<hr></blockquote> A is so different than AA. This is why private and public teams with transfers can do so well in A so easily, as the true small school homegrown A teams just can't compete with the public w/transfer & private A teams - let alone the best private, public homegrown, and public w/transfer AA teams. For this reason, it should easily make sense as to how a true Class A homegrown team team that plays all the best private, public, and public w/transfer AA teams - and the best public w/transfer & private A teams - can then be ranked even with a poor record. I tried to illustrate this with my 16 loss 2x top 8 schedule scenario and a team having 16 losses as a result and still being ranked 9. The punishment for programs that play a tough schedule is many losses and being underrated. This is especially true for true homegrown class A programs in the metro that play all the best private, public, and public w/transfer AA teams - and the best public w/transfer & private A teams. As I've said before, Richfield, St. Louis Park, Lakeville S., Simley and others are all 10-15+ loss programs that are homegrown class A metro schools in this position. Simley has by far the toughest schedule of the four, but all are underrated (IN THE CONTEXT OF CLASS A), as people (and even some rankers) look at wins alone and don't understand how SOS plays into rankings. I think this is where some don't understand, and it's easily overlooked, but results in entirely inaccurate interpretation of the situation, and subsequently rankings are skewed as a result. By the way, the same sort of thing is happening in AA as well. Hill Murray is a top 20 team, but look at their record, and then PLEASE look at their SOS and schedule. Unfortunately they too - like Simley - have lost to many of the very top teams on their schedule, and beaten some others that they most definitely should have. They just haven't beaten enough of the top teams on their schedule to: #1 - get the record to "wow" people, and #2 - get the rankers attention as the "SOS" factor seems to not be too obvious to even the rankers either at times. I do agree that: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Rankings dont mean much as most would agree.<hr></blockquote> The only time I care is when a discussion starts, and people miss the key discussion points and items for consideration when putting together a ranking - namely not only W's, but you have to have a decent SOS to really be labeled a top team I believe, and you also have to understand what context you are labeling something "top" 10-20 etc. I.e. classes, etc. And you have to have a fundamental understanding of the differences between different groups of teams as well (again, classes). Here's my disclaimer - this is not directed at the LPH rankers, as I know them and think they're great people. I know they get this, and this is likely why a 4-16 team is still in the top 20 in A. Some have told me that they even vote Simley much higher that 20, etc. for much of the rationale above. Also - please read the SOS thread as it gives some more related "theoretical" and other specific example info. on this topic I believe. <a href="http://p100.ezboard.com/fmnhsfrm7.showM ...  Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/21/06 12:36 pm

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:23 am

SE, well said. And I want to say that it's hard to tell who would win between a 16 L team that plays a top SOS (35 or so) and a 16W team that plays a weak SOS (110 or so). That's all my point is. And, again, this is all simply in the context of Class A!!! We have to remember that Class AA doesn't have a class above it that is considered far superior to play all its games against the top teams in a CLASS AAA for example. I woudl bet that any HS team that did what Simley did in the context of AA (which woudl amount to playing all TOP MWEHL or AAA teams) would end up with a 10-15 L record too - but woudl you then punish them in the Class AA rankings? No. You'd look at how they fared within their "pool" (read as Class) and rank them accordingly. Hopefully this makes sense. And, I also agree with this, but some are looking WAY TOO MUCH at record and not enough at SOS and other considerations: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think that everyone's got the same way of ranking teams in their own mind. We look at the list of teams and think "team F could beat team G, but couldn't beat team E." If you think in these terms when looking at the single A rankings, I think that your "hockey intuition" gives you a good idea of where teams should really be.<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/21/06 11:24 am

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:18 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Rankings dont mean much as most would agree. However, to argue whether a team that is 4-16-1 should be ranked is one of the most silly debates ever posted here.<hr></blockquote>Rankings shuoldn't mean much to us. However, they do mean something to many of the players. For that reason alone, its more than reasonable to rank a good team that has few wins because of a tough schedule. A good team is still a good team, regardless of the wins and losses. But if the record is that important, then here are your top A teams: 1. Alexandria 16 - 1 - 3 2. Marshall 16 - 3 - 0 3. Farmington 16 - 4 - 0 4. Shakopee 15 - 5 - 0 5. Warroad 15 - 5 - 1

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:25 pm

Agreed. The only point I'd like to make too is that St. Louis Park, Richfield, Lakeville S., and Simley are homegrown class A small-schools playing a strong schedule. Not all non-metro small school Class A homegrown programs have the luxury of playing as strong a scheudle as they are outstate (it's an issue of geography, not a lack of desire potentially). I don't believe that we should punish the outstate A's with many W's and a weaker SOS, but at the same time we shouldn't punish the homegrown metro A's. Non homegrown metro A's and privates usually don't have to worry about being underrated. SOS = Average rank of opponent played. # TEAM RECORD SOS 1. Alexandria 16 - 1 - 3 79.286 2. Marshall 16 - 3 - 0 102.412 3. Farmington 16 - 4 - 0 60.600 4. Shakopee 15 - 5 - 0 72.053 5. Warroad 15 - 5 - 1 38.947 By comparison: TEAM RECORD SOS Richfield 6-15-0 52.5 Simley 4-16-1 36.850 St. Louis Park 6-14-0 58.3 Lakeville S. 5-14-1 50.762 Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/21/06 12:34 pm

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:39 pm

Meant to mention that head-to-head and common opponents (like what is considered for section rankings/seeding) should go into any ranking thought process when looking at record & SOS to start. The best example of this is if a team is 16-4 and a 100 SOS (average opponent rank), and another team is 4-16 and 35 SOS, you can't just say the team with 16W's is better. You have to look at the scores, if there was head-to-head, and if not (or also maybe even still) common opponents. Also, you need to always consider "upsets." If a Team A outshoots Team B 2, 3, 4+ to 1 and loses the game, this just may be an upset, etc. The RV Centennial game was a good potential example of this recently. RV outshot Cent 50-10 or so, but had Centennial pulled out the W (which they almost did due to McCready's play), that woudl have been an upset, and one must consider how adversely this scenario should impact the rating of both the teams. Moral Victories (read as close L's) may be taken into consideration too, but a L is still a L is still a L. It does show the capability to play with good teams however. Stronger consideration of close L's should be given if shot count is close. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/21/06 1:41 pm

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:12 pm

Please note that all the specific ranking, SOS, etc. #'s may have changed now that the rankings were rerun this afternoon, and will do so again after tonight's scores come in I would imagine.

royalshockey06 · Post by **royalshockey06** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:50 pm

Led by the amzing core of seniors emily haedrich, Katie cosgrove and jess cascalenda. i watched this team pla bnumerous times and they are unstoppable when they pklay their game. should be fun watching them at a packed xcel energy center

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:21 pm

Sibley has a good team this year.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:46 pm

These stats changed again obviously with rerunning the results. Also, I think the point of an A team with 15+ losses being ranked in top 20 in anything is best illustrated by looking at today's KRACH. The A team in question has lost games to teams ranked the following: In AA: #2 (2 games) #9 #15 #16 #17 #20 #23 (2 games) #49 (10 losses) In A: #1 #3 #5 #10 #13 (Split) #23 (6 losses) The 4 wins have come against: #30AA #51AA #55AA #13A And the tie: #42AA The remainder of this team's scheudle includes: #17AA #23A #1A #34A The team has the 10th hardest (of 126 teams) schedule in the state right now with an average opponent rank of ~35. This homegrown A team plays the 3rd hardest Class A scheudle in the state (of 55 teams). Once again we see that SOS has an impact on record and must be taken into consideration when ranking/seeding. W's alone can't be used. The unranked metro strong SOS teams in the top A SOS need to be considered for top 20 ranking: SOS LPH TEAM SOS RATING GP W L T 1 3 South St. Paul 30.476 183.566 21 14 6 1 2 2 Hibbing 31.864 171.527 22 14 7 1 3 20 Simley 35.333 8.244 21 4 16 1 4 4 Warroad 39.050 163.304 22 16 5 1 5 11 Mahtomedi 47.500 19.157 22 10 11 1 6 1 Blake 49.900 138.763 20 14 4 2 7 Lakev. South 50.000 5.420 20 5 14 1 8 Richfield 52.714 4.097 22 6 16 0 9 13 Roseau 55.348 13.300 23 11 12 0 10 10 Totino-Grace 58.190 27.879 21 13 8 0 11 5 New Prague 58.952 51.753 21 15 6 0 12 8 Farmington 59.667 74.997 21 17 4 0 13 St. Louis Park 60.000 2.914 22 6 16 0 We currently have 7 teams in the top 20 LPH for A that don't have an average rank of opponent above 70 overall. Only 7 A teams have a 50 or lower opponent average rank (and 1 of these isn't ranked - Lakeville S.). By comparison, we have only 3 teams (Coon Rapids, Bemidji, and Maple Grove) on the top 20 LPH for AA that have an average rank of opponent below 50. I think this easily illustrates the differences in A and AA SOS wise. SOS has to be a HUGE factor in rating/seeding A teams as a result. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 1/22/06 1:04 pm

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:26 am

Someone recently pointed out to me that there are some AA teams that deserve consideration as strong teams too due to this same sort of phenomenon (Extremely strong SOS, average record at best): 5 come to mind - in no particular order: 1) Hill-Murray (as cited before) 2) Grand Rapids-Greenway 3) Blaine 4) Hastings (record not accurate as had early season inj/players out - watch out for this team...) 5) WBL

zoe25 · Post by **zoe25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:17 am

Strength of schedule always should be a part of rankings. It should be possible for a team that is 14-3 with a weak schedule to be ranked behind a team 11-6 with a very tough schedule. No matter discussing strength of schedule or rankings, it will always have an element of subjectivity. Thats just the way it is. All that said - the above argument is one of the most hilarious things I have ever seen posted on these Boards. Trying to make an argument that due to a tough schedule someone who is has 4 wins in 21 games should somehow be ranked is like saying the D- I got in Calculus is really good because its a tough class. You get to point out you willingly took a very hard class, you certainly dont get to say you did very well. Arguments like a record of 4-16-1 warrants a top 20 ranking reminds you the majority of the posters are pretty shameless in plugging their home team. ghshockeyfan I am guessing has a daughter on the team (if isnt a player on that team themself). Lets try to keep it at least a little realistic!!!

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:56 am

Zoe... The Krach rankings are just a formula based on wins and loses. It's fair to disagree with validity of the math. GHS coaches the team in question, he doesn't have a daughter. I don't think he is plugging his team, only trying to explain why the ranking worked like it did. He offers examples of what would cause a 16 game loser to be ranked higher than a 16 game winner. The simple explanation for the Krach system is this, if you play the worst team in the state 25 times and win them all, it only proves you are better than 1 team. If you play the best team in the state 25 times and lose them all, it only proves you are worse than 1 team. This is the extreme case for the argument but if you insert 10 bottom or top teams into this explanation it works the same. For these systems to work well, teams need to get out and play a more diverse schedule for their non conference games. GHS, please feel free to correct my example if I have it wrong.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:39 am

xk1 has it right, but there's more to it too. I'm not a parent, I'm not on the team, I'm the coach. As to the class grade analogy for calc - lots can determine the worthiness of a grade in a class, etc. What is the scale? What is the curve? That grade alone, like a W/L record, means nothing taken out of context, and your example of class grade is so much like record for most as its context is not given! (well - it's partially given - calc...) It's easy to say "a D is bad" or "4-17 - that team sucks." What's the context? Who were the "opponents" in the classroom or on the rink? Were they strong? Did that play a role? Who are you comparing to whom? Very, very important. Maybe your D was in a "honors class," and relative to the "non-honors" kids your D was great! So, who are we comparing? That's what I have to ask. Do we say soneone is stupid or they suck because they went up against the best and had limited sucess? No, but it's easy to do so, as most make the mistake of being blind to context. All we know as a result is by looking at the specific context we can then determine an appropriate assessment. Context is SO critical!!! MNHOCKEYGAL pointed out just how different the Class A landscape is than the AA (context). It is VERY different. For this reason, when you have a team that plays all the very best teams in the state, then that team can still have a poor record and be a decent team (context). More easily believeable examples of this happen with Hill-Murray, etc. in AA who have a .500 or so record and an AMAZING SOS (context)... In A, the whole situation is 100 times worse as most A teams don't play an average AA SOS schedule, let alone a top one. Now, take an A team, play a top 10 SOS (not top 10 in A, but top 10 in AA) and see what happens (context, context, context). Keep in mind that you're doing this with a homegrown small-school class A team. Not a private or public w/many transfer class A team (context). The team in question has the 8th hardest schedule in the state right now (of 126 teams in Class A and AA). Their specific results have been described in other threads and maybe even above in this one (context). The degree of severity re: their schedule and other A teams is best seen when looking just at the top 10 SOS in A even... (context): The average rank of opponent for a class A team is 75 (of 126 teams). The team in question has a rank #3 and half that of the average. By the time you get to the #19 hardest schedule in A it is already 2x greater (avg rank = 70+) than the team in question (35): RK&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TEAM&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SOS (average rank of opponent) 1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp South St. Paul&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 30.318 2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Hibbing&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 31.682 3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Simley&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34.727 4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Warroad&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 38.429 5&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mahtomedi&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 46.174 6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Lakev. South&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 48.857 7&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Blake&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 51.810 8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Richfield&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 52.286 9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Totino-Grace&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 55.318 10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Roseau&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 56.667 11&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Farmington&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 58.810 12&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp St. Louis Park&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 59.591 13&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp New Prague&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 60.727 14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Albert Lea Tigers&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 63.650 15&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Hutchinson&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 64.667 16&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Red Wing&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 68.200 17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mankato West&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 68.667 18&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Shakopee&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 69.857 19&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Breck&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 71.050 20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp St. Paul United&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 71.316 21&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Austin&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 71.714 22&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Fergus Falls&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 72.158 23&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp International Falls&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 72.789 24&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Detroit Lakes&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 73.263 25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Crookston&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 73.632 26&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Alexandria&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 74.591 27&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Little Falls&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 74.714 28&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Faribault&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 74.765 29&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Thief River Falls&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 75.762 30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mankato East&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 76.647 31&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willmar&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 76.818 32&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Northfield&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 76.850 33&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Lake of the Woods&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 79.167 34&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Silver Bay/Two Harbors&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 80.700 35&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Orono&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 81.524 36&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp East Grand Forks&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 82.941 37&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp St. Agnes/St. Bernards/Concordia Academy&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 82.944 38&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Princeton&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 83.900 39&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mound-Westonka&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 84.609 40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Eveleth&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 84.824 41&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Moose Lake&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 86.812 42&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp New Ulm&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 88.053 43&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Park Rapids&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 88.800 44&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Minnehaha Academy&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 89.095 45&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp St. Peter/Lesueur-Henderson&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 91.952 46&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Babbitt-Embarrass&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 96.833 47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Morris/Benson/Hancock&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 97.421 48&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 98.050 49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Waseca&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 98.450 50&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Long Prairie-Grey Eagle/Wadena-Deer Cr&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 101.526 51&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Luverne&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 102.333 52&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Marshall&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 104.105 53&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Worthington&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 106.500 54&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Windom Area Eagles&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 108.100 55&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Redwood Valley&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 108.929

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:52 am

Someone simply put this best to me in a recent email: If you get a D- in a class full of Rhodes Scholars where the curve was set accordingly, you might still have been a decent student. Similarly, if you go 4-16-1 against the 8th best schedule of 126 teams in the state, you might be an average team in general - but also an above average Class A team...

Artificial Ice · Post by **Artificial Ice** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:24 pm

ghs - has Simley played any of the top 10 ranked teams in Class A? If so, how did they do? (I know Simley has been struggling with injuries all year and haven't had their full team in tact).

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:26 pm

Zoe - What is the matter with you? How can you possibly not think this team should be ranked??? Yes, ok winning only 19% of your games is not tremendous. Sure, 4-17-1 isnt a great record. Yes giving up twice as many goals as you score isnt usually a trait of a ranked team. But you really have to toss that aside and instead evaluate based on..um...errr..Sorry, guess I am not sure what else you evaluate on. Your wasting your breath here Zoe. Most people would likely agree a team with a less than stellar record could be ranked out of deference to they play a great schedule. I am even in the camp who believes a team a game or 2 below .500 could be considered had they played a SSP like (or as in this example) schedule. But then you see threads like this and you laugh yourself silly. This whole thread is so unbelievably outlandish, you almost think people are pulling your leg. Its not until you see all the posts about schedule strength and other stats that you realize they truly do believe that a team that has won 19% of their games should be ranked. But I am guessing you were perhaps a tad surprised that the source isnt a parent (let alone that its their coach)!!! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeygal</A> at: 1/26/06 12:30 pm

hockeyhead · Post by **hockeyhead** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:20 pm

I have to say... Many of the out state class "A" teams end up with above 500 records and really don't play anyone. The metro teams that play mostly an AA schedule and pay the price by losing more than they win don't deserve to be ranked lower. Take teams like Blaine into account... They are 9-11-1 and they just beat Coon Rapids 18-3-1 by a score of 2-1... They are ranked 35th in state according to Krach rankings. They are the best team below 500 in the state! The only reason they are below 500 is they played in the Kapoisa (beat SSP) and they play in a tough conference (much like Simley)... Record has something to do with ranking, but not everything. Wayzata has 7 loses and are still ranked in the top 10, why, because.... they are good and deserve to be ranked very high... Hockeyhead

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Top 10 A vs Top 10 AA

Top 10 A vs Top 10 AA

A v. AA

Re: A v. AA

Re: A v. AA

Re: A v. AA

Re: A v. AA

Single A Rankings

Re: A v. AA

Re: A v. AA

Re: Single A Rankings

Single A Rankings

Re: Single A Rankings

Re: Single A Rankings

Re: Single A Rankings

Henrey sible girls studs

Re: Henrey sible girls studs

Re: Single A Rankings

Re: Single A Rankings

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Re: schedule

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