coop teams

mama05 · Post by **mama05** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:53 am

I'm am wondering peoples feelings on coop teams. Our coop is likely to change next year--again. There will be 2 seniors who will be switching teams for the 3rd time in there high school careers. One of these girls is a team captain now as a junior. It has become the feeling of our district that they need to reassess on an annual basis where our small school will fit in with the numbers. Prior to the 2002-03 school year our coop remained unchanged.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:32 pm

the Grand Rapids/Greenway co-op is working very well.

GivinYaTheBusiness · Post by **GivinYaTheBusiness** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:02 pm

I agree with the GR/G coop being a great thing. I look back on the old days, neither team having a shot. Now you look and they are top contenders. Great to see.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:28 pm

GYTB...If you have any updates with tonight game with another coop (Denfeld/Central), post them!

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:43 pm

Coop teams are always a big topic in the off-season, and it could become real hot again soon after this season ends. I think I'll wait a while and pick up on this after the state tournament.

Wayupnorth7 · Post by **Wayupnorth7** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:27 am

Rumor is that Roseau/Warroad might coop next year. What would that be like?

dasherdude · Post by **dasherdude** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:42 pm

Aren't Roseau and Warroad arch-enemies? Wouldn't that take some of the fun out of it?

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:51 pm

Wouldn't that push them to AA status? Also, I hope they don't co-op as I have games scheudled with both of them back-to-back up North! I'm not likely to believ ethat they'd scheudle these and then co-op, plus, didn't both have strong U14's recently???

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:53 pm

I think both schools are right around 300. That puts combined enrollment around 600, easily still a Class A team. you would need schools of more than 500 to coop to push them up to AA

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Good call.

GivinYaTheBusiness · Post by **GivinYaTheBusiness** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Aren't Roseau and Warroad arch-enemies? Wouldn't that take some of the fun out of it? <hr></blockquote> Although the Greenway team lacked, you can't get a better rivalry than Rapids and Greenway and look how everything has turned out there.

Artificial Ice · Post by **Artificial Ice** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:21 pm

This rumor came up last year, too. I don't think the girls rivalry is quite as intense as the boys rivalry. I'm under the understanding that both programs have fair numbers. Would it be a money issue?

gainazone · Post by **gainazone** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:34 pm

Warroad's number's are going way down. And the talent level is going right down with it. Warroad is pushing for it. Roseau wants nothing to do with it. Roseau's numbers are going up. Two 10U teams. Good numbers at 12U and 14U. From the sound of it Warroad can't handle not being at the top of the section so they are looking for a way to stay competitive a legitimate way.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:50 pm

This comment is not directly about Warroad/Roseau... I think that more teams should consider a co-op, especially when they are destroying youth hockey to field HS V teams. JV's do the same sort of thing, and I hate to have to pull 7th, 8th, & even 9th's to HS to make teams viable, but some coaches have to do this to keep a HS team going...

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:06 am

First, I'm not sure that Warroad should be considering a coop, unless they have less than 10 high school age girls playing hockey. If I'm not mistaken, the Warroad U14 team won the state tournament last year. I think that perhaps they should be at least competitive for the next few years without a coop. Second, thanks ghs for mentioning the effect of coops, positive and negative, on the youth teams and development of the young players. I'm aware of the reason that this subject was brought up in this forum, and as I said before I'm looking forward to fully addressing the situation after the tournament. But for now, I will say that if the coop in question is split, there will be one less U14 team in the state next year, and almost surely some 7th graders leaving the U12 as well. As the U12A coach told me a few weeks ago, none of those girls are ready for high school hockey.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:52 am

We need less U12/U14 JV/V HS teams and more U12/U14 U12/U14 teams if that makes any sense... That's my only point. I had the honor of coaching one U12/U14 HS V team and that was amazingly difficult for the kids to do, as well as others in the community to understand. And that team was one of the best U12/U14 HS teams you could put on the ice talent wise (more than a couple Lake Placid kids on that squad)...

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:02 am

It might be premature, but I'm pretty certain of the Rochester coops situation, at least for now. The Big 9 (and I'm pretty sure its at this level and not MSHSL) is apparently taking the position that they don't want to see two AA schools cooping. Therefore, there will be 3 Rochester teams next year; Mayo, Century and a JM/Lourdes coop. There won't be a U14 youth hockey team, either, since Lourdes could return 4 skaters, JM 5 skaters and Century 6 skaters and one goalie (these numbers could drop by 1 or 2). I apologize for bringing up an issue thats been beat into everyones head lately, but I'm compelled to bring up a point. While Open Enrollment allows for top players to play where they want and pool resources enough to create powerhouse teams, the coop decision is creating the exact opposite situation. The JM/Century team that went 8-18 this year and losing the bulk of its significant players to graduation has the remainders split to create two smaller teams with little hope of attaining even the same amount of success next year. Not only that, but the younger Rochester girls (8th graders even!) won't have the choice to play girls youth hockey. Worst case scenario, JM or Century can' get enough girls to put a team on the ice. The powers that be would apparently rather see some girls not play at all rather than allow two AA schools to coop. I know, OE and coops are apples and oranges, but it still feels unfair. As for the reasoning behind scrapping the coop, the two AA schools combining is the foremost presentable reason. However, it could also be that other Big 9 schools see a Rochester coop team go undefeated in conference for two years and ask why such a successful team needs to coop? Its understandable that such a situation will attract criticism. Here's a better question, though; which Rochester team is going to be least effected by a coop split? Answer; the team thats undefeated in conference for two years, Mayo. Without the Lourdes girls, they'll still retain 5 of their top 6 forwards, 3 of 4 D and both goalies. Besides that, of the upcoming U14 girls, the 3 or 4 best players (3 MN selects last year) are headed for Mayo. Given the situation, I have to think that splitting JM and Century is the wrong thing to do. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyDAD</A> at: 3/14/06 6:40 am

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:14 pm

I don't buy the "multiple AA" co-op talk/stuff as legit rationale. Mpls & St. Paul have at least 7+ AA HS's together. Secondly, the two seniors that are getting moved for a 2nd/3rd time need to be allowed/grandfaterhed with their existing teammates. However, I don't know what MSHSL rules would allow for this, if any... If you think about it, it's pretty amazing that Rochester can put two teams on the ice to Mpls & St. Paul's 1 - but then again they are using the private school kids too and Mpls/St. Paul aren't using privates in their co-ops obvioulsy. Keep in mind that the MSHSL doesn't care about winning or being competitive, only about participation. What gets missed is the decimation that occurs at the lowest/youth levels when HS teams aren't co-oped that should be. Youth kids will always be moving to HS prematurely (both from an emotional but also athletic and age alone standpoint). Else, what happens is a coach with their back against the wall will bring new inexperienced kids in to try to play at the V level, and that's not safe. This may appear as growing the sport, but it's actually likely killing it. As guess what the best kids do at school A that has to create players to make a team viable? They transfer. This is a problem to say the least... I'd need more info. before I could make any other suggetions... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/13/06 1:17 pm

dasherdude · Post by **dasherdude** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:42 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Youth kids will always be moving to HS prematurely <hr></blockquote> Unfortunatley, too many assocaitions don't have another team beyond U12. It's tough when your feeder team is U12...

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:47 am

You're telling me! Class A/small school programs face this reality until they can build up the numbers to sustain a U14. I believe we need to allow youth programs and HS's to field "U19/JV" teams after U12's for this reason and let them all play against each other. This is being discussed in another thread, but it seems what is best for the crossover issues we have at the intersection of 7th & 8th grade and HS U12/U14 & JV/V teams. This would allow for kids to chose to stay in their youth program with less shock of coming to a HS program emotionaly (and athletically?) prematurely while getting the EXACT same JV "JV/U19" game experience that they would at the HS JV level.

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:50 pm

I've edited down this lengthy article from the Rochester Post Bulletin some; sorry, its still pretty lengthy: Since girls hockey became a varsity sport in the 1995-96 season, Rochester has fielded two teams. Next winter, there may be more than two or there may be less than two, but it appears the status quo is out of the question. "Any way you go," Mayo High School Activities Director Jeff Whitney said, "because of a lack of numbers, somebody is going to be affected adversely." Activities directors at Rochester's four high schools have been informed by other Big Nine ADs that the conference will no longer accept teams that are co-ops between two Class AA schools. The Big Nine's other schools in past years had given the Rochester schools a letter stating that their co-op agreements were acceptable. Those letters were forwarded to the Minnesota State High School League, which prefers to let conferences police themselves in situations like this, but the rest of the Big Nine schools refused to issue that letter this year. So while most ADs are in the process of setting schedules for next season, Rochester's four ADs are trying to figure out which schools will have teams. According to projections produced by Rochester's four high school activities directors and the Rochester Youth Hockey Association, Mayo will have enough girls to field its own team for the near future. John Marshall and Century, however, will likely have to use seventh-graders and eighth-graders on varsity teams in order to sustain their programs. That prospect presents issues for parents and players. A committee comprising the city's four high school ADs, high school principals, and coaches from the RYHA has come up with five options. They have to have one decided upon by next month, Kuisle and Whitney said, because scheduling for next school year needs to be completed. "We need to make a decision soon," Kuisle said. "We have non-conference teams wanting to schedule games and the same for other Big Nine schools ... they could lose two-to-four games a year." The five options are: • Formulate three teams (two co-ops): In this scenario, which seems the most logical, Mayo would have its own team, John Marshall would co-op with Lourdes, and Century would have players from Dover-Eyota (one or two per season) on its team. This proposal keeps the Lourdes girls involved, but would rely upon seventh- and eighth-graders to play on the varsity. Another downside: Century's projected participation numbers are marginal. • Formulate two teams: The Mayo/Lourdes co-op would continue. JM would have a team or Century would; one of the two would not. Rochester School District policy requires students to sit out of activities for one calendar year if they transfer within the district. That policy will not be changed, Whitney and Kuisle said, so if JM had a team, Century players would not be allowed to transfer to JM and play immediately. • Formulate one team: Mayo/Lourdes would continue to play in the Big Nine. Neither JM nor Century would have a team. This would allow two seniors from Lourdes to finish their careers with the Mayo team, but neither JM nor Century athletes would be able to play because neither school would have enough players to field its own team. • Formulate two teams with Mayo on its own and either JM or Century in co-op deals with Lourdes and Dover-Eyota. • Play independent schedules: Mayo/Lourdes could stay in the Big Nine Conference, but a JM/Century co-op would play an independent schedule and not have an opportunity to win a conference title. Whitney said a change will happen in the structure of the city's girls hockey teams. "Some people might think, because we've done it this way for so long, that if we just stand still and argue, things won't change," Whitney said. "The reality is we may have to make a decision that may not be a good one for any number of kids." Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyDAD</A> at: 4/7/06 6:55 pm

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:24 pm

There was a sizeable amount of sidebar information with the above Post Bulletin article. PROJECTED PARTICIPATION The following is a list of projected participation levels in high school girls hockey for each of Rochester’s four high schools. Two figures are listed for each school, for each year. The first represents the total projected number of participants in grades 9-12. The second represents the total projected number of participants in grades 7-12. School.......... -06 -07 -08 -09 -10 -11 Century (9-12) .11 11 10 10 10 9 Century (7-12) .17 15 14 15 13 11 JM (9-12). . . . .10 7 12 11 12 15 JM (7-12) .. . . .17 15 17 18 17 16 Mayo (9-12).....15 19 18 22 25 27 Mayo (7-12) ... .26 33 32 35 32 27 Lourdes (9-12) . .6 6 4 4 6 7 Lourdes (7-12) . .7 8 9 9 8 7 ENROLLMENTS (Grades 10-12) Century . . . . . . . . . . . . .1,411 Mayo . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1,338 John Marshall . . . . . . . . .1,216 FACTS • Mayo/Lourdes is 40-4-2 in the Big Nine the last three seasons, winning two championships. Previously, Mayo had won one conference title (1999-2000). JM was 14-2 in the Big Nine in 2002-03 but Owatonna won the conference title.. • In 1996-97 there were 86 girls hockey teams in the state. This past year there were 119. • Of the 63 Class AA teams in 2005-06, 26 of them were coops, including one consisting of Duluth Denfeld & Central, one of hockey powers Greenway, Grand Rapids plus Nashwauk-Keewatin, one of eight St. Paul schools and one of six Minneapolis schools. If you want the link, here's the whole <a href="http://news.postbulletin.com/newsmanage ... oncurrent=" target="top">article</a> and here's the entire <a href="http://www.postbulletin.com/pdf/2006/Gi ... _facts.pdf" target="top">sidebar information.</a>

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:03 am

Its probably not earth-shattering news north of Rochester, but the JM-Century co-op split is big down here. The local TV news made it a feature news story last night, including interviews with affected girls from JM & Century. There was also a letter to the editor of the Roch Post-Bulletin, which I'll condense: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I am puzzled as to why the athletic directors of the Big 9 are changing the co-op for Rochester girls hockey. There were only 14 girls on the U14 team this season, one was 12, only 3 were 14. That leaves 10 girls who should be given the opportunity to play youth hockey again. My daughter is on of those 14's at Mayo. The numbers just are not there for Century and JM to have separate programs, even if Lourdes and Dover-Eyota are included. How does this improve girls hockey in the Big 9? Whose interests are being looked after? Do the AD's of the Big 9 plan to explain their rule change? This is a chance to "stick it" to Rochester without any consideration as to why and for whom girls hockey exists in the Big 9.<hr></blockquote> I put the questions he asks in bold print, because I feel that these questions and the answers to them are at the crux of this issue. BTW, I don't know for sure, but it would seem that the option with the most support right now is to continue the current co-op situation with the JM/Century team being removed from the Big 9 and becoming an independant program. (One of the girls said that on TV, too.)

SEMetro · Post by **SEMetro** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:51 am

Did the JM/Century team field V/JV and U14? Also, doesn't the MSHSL have to approve any of these coops?

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:13 am

JM/Century rostered 22 on the HS team (8 graduating seniors), Mayo/Lourdes rostered 19 (2 seniors). There was no JV for either, though a few times they made a JV team out of both teams, comprised of the girls who played little varsity time. (6 skaters from Mayo/Lourdes, a few more than that from JM/C, even some 2nd line girls who played sparingly.) There is only one U14 team from all of Rochester. All 4 high schools are represented on the U14.

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