Eden Prairie

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

madjagfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Eden Prairie

Post by madjagfan » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:41 pm

Looking at the brackets set up by GHS it certainly appears that EP, if they do win it all, will have earned it by playing all the best teams early on. <p></p><i></i>

Bobby The Tina Slayer Orr
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:32 pm

Recruits

Post by Bobby The Tina Slayer Orr » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:35 am

E.P. better start their recruiting process ASAP.<br>They have better beef up their team for next year because Edina came within a goal. That's not exceptible. LOL!!!!!<br>I wonder how the girls coming from the youth program like having to compete for varsity spots with the entire metro area.<br>Word on the street is they have already got a comittment from some girl on the north side of town.<br>Blaine or Brooklyn Park I think.<br>A big scoring senior.<br>Anyone else heard of this? <p></p><i></i>

OnFrozenPond
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:48 am

Re: Recruits

Post by OnFrozenPond » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:16 am

Rumor is that many as 5 girls are possibly coming in. I have heard three mentioned, one each from Chaska, Bloomington and Brooklyn Park.<br><br>Two years ago, EP was 100% homegrown. Last year they had 1 outside player. This year 4. Next year it looks like 7 - 9. It would be a shame to have approximately 50% of your varsity team be products of open enrollment.<br><br>If it is true, there is not a lot of room for Youth or JV players since they only have 3 seniors on the team.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

hockeyhead
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:23 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by hockeyhead » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:24 am

I've seen this before... Every year the rumors fly... Everyone needs to relax... Saying you'd like to play somewhere and actually tranfering and playing or two different things. <br><br>Also, news to me... EP has two non EP players this year, not 4... My bet is next year they will have two not seven. Those two are currently on their team... Are there players not from EP other than the two BK girls? <br><br>Also, Edina is a good team... EP playing a one goal game with them is a true sign that Edina is legit... Edina's youth program is solid too. As long as they retain most of their girls they will be a top 5 team next year and the years to come!<br><br><br>Hockeyhead <p></p><i></i>

xk1
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:24 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by xk1 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:25 am

I'm not sure there are 5 transfers from those teams that could make the EP varsity. <p></p><i></i>

OnFrozenPond
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:48 am

Re: Recruits

Post by OnFrozenPond » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:29 am

Hockeyhead,<br><br>This year it is 3 girls not 4 my mistake. Two Kennedy, one Chaska area. And you are correct there is a lot of conversation that NEVER happens.<br><br>On the flip side, EP has lost girls such as Drazen and Windhorst to other schools. <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:41 am

EP has lost as much as they've gained - likely a wash over the years.<br><br>Good programs will continue to attrract top talent.<br><br>I've heard my share of rumors too. They will likely have some new players next year, but one of the best they get will be from within - Lacomb, a D, from their PW A team I believe.<br><br>I won't be surprised to see them get transfers next year. <p></p><i></i>

hubbaa
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:52 am

Re: Recruits

Post by hubbaa » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:53 am

interesting why so many girls transfer. seems the boys don't get nearly as many transferring. <p></p><i></i>

madjagfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Recruits

Post by madjagfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:01 am

It was not recruiting on EP's part that brought the two Kennedy girls to EP, it was a screw up on the part of Kennedy's Administration--Kennedy may have been going to the Tourney this year if the administration had not caused so much turmoil in the program--They would have had Stoa & Feste, (at EP), Ludwigson (who stayed), Westberg (AHA winner and going to state) in goal, an excellent D in Jonassen (Trsf to Jefferson), and a very good supporting cast to go along with them. <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:01 am

hubbaa - in general - Transfers are atributable to game infancy I believe. We're advanced, but still not where the boys are at. I think that Open Enrolment may have hurt the growth/stability of the girls' game in its early years. Boys hockey didn't have to deal with this aspect back in the day... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 2/16/06 11:02 am<br></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:19 am

BK - yes. I reevaluate the transition there each year and I thought this would be their year had it stayed together, but at least a few of those kids will potentially get to state this year - granted w/other teams...<br><br>They had a great core of players and don't think that the strength of the U12A in Bloomington back in 2001-2 didn't have anything to do with why certain coaches wanted to take over a BK HS team that wasn't exactly the best in the state at the time! Coaches should do their homework before they take on a program obviously, and there was plenty of potential to be seen in that Bloomington group...<br><br>It's an interesting thought when you look at the core of the BK team before some changes a few years back:<br><br>At the end of 03-04 heading into 04-05 all those players were involved:<br><br>Feste - F NDP Lake Placid (EP - 50+pts)<br>Jacka - D/F NDP Phase 2 (Eagan - 30 pts, team leading goal scorer)<br>Joanasson - D NDP Lake Placid (Jefferson - 12pts - top D)<br>Ludwigson - D/F NDP Lake Placid (BK - 40pts including an AMAZING 32 of 59 total goals - 55% - for the team on the season)<br>Stoa - F NDP Lake Placid (EP - 50+ pts)<br>Westberg - G NDP Phase 1 (AHA - 1.82 GAA)<br><br>Also, there were a few other solid players too that would be a great addition to any program... People will label these players "supporting cast" but they were a notch above that in my biased opinion...<br><br>But, things change...<br><br>The most interesting part is what "might have been!"<br><br>There wasn't much patience with the building process that had to happen with 15 8th & 9th graders in 2003-4 that came off a top U12A team... I'll be seeing this in my current program all over again these next two years, same situaiton, different city...<br><br>My guess is that the core of the BK team listed above w/its supporting cast would have been able to compete with anyone in the state this past year... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 2/17/06 10:06 am<br></i>

madjagfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by madjagfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:33 am

That's right I forgot about Jacka--And did not mean to label them them as "supporting" however given that group I believe all they would have needed was a "supporting" cast--anyway you are correct--things change, but this idea of coaches "recruiting" is a bunch of bunk IMO. <br>To Bobby's point about girls wanting to compete with girls all across the metro--no they do not and I am sure if I was one of the girls (or parents of one of the girls) that did not make varsity because of the transfers I would naturaly be very upset. <br>From the coaches perspective I am sure he gets no particular enjoyment out of taking a spot away from a girl that has put her time into the program either--<br><br>Heard a rumor last night at the game that the MSHSL was going to try again to limit\stop transfers for athletics--i.e. you could transfer for classwork but your athletic years would be spent at your originol school--rumor was that this would be for anyone after ninth grade and only if you physically moved could you fully transfer. <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... djagfan</A> at: 2/16/06 2:09 pm<br></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:39 am

I should mention that I support the theory of the idea of allowing academic transfers but kids playing in their home geographic area.<br><br>What would happen with Private School kids though?<br><br>In some specific cases, this setup would have resulted in more stable growth of the game I believe... but may it have backfired too???<br><br>One thing to consider though is how important athletics are to these kids and their futures. Is it fair to limit their ability to seek out like minded student-athletes who play with a purpose vs. just to pass time.<br><br>One thing I fear if the MSHSL passes the "rumored" rule discussed above is that this will give rise to year round AAA hockey and that the MSHSL HS game could become 2nd tier to this... For this reason, this is a very delicate topic...<br><br>It could be that they pass this rule, and then Privates & AAA non-MSHSL HS teams play together in a MWEHL setting and the MSHSL becomes what the HS game is for some other sports - the "off-season" vs. the "real" AAA season. Some argue that Soccer & Gymnastics are already this way??? <p></p><i></i>

OnFrozenPond
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:48 am

Re: Recruits

Post by OnFrozenPond » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:47 am

MadJagFan,<br><br>I agree. I don't necessarily attribute this to recruiting by the coaches. I do think the transfers will continue in the short-term at least. I also think it will send some EP players to other schools, U14, U19 or other activities.<br><br>I look at Edina as a positive model. While they do not have any HS State Titles yet. They have built their program from the Mites up. They field multiple teams at every youth level and their U12 and U14 teams continually make it to state. I think they lose players to privates, but that type of foundation will pay dividends down the line. <p></p><i></i>

xk1
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:24 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by xk1 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:57 am

The rumored transfer rule is no solution. Wouldn't you find it just as bad to be displaced from your HS team by a kid that didn't even go to your HS? <br>The more likely scenario is that you sit out a year for any transfer, that is, open enrollment.<br>In either case I bet you would just see more kids pull the guardianship transfer, physically move or go to a private school. I already have a problem with transfer rules applying to privates, the reason you send your kid to a private school has to do with a lot more than hockey and since you are paying for it, you are entititled to all the school has to offer. <p></p><i></i>

hubbaa
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:52 am

Re: Recruits

Post by hubbaa » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:00 pm

ghs,<br><br>i wish i could agree, but if we look at other high school sports girls far out number boys in transfers... <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:00 pm

XK1 - Right - this is the dialoge that needs to be had though.<br><br>The next step to curb transfers will be an interesting one, and its impact could be far greater than what meets the eye in some respects.<br><br>It could give rise to non-community based year-round AAA hockey becoming more prevalent. And, if this did happen I'm not sure that's what's best for Hockey in general... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 2/16/06 12:13 pm<br></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:03 pm

hubbaa, across all sports - I got you now - I was just thinking Hockey...<br><br>Hmm...<br><br>There are aspects of athletics that I've found to differ somewhat based on gender, and it may be that some of these dynamics play a role in increased transfers as well??? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 2/16/06 12:03 pm<br></i>

madjagfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by madjagfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:57 pm

OFP--If someone were to copy a program there is no question Edina's would be the one to copy--I think they have something like 10 or 11 girls teams not counting the JV and Varsity. I do not know the number of transfers out of Edina but they could probably field another (very good) team if they all stayed--looking around at other communities I wonder how many have half that number?<br>I know the two Bloomington schools combined do not have half that number of youth teams. <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:32 pm

If the two Bloomington schools combined, they would have the ideal foundation for a Girls program. More areas need to consider this in fact. Bloomington, for example, wouldn't have the Edina, Park of CG, etc. like #'s, but they would have a stable foundation to build on that wouldn't force U12's to play HS to keep teams viable (both JV & V) etc.<br><br>Co-oping is not failure folks. It might just be what's best for the stability and growth of the game. The "if you build it" days are over @ the HS level I believe. You can't just start HS programs from scratch without youth numbers to support them.<br><br>Similarly, we may be better served to at times co-op at the HS level and grow the unified based before then splitting again in the future when participation numbers warrant such action.<br><br>Because there are conflicting goals we aren't seeing considerations besides participation concerns, and participation being that of U12 kids at the HS level to maintain a V HS program is still participation in the eyes of certain entities. Likely this isn't productive for the long term considerations of building a solid base, and this results in continuing a vicious trend of prematurely moving youth eligible kids to the HS level... <p></p><i></i>

xk1
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:24 pm

Re: Recruits

Post by xk1 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:40 pm

When Bloomington was told to break the coop many years ago there was no Kennedy girls program. I think a criteria for breaking up a coop needs to be the establishment of a feeder program, and some time for the kids to age. Like many schools in those days you could build a team through HS kids but eventually the lack of a youth program produced a large hole in player population. I suspect you will find people caught in these "holes" are the ones most likely to transfer.<br> <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Recruits

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:45 pm

Amen. <p></p><i></i>

Bobby The Tina Slayer Orr
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:32 pm

Power

Post by Bobby The Tina Slayer Orr » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:08 pm

It's nice to have the power to jolted the state with a few strokes of the keys.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
Posts: 6132
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:33 pm
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Contact:

Re: Power

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:26 pm

It most certainly is isn't it! <p></p><i></i>

IGiveBlood
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:01 am

Re: building the base

Post by IGiveBlood » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:29 pm

One of the reasons Edina has a large girls program has to with the fact that they did not have a girls JV team for the first 5 years that they had a girls varsity team. When the varsity team was proposed the group prompting it reached an agreement with the athletic department to not request a JV team for 5 years. This was actually done for financial reasons and although not intended to help develop the youth base it had that exact benefit. By the time a JV was added Edina had 3 U15 teams so adding the JV only decreased their U15 teams to 2. There was no need to rob the youth teams to supplement numbers for the varsity which in turn allowed the youth teams to continue to develop. They now have the pyramid in place that will sustain a thriving program for a long time. <p></p><i></i>

Post Reply