Never too early to start the thread unfortunately...
I have some in my community that hope to see my program on this list this year, but don't we all!
From last year:
ghshockeyfan wrote:I believe this is now final - although there may be some outstate coaching changes that I have missed... I don't know when Eveleth changed hands (sometime in the last couple years), and there may be others too...
In alphabetical order (order of opening in ())
1 Benilde (9) - Dave Herbst
2 Bloomington Jefferson (33) - Dave Irvin & Aaron Schram
3 Buffalo (32) - Ray Dahlof
4 Burnsville (3) - Bruce Anderson
5 Chisago Lakes/Pine City (34?) - Jason Mahlen
6 Dodge County Wildcats (12) - Jeremy Gunderson
7 East Range Lady Knights (??) - Stan Skelton (Babbitt-Embarrass/Tower-Soudan/Ely)
8 Eastview (10) - Herb Harvey
9 Fairmont (20) - Darin Hoefker
10 Fergus Falls (16) - Jim Conrad
11 Henry Sibley (7) - Dave Langevin
12 Holy Family/Waconia (21) - Corey Martin (JV only 1st year, split from Mound-Westonka)
13 International Falls (28.) - Bruce Elson
14 Lakeville South (17) - Perry Wilkinson
15 Little Falls (??) - Brad Hubred
16 Mankato East (1) - Nate Fuller
17 Moose Lake (30) - Joe Mohelsky
18 Mounds View (4) - Tom Foley
19 North Metro Stars (22) - Jack Gravel (Park Center/Osseo/Tri-City)
20 Park (23) - Darren Reiter
21 Princeton (5) - Steve Bratulich
22 Prior Lake (15) - Nick Leach
23 Red Wing (19) - Scott Haley
24 Redwood Valley (13) - Blair Wassengeso
25 Robbinsdale Cooper (18.) - Chris Johnson
26 Rochester Century (26) - Dan Maidl (split from Century/JM)
27 Rochester John Marshall (27) - Steve Russell (split from Century/JM)
28 Rogers (29) - Dave Hamlin
29 Rosemount (8.) - Tracy Engstrom
30 Roseville (14) - Vic Brodt
31 St. Louis Park (2) - Corey Clarks
32 St. Paul "Saints" (??) - Jeff Hauer (Concordia Academy/St. Agnes/St. Bernards/St. Croix Lutheran)
33 St. Peter/Le Sueur-Henderson (31) - Sarah Moe
34 Thief River Falls (24) - Corey Poole
35 Totino-Grace (11) - Sanya Sandahl
36 Warroad (6) - Derrick Comstock & David Marvin
If this is right 32 of 124 jobs opened this year (25.8%). I don't count the co-op splits/combines & "New Programs". I only count/post verified (MSHSL/District/Team Website/Newspaper posting) positions...
Past years to this year comparison:
2006 = 32 of 124 jobs opened this year (25.8%)
2005 = 25 of 122 jobs opened this year (20.5%).
2004 = 21 of 122 jobs opened this year (17.2%).
Rocketwrister wrote:You mean to tell me people are hoping your gone GHS? Come on...
I hear that's when you really know that you're truly a coach! And, I don't back down to people when I KNOW what's right/best... which, doesn't always make you the most well liked I guess! Coaching is NOT for those that care about that though!
Snuggy will be leaving the Chaska boys coaching job at year's end. If Steve Olinger does not go after that job, I would bet that Andy Brink, the girls coach at chaska might pursue the job. He is well liked by the Athletic Dept and has had history on boy's teams in the community's hockey association.
Looking at last year's figures of a 20-25% attrition rate, it makes it very tough on building programs and continuity of success.
ghs- last year you had an in-depth discussion with someone about business attrition rate at GE claiming that they turned the bottom 20% of their employees. He was feeding you incorrect information. GE looks only at the bottom 10% of performers. 20% of talent leaving annually at any operation is way too high and would cause major problems in a business that wants to operate successfully.
That is a dangerous level to be at and should raise concerns.
Keep up the good work and doing what you feel is right
xk1 wrote:Maybe the MSHSL needs to pass rule making the coaches sit out a year if they transfer.
Or if you really want to solve the transfer problem, make the athletes' PARENTS sit out a year after their kids open enroll - no attending any of the games or practices.
With or without moving? And do they transfer to a public or private? Why would any coach leave anyway, don't they know they could be setting a bad example? What kind of message does that send to the kids? They should just stick it out.
So Lucia leaving CC to go the Gophers was a bad example? How about Hill leaving his head coaching job at AA to be an asst. at the U? Another bad example?
hockeyfinatic wrote:So Lucia leaving CC to go the Gophers was a bad example? How about Hill leaving his head coaching job at AA to be an asst. at the U? Another bad example?
I think xk1 was just kidding. Others have said that the players who transfer are setting a bad example and should be forced to stick it out, no matter what the circumstances. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think xk1's point was that the same can be said for the coaches.
P.S. Off topic, but the former boys' coach at BSM who "transferred" to Minnetonka for a more desirable situation got beat last week by his former team, 9-2. BSM had a little extra incentive in that one.
GHS, if you get the heave-ho next year, I will recruit you to handle the PP and PK for my Girls U10 team. Our PP and PK is just not clicking the way it should. And with the crackdown by USA hockey, we need a new special teams coach for our team. Our current assistant may not appreciate getting axed, but that's life in big time hockey.
Once again GHS thanks for your words of encouragement this past summer. I really enjoyed our one time conversation regarding my situation. I hope yours works out in your best interest. What I have found is there is life after hockey. I miss the kids, I miss the rink but there is a whole lot that I don't miss. Good luck to you the rest of the season and fight for what is right.
GHS, if you get the heave-ho next year, I will recruit you to handle the PP and PK for my Girls U10 team. Our PP and PK is just not clicking the way it should. And with the crackdown by USA hockey, we need a new special teams coach for our team. Our current assistant may not appreciate getting axed, but that's life in big time hockey.
Are you kidding me? 10U is big time hockey?
I understand what GHS is going through, and unfortunate as it is, it is part of the job. If you take a head coaching varsity hockey job, you are going to run into people from time to time that think you are not doing your job correctly.
The more important question to the fact is whether or not the AD is doing his/her job of accurately evaulating you and understanding that you are doing your job and putting the players in the right situation to succeed as both hockey players and young women of the future at the same time.
When is it going to stop when people are run out of jobs that they are putting their heart and soul into to make a positive situation?
Do the parents really believe that they could make difference for these 15 girls?
If the "changeover" of coaches is going to slow-down or stop, we need to have some backing for coaches. We need to keep coaches in the small communities who are willing and able to "teach" and get through the "grim" years and come back and try and make the team better.
The coaches that stay around 5+ years should be celebrated. They are the ones that are working hard through all the particulars to make this a great sport for all the girls involved.
xwildfan wrote:GHS, if you get the heave-ho next year, I will recruit you to handle the PP and PK for my Girls U10 team. Our PP and PK is just not clicking the way it should. And with the crackdown by USA hockey, we need a new special teams coach for our team. Our current assistant may not appreciate getting axed, but that's life in big time hockey.
As long as that U10 has a good manager to buffer between the parents and coach I'm on board for that! I've often contemplated coaching a youth hockey group all the way up from the youngest levels as I hear it's something that every coach should do once.
In all sincerity, dealing with parents is a far bigger part of (HS) coaching than I ever imagined. I think many coaches would never start coaching if they knew just how important and challenging this aspect can be, although it does indeed just come with the territory of course.
Once again GHS thanks for your words of encouragement this past summer. I really enjoyed our one time conversation regarding my situation. I hope yours works out in your best interest. What I have found is there is life after hockey. I miss the kids, I miss the rink but there is a whole lot that I don't miss. Good luck to you the rest of the season and fight for what is right.
No problem & thanks for the same in support in return now. Anyone that's been through this sort of thing (as more coaches have than most imagine I believe) has to have thick skin, and I haven't yet learned to just "walk away" from confrontation when I know I'm right or have nothing to prove (hoping to get to this point eventually!) - you'd never guess this from my posting on here... In that I've been through this in a couple other coachng positions, it doesn't bother me too much, but is just an unfortunate distraction...
The sad part is that I think these situations have an adverse impact on the kids/team especially if it's happening in-season. Kids are more perceptive than we give them credit for, and they also get a lot of info. through various sources. Often though, a situation is really no secret, as is the case in my situation.
Last edited by ghshockeyfan on Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
GHS, if you get the heave-ho next year, I will recruit you to handle the PP and PK for my Girls U10 team. Our PP and PK is just not clicking the way it should. And with the crackdown by USA hockey, we need a new special teams coach for our team. Our current assistant may not appreciate getting axed, but that's life in big time hockey.
Are you kidding me? 10U is big time hockey?
I understand what GHS is going through, and unfortunate as it is, it is part of the job. If you take a head coaching varsity hockey job, you are going to run into people from time to time that think you are not doing your job correctly.
The more important question to the fact is whether or not the AD is doing his/her job of accurately evaulating you and understanding that you are doing your job and putting the players in the right situation to succeed as both hockey players and young women of the future at the same time.
When is it going to stop when people are run out of jobs that they are putting their heart and soul into to make a positive situation?
Do the parents really believe that they could make difference for these 15 girls?
If the "changeover" of coaches is going to slow-down or stop, we need to have some backing for coaches. We need to keep coaches in the small communities who are willing and able to "teach" and get through the "grim" years and come back and try and make the team better.
The coaches that stay around 5+ years should be celebrated. They are the ones that are working hard through all the particulars to make this a great sport for all the girls involved.
The part in bold is a MAJOR concern I have about how we improve the game and how HS sports in general retain top people. Little incentive exists now in HS coaching to "stay-the-course" and try to build a program long-term. Many coaches know that the first set of parents that cries to the school board about fabricated issues due to playing time or other grudges will likely get a coach removed - especially if they threaten legal action or withhold donations, etc. What is needed is a probationary period, a "tenure" like setup, but also a method by which to remove coaches that are PROVEN to be an issue in their actions in words when those things are truly bad enough to consider justifying removal. What many people often forget is that it isn't wise to make claims that you know to be false about people to accomplish an end result (i.e. removal). There are laws that protect people (coaches are people ) against such activities, but some coaches don't stand up and defend themselves (not always worth it) and so this happens too much where people get away with it.
tomASS wrote:Snuggy will be leaving the Chaska boys coaching job at year's end. If Steve Olinger does not go after that job, I would bet that Andy Brink, the girls coach at chaska might pursue the job. He is well liked by the Athletic Dept and has had history on boy's teams in the community's hockey association.
Looking at last year's figures of a 20-25% attrition rate, it makes it very tough on building programs and continuity of success.
ghs- last year you had an in-depth discussion with someone about business attrition rate at GE claiming that they turned the bottom 20% of their employees. He was feeding you incorrect information. GE looks only at the bottom 10% of performers. 20% of talent leaving annually at any operation is way too high and would cause major problems in a business that wants to operate successfully.
That is a dangerous level to be at and should raise concerns.
Keep up the good work and doing what you feel is right
I remember quite well the GE discussion. Also, the last CEO at my place of employment was a GE guy, so, I was fortunate enough to see some of that mentality in action as well...
That aside, I woudl think that a large turnover is BAD for any organization. I know that many companies are greatly concerned about the losses that they will take in coming years due to many retirements on the horizon as generations move through the employee ranks and into retirement. They may welcome the turnover from a salary standpoint (new workers cost less), but how do you put a value on the expertise lost??? That is the same thing we lose at a 25%+ rate every year in G HS Hockey - all that experience (even losing coaches with just a few years in makes a difference)...
I just got back from the human resources in my company and they told me that it's common to have 15 to 20% turnover rate at most companies in Minnesota. It's hard when you see friends leaving coaching and being forced out but it sounds like it's not much different that any other business. Parents at times can be pushy, obnoxious and will destroy a program for there own kids benifit, but in the end there concerns may be based in some truth. I found that the successful coaches have brought those parents into the program and found a way to make them useful. The coaches who ignore the concerns of parents will find the problems stacking up against them. My suggestion is put yourself in the parents shoes and look at the problem from there prospective and see if theres anything that you can do to either explain your position more clearly or address there problemfor the parents and ask them what they would do in your position.
Employee turnover may not be the thing to compare coach turnover too. I wonder what the CEO turnover rate is? For those of you that think CEO is too then pick some other high level management position. My experience has been every time you change coaches there is a 1 year setback.
The other problem here is that IMO the HS coach should be involved with the youth development, if you get a new coach every 2 years I think you loose continuity as each coach will have a different way and level of commitment.
Progress dosn't come without change. If there not happy with the direction of there program either the leadership must change the way they do things or they must change leadership.
your right about it setting teams back a year when schools make a coaching change, but thats assuming that the program is moving forward to begin with. If a program has gone stale, Girls are not going out for the team and the ones on the team are unhappy, then it's time for a change. If the numbers are up, theres interest in the program, and most players end the season feeling good with the direction they are going personally then the coach has done a good job. Most programs fall in the middle somewhere and I don't think that justifies a change but it's up to the people involved in the program.
I'm not sure coach longevity should be compared to CEOs or other C-level positions either as they are extremely transient. Average for any C-level position is 3-4 years for publicly traded companies (longer for privately held) and is based on the employment contract they sign (they are not "at will" employees). If they stay with the company it is another employment contract where they either retain their current position, move laterally or assume more responsibility. Otherwise they choose to pursue greener pastures. If their employment is terminated early they may receive a "golden parachute" or severence package based on the parameters set forth in their employment contract.
In this crazy, ever changing world we live in, I'm not sure who we can compare coaches to!?!?!?
I don't think it's a fair comparison either but looking at total company turnover is even worse. I don't think it's even worthwhile to try and figure it out but coach turnover is a problem if you want a stable program.
I agree 100%. I was fortunate enough to have the same head coach that my father had when he played. And the entire school and surrounding schools had the utmost respect for him and other coaches sought out his advice. It was so wonderful to experience that firsthand. I'm afraid my children will never experience anything close to that. So sad...
If I was going into coaching now the only way that I would do it is with a multi year contract with rollover clauses. It wouldn't matter so much what I was paid but I would want my responsabilties layed out in writing as well what I would have to do to be discharged. I know schools don't do that but when a super coach does emerge in girls hockey and makes that kind of demand it will change the way schools do business and give coaches the kind of support they need. the only problem is that it will become just like teaching then and the bad ones will be protected
Coaching is NOT for those that care about that though!