U15

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goaliedad31
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U15

Post by goaliedad31 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:23 am

I know there was some discussion about this on another thread, but now that this looks like a reality across the state, there seems to be a lot of questions about why this is being instituted, and what it will mean. I am just trying to understand so if anyone has any insight, please share.

Gotothenetman
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Re: U15

Post by Gotothenetman » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:51 am

goaliedad31 wrote:I know there was some discussion about this on another thread, but now that this looks like a reality across the state, there seems to be a lot of questions about why this is being instituted, and what it will mean. I am just trying to understand so if anyone has any insight, please share.
It is really pretty simple. It is to allow more girls who may not make their high school team as a old 9th grader or 10th grader to have a place to play. This will happen in the bigger girls high school programs. It will also assist the smaller programs who may have enough upper classmen to fill their high school team but short girls to field a u14 team. This will help keep young 7th and 8th grade girls who are not ready from having to move to the high school.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:32 am

Most 7th graders will be playing 12U and are completely unaffected by this change. 15U will be mostly 8, 9 and 10.

I don't see anything on MNH website that would answer your questions. In fact, I didn't spend hours looking, but I didn't even see anything announcing the change.

Mavs
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Re: U15

Post by Mavs » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:38 am

Gotothenetman wrote:
goaliedad31 wrote:I know there was some discussion about this on another thread, but now that this looks like a reality across the state, there seems to be a lot of questions about why this is being instituted, and what it will mean. I am just trying to understand so if anyone has any insight, please share.
It is really pretty simple. It is to allow more girls who may not make their high school team as a old 9th grader or 10th grader to have a place to play. This will happen in the bigger girls high school programs. It will also assist the smaller programs who may have enough upper classmen to fill their high school team but short girls to field a u14 team. This will help keep young 7th and 8th grade girls who are not ready from having to move to the high school.
It could go a couple of different ways and may take a year or two for high school coaches to figure it out. It could play out just like you say or it could do the exact opposite with high school coaches wanting to take more young kids (8th graders) knowing the 10th graders have a place to play.

One issue for high school coaches is taking a 10th grader on JV (even though 8th graders are much better) and then the following year take the 8th graders (now 9th graders) and cutting the 10th grader (now 11th grader). Some coaches would prefer to not tease said 10th grader with the hopes of playing high school, only to cut them the following year when they "know" its coming the year before.

It may affect small and big programs differently.

It will also likely hurt the U19 programs? Not many of them.

I think year one may be all over the map and then more and more coaches will talk and find out what worked and what didn't.

observer
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Post by observer » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:34 pm

Still can't figure out who advanced this discussion and pushed for passage. Usually that person thinks it will work for them. Set varsity players aside for a moment. 8th and 9th is U14. 10th and 11th is JV. What 6 people is this for?

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:17 pm

observer wrote:Still can't figure out who advanced this discussion and pushed for passage. Usually that person thinks it will work for them. Set varsity players aside for a moment. 8th and 9th is U14. 10th and 11th is JV. What 6 people is this for?
The only associations that will benefit from this in the form of pretty good players will be the Edina's and Minnetonka's of the world and they might not even get any. Smaller associations may benefit from having a few more bodies to round out one team or help fill in a B team.

It may end up having no impact at all. Kids that get cut as Sophomores often want to quit vs just playing for fun because playing for fun is more than likely not with their buddies their age. 10th graders wanting to play for a team dominate by 8th graders might not sound very attractive.

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:42 pm

Mavs wrote: The only associations that will benefit from this in the form of pretty good players will be the Edina's and Minnetonka's of the world and they might not even get any. Smaller associations may benefit from having a few more bodies to round out one team or help fill in a B team.

It may end up having no impact at all. Kids that get cut as Sophomores often want to quit vs just playing for fun because playing for fun is more than likely not with their buddies their age. 10th graders wanting to play for a team dominate by 8th graders might not sound very attractive.
I fail to see any impact on Edina. Last year there were no players cut that could or would have gone back to play U15. They also hold to the "policy" that no 9th graders play on JV unless absolutely needed to fill out the squad. Unless it changes the thinking of the varsity coaches, this falls under the category of "solution without a problem." Some small school kids could benefit if a 10th grader is not ready for varsity, and there are not enough girls to field a JV, then they have a place to play other than u19.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:16 pm

Bluewhitefan wrote:
Mavs wrote: The only associations that will benefit from this in the form of pretty good players will be the Edina's and Minnetonka's of the world and they might not even get any. Smaller associations may benefit from having a few more bodies to round out one team or help fill in a B team.

It may end up having no impact at all. Kids that get cut as Sophomores often want to quit vs just playing for fun because playing for fun is more than likely not with their buddies their age. 10th graders wanting to play for a team dominate by 8th graders might not sound very attractive.
I fail to see any impact on Edina. Last year there were no players cut that could or would have gone back to play U15. They also hold to the "policy" that no 9th graders play on JV unless absolutely needed to fill out the squad. Unless it changes the thinking of the varsity coaches, this falls under the category of "solution without a problem." Some small school kids could benefit if a 10th grader is not ready for varsity, and there are not enough girls to field a JV, then they have a place to play other than u19.
They don't let 9th graders play JV? Wow, that sends a lot of good players to U15, I would think they would win state every year as 99% of U15 teams won't have good 9th graders playing and the majority are first year/8th graders. Many schools have that rule for 8th graders but I didn't realize Edina had the rule for 9th graders too.

Then I don't see this rule doing anything anywhere.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:06 pm

Bluewhitefan wrote:
Mavs wrote: The only associations that will benefit from this in the form of pretty good players will be the Edina's and Minnetonka's of the world and they might not even get any. Smaller associations may benefit from having a few more bodies to round out one team or help fill in a B team.

It may end up having no impact at all. Kids that get cut as Sophomores often want to quit vs just playing for fun because playing for fun is more than likely not with their buddies their age. 10th graders wanting to play for a team dominate by 8th graders might not sound very attractive.
I fail to see any impact on Edina. Last year there were no players cut that could or would have gone back to play U15. They also hold to the "policy" that no 9th graders play on JV unless absolutely needed to fill out the squad. Unless it changes the thinking of the varsity coaches, this falls under the category of "solution without a problem." Some small school kids could benefit if a 10th grader is not ready for varsity, and there are not enough girls to field a JV, then they have a place to play other than u19.

Just to clarify: Edina doesn't allow 9th graders to play JV, but, they can play Varsity.....?

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:25 pm

nu2hockey wrote:
Bluewhitefan wrote:
Mavs wrote: The only associations that will benefit from this in the form of pretty good players will be the Edina's and Minnetonka's of the world and they might not even get any. Smaller associations may benefit from having a few more bodies to round out one team or help fill in a B team.

It may end up having no impact at all. Kids that get cut as Sophomores often want to quit vs just playing for fun because playing for fun is more than likely not with their buddies their age. 10th graders wanting to play for a team dominate by 8th graders might not sound very attractive.
I fail to see any impact on Edina. Last year there were no players cut that could or would have gone back to play U15. They also hold to the "policy" that no 9th graders play on JV unless absolutely needed to fill out the squad. Unless it changes the thinking of the varsity coaches, this falls under the category of "solution without a problem." Some small school kids could benefit if a 10th grader is not ready for varsity, and there are not enough girls to field a JV, then they have a place to play other than u19.

Just to clarify: Edina doesn't allow 9th graders to play JV, but, they can play Varsity.....?
Yes, I assume they can play varsity

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:32 am

nu2hockey wrote: Just to clarify: Edina doesn't allow 9th graders to play JV, but, they can play Varsity.....?
Yes - even 8th graders for that matter. Again, unless this drives a change in thinking by the HS staff, then there's nothing to this as far as Edina goes.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:59 am

Right, I am aware that the MSHSL allows 7-12 graders play varsity sports..I was questioning the statement that Edina doesn't have 9th graders play JV..Last year they 9th on both varsity and JV...This year might create a larger exception to the stated non-jv rule because of ............(name your reason).

With the numbers at Edina I don‘t see how it would be "absolutely necessary" to place a 9th grader on JV..l believe they are absolutely capable of earning varsity and jv spots, but, to say they would be needed to fill a roster sounds wrong .

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:04 pm

Almost every boys high school coach in the state has some rule regarding bantam eligible boys being encouraged to stay at the bantam level, unless they are projected to exceed some criterium (e.g. playing first or second line varsity). Many girls high school coaches don't have that luxury regarding 14U eligible girls; I suspect Edina does.

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:27 pm

nu2hockey wrote:Right, I am aware that the MSHSL allows 7-12 graders play varsity sports..I was questioning the statement that Edina doesn't have 9th graders play JV..Last year they 9th on both varsity and JV...This year might create a larger exception to the stated non-jv rule because of ............(name your reason).

With the numbers at Edina I don‘t see how it would be "absolutely necessary" to place a 9th grader on JV..l believe they are absolutely capable of earning varsity and jv spots, but, to say they would be needed to fill a roster sounds wrong .
I don't have the roster in front of me, so I can't say for sure, but I believe they had 4 9th graders on varsity. To my knowledge, there were none on JV, unless there happened to be a girl in 9th grade that was finished with U14 eligibility. That's why I put the word policy in quotes - because there are exceptions.

I'm not sure what sounds wrong with "absolutely necessary" to fill a roster. Obviously, there could be a year that was short, say goalies, for instance, in which case it may be necessary to pull one up to JV. Or a year that was short on numbers and they had room for a couple 9th graders on JV, but this would be rare.

The point is that the girls program has typically not taken 9th graders for it's JV team. I have no idea how to fill in the blank of your question - I'm saying it's not likely to have an impact in Edina.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:05 pm

There were 4-9 graders listed on Edina‘s varsity...1 played only 8 regular season games
She may have aged out of 14u..and 15u was not an option then.
2000 birth year kids will be 9th and 10th graders this year. Edina loses only 5 skaters off of last years varsity. They have a lot of talented players in the 15u age. It will be interesting to see how they roster varsity,jv, and 15u this year.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:57 pm

nu2hockey wrote:There were 4-9 graders listed on Edina‘s varsity...1 played only 8 regular season games
She may have aged out of 14u..and 15u was not an option then.
2000 birth year kids will be 9th and 10th graders this year. Edina loses only 5 skaters off of last years varsity. They have a lot of talented players in the 15u age. It will be interesting to see how they roster varsity,jv, and 15u this year.
Wow, they only lose 5 players? They have a lot of talent from U14 last year so it will be interesting to see how many the high school coach keeps and if they send any sophomores to U15 or cut juniors or seniors for the young kids? Positive problems. That U15 team could be loaded with players that would play varsity at most high schools.

How many from that U14 team are private school kids?

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:13 am

Mavs wrote:How many from that U14 team are private school kids?
Only one that I know for sure - to BSM. Possibly a couple more on the 14A White team.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:58 am

Which top U15 teams are likely to lose 8th graders to high school? I assume most will lost 9th graders and obviously 10th graders.

Brainerd, Roseau, Edina, Minnetonka, Forest Lake, St. Paul, Eagan, etc

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:00 am

Mavs wrote:Which top U15 teams are likely to lose 8th graders to high school? I assume most will lost 9th graders and obviously 10th graders.

Brainerd, Roseau, Edina, Minnetonka, Forest Lake, St. Paul, Eagan, etc
NE Metro will probably lose 1-2 every year because of their "affiliation" with Hill-Murray.

Mounds View could lose an 8th grader each of the next three years, based on the needs of the varsity.

Roseville will lose an 8th grader in 2016-17, though she's never played girls association hockey.

Now, Roseville isn't "top," but the other two traditionally have a strong U14/U15 team.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:39 am

Who are the teams to beat in U15?

Edina
Minnetonka
Roseau
Brainerd

then:
Wayzata
Eagan
NE Metro
Cottage Grove
Andover?
Forest Lake

anyone?

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:59 am

Mavs wrote:Who are the teams to beat in U15?

Edina
Minnetonka
Roseau
Brainerd

then:
Wayzata
Eagan
NE Metro
Cottage Grove
Andover?
Forest Lake

anyone?
I would move NE Metro into the top tier of favorites. They have already defeated Cottage Grove twice as well as Andover and Eagan. I think they are a serious state title contender.

Gotothenetman
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Post by Gotothenetman » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:11 am

jg2112 wrote:
Mavs wrote:Who are the teams to beat in U15?

Edina
Minnetonka
Roseau
Brainerd

then:
Wayzata
Eagan
NE Metro
Cottage Grove
Andover?
Forest Lake

anyone?
I would move NE Metro into the top tier of favorites. They have already defeated Cottage Grove twice as well as Andover and Eagan. I think they are a serious state title contender.
I am not sure where they might fall, but I heard there is a Hastings/Farmingon/Rosemount Co-op that was created this summer. Sounds like most of the higher end 01/02 from those teams elected to not go to there high school team and play together. I would think they may be a team near the top bu the end.

Yogi17
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Post by Yogi17 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:08 pm

Im hearing NWC might be decent.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:12 pm

I heard someone say that "a lot" of high school teams sent everyone 15 and under back to association 15u, no exceptions except except for athletes who played high school level last season. Given the 7-8-9th graders on so many rosters, this seems false or greatly exaggerated.
?

HuskiesHockey
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Post by HuskiesHockey » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:55 pm

Mavs wrote:Who are the teams to beat in U15?

Edina
Minnetonka
Roseau
Brainerd

then:
Wayzata
Eagan
NE Metro
Cottage Grove
Andover?
Forest Lake
Last edited by HuskiesHockey on Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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