Girls Hockey is Growing!

Discussion of Minnesota Girls Youth Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, karl(east)

legalbeagle05
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Girls Hockey is Growing!

Post by legalbeagle05 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:58 pm

Good news for the future of the growth of girls hockey in Minnesota:

After tryouts this past month, two Machine teams were created - Orange and Black - for the '06s. (Last year there was only Orange '06.)

Say what you will about the Made and Bernie just wanting the checkbook parents to join up, yada yada yada. But out of a huge try out, there were so many talented girls who showed up that they decided to put two solid teams together (And not everyone made the team - they turned some away, too, to try again next time. As you all already know, not everybody gets a medal at the Made.)

Really exciting outlook for the next generation of skaters and goalie girls in town.

I have a friend who knows of another club that had to create two new teams at their organization - 18 girls on each. BOOM! (This is at the 10u level so about the '05-'06 age range.) Really cool.

BluehawkHockey
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 am

Re: Girls Hockey is Growing!

Post by BluehawkHockey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:55 am

If only you knew what was really going on. Just because some summer clubs have added teams doesn't mean girls hockey is growing in Minnesota. It only means there are more parents willing to pay for their girls to play in the summer.

I would believe that the talent is getting better across the board though.

Some time ago, someone posted all the numbers of players, boys and girls, in MN. There was data going back about 8 years. The number of girls playing hockey was increasing for about the first 4 years of that data. Then the numbers started dropping. I think the last year of data was for 2014 registrations.

I'm wish parents were taking the decline of girls hockey in Minnesota seriously. I've talked to a lot of HS coaches lately. They have all said they see the numbers dropping and believe there will be more and more coops in HS girls hockey because the numbers just aren't there anymore. Of course there are some outliers, but the overall, girls numbers are dropping and dropping fairly quickly.

Minnesota Hockey is going to have to do something to try to turn this around but I don't think they really care about it.

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Re: Girls Hockey is Growing!

Post by jg2112 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:37 am

legalbeagle05 wrote:Good news for the future of the growth of girls hockey in Minnesota:

After tryouts this past month, two Machine teams were created - Orange and Black - for the '06s. (Last year there was only Orange '06.)

Say what you will about the Made and Bernie just wanting the checkbook parents to join up, yada yada yada. But out of a huge try out, there were so many talented girls who showed up that they decided to put two solid teams together (And not everyone made the team - they turned some away, too, to try again next time. As you all already know, not everybody gets a medal at the Made.)

Really exciting outlook for the next generation of skaters and goalie girls in town.

I have a friend who knows of another club that had to create two new teams at their organization - 18 girls on each. BOOM! (This is at the 10u level so about the '05-'06 age range.) Really cool.
I am glad you are excited about the future and feel this proves girls' hockey is growing.

Really though, doesn't this just constitute evidence that girls' spring/summer hockey might be growing?

Actually, could it be girls' spring/summer hockey is staying constant? In 2013, the Machine had 03 Orange and Black girls' teams. In 2014, the Machine had 04 Orange and Black girls' teams. To hear that in 2016 the Machine will have 06 Orange and Black girls' teams, well, plus ca change....

Now, there are other clubs (Crown, Rebel Elite, MCC) that are showing up and attracting more players. Undoubtedly this is a good thing for the kids and the club organizers who want to sustain a program. On the other hand, other clubs (won't name them, but look at summer tourney results) are losing steam and numbers.

And this doesn't reflect the real elephant in the room - that while there may be an increase in the number of girls playing year-round organized hockey, I don't see many associations increasing in girls' numbers. In fact, I see lots of co-ops and consolidations. The power programs invest in the girls and have great teams and numbers. The rest (including former powers like Roseville, with barely enough for one U10 and maybe not enough for 2 U12 teams this year) are scrambling to field teams at each level.

zambonidriver
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:47 am

Found on the White bear hockey web page
I am excited to announce we are growing our program starting with the U8 level and trying to improve on each level going forward. Starting with Fall Warm-ups, all girls will be grouped together and encouraged to join the girls program. We can’t grow the girls program and have successful teams without your participation, I thank you in advance for your support!

Fall Warm-Ups: There will be warm-ups for all girls levels, please watch for details and sign up!

U8: Parents please see the attached U8 Program Guide for more information. All girls can play U8 coming out of clinic or from any mite level.

U10: We will have an “A” and “B” team this year. Tryouts information will be coming. Please see the attached U10 Program Guide for more information.

U12: We will be having one “B” level team this year. I encourage all players to participate in the Fall Warm-Up this year as there will not be tryouts and the season will start fairly quickly.

U15: NEW this year, MN Hockey will be piloting a 15U level for the 2015-16 season. Please watch your email, I’m looking for ways to help improve your final youth hockey seasons and want your player’s feedback. Information regarding tryouts will follow.

As the new Girls Director, I look forward to meeting each family throughout the season and ask if you have any concerns or questions to please contact me at Girls.Director@wblhockey.com

Snap Happy
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:39 pm

Post by Snap Happy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:09 am

zambonidriver wrote:Found on the White bear hockey web page
I am excited to announce we are growing our program starting with the U8 level and trying to improve on each level going forward. Starting with Fall Warm-ups, all girls will be grouped together and encouraged to join the girls program. We can’t grow the girls program and have successful teams without your participation, I thank you in advance for your support!

Fall Warm-Ups: There will be warm-ups for all girls levels, please watch for details and sign up!

U8: Parents please see the attached U8 Program Guide for more information. All girls can play U8 coming out of clinic or from any mite level.

U10: We will have an “A” and “B” team this year. Tryouts information will be coming. Please see the attached U10 Program Guide for more information.

U12: We will be having one “B” level team this year. I encourage all players to participate in the Fall Warm-Up this year as there will not be tryouts and the season will start fairly quickly.

U15: NEW this year, MN Hockey will be piloting a 15U level for the 2015-16 season. Please watch your email, I’m looking for ways to help improve your final youth hockey seasons and want your player’s feedback. Information regarding tryouts will follow.

As the new Girls Director, I look forward to meeting each family throughout the season and ask if you have any concerns or questions to please contact me at Girls.Director@wblhockey.com
The girls director at Rosemount has done a great job too and growing our numbers. Decent numbers at the 10u level, more at the 8u and 6u. I think next year we are projected to have 3 10u teams.

nu2hockey
Posts: 642
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:19 pm

Post by nu2hockey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:50 am

Girls numbers in MN are dropping...There was an growth spurt a few years back that lasted a short time..
Non-traditional states are experiencing growth due to the sport being introduced in those areas.

Though the numbers are weaning, I do believe the skill level of todays players is vastly improving..this being a product of increased ice time during the off-season. If you take a deep look into the girl players from 97 birth year thru the 01 birth year you will see rising growth chart in a) numbers b)skills and c) off-season participation.

This growth then starts to fade in the numbers area. There is the Coon Rapids/SLP co-op,
Mounds View/Irondale future , Only 1 12u team in WBL(really?), many class A teams fail to have a JV.

Obviously, COST and TIME COMMITMENT are big deterrents to growth . I think another problem is, that hockey associations‘ reputation put a damper on new recruits.

Here's to hoping MN girls hockey doesn't fall to a Wi level where all the association girls teams are co-oped except 1. I don't believe MN with fall that far but , I hope the retraction of girls playing hockey here subsides.

BluehawkHockey
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 am

Post by BluehawkHockey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:03 pm

Hopefully some of the efforts by some associations will work and they will be able to help other associations learn how to grow girls hockey.

Minnesota Hockey has access to all the data and can certainly see what is happening but it doesn't appear they are doing anything to address this issue yet. If they don't soon, it could become difficult to change the trend.

legalbeagle05
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Post by legalbeagle05 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:25 pm

From the USA Hockey Website, here are the membership numbers for the past three years (sorry for the wonky columns - it's the best I could do here)

Code: Select all

Year	Total 	20&over 	19	17-18  	15-16	13-14	 11-12 	9-10	7-8	6&U
2014-2015	12,808	1,853	55	392	766	1,610	2,138	2,103	1,995	1,896
2013-2014	12,561	1,817	68	364	698	1,654	2,141	2,106	1,896	1,817
2012-2013	12,358	1,649	82	349	734	1,628	2,186	2,124	1,914	1,692
Draw your own conclusions on growth. I think overall, things are looking good for the girls. It all depends on what level you laser in on, of course.

Take a look at other years here. Kind of fun:

http://www.usahockey.com/page/show/8393 ... statistics

greybeard58
Posts: 2510
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm

Post by greybeard58 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:06 am

10 Years ago the Girls/Women numbers were around 12,000 with fewer women registered. Girls High School numbers down 7%

Lace'emUp
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Lace'emUp » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:10 pm


jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:08 am

I'll post what I know from District 2. Let's remember the point of the youth associations is to create a pool of varsity-capable players for the high school team.

Roseville has one U10 team. Neither St. Paul nor Mahtomedi will have U10A teams this year.

Irondale has 5 eighth graders, 2-3 seventh graders, and 3-4 sixth graders playing hockey. That will not sustain a high school team.

Mounds View has 1 varsity-caliber 8th grader and 4 varsity-caliber 7th graders. That 8th grader has waived out to play U15A, because there are only a few 8th graders in the club and they have declared a U15B team.

How long before the Mounds View - Irondale youth co-op becomes a high school merger? I give it 5 years at most.

White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year. Their 6 remaining B players are co-oping in Roseville.

Again - programs that recruit young girls and invest in their players (Edina, Minnetonka, Stillwater, Andover, Orono, Eden Prairie, Osseo-Maple Grove) are just fine. The rest are going to always fight the numbers game, create co-ops to mask the true problems of their numbers, and it will result in many former powers being on the verge of losing that numbers game.

observer
Posts: 2225
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:45 pm

Post by observer » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:35 am

White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year.
Wow! That's a problem.

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:48 am

observer wrote:
White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year.
Wow! That's a problem.
Yes, it is, and they did not have a U10A team last year. Their high school program will be in deep trouble in 3-4 years.

Mavs
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 am

Post by Mavs » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:39 pm

jg2112 wrote:I'll post what I know from District 2. Let's remember the point of the youth associations is to create a pool of varsity-capable players for the high school team.

Roseville has one U10 team. Neither St. Paul nor Mahtomedi will have U10A teams this year.

Irondale has 5 eighth graders, 2-3 seventh graders, and 3-4 sixth graders playing hockey. That will not sustain a high school team.

Mounds View has 1 varsity-caliber 8th grader and 4 varsity-caliber 7th graders. That 8th grader has waived out to play U15A, because there are only a few 8th graders in the club and they have declared a U15B team.

How long before the Mounds View - Irondale youth co-op becomes a high school merger? I give it 5 years at most.

White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year. Their 6 remaining B players are co-oping in Roseville.

Again - programs that recruit young girls and invest in their players (Edina, Minnetonka, Stillwater, Andover, Orono, Eden Prairie, Osseo-Maple Grove) are just fine. The rest are going to always fight the numbers game, create co-ops to mask the true problems of their numbers, and it will result in many former powers being on the verge of losing that numbers game.
Wow, that is crazy. WBL used to be the king of recruiting players, what happened? Did they stop their recruiting efforts?

Edina 2 12A teams and 2 12B teams (4 total)
Stillwater 12A and 3 U12B (4 total)
Minnetonka 12A and 12B (2 total)
Wayzata 12A and 3 12B (4 total)
Andover 12A and 12B (2 teams)
Eden Prarie 12A and 12B (2 teams)
OMG 12A and 2 12B (3 teams)


When the economy turned south, does this have to do with which associations recruited heavily and which didn't? Just random ups and downs?

Edina, Stillwater and Wayzata are the only ones with 4 teams and OMG the only with 3 teams and even Minnetonka only has 2 teams.

zambonidriver
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Post by zambonidriver » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:38 pm

jg2112 wrote:
observer wrote:
White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year.
Wow! That's a problem.
Yes, it is, and they did not have a U10A team last year. Their high school program will be in deep trouble in 3-4 years.
Yes it will be great example of short sightedness. This will be the third year that we have been away from the WBL association as a family who wavered out I can say that the numbers problem is squarely on the former director who resigned mid last year and the board as a whole and their apathetic approach to girls hockey since its inception. The numbers were stable if not moderately increasing when the recession hit. There were plenty of 02 girls and 03 girls in the pipeline through u-8 and clinic. The problem actually started with the last year of the 01-02 girls in 8's and the coaches that were hired at that level. They were the directors buddies and extremely negative basically chasing all of the really young girls out of the program and there really was no recruiting effort put forth. The hiring process for coaches was extremely skewed to the point where potential coaches would not apply because there was no chance to get the job The director was not looking at the big picture. He was also involved with a group of parents that catered to his older daughter. Any talent that was coming up were encouraged to play up on the next level B team so they could be buried and not noticed. This all happened while the board turned a blind eye to what was going on. If you don't believe me go to the WBl website and look up the meeting minutes and you will see under girls director usually there is nothing to report. During this time 4 families basically ran the girls program and kept the same group of kids together while threatening the girls director that they would leave if a certain parent was not the coach. That parent is now the president of the WBL girls HS booster club. The plan was to keep the group[ of 00-01's together and win state titles at u-12 which we know did not happen. The problem with this plan was some of the girls did not develop much past 12's and kids that could have helped were run off because they were viewed as competition. When the board became aware of all that had happened 3 years ago it was too late. WBL is a great example of what can happen if the board as a whole looks at the girls program with indifference and worries to much about winning and not about the development of the program over time. The directors favorite way communicate was by email and I have saved every correspondence we have had since my daughter started hockey. So I have a great email trail showing the destruction of a program.

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:11 am

Some more information to bring in for this thread.

Coon Rapids and Spring Lake Park are co-oping at the girls varsity level this year. So are Tartan and North St. Paul.

What do these clubs have in common? Youth girls hockey co-ops currently in place (CR is with Champlin. SLP is with Blaine. Tartan / NSP has been in place a while).

A youth co-op normally does not re-generate a program, it only leads to a future problem, and the reality is that there are probably far more co-ops across the state now than single community associations.

We're probably not too far away from White Bear entering into a youth girls' co-op with a neighboring association (Mahtomedi? Roseville?), and their high school team will probably need to do the same for the reasons Zamboni has mentioned.

This is why I'm always baffled when the high school coaches aren't involved with decisions made by the youth program. The youth program can cripple the high school with poor decisions and inadequate recruitment / retention efforts.

Mavs
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 am

Post by Mavs » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:59 am

Mounds View/Irondale would be an easy HS co-op (without combining schools) since they are in the same school district

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:25 am

Mavs wrote:Mounds View/Irondale would be an easy HS co-op (without combining schools) since they are in the same school district
Agreed. This year Irondale is co-oping with St. Anthony Village, but I think the future route for the programs is pretty clear.

The two combined programs have 11 8th graders (one playing "A" this year, the rest playing "B"), and 36 6th and 7th graders. They would need almost a 100% retention rate to field full varsity and JV teams in 4 years for both schools, and like I've said in other posts, Irondale is providing, at most, 20-30% of the skaters in this partnership.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:57 pm

Let's remember the point of the youth associations is to create a pool of varsity-capable players for the high school team.
Is that the mission statement of your association? I'm a little naïve, but I thought youth associations were for the youth.

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:23 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
Let's remember the point of the youth associations is to create a pool of varsity-capable players for the high school team.
Is that the mission statement of your association? I'm a little naïve, but I thought youth associations were for the youth.
Well, no, not the mission statement. If a youth association is doing its job, it ultimately creates a pool of varsity-capable players for the high school team. That is true for any sport.

But no, it is for the kids.

zooomx
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:34 pm

recruit, recruit, recruit

Post by zooomx » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:43 pm

Long term planning, baby.

District 15 is struggling a bit in girls hockey. Brainerd has always been a leader, but is fielding no u12 team at all this year. The total number of girls travel teams have been static at best the past 5 years.

Part of the problem out state is that as the girls programs grew, at first, they helped to fill hours at the community rinks that were available, but often, eventually crowded the boys programs. Did some associations then stifle (or at least devalue) the further growth of girls hockey? Possibly. There are few associations that truly embraced girls hockey and pushed it forward. Why push to further grow a girls program if the ice schedule is already crowded?

In Alexandria, we have consistently pushed to grow the girls program, as most of us understand a strong girls program can benefit the boys side as well. Big sister plays hockey in a 1st generational hockey family. Pretty soon little brother and his friends are trying it as well. We are mega-crowded for ice time, but instead of putting the brakes on growth, we are pushing for an additional sheet of ice. Confident we will make this happen one way or the other.

Tough thing about the girls is convincing the strong players in the program to stick with girls hockey instead of jumping to the boys side. I think quite a few associations struggle with the ramifications of this. Don't want to debate this, but every time a girl jumps to the boys side of the program it directly impacts the girls side in a negative way. Can't really stop it, but it is a reality that makes it hard.

I do worry a lot about girls hockey in Minnesota, as I think the girls are an afterthought in many areas. If you don't have a girls beginner clinic and a strong recruiting plan in place, your program will diminish. Girls hockey will not be self sustaining in 98% of the state. It is a yearly, dedicated, grassroots effort. Anything else will yield failure. Every program needs a girls coordinator whose number one priority is recruitment, and a close second is retention.

Lastly, the biggest problem is this: A lot of girls hockey parents expect the association board to organically understand this issue and push girls hockey forward. Girls hockey is a lot harder to grow than the boys side. So the girls hockey parents need to step up and help grow the sport. Get in front of the board, run for board election, volunteer... whatever it takes. Someone, took the first step to start your girls program... step up and make sure it continues to grow!!

observer
Posts: 2225
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:45 pm

Post by observer » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:55 am

Well said!

The most important function in any association is recruitment.
20-30 new mite girls each year is the goal. Without a consistent strong pro-active effort your association's girl numbers will decline.

Now is the time to pump up your association's mite girl numbers.

Clapper
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:46 pm

Zamboni get over it!

Post by Clapper » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:27 am

zambonidriver wrote:
jg2112 wrote:
observer wrote:
White Bear does not have any U12 teams this year.
Wow! That's a problem.
Yes, it is, and they did not have a U10A team last year. Their high school program will be in deep trouble in 3-4 years.
Yes it will be great example of short sightedness. This will be the third year that we have been away from the WBL association as a family who wavered out I can say that the numbers problem is squarely on the former director who resigned mid last year and the board as a whole and their apathetic approach to girls hockey since its inception. The numbers were stable if not moderately increasing when the recession hit. There were plenty of 02 girls and 03 girls in the pipeline through u-8 and clinic. The problem actually started with the last year of the 01-02 girls in 8's and the coaches that were hired at that level. They were the directors buddies and extremely negative basically chasing all of the really young girls out of the program and there really was no recruiting effort put forth. The hiring process for coaches was extremely skewed to the point where potential coaches would not apply because there was no chance to get the job The director was not looking at the big picture. He was also involved with a group of parents that catered to his older daughter. Any talent that was coming up were encouraged to play up on the next level B team so they could be buried and not noticed. This all happened while the board turned a blind eye to what was going on. If you don't believe me go to the WBl website and look up the meeting minutes and you will see under girls director usually there is nothing to report. During this time 4 families basically ran the girls program and kept the same group of kids together while threatening the girls director that they would leave if a certain parent was not the coach. That parent is now the president of the WBL girls HS booster club. The plan was to keep the group[ of 00-01's together and win state titles at u-12 which we know did not happen. The problem with this plan was some of the girls did not develop much past 12's and kids that could have helped were run off because they were viewed as competition. When the board became aware of all that had happened 3 years ago it was too late. WBL is a great example of what can happen if the board as a whole looks at the girls program with indifference and worries to much about winning and not about the development of the program over time. The directors favorite way communicate was by email and I have saved every correspondence we have had since my daughter started hockey. So I have a great email trail showing the destruction of a program.
You could win an award for complaining. Your like a broken record! It's the same thing over and over and over. Get over it buddy! Your daughter got cut and you have formulated some big conspiracy theory that doesn't exist. She was cut because there was a better goalie in front of her. Plain and simple! So let it go nobody cares.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:29 pm

observer wrote:Well said!

The most important function in any association is recruitment.
20-30 new mite girls each year is the goal. Without a consistent strong pro-active effort your association's girl numbers will decline.

Now is the time to pump up your association's mite girl numbers.
What a beautiful world that would be! Lick a snozberry, it tastes like snozberries.

Lace'emUp
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:08 pm

jg2112 wrote:This is why I'm always baffled when the high school coaches aren't involved with decisions made by the youth program. The youth program can cripple the high school with poor decisions and inadequate recruitment / retention efforts.
In my opinion, if high school coaches wanted to be involved, for the most part, the associations would welcome it. Part of that is spending a few hours once a month attending a board meeting. How many do this? Those meetings are the open forum where development options are discussed.

I would agree with you that an association that makes poor decisions can impact the high school immediately, or down the road. Likewise, the poor decisions a high school can make can cripple an association. Mainly, taking younger players when they're not ready. Unless they are a superstar, and very few are, let them get more games and shifts with the youth program.

Post Reply