HP14 / HP15

Discussion of Minnesota Girls Youth Hockey

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Bandy
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HP14 / HP15

Post by Bandy » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:34 am

New thread.

I was going to complain about how poorly our district's practices are run, and about the stupidity of scheduling games during school hours (and parent's normal working hours). But I won't. Let's keep it positive, eh?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:02 am

I think it's a fair question to ask: what are they trying to do with the 14 and 15 programs?

Just browsing the D6 website, it looks like the 15's are paying (so far) $565 (includes the $50 to USAH and MNH for the high school kids) for 13.5 hours of practice, a few scrimmages, and a tournament.

Bandy
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Post by Bandy » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:21 am

InigoMontoya wrote:I think it's a fair question to ask: what are they trying to do with the 14 and 15 programs?

Just browsing the D6 website, it looks like the 15's are paying (so far) $565 (includes the $50 to USAH and MNH for the high school kids) for 13.5 hours of practice, a few scrimmages, and a tournament.
Indeed. Some have criticized this as a money maker for MN / USA Hockey. I've been unimpressed with the organization and coaching of my daughter's program this year. Lot of time wasted kneeling, standing in lines, poor ice utilization, etc... But I was going to keep this positive, so I won't say anything about that.

On the positive side: The high-end of this can be great for the few chosen to go to USA Hockey's national HP camp in the summer time. This may be unrealistic goal for most players, but... "100% of the shots you don't take don't go in."

The experience and exposure of making it to national camp can turn D1 dreams into reality. MN typically has more D1 recruits than Natty camp attendees. So it's not the only path to D1, but the recruiting process will be a lot easier with USAH national camp on her hockey resume. That's what you're paying for.

Good luck to all!

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:55 am

InigoMontoya wrote:I think it's a fair question to ask: what are they trying to do with the 14 and 15 programs?

Just browsing the D6 website, it looks like the 15's are paying (so far) $565 (includes the $50 to USAH and MNH for the high school kids) for 13.5 hours of practice, a few scrimmages, and a tournament.
Appears to be priced a little better than many of the Select/All Star/AAA type tourneys have been in the semi immediate past.

Agree with Bandy on the kid resume building opportunity cost...

Poached from the D5 website:

Fees

Phase 1 = $80 (online payment with MN Hockey). I think tryouts (4 hours, probably a jersey, $20/hour ice)

Phase 2 = $160 ($100 online payment with MN Hockey; $60 check to District 5). Looks like 11.5 hours of practice ($13.91/hour ice).

Phase 3 = $200 ($170 online payment with MN Hockey; $30 check to District 5). 5 games + most likely a jersey and socks ($40 per game with jersey + socks).

http://district5.pucksystems2.com/page/ ... nformation

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... eTimes.pdf

Overall in my opinion is it NOT that unreasonable in my mind considering how much coaching (good or bad) and ice typically costs.

goaliedad31
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Post by goaliedad31 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:12 pm

It seemed to me to be much more political this year than in year's past. A lot of attention given to a player's "resume" and less to do with how they performed on the ice during tryouts. Our district had several players - all from the same team - miss one of the three original tryouts that made the team, only to have several of them also miss a couple of the practices and still make the final 20. This happened on both the girls side and the boys side.

Seems that if you play for connected coaches your resume gets a lot more attention.

Also, a big range of players between the districts, with some districts taking "B" level players just to get to 20 and others cutting talented "A" players due to large turn out.

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:06 pm

Do any of you feel there would be a negative consequence of skipping the HP 14 process and then jumping in at the HP 15 year?

I've seen how many practices my daughter's teammates have been double-booked for this year (her 2002 teammates had to do a LOT of choosing and missing one or the other) and it makes me a bit apprehensive.

A fair number from her team will be up in Duluth and missing the Meltdown this weekend. Same would happen next year. Kind of a bummer.

Bandy
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Post by Bandy » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:17 pm

jg2112 wrote:Do any of you feel there would be a negative consequence of skipping the HP 14 process and then jumping in at the HP 15 year?

I've seen how many practices my daughter's teammates have been double-booked for this year (her 2002 teammates had to do a LOT of choosing and missing one or the other) and it makes me a bit apprehensive.

A fair number from her team will be up in Duluth and missing the Meltdown this weekend. Same would happen next year. Kind of a bummer.
Can't say for certain, but probably not any negatives. If your player is a star player, I can't see why anyone would want to cut her just cuz she skipped HP14.

As for schedule conflicts, anyone organizing tournaments should do a bit of research and communicating w/ MN Hockey & USA Hockey. It is bone-headed to schedule a tournament that would conflict with the HP process. Flawed as it is, it is a big deal for the players that end up making national camp. Why would any tournament organizer interfere with that?

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:47 pm

I got this straight from the the u18 national coach. The national teams don't care who makes 14's and 15's go play your spring sports then tryout at 16's and 17's.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:03 pm

Straight from the parent of a kid that went to the 15s national camp (I paraphrase): nobody knew who she was before the natty camp, many calls since then.

In regards to spring sports: do those as a 16 and 17, as well - 14 and 15 may help to learn how to balance.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:36 pm

ZD & IM you are both correct to some degree (from what I have heard over the years from participants of 15's thru Nat'l Teams).

There were 3 15's from MN that made last years Select 66. I would guess that the most likely candidate from the metro to have made that camp this year (and still might be) would be Breza from Breck. She has been the most dominant 01 that I have seen over the last couple of years. I believe that she is recovering from some sort of a shoulder injury and is NOT on the current D3 roster for this weekends games.

I have heard from some that made last years National Camp as a 15 year old that they received several inquiries/letters/other from coaches post making that CAMP.

Making the National team means you automatically have to play for the Gophers unless they don't want you. Then you have to be available for BC, Wisconsin, or soon to be (with a coaching change) BU.

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:39 pm

It seems participation is waning a bit. If you look at what districts had to use players from outside their district to fill their roster on HP-15's, back in 2014 there were NO fill-ins on any district roster.

In 2015, that number jumped to 20 fill-ins required over 4 different district rosters at HP-15. D5 and D15 had the most issues needing 8 players (each) from other districts.

This year at HP-15, it's even worse. 22 fill-ins will be required over 6 different districts. D16 has 9 fill-ins. D4/9 only has 14 rostered, so they will need 6.

Looking at HP-14's, 25 fill-in players were needed over 6 district rosters. D15 needed 6 players, and D11/12 appears to have a whopping 13 outsiders. The odd part with D11/12 is the spring festival will be in their own back yard (Duluth).

With the 14's (2002), they still have the MN Selects option, so that probably cuts into HP-14 participation. For example, the 2002 West Select team had 17 rostered, but only 9 making an HP-14 roster. With only 4 teams and 68 total players at 2002 Selects, one would think that most could grab one of the 200 HP-14 spots, if they wanted it. But my guess is that parents look at cost and pick one or the other. HP-14 is $85+$100+$180 if you make it to the festival. Since it's in Duluth, add in another $350 for hotel, food, gas. Grand total is +$700. I don't recall what the Selects fee is, but it's probably cheaper than $365. Hotel, food, gas would be the same being in St. Cloud. Either way, the total Select bill is probably $500+. For those who need hotels, your total bill for the 2 spring festivals is at least $1200.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:41 pm

Maybe it will change this year but can't see much of an issue in NOT doing the U14 HP stuff.

An interesting thing to me will be how this Minnesota Hockey Tier 1 fall league will work out...is this something that kids will be strongly encouraged to participate in?

Will participating at all at 14 benefit you for 15's? Or 15's (with no chance at a National Championship) be beneficial for trying to make 16/17's?

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:00 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Straight from the parent of a kid that went to the 15s national camp (I paraphrase): nobody knew who she was before the natty camp, many calls since then.

In regards to spring sports: do those as a 16 and 17, as well - 14 and 15 may help to learn how to balance.
Probably a better way to look at it.

Of the calls since, do you know how many or if any contacted your AD before or after contacting you?

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:36 pm

massalsa wrote:Maybe it will change this year but can't see much of an issue in NOT doing the U14 HP stuff.

An interesting thing to me will be how this Minnesota Hockey Tier 1 fall league will work out...is this something that kids will be strongly encouraged to participate in?

Will participating at all at 14 benefit you for 15's? Or 15's (with no chance at a National Championship) be beneficial for trying to make 16/17's?
To me, Tier 1 could be more beneficial because the competition should be of the same high caliber as HP's in the spring, you get the same number of pre-league practices as the HP's do in the spring (as noted on MNH website), and in-season practices. But the biggest difference is the 12 league games, and playoffs. At the 14's and 15's for HP, you only get your 3 spring festival games and that's it.

For the girls, to be National Championship eligible, you only need 14 games played, with everyone on the roster participating in at least 10 of the games. Rosters are frozen on 12/31. But like the 16U and 19U's did this spring, they played several more games in to get ready for Nationals. On the boys side, they'll have to play spring games. They're under a 20/10 rule, so the 12 fall games with a few playoff games will not be enough for the one or maybe two 14U teams that make Nationals. There are no Nationals for 15U, so their season is done in the fall.

One more item to confuse things. This past fall there were more than several 2000's, or girls who played HP-15's last year, that played in the Elite HS League at the Tier 1 16U level. If Tier 1 15U started last fall, they would've been eligible to be apart of that. So the question is, what will MNH do with the top end 2001's this fall? Force them to play Tier 1 15U (which has no Nationals), or allow them to play Elite League this fall at Tier 1 16U? Will the Elite League cap at the 2000's or allow 2001's in?

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:34 am

Here is something to think about MNH keeps saying they want multi-sport athletes but keeps adding spring/summer/fall programs. Basically all of these programs feed off of FOMO. Training all summer does help but by Dec. the kids who have taken some time off have caught up. All of the coaches that are at St. Cloud are at prospects. Minnesota is the number 1 recruited state in the nation. The coaches will find the kids Winny is great with that. It is ok to take some time off and recharge.

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:55 am

zambonidriver wrote:Here is something to think about MNH keeps saying they want multi-sport athletes but keeps adding spring/summer/fall programs. Basically all of these programs feed off of FOMO. Training all summer does help but by Dec. the kids who have taken some time off have caught up. All of the coaches that are at St. Cloud are at prospects. Minnesota is the number 1 recruited state in the nation. The coaches will find the kids Winny is great with that. It is ok to take some time off and recharge.
I agree for the most part.

Are you not having your daughter participate in HP spring and fall?

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:05 am

Early 15 scores posted

D6- 2
D5- 1

D15- 8
D16- 1

D11/12- 2
D10- 1

D8- 2
D4/9- 2

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:08 am

zambonidriver wrote:Here is something to think about MNH keeps saying they want multi-sport athletes but keeps adding spring/summer/fall programs. Basically all of these programs feed off of FOMO. Training all summer does help but by Dec. the kids who have taken some time off have caught up. All of the coaches that are at St. Cloud are at prospects. Minnesota is the number 1 recruited state in the nation. The coaches will find the kids Winny is great with that. It is ok to take some time off and recharge.
I think we need to define the problem in youth sports. I would argue "specializing" and playing one sport year-round isn't the problem. That's what most kids do in other countries and they seem to do quite alright. Soccer in South America and Europe being the obvious example. Nobody was telling Lionel Messi to put away the soccer ball in October to avoid burn-out. These kids choose their sport at age 8 and train in it all year. They then play other sports with friends in the neighborhood, which is why I don't get the term "multi-sport" athletes. What kid only plays hockey and doesn't bike, or play tennis, or go running, or play tag, or throw a football around. Does "multi-sport" really mean "multiple organized sporting activities you have to pay for"?

The problem to me is a lack of free and unorganized play in hockey, which leads to a lack of what I've seen called "physical literacy." Everything's organized, drilled, kids can't play for themselves the way kids play soccer EVERYWHERE in other countries. Those kids set the rules, coach themselves, solve problems, etc. Here, kids' sports are one of 17 activities they're doing every week. We even have to schedule "rec" sports, which were simply "sports with friends in the neighborhood" when we were all younger. Rec programs should not have to exist!

I don't think kids need to re-charge. I certainly didn't need to "put my basketball away" for three months a year as a child, though I might have if my Dad drove me to a "dribbling clinic" two days a week. I think they should keep playing as much as they want. I just think they need more hockey-related activities (roller hockey comes to mind) where they are in charge of the game, not parents/coaches.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:16 am

She is this spring but probably not in the fall. Up to her, I know she wants to play varsity soccer in the fall so that will take priority. Golf in the spring. Not sure about 15's after talking to JJ will probably not do 15's then do 16's and 17's again up to her she loves to play but also loves to fish and do other things. I keep promising her a spring fishing trip on the Rainy River but hockey always gets in the way. Growing up way too fast looking at the summer schedule hockey is not to bad. June to Rochester and July to Prague. Don't really need 15's because of prospects and futures, again up to her. Scaling back the summer stuff this year. She plans on putting 200 hours on the Seadoo this summer and getting a good tan #-o. I love that she is finding balance.

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:48 am

zambonidriver wrote:She is this spring but probably not in the fall. Up to her, I know she wants to play varsity soccer in the fall so that will take priority. Golf in the spring. Not sure about 15's after talking to JJ will probably not do 15's then do 16's and 17's again up to her she loves to play but also loves to fish and do other things. I keep promising her a spring fishing trip on the Rainy River but hockey always gets in the way. Growing up way too fast looking at the summer schedule hockey is not to bad. June to Rochester and July to Prague. Don't really need 15's because of prospects and futures, again up to her. Scaling back the summer stuff this year. She plans on putting 200 hours on the Seadoo this summer and getting a good tan #-o. I love that she is finding balance.
Good for her!

How much did she participate in previously? From what you just listed, on top of OS Spring, OS summer, MN Selects and HP - in June with P/F and NAPPS, that is three weekends and some week days booked up. In July, with Prague and P/F, that is 3 weekends and a full week booked up. Is she going to participate in FL's STP?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:07 am

Mavs wrote:Early 15 scores posted

D6- 2
D5- 1

D15- 8
D16- 1

D11/12- 2
D10- 1

D8- 2
D4/9- 2
Looks like there will be a lot of exciting, competitive hockey in Edina this weekend.

Bandy
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Post by Bandy » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:22 am

zambonidriver wrote:She is this spring but probably not in the fall....
Same here, unless tiger mom over-rules me. My player has got enough hockey stuff on her plate w/out adding fall tier-1.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:28 am

Yes, With os we let her go as she wants. She was invited to the gopher high school camp she really wants to do that. We are letting her drive what she wants to do. STP is a morning thing done by 11:00 am if it goes like last year they will all be on a lake by 11:10. She is now driving the bus as she should typical teenager though her wants change by the second. Last night in the same conversation she told me that she will be glad for a break after HP but can't wait to train with Nora next week. ](*,) so we will see.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:41 am

In 14 D3, D11/12 and D6 are 2-0. D3 and D11/12 play today
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... ival-2016-



In 15 D2 and D6 are rolling as the clear top 2 but don't play each other
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... ival-2016-

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:43 pm

FL varsity Soccer team only graduated one.

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