Association not allowing privates on top teams

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Puck8
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:31 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Puck8 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:22 am

SWPrez wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:04 pm
ozz wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:54 pm

So, just as a hypothetical: If a Stillwater bantam freshman is asked by the Stillwater HS coaching staff, after the bantam season has already started, to skate captains' practices and tryout for the HS team (let's even say with the stated expectation that the kid would likely play mostly JV but get to dress a lot of games and practice with the varsity all year), his family should be forced to potentially take a big hit to the bank account or just decline the opportunity from his future coach? The decision to leave his team would already be so tough on the kid that adding a major financial impact on his parents' part seems almost cruel to the 14-year-old.
YES. Absolutely. The association shouldn't be used as a training camp for any high school player, public or private. If the player isn't committed to the team and the association, it is best that they move on at the beginning of the season and not disrupt the association program. An association could choose to play AA and after losing 3 or 4 that used the program for two months to ultimately play high school, end up with a team that is a strong B1 team at best. Not to mention they would pull up kids from the next lower team to fill these holes and those teams would be mismatched. Association should let high school coach know that this is the program. He is free to take kids if he wants, but if they start the season in the association, parents are on the hook for 100% of the dues. Kids can skate captains and find some clinics to stay sharp if they are skipping bantams - just like their high school teammates will be doing.
So by all means, let’s make sure the kid makes the decision that is in the best interest of the association. Please. :roll:
The youth and HS seasons don’t line up. The kids with HS potential are put in a difficult situation and you want them to skip Bantam tryouts and hopefully make HS, or they should essentially be fined if they tryout for Bantams but then make HS. Making them pay 100% if they leave is purely vindictive and has no place in this argument. Associations should be able to manage around this without burning down the player. If the logic is that losing a couple players ruins a team’s chance of having a winning team, then the motivation is completely misplaced. As I said earlier, any good coach should be happy for a player that advances, regardless if it’s in the same system or not. Anything else is pure selfishness.

blueline_6
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by blueline_6 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 am

Puck8 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:22 am
SWPrez wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:04 pm
ozz wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:54 pm

So, just as a hypothetical: If a Stillwater bantam freshman is asked by the Stillwater HS coaching staff, after the bantam season has already started, to skate captains' practices and tryout for the HS team (let's even say with the stated expectation that the kid would likely play mostly JV but get to dress a lot of games and practice with the varsity all year), his family should be forced to potentially take a big hit to the bank account or just decline the opportunity from his future coach? The decision to leave his team would already be so tough on the kid that adding a major financial impact on his parents' part seems almost cruel to the 14-year-old.
YES. Absolutely. The association shouldn't be used as a training camp for any high school player, public or private. If the player isn't committed to the team and the association, it is best that they move on at the beginning of the season and not disrupt the association program. An association could choose to play AA and after losing 3 or 4 that used the program for two months to ultimately play high school, end up with a team that is a strong B1 team at best. Not to mention they would pull up kids from the next lower team to fill these holes and those teams would be mismatched. Association should let high school coach know that this is the program. He is free to take kids if he wants, but if they start the season in the association, parents are on the hook for 100% of the dues. Kids can skate captains and find some clinics to stay sharp if they are skipping bantams - just like their high school teammates will be doing.
So by all means, let’s make sure the kid makes the decision that is in the best interest of the association. Please. :roll:
The youth and HS seasons don’t line up. The kids with HS potential are put in a difficult situation and you want them to skip Bantam tryouts and hopefully make HS, or they should essentially be fined if they tryout for Bantams but then make HS. Making them pay 100% if they leave is purely vindictive and has no place in this argument. Associations should be able to manage around this without burning down the player. If the logic is that losing a couple players ruins a team’s chance of having a winning team, then the motivation is completely misplaced. As I said earlier, any good coach should be happy for a player that advances, regardless if it’s in the same system or not. Anything else is pure selfishness.
Any HS coach with half a brain would never create this scenario in the first place. Wait until after Bantam tryouts and then tell a kid to come tryout for HS? Yes, let's burn bridges with the youth program that develops your player pool AND put a kid/family in an uncomfortable situation, it's a two-for-one. The onus here is on the HS coach being intelligent enough to have that conversation before youth tryouts, if he's doing his job right he would be familiar with the player already.

HSPuckFan96
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by HSPuckFan96 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:06 pm

2 things...
Why don't the private schools have bantam and maybe pewee teams? There are private schools that have traveling basketball teams in 6th-8th grades.

I asked earlier, but I'm still curious...are there quite a few bantam kids that are asked to try out for HS, but end up back in bantams? The tryouts I have been aware of, with bantams involved, were more to see if they would play JV or Varsity, not HS or bantams

WarmUpTheBus
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by WarmUpTheBus » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:15 pm

HSPuckFan96 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:06 pm
2 things...
Why don't the private schools have bantam and maybe pewee teams? There are private schools that have traveling basketball teams in 6th-8th grades.

I asked earlier, but I'm still curious...are there quite a few bantam kids that are asked to try out for HS, but end up back in bantams? The tryouts I have been aware of, with bantams involved, were more to see if they would play JV or Varsity, not HS or bantams
Why don't the private schools have bantam and maybe pewee teams?
Because all the private school haters could start complaining about recruiting of players beginning in 6th grade. :mrgreen:

HSPuckFan96
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by HSPuckFan96 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:15 pm
HSPuckFan96 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:06 pm
2 things...
Why don't the private schools have bantam and maybe pewee teams? There are private schools that have traveling basketball teams in 6th-8th grades.

I asked earlier, but I'm still curious...are there quite a few bantam kids that are asked to try out for HS, but end up back in bantams? The tryouts I have been aware of, with bantams involved, were more to see if they would play JV or Varsity, not HS or bantams
Why don't the private schools have bantam and maybe pewee teams?
Because all the private school haters could start complaining about recruiting of players beginning in 6th grade. :mrgreen:
could help those associations flush out who will and will not be a part of their prized varsity program, earlier. The blacklist could grow.

Green and White Fan
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:51 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:32 pm

I can only speak for associations around my area and they are viewed as the training grounds for your high school varsity program. A state championship at a bantam or peewee level is great and it is the ultimate prize for that season, but the ultimate prize is making kids better to put the best High School team on the ice. Wearing the high school sweater was what kids are working for or at least that used to be the case. I think in the metro you are far more used to kids jumping around to play hockey in high school. Leaving, after honing your skills to make another high school team better is looked down on by many up north, right or wrong.
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

mrchips
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:03 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by mrchips » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:56 pm

I'd be willing the bet that if you surveyed the parents of the top 10 AA bantam players (the kids not on the bubble), most or all would want "bantam AA first line Johnny" on the AA team even though he's a 9th grader at Holy Grace High School and their kids are going to the local public high school. It's the bubble kids' parents that want their kids on as high a team as possible, regardless of whether they can handle the level or not.

Schotzy
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:36 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Schotzy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:41 am

mrchips wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I'd be willing the bet that if you surveyed the parents of the top 10 AA bantam players (the kids not on the bubble), most or all would want "bantam AA first line Johnny" on the AA team even though he's a 9th grader at Holy Grace High School and their kids are going to the local public high school. It's the bubble kids' parents that want their kids on as high a team as possible, regardless of whether they can handle the level or not.
Nailed it. Seriously. You absolutely nailed it.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Jeffy95 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am

mrchips wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I'd be willing the bet that if you surveyed the parents of the top 10 AA bantam players (the kids not on the bubble), most or all would want "bantam AA first line Johnny" on the AA team even though he's a 9th grader at Holy Grace High School and their kids are going to the local public high school. It's the bubble kids' parents that want their kids on as high a team as possible, regardless of whether they can handle the level or not.
There is no doubt that is true. Those 10 sets of Parents want to see their kid's team win first and foremost. They care about what is best for their kid. They are generally not thinking about what is best for the Association or High School Program. That is why Parent's don't make those types of decisions. So while I agree, I don't think this has anything to do with the overall question of this thread.

mrchips
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:03 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by mrchips » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:51 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am
mrchips wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I'd be willing the bet that if you surveyed the parents of the top 10 AA bantam players (the kids not on the bubble), most or all would want "bantam AA first line Johnny" on the AA team even though he's a 9th grader at Holy Grace High School and their kids are going to the local public high school. It's the bubble kids' parents that want their kids on as high a team as possible, regardless of whether they can handle the level or not.
There is no doubt that is true. Those 10 sets of Parents want to see their kid's team win first and foremost. They care about what is best for their kid. They are generally not thinking about what is best for the Association or High School Program. That is why Parent's don't make those types of decisions. So while I agree, I don't think this has anything to do with the overall question of this thread.
My point is just that when someone wants something, they'll use any argument at their disposal to help bring about their desired result. Even when it's based on logic they'd disagree with in a different context.

The Exiled One
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by The Exiled One » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:00 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am
There is no doubt that is true. Those 10 sets of Parents want to see their kid's team win first and foremost. They care about what is best for their kid. They are generally not thinking about what is best for the Association or High School Program. That is why Parent's don't make those types of decisions. So while I agree, I don't think this has anything to do with the overall question of this thread.
That's basically what I said in the 6th post of this entire thread. I disagree with the practice of treating the association as a farm team of the high school in principle. Not everybody shares the same principles as me.

(Though I would also argue that discriminating against private school kids in association hockey potentially does more harm than good to both the association and the public HS team.)

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