Private School Trash talk thread

[Bonehead]

I'm just curious what people think recruiting actually is? Do people think that these coaches go to PW and Bantam games as just starting calling players?

That's what I wanna know! I imagine it's a soup of hyper-active alumni, doting parents, school reputations and yes even talent scouting. The pizza party joke was going around earlier but I've never been invited so I couldn't tell you if that's true or not.

I'm getting kind of tired of trying to get an honest answer. It's like asking Bill Clinton about sexual relations.

[stpaul]

gifted at hockey left Stillwater in HS alumi payed all his bills at Hill including Hill gear like hooded sweat shirts and sweat pants books,hockey

My good friend got free schooling at Hill and his mom and dad live in a nice house on the river in stillwater section 8 housing must be riverside in stillwater

I can top both of those:

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris Bueller pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess its pretty serious.

[sportstecminnesota]

Recruiting of athletes by private schools is a national issue and much worst in other parts of the country where football and basketball are prominent. In suburban DC there is a private school that has more alumni in the NFL (12) than any other high school. Lebron James forced his high school to enroll his whole summer AAU team and hire his AAU coach for him to come back to the school. There was an editorial in the Minneapolis paper a few weeks ago about open enrollment being used too often for sports reasons. Public schools have open enrollment and private schools have recruiting. There used to be separate tournaments for private schools before they were folded into the MSHL so I doubt they would be separated again. No good answers to a national problem.

[HShockeywatcher]

Recruiting of athletes by private schools is a national issue and much worst in other parts of the country where football and basketball are prominent. In suburban DC there is a private school that has more alumni in the NFL (12) than any other high school. Lebron James forced his high school to enroll his whole summer AAU team and hire his AAU coach for him to come back to the school. There was an editorial in the Minneapolis paper a few weeks ago about open enrollment being used too often for sports reasons. Public schools have open enrollment and private schools have recruiting. There used to be separate tournaments for private schools before they were folded into the MSHL so I doubt they would be separated again. No good answers to a national problem.

Tell me about the public schools in DC...
Regardless of your opinion on the issue, those who continue to deny the connection aren't taking the conversation forward.

There are some. People in the position to make change aren't doing it in many areas, unfortunately.

[Mite-dad]

Recruiting of athletes by private schools is a national issue and much worst in other parts of the country where football and basketball are prominent. In suburban DC there is a private school that has more alumni in the NFL (12) than any other high school. Lebron James forced his high school to enroll his whole summer AAU team and hire his AAU coach for him to come back to the school. There was an editorial in the Minneapolis paper a few weeks ago about open enrollment being used too often for sports reasons. Public schools have open enrollment and private schools have recruiting. There used to be separate tournaments for private schools before they were folded into the MSHL so I doubt they would be separated again. No good answers to a national problem.

Tell me about the public schools in DC...
Regardless of your opinion on the issue, those who continue to deny the connection aren't taking the conversation forward.

There are some. People in the position to make change aren't doing it in many areas, unfortunately.

Yeah, there's a reason Barak doesn't send his kids to the D.C. public schools. I think they are some of the worst anywhere.

[nahc]

WOW, 32 pages of comments!!!! Some pretty darn great comments...The Private schools have a ton to offer kids, small class sizes, a great education on the whole...........so they really need their own playoffs......

[old goalie85]

I respect the choice to send your child to private school. If you can afford it - why not. I also feel they should have a private tournament . Then who would have anything to complain about ? Simple fix. We would also find out how many are going to those schools for the education !!!

[HShockeywatcher]

Does anyone know where you can find the actual enrollments of the schools in MN? The enrollment page on the mshsl site has the numbers after multipliers, but doesn't show the actual enrolled as far as I'm aware.

Recruiting of athletes by private schools is a national issue and much worst in other parts of the country where football and basketball are prominent. In suburban DC there is a private school that has more alumni in the NFL (12) than any other high school. Lebron James forced his high school to enroll his whole summer AAU team and hire his AAU coach for him to come back to the school. There was an editorial in the Minneapolis paper a few weeks ago about open enrollment being used too often for sports reasons. Public schools have open enrollment and private schools have recruiting. There used to be separate tournaments for private schools before they were folded into the MSHL so I doubt they would be separated again. No good answers to a national problem.

Tell me about the public schools in DC...
Regardless of your opinion on the issue, those who continue to deny the connection aren't taking the conversation forward.

There are some. People in the position to make change aren't doing it in many areas, unfortunately.

Yeah, there's a reason Barak doesn't send his kids to the D.C. public schools. I think they are some of the worst anywhere.

Bingo. I'm not saying there isn't recruiting, although that word is thrown around often without being defined much, but there is a reason many people leave the school district they're in when given the opportunity. Many of the other places around the country with issues of powerful private schools are in a similar situation.

I know people want to continue to ignore it, but it simply can't improve much if the education system is ignored.

I respect the choice to send your child to private school. If you can afford it - why not. I also feel they should have a private tournament . Then who would have anything to complain about ? Simple fix. We would also find out how many are going to those schools for the education !!!

Do you honestly think that's the "simple fix" we're looking for?
My guess is the second the likes of Holy Angels, Breck, St Thomas, Benilde, Hill Murray and others are told they have their own tournament, they would simply leave for hockey and make their own rules. They would start playing 50 game schedules, and even more kids would leave for private schools.
Maybe I'm wrong on exactly what would happen, but it would likely be something similar. I think the "simple fix" that many suggest would have numerous unwanted consequences, which is likely part of the reason few with the position of power to suggest something like this actually are.

I would also add that I doubt they would do this just for hockey. Despite what so many on here want to believe, there are limitations based on the fact that the MSHSL is pretty uniform in what they do. They aren't going to have a private hockey tournament and not one for any other sport.

It also strikes me as odd that this would be suggested after a tournament where the top seeded private school lost to a public school and another tournament where a team seeded behind two private schools beat a private school, upset another in OT and lost to a third by 1 goal.
Doesn't seem like there's much evidence of many private schools dominating. One or two maybe, but not the collective bunch.

[old goalie85]

There are only so many of them. How many privates are there ? Twenty/Twentyfive ? Let the kids that can afford to play there play there. I think this is a great way to get rid of them[ the private schools] and get back to one public tournament. Yes simple fix !! Big deal that is only 500/600 kids. Plenty to step in and take their places. This thing is only going to get worse !! Let them put together the private tourny themselves !

[observer]

why not.

That's the problem. Other than religious affiliation we want our children to attend a strong, neighborhood, public school. As long as the neighborhood public high school is every bit as good of an experience as a parochial one we would never change. Some have a religious preference, a preference to wear a costume, and some feel the experience is better at a different school. I know this is a hockey forum but remember, we're talking about dance, debate, chess club and theater.

[Bonehead]

Here we go again!

Does anyone know where you can find the actual enrollments of the schools in MN? The enrollment page on the mshsl site has the numbers after multipliers, but doesn't show the actual enrolled as far as I'm aware.

Tell me about the public schools in DC...
Regardless of your opinion on the issue, those who continue to deny the connection aren't taking the conversation forward.

There are some. People in the position to make change aren't doing it in many areas, unfortunately.

Yeah, there's a reason Barak doesn't send his kids to the D.C. public schools. I think they are some of the worst anywhere.

Bingo. I'm not saying there isn't recruiting, although that word is thrown around often without being defined much, but there is a reason many people leave the school district they're in when given the opportunity. Many of the other places around the country with issues of powerful private schools are in a similar situation.

I know people want to continue to ignore it, but it simply can't improve much if the education system is ignored.

I respect the choice to send your child to private school. If you can afford it - why not. I also feel they should have a private tournament . Then who would have anything to complain about ? Simple fix. We would also find out how many are going to those schools for the education !!!

Do you honestly think that's the "simple fix" we're looking for?
My guess is the second the likes of Holy Angels, Breck, St Thomas, Benilde, Hill Murray and others are told they have their own tournament, they would simply leave for hockey and make their own rules. They would start playing 50 game schedules, and even more kids would leave for private schools.
Maybe I'm wrong on exactly what would happen, but it would likely be something similar. I think the "simple fix" that many suggest would have numerous unwanted consequences, which is likely part of the reason few with the position of power to suggest something like this actually are.

I would also add that I doubt they would do this just for hockey. Despite what so many on here want to believe, there are limitations based on the fact that the MSHSL is pretty uniform in what they do. They aren't going to have a private hockey tournament and not one for any other sport.

It also strikes me as odd that this would be suggested after a tournament where the top seeded private school lost to a public school and another tournament where a team seeded behind two private schools beat a private school, upset another in OT and lost to a third by 1 goal.
Doesn't seem like there's much evidence of many private schools dominating. One or two maybe, but not the collective bunch.

Exhibit A: Check the minnhock archives at http://www.minnhock.com/archives.htm and go to boys hockey section scores and check the section 5a (pre 2008)/section 4a (post 2008) section tournament seeds and results. Shame on you.

From About MSHSL: "The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Don't tell me I should be happy with the status quo.

[AMERICAN]

Both sides on this debate obviously don't like playing and competing against the best. You guys are a bunch of marsh-mellows who want the easy way to a blue ribbon. The privates who don't opt up to AA should scrap their hockey program and focus on something else. How good can you feel about beating Hermantown who is afraid to join the ranks of the AA schools like Roseau. Wouldn't you much rather have a chance at beating the Edina's and Benilde's than taking home a class A trophy? What better feeling is there than being the underdog and upsetting the big dogs? We all know that anyone can win on any given day. Isn't that what makes it fun? Some of you guys want to turn this into a multiple class system where everyones a winner. To the Hermantowns out there, quit your bellyaching and compete against the best and if you lose at least you can say you lost to the best rather than being happy and celebrating and class A state tourney championship against the Induses out there. You guys should all be advocating going back to a one class tourney like the good old days rather than trying to figure out how to get little Johnny's team a blue ribbon and crying that he'll never get one because the system isn't set up fairly. Put on the cups boys and get to work if you want to be the best!

[394 West]

Here we go again!

Does anyone know where you can find the actual enrollments of the schools in MN? The enrollment page on the mshsl site has the numbers after multipliers, but doesn't show the actual enrolled as far as I'm aware.

Yeah, there's a reason Barak doesn't send his kids to the D.C. public schools. I think they are some of the worst anywhere.

Bingo. I'm not saying there isn't recruiting, although that word is thrown around often without being defined much, but there is a reason many people leave the school district they're in when given the opportunity. Many of the other places around the country with issues of powerful private schools are in a similar situation.

I know people want to continue to ignore it, but it simply can't improve much if the education system is ignored.

I respect the choice to send your child to private school. If you can afford it - why not. I also feel they should have a private tournament . Then who would have anything to complain about ? Simple fix. We would also find out how many are going to those schools for the education !!!

Do you honestly think that's the "simple fix" we're looking for?
My guess is the second the likes of Holy Angels, Breck, St Thomas, Benilde, Hill Murray and others are told they have their own tournament, they would simply leave for hockey and make their own rules. They would start playing 50 game schedules, and even more kids would leave for private schools.
Maybe I'm wrong on exactly what would happen, but it would likely be something similar. I think the "simple fix" that many suggest would have numerous unwanted consequences, which is likely part of the reason few with the position of power to suggest something like this actually are.

I would also add that I doubt they would do this just for hockey. Despite what so many on here want to believe, there are limitations based on the fact that the MSHSL is pretty uniform in what they do. They aren't going to have a private hockey tournament and not one for any other sport.

It also strikes me as odd that this would be suggested after a tournament where the top seeded private school lost to a public school and another tournament where a team seeded behind two private schools beat a private school, upset another in OT and lost to a third by 1 goal.
Doesn't seem like there's much evidence of many private schools dominating. One or two maybe, but not the collective bunch.

Exhibit A: Check the minnhock archives at http://www.minnhock.com/archives.htm and go to boys hockey section scores and check the section 5a (pre 2008)/section 4a (post 2008) section tournament seeds and results. Shame on you.

From About MSHSL: "The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Don't tell me I should be happy with the status quo.

So are you limiting this to only class A?

[thestickler07]

Creating a private school tournament would destroy high school hockey.

Privates would just go to 20 minute periods, extended schedules, start giving out full athletic scholarships. Think about a ~50 game season of elite level hockey that you don't have to go to boarding school or live with a host family to do. Plus you can get an education at elite institutions like BSM, HM, Breck, STAA, CDH etc.

What are some of the biggest reasons that kids don't go out of state to play juniors/AAA etc early? I'd say it's because the competition is reasonably good in Minnesota high school hockey and because moving away from all your family and friends at the age of 15/16 can be an intimidating and scary thing to do for a teenager.

Why would you do anything to make those two hurdles easier to jump over if you want to keep quality kids in the system here? Look at New England preps like Avon Old Farms, Salisbury, N&G, Kent School etc and think about if that's what you want.

[observer]

So are you limiting this to only class A?

No. This is the "private school trash talk thread." You can trash any and all private schools.

[Bonehead]

Creating a private school tournament would destroy high school hockey.

Privates would just go to 20 minute periods, extended schedules, start giving out full athletic scholarships. Think about a ~50 game season of elite level hockey that you don't have to go to boarding school or live with a host family to do. Plus you can get an education at elite institutions like BSM, HM, Breck, STAA, CDH etc.

What are some of the biggest reasons that kids don't go out of state to play juniors/AAA etc early? I'd say it's because the competition is reasonably good in Minnesota high school hockey and because moving away from all your family and friends at the age of 15/16 can be an intimidating and scary thing to do for a teenager.

Why would you do anything to make those two hurdles easier to jump over if you want to keep quality kids in the system here? Look at New England preps like Avon Old Farms, Salisbury, N&G, Kent School etc and think about if that's what you want.

IMHO We already have the New England preps here and they're being allowed to compete in the MSHSL unfairly. At least SSM is honest about what they're doing and this year THEY couldn't beat you guys. At least you got to see what it feels like to win a fair fight.

A private school tounament didn't destroy high school hockey in the past and it wouldn't destroy it now.

[thestickler07]

IMHO We already have the New England preps here and they're being allowed to compete in the MSHSL unfairly. At least SSM is honest about what they're doing and this year THEY couldn't beat you guys. At least you got to see what it feels like to win a fair fight.

A private school tounament didn't destroy high school hockey in the past and it wouldn't destroy it now.

Bolded is a complete joke. Trying to draw ignorant parallels isn't going to fly here.

High school hockey in MN would be watered down big time, if not outright killed if privates were booted. Of all MSHSL sports to kick privates out of hockey would be the worst.

Our model of youth hockey development in the 15-18 age group is already drastically different than just about everywhere else in the country. The stupidest thing you could do is take concrete steps to ensure a viable high level alternative could take hold.

Longer seasons, better coaching, athletic scholarships, a lot more visibility for college scouting with the centralized location of private schools.

Yea kicking out privates sounds like a great idea... Talk about cutting off your nose to spit your face.

[stpaul]

IMHO We already have the New England preps here and they're being allowed to compete in the MSHSL unfairly. At least SSM is honest about what they're doing and this year THEY couldn't beat you guys. At least you got to see what it feels like to win a fair fight.

A private school tournament didn't destroy high school hockey in the past and it wouldn't destroy it now.

You can't compare 1960s high school athletics with today. Stickler is right. If you booted the private schools, why wouldn't they do exactly as he suggests. 50 game seasons, open recruiting, athletics scholarships, National tournaments. A promise of a big advantage for top players who want to play in college.

Ohio schools will vote in May whether or not to go to separate tournaments. That same vote failed twice before - once in the 90s and again 9 yrs. ago. They have a much more lopsided dominance by private schools than Minnesota. Private schools dominate State Championships in all sports, including Football, which the major sport in Ohio. Those opposed fear the same thing. They worry that private schools will go to recruiting, scholarships, etc. there too. The OHSAA, just like the MSHSL, relies on State Tournament income for almost all of its revenue and does not want to split its tournaments into private and public. They know it will diminish attendance, sponsorships and TV audiences.

[HShockeywatcher]

Here we go again!
Exhibit A: Check the minnhock archives at http://www.minnhock.com/archives.htm and go to boys hockey section scores and check the section 5a (pre 2008)/section 4a (post 2008) section tournament seeds and results. Shame on you.

From About MSHSL: "The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Don't tell me I should be happy with the status quo.

Are you really using one section to make a point about all private schools?

Define "equitable and uniform opportunities" please.

No, I don't think you should be happy with the status quo, that's what I've been saying for 3/4 of this thread.
My opinion is that you [me, and everybody else] should be totally unhappy with the status quo. But instead of whining about the status quo, my opinion is that we should do what we can to fix the different reasons people are leaving. Many people who end up at privates would've anyway, but many also wouldn't have. This "problem" wouldn't exist if those specific students weren't leaving. It would also exist less if more of those who are still there were participating in extra-curricular activities or if there was more subsidized participation in extra-curricular activities.

But hey, if you want all of the good players to end up at private schools on actual athletic scholarships and all of the public schools to legitimately be "community programs" then by all means, go for it. I don't think anyone, on either "side" of the discussion, actually wants what you're proposing.
I know I don't for my alma mater and I doubt those at Hill do either. They are both academic institutions first who happen to have good hockey programs. A switch to focusing on any particular sport is not what most of the institutions want to do to stay afloat. It'd be bad news all around for everyone.

[Bonehead]

IMHO We already have the New England preps here and they're being allowed to compete in the MSHSL unfairly. At least SSM is honest about what they're doing and this year THEY couldn't beat you guys. At least you got to see what it feels like to win a fair fight.

A private school tounament didn't destroy high school hockey in the past and it wouldn't destroy it now.

Bolded is a complete joke. Trying to draw ignorant parallels isn't going to fly here.

High school hockey in MN would be watered down big time, if not outright killed if privates were booted. Of all MSHSL sports to kick privates out of hockey would be the worst.

Our model of youth hockey development in the 15-18 age group is already drastically different than just about everywhere else in the country. The stupidest thing you could do is take concrete steps to ensure a viable high level alternative could take hold.

Longer seasons, better coaching, athletic scholarships, a lot more visibility for college scouting with the centralized location of private schools.

Yea kicking out privates sounds like a great idea... Talk about cutting off your nose to spit your face.

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

I'm not in the kick 'em out camp. But I'm not in the leave 'em alone and quit whining camp either. And I'm definitely not in the public schools suck so get over it camp.

[HShockeywatcher]

IMHO We already have the New England preps here and they're being allowed to compete in the MSHSL unfairly. At least SSM is honest about what they're doing and this year THEY couldn't beat you guys. At least you got to see what it feels like to win a fair fight.

A private school tounament didn't destroy high school hockey in the past and it wouldn't destroy it now.

Bolded is a complete joke. Trying to draw ignorant parallels isn't going to fly here.

High school hockey in MN would be watered down big time, if not outright killed if privates were booted. Of all MSHSL sports to kick privates out of hockey would be the worst.

Our model of youth hockey development in the 15-18 age group is already drastically different than just about everywhere else in the country. The stupidest thing you could do is take concrete steps to ensure a viable high level alternative could take hold.

Longer seasons, better coaching, athletic scholarships, a lot more visibility for college scouting with the centralized location of private schools.

Yea kicking out privates sounds like a great idea... Talk about cutting off your nose to spit your face.

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

I'm not in the kick 'em out camp. But I'm not in the leave 'em alone and quit whining camp either. And I'm definitely not in the public schools suck so get over it camp.

It also seems you're not in the the "let's improve the public systems so less kids leave" camp either. So what camp are you in?

[Bonehead]

Here we go again!
Exhibit A: Check the minnhock archives at http://www.minnhock.com/archives.htm and go to boys hockey section scores and check the section 5a (pre 2008)/section 4a (post 2008) section tournament seeds and results. Shame on you.

From About MSHSL: "The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Don't tell me I should be happy with the status quo.

Are you really using one section to make a point about all private schools?

If I give you none you say I'm making it up. I'm not making it up.

Define "equitable and uniform opportunities" please. I wish you wouldn't do that Clinton thing. Ask the MSHSL. They wrote it.

No, I don't think you should be happy with the status quo, that's what I've been saying for 3/4 of this thread.
My opinion is that you [me, and everybody else] should be totally unhappy with the status quo. But instead of whining about the status quo, my opinion is that we should do what we can to fix the different reasons people are leaving. Many people who end up at privates would've anyway, but many also wouldn't have. This "problem" wouldn't exist if those specific students weren't leaving. It would also exist less if more of those who are still there were participating in extra-curricular activities or if there was more subsidized participation in extra-curricular activities.

We agree on the above.

But hey, if you want all of the good players to end up at private schools on actual athletic scholarships and all of the public schools to legitimately be "community programs" then by all means, go for it. I don't think anyone, on either "side" of the discussion, actually wants what you're proposing. What did I propose again? I brought up that 2 private schools beat an elite national program in the same year. That seems...fortunate. You and stickler saying that it's not happening doesn't mean it's not happening.
I know I don't for my alma mater and I doubt those at Hill do either. They are both academic institutions first who happen to have good hockey programs. A switch to focusing on any particular sport is not what most of the institutions want to do to stay afloat. It'd be bad news all around for everyone.

[Bonehead]

Bolded is a complete joke. Trying to draw ignorant parallels isn't going to fly here.

High school hockey in MN would be watered down big time, if not outright killed if privates were booted. Of all MSHSL sports to kick privates out of hockey would be the worst.

Our model of youth hockey development in the 15-18 age group is already drastically different than just about everywhere else in the country. The stupidest thing you could do is take concrete steps to ensure a viable high level alternative could take hold.

Longer seasons, better coaching, athletic scholarships, a lot more visibility for college scouting with the centralized location of private schools.

Yea kicking out privates sounds like a great idea... Talk about cutting off your nose to spit your face.

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

I'm not in the kick 'em out camp. But I'm not in the leave 'em alone and quit whining camp either. And I'm definitely not in the public schools suck so get over it camp.

It also seems you're not in the the "let's improve the public systems so less kids leave" camp either. So what camp are you in?

Hey, we're in Minnesota here. We all want the best public schools!
I think you might be in the "Edina is the only public school that knows what we're doing camp." But that would be be snarky, wouldn't it?

[thestickler07]

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

What did you even say here?

If the MSHSL invited a prep school environment by kicking out private schools it would be disastrous for high school hockey in the state.

[Bonehead]

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

What did you even say here?

If the MSHSL invited a prep school environment by kicking out private schools it would be disastrous for high school hockey in the state.

I'm saying that right now we seem to have a 'semi-prep' environment in this state (public and private) and the genie is already out of the bottle. Kids are hockey shopping. David Backes and Ben Hanowski are becoming dinosaurs.