KRACH Computer Rankings - Updated 03/10 FINAL

[alcloseshaver]

Thanks, My experience is with the QRF used for alot of sections in other sports. This ranking just doesn't pass the eye test with EGF in top ten?
There are plenty of rankings to look at on this site and make for good chatter. I only discovered this site last year as the kids and teams I follow started playing HS hockey. Good stuff and humor.

[HShockeywatcher]

Thanks, My experience is with the QRF used for alot of sections in other sports. This ranking just doesn't pass the eye test with EGF in top ten?
There are plenty of rankings to look at on this site and make for good chatter. I only discovered this site last year as the kids and teams I follow started playing HS hockey. Good stuff and humor.

Pretty sure every section in the state has the option of using the QRF for section seeding in place of coaches voting. But it is a choice.

There are many reasons for using it, but my guess is that most in hockey won't use it.

[alcloseshaver]

Yes, It seems as if Hockey uses the QRF less then most sports. I'm sure QRF is available to the coaches as they do the seeding meetings.

[goldy313]

Hockey generally as lots of inter section games so coaches have a better feel for seeding, having only 2 clases also helps. Some football sections have very few inter section games, for example no team in 1AAAA played more than 2 section teams.

[alcloseshaver]

Goldy, That makes sense, Some NW suburban FB teams were in sections with other conferences that they did not play and were seeded lower and still went to section finals and even won their sections. The first hockey QRF rating comes out on 12-31. Let the grind of conference play begin...

[Mr Hockey]

I like St Francis as much as the next guy but to have them rated in the top 40 ahead of Cloquet, Grand Rapids, Forest Lake, and Andover is a joke!!! How much will they fall after losing 6-5 to Sartell?

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 12/30

[MHGr8ness]

I haven't looked at this until now. I think it's looks very accurate! New rankings and systems are always interesting. After quick glances in both classes I think Tartan might be a bit high (8). I also would slide Warroad up to about 8 in class A.

[Bonehead]

It's fun to watch the way this system starts to converge with the human factor polls as the season progresses.

I also like seeing a completely unbiased view that updates pretty dang quick!

Thanks!

[D3Referee]

12/31/2012

Most accurate looking rank I have seen anywhere this season. I suspect things will end up right in this wheelouse
http://www.bgoski.com/b/KRACH_AA.htm

... UNTIL Wayzata beats Hill on jan 12 ... that should be the final tweak

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 01/01

[ghshockeyfan]

12/31/2012

Most accurate looking rank I have seen anywhere this season. I suspect things will end up right in this wheelouse
http://www.bgoski.com/b/KRACH_AA.htm

... UNTIL Wayzata beats Hill on jan 12 ... that should be the final tweak

I'll be looking forward to see how the outcome of the Wayzata/Hill game impacts things... Should be interesting - and also helps to hear this sort of fedback from those that know the boys HS game so I know if KRACH is generally tracking with expert expectations...

[ghshockeyfan]

I haven't looked at this until now. I think it's looks very accurate! New rankings and systems are always interesting. After quick glances in both classes I think Tartan might be a bit high (8). I also would slide Warroad up to about 8 in class A.

I've heard a couple people agree about Tartan and Warroad. It will be interesting to see if the next few games address any of this.

[ghshockeyfan]

Goldy, That makes sense, Some NW suburban FB teams were in sections with other conferences that they did not play and were seeded lower and still went to section finals and even won their sections. The first hockey QRF rating comes out on 12-31. Let the grind of conference play begin...

QRF is now posted:

Overall:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 9&class=-2
vs.
KRACH:
http://www.bgoski.com/b/KRACH_OA.htm

AA:
QRF:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 09&class=3
vs.
KRACH:
http://www.bgoski.com/b/KRACH_AA.htm

A:
QRF:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 09&class=2
vs.
KRACH:
http://www.bgoski.com/b/KRACH_A.htm

I'd be curious to hear any comparison comments when looking at QRF & KRACH.

To lead-off - it appears that Tartan is down far lower in QRF vs KRACH as some have suggested they should be in earlier posts.

[goldy313]

KRACH is missing some game, Lourdes is 7-2, not 5-1.

[alcloseshaver]

As stated earlier the QRF looks to a clearly more accurate reflection of rankings.
Example most obvious is Krach has EGF #8 and QRF has them #26 where they possibly should be, same with Lourdes being in the top ten in the Krach. There are probably more examples to be found in comparing the 2. It is obviously wrong to have them that high in the Krach and would be interested in how the formuls can justify it. Clearly the QRF takes into account what class your in and weighs it stronger. I'm sticking by the QRF

[ghshockeyfan]

KRACH is missing some game, Lourdes is 7-2, not 5-1.

Thanks for posting this. I took a quick look and here's what I found...

This may be due to KRACH only counting the MSHSL team games. I believe they had at least two games against WI teams (the last two games going 1-1). The hub shows their record at 6-2, and subtracting off those last two non-MSHSL games would make their KRACH record 5-1:

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/schedule/tea ... ason=79765

[almostashappy]

As stated earlier the QRF looks to a clearly more accurate reflection of rankings.
Example most obvious is Krach has EGF #8 and QRF has them #26 where they possibly should be, same with Lourdes being in the top ten in the Krach. There are probably more examples to be found in comparing the 2. It is obviously wrong to have them that high in the Krach and would be interested in how the formuls can justify it. Clearly the QRF takes into account what class your in and weighs it stronger. I'm sticking by the QRF

Is there any other poll (human or computer) that has Jefferson in the Top 10, much less #4? Curious how that outcome was generated.

[ghshockeyfan]

As stated earlier the QRF looks to a clearly more accurate reflection of rankings.
Example most obvious is Krach has EGF #8 and QRF has them #26 where they possibly should be, same with Lourdes being in the top ten in the Krach. There are probably more examples to be found in comparing the 2. It is obviously wrong to have them that high in the Krach and would be interested in how the formuls can justify it. Clearly the QRF takes into account what class your in and weighs it stronger. I'm sticking by the QRF

Thanks for the insight. I don't believe QRF weights the class anymore like they did a few years back. It could be that QRF does look at score differential though, I'm not certain as to that algorithm as I know it evolved. I can say that KRACH only looks at the MSHSL games played - and EGF is doing pretty well in that department. I'll be interested to see how this plays out as more games are played by EGF against MSHSL teams.

I was also curious about thoughts on the top 10 per class. I don't know enough about the boys game to know if any of this is way off (but have heard about Tartan and EGF potentially being too high):


QRF:
1 Wayzata (10-1) 113.5
2 Edina (10-2) 107.4
3 Hill-Murray (10-1-1) 105.5
4 Bloomington Jefferson (7-3) 90.6
5 Duluth East (6-3) 90.0
6 Eagan (8-2-1) 88.2
7 Benilde-St. Margaret's (8-3) 82.7
8 Centennial (8-3) 78.8
9 Mounds View (7-1-2) 78.4
10 Minnetonka (8-3-1) 77.1

KRACH:
1 Hill-Murray (2) 10-1-1 815.084 6 6 5 2 3 2
2 Wayzata (3) 10-1-0 525.698 11 12 9 5 4 3
3 Edina (1) 10-2-0 453.158 2 2 2 1 1 1
4 Eagan (7) 8-2-1 212.344 8 10 10 10 7 7
5 Minnetonka (6) 8-3-1 174.204 4 4 3 3 2 6
6 Benilde-St. Margaret's (5) 8-3-0 172.110 1 1 1 4 6 5
7 Duluth East (9) 6-3-0 137.331 5 5 4 6 9 9
8 Tartan 9-1-0 101.793
9 Centennial (8) 8-3-0 98.729 19 17 8 8
10 Blaine (4) 6-3-1 98.146


QRF:
1 St. Thomas Academy (8-1-1) 95.4
2 Hermantown (8-1-1) 70.4
3 Mankato West (11-2) 68.3
4 East Grand Forks (9-0-2) 65.9
5 Totino-Grace (6-1-1) 65.8
6 Princeton (10-2) 64.6
7 Duluth Marshall (7-4) 62.7
8 Duluth Denfeld (9-4) 58.6
9 Rochester Lourdes (7-2) 57.9
10 Northfield (8-3) 57.2

KRACH:
1 St. Thomas Academy (1) 8-1-1 796.276 1 1 1 1 1 1
2 East Grand Forks (3) 5-0-1 159.252 9 9 6 5 4 3
3 Rochester Lourdes (6) 5-1-0 149.420 8 8 9 7 6 6
4 Breck (4) 5-2-1 120.077 2 2 3 4 5 4
5 Hermantown (5) 8-1-1 117.886 3 3 2 2 2 5
6 Totino-Grace (2) 6-1-1 75.728 5 6 4 3 3 2
7 Duluth Marshall (7) 5-3-0 62.831 4 4 5 6 7 7
8 Mankato West (16) 10-1-0 54.627 19 16
9 St. Cloud Cathedral (10) 8-4-0 52.440 6 5 7 8 8 10
10 Princeton (9) 10-2-0 48.091

[goldy313]

Krach has LaCrescent at 1-1 so it makes sense they only count games against Minnesota teams however......
Krach has Lourdes #3, they lost to Northland Pines, WI 4-2, New Ulm lost to them 5-2. Lourdes beat Ashwabenon WI 1-0, Dodge County tied them 3-3. Throw in those results and what happens?

[ghshockeyfan]

Krach has LaCrescent at 1-1 so it makes sense they only count games against Minnesota teams however......
Krach has Lourdes #3, they lost to Northland Pines, WI 4-2, New Ulm lost to them 5-2. Lourdes beat Ashwabenon WI 1-0, Dodge County tied them 3-3. Throw in those results and what happens?

I think it would be best to include all non-MN games at that point instead of a small subset only. Impact? I can't say. Maybe someone with one of the other computer rankings can weigh in on this if they factor these other non-MN scores in - or maybe, if so, it's obvious by looking at such a ranking.

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 01/03 7PM - LPH Update

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 01/04 AM

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 01/05 AM

[ghshockeyfan]

Updated 01/06