Junior Player Transfer Rule

[gopherstate5]

There's a junior player that doesn't get varsity playing time due to up-and-coming younger kids making the squad. This junior wants to play high school hockey and could probably make several MN teams in the metro area. I understand that the transfer rules indicate that if a player transfers to another school the kid would have to play JV. Sounds like the rule blocks the move for a Junior ( a senior next year). Is there any wiggle room around the transfer rules?

[pipersniper12]

Yeah, it's called work your a$$ off and improve yourself the best you can prior to next season and tryout again.

[Zamman]

There's a junior player that doesn't get varsity playing time due to up-and-coming younger kids making the squad. This junior wants to play high school hockey and could probably make several MN teams in the metro area. I understand that the transfer rules indicate that if a player transfers to another school the kid would have to play JV. Sounds like the rule blocks the move for a Junior ( a senior next year). Is there any wiggle room around the transfer rules?

Another option is to move to that school district...easiest way, if Hockey is most important.

[BodyShots]

Or find a family member who lives in another district and go live with her. She might have to adopt you for a couple of months though.

Or, if you are currently at a private school. Just say you can't afford it any more and claim financial hardship.

Or, have daddy claim lawsuit against the MSHSL if they don't allow it.

[Tenoverpar]

It is an interesting question the poster asks...seems like a situation that many are in as year after year Seniors are let go for the perennial freshmen who are the future...

[Bluewhitefan]

Yeah, it's called work your a$$ off and improve yourself the best you can prior to next season and tryout again.

Are you implying that hard work will get you that varsity spot? Please wake up. Take a look at some of the varsity rosters around town and you'll see all kinds of kids that got on teams for reasons other than "hard work." To deny it, is, in fact, denial.

[pipersniper12]

Yeah, it's called work your a$$ off and improve yourself the best you can prior to next season and tryout again.

Are you implying that hard work will get you that varsity spot? Please wake up. Take a look at some of the varsity rosters around town and you'll see all kinds of kids that got on teams for reasons other than "hard work." To deny it, is, in fact, denial.

Hard work is not the only factor in making the varsity squad, but it is indeed going to help the player's chances of making the team.
Sounds like a personal problem. Too bad you didn't teach your child better work ethic and pass on better genetics.
Hockey politics is always the easy answer as to why a kid doesn't make the team. Get over it!!
Junior Gold, swimming and band are other options for a hockey player who can't make the cut.

[observer]

Nice reply pipersniper.

95% of all 9th graders should play bantam.

[Pioneerprideguy]

I think the player should stay at the private school and get a good education or return to his public school and say things didn't work out well because of politics.

[deacon64]

Move to Class A programs, we need players! Welcome with open arms.

[Bluewhitefan]

Yeah, it's called work your a$$ off and improve yourself the best you can prior to next season and tryout again.

Are you implying that hard work will get you that varsity spot? Please wake up. Take a look at some of the varsity rosters around town and you'll see all kinds of kids that got on teams for reasons other than "hard work." To deny it, is, in fact, denial.

Hard work is not the only factor in making the varsity squad, but it is indeed going to help the player's chances of making the team.
Sounds like a personal problem. Too bad you didn't teach your child better work ethic and pass on better genetics.
Hockey politics is always the easy answer as to why a kid doesn't make the team. Get over it!!
Junior Gold, swimming and band are other options for a hockey player who can't make the cut.

I'm glad you're so knowledgeable abour what it takes to make the varsity team in your town. "Work Harder" is always the a-hole response from the idiots that benefit from the politics. I'm glad your kid has such great work-ethic and that you're likely to break your nose when the head varisty coach turns a corner.

[blindref]

I think the player should stay at the private school and get a good education or return to his public school and say things didn't work out well because of politics.

Maybe he'll get a great education at the public school instead just a good one at the private school.

[MHL All-Star]

I always thought about transferring schools after I got cut from Benilde's hockey program. Wanted to go to Providence Academy for many other reasons besides hockey, but never did. Instead I stayed at BSM and focused on sports I was better, but I was still playing hockey and honestly right now playing junior gold A with all of your friends is so much better than playing on a Varsity or JV team.
"Fly or Die"

[wingman]

All jokes aside for one minute and consider these facts:
1.) the coach cut you or is not playing you as a Junior
2.) MSHSL makes $6 to $8 per fan at all games (my point it is a money making venture for the schools and the league to the tune of $5000-$10,000 on any given night-except playoffs and the State toruney then its huge gigantic $$$$$$ bucks). This promotes putting the best kid on the team. And of course every coach will differ on this paticular point out if the same group of kids.
3.) You have to move or get the 'waiver'...which lets face it, the purpose the MSHSL is making of this is no free agency, so the rule apllies fairly to those that switch for the wrong reason...but in this case it is for the right reason and the MSHSL won't capitulate...even though a coach has made a statment..don't want you...(can you hear the MSHSL right now...ooooo but all the kids that will try this for the wrong reasons makes it too tough on us to allow it for the right reason...how pathetic)
So the MSHSL is acting completely hypocritical stating they want a kid to stay for the school' yet it is ok for the coach to cut him and not let him 'participate' by virtue of their rules in this situation. Lets face it, it's about sportsmanship and participation in extracuricular activities that the MSHSL warrants...or is it really...and all the while they will take the ever increasing gate reciept for the League which promotes and handcuffs a team to put the best players on the ice, which might just be a 9th grader instead of that junior? (for instance what if it is a 'rebuilding year' the coach has decided?) And by the way why are you rebuilding? So you can chase the almighty buck for your school!!!!! I'm seriously OK with this, but then why handcuff the kid? Not really sure if thats the smartest way to promote participation, fairness, and blah, blah, blah!
Takes one second for all of us to understand, if the kid wants to 'participate' and his coach cuts him....I ask WHY SHOULDN'T HE BE ALLOWED TO SWITCH TO A TEAM THAT WANTS HIM WITHOUT SITTING OUT??? Seriously it is so easy to document and provide opportunity to more 'released' free agents. The present MSHSL rule limits and restricts a kid from this opportiuunity unfairly and ruthlessley. It is perfectly legitimate to allow a free agent in the professional ranks to find a team he or she can florish under when released from his former team...and yes it is about money at both...so why not admit it and do whats right for the 'kid'...let him pursue his dream of participation! There is not one reasonable arguement from the MSHSL for the Junior who gets cut to lock him to his former team --- Not one!
In all seriousness if you don't want him, why handcuff him...and please no Junior Gold discusions that is not my point at all!

[MNHockeyFan]

I think wingman is on to something. Would like to hear any arguments against it.

[observer]

I agree.

The ones for the wrong reason, no problemo.

For the right reason, never.

[Roy01]

My older brother was cut from our hometown team his junior year of high school. He had transferred into Minneapolis - Edison just before the '96 - '97 season got underway to continue playing hockey. Obviously transfer rules weren't so regulated at that time, and it was a family move either way, but I completely agree that if a player wants to continue playing and they are cut they should not be penalized because of that. There should be exception to the rule in these instances.

[almostashappy]

All jokes aside for one minute and consider these facts:
1.) the coach cut you or is not playing you as a Junior

This is a critical either/or statement. It's one thing if a player is cut as a junior and wants to try somewhere else senior year, and transfers in September. Quite another if he tries out for his original team senior year, and then is cut. I appreciate the free agent/waivers analogy for pro sports, but it's silly to imagine a kid getting cut from one team, then trying to "sign-up" as a free agent elsewhere. Is the coach on that other team going to cut a kid who had already made the roster on his team, just to make room? Is the kid that got cut in November going to change schools mid-semester, just to play hockey? Ok, silly question...of course some would. But should we encourage that behavior?

2.) MSHSL makes $6 to $8 per fan at all games (my point it is a money making venture for the schools and the league to the tune of $5000-$10,000 on any given night-except playoffs and the State toruney then its huge gigantic $$$$$$ bucks). This promotes putting the best kid on the team. And of course every coach will differ on this paticular point out if the same group of kids.

MSHSL doesn't start collecting gate revenue until sections start. And the admission fees during sections are similar to regular season. Regular season revenue for the home team's school might or might not cover what they spend on coach salaries and practice ice.

That the MSHSL milks a cash cow during The Tourney (TM) isn't in dispute. I'm sure that the profits go a long ways towards the costs of supporting the rest of their sanctioned activities. But this isn't that different from one schools football gate revenue being used to support their other programs.

3.) You have to move or get the 'waiver'...which lets face it, the purpose the MSHSL is making of this is no free agency, so the rule apllies fairly to those that switch for the wrong reason...but in this case it is for the right reason and the MSHSL won't capitulate...even though a coach has made a statment..don't want you...(can you hear the MSHSL right now...ooooo but all the kids that will try this for the wrong reasons makes it too tough on us to allow it for the right reason...how pathetic)

I'm going out on a limb here and support the notion that high school hockey is an extra-curricular activity. And that it's hard for me to endorse the argument that there can be a "right reason" to transfer to a different high school, just to play hockey. I know why it's done, and can see the perspective of a kid who thinks that playing in a bad program would limit their chances of going pro/playing in the USHL/going to The Tourney (TM). But does this apply if a kid isn't good enough to make the varsity as a senior at his home school? Even if that home school is Edina/HM/insert top-5 team here?

Playing sports is supposed to teach you valuable life lessons. Maybe this is one of them...if you want to play hockey, but aren't good enough for varsity, then play Junior Gold for the love of the game. And make the same transition that everyone else has to make at some point in their career.

So the MSHSL is acting completely hypocritical stating they want a kid to stay for the school' yet it is ok for the coach to cut him and not let him 'participate' by virtue of their rules in this situation. Lets face it, it's about sportsmanship and participation in extracuricular activities that the MSHSL warrants...or is it really...and all the while they will take the ever increasing gate reciept for the League which promotes and handcuffs a team to put the best players on the ice, which might just be a 9th grader instead of that junior? (for instance what if it is a 'rebuilding year' the coach has decided?) And by the way why are you rebuilding? So you can chase the almighty buck for your school!!!!! I'm seriously OK with this, but then why handcuff the kid? Not really sure if thats the smartest way to promote participation, fairness, and blah, blah, blah!

I think that coaches cut seniors and "rebuild" with freshman because they want to win, and they want to keep their jobs. It's not about bringing in fans and making money for the schools/MSHSL.

Takes one second for all of us to understand, if the kid wants to 'participate' and his coach cuts him....I ask WHY SHOULDN'T HE BE ALLOWED TO SWITCH TO A TEAM THAT WANTS HIM WITHOUT SITTING OUT??? Seriously it is so easy to document and provide opportunity to more 'released' free agents. The present MSHSL rule limits and restricts a kid from this opportiuunity unfairly and ruthlessley. It is perfectly legitimate to allow a free agent in the professional ranks to find a team he or she can florish under when released from his former team...and yes it is about money at both...so why not admit it and do whats right for the 'kid'...let him pursue his dream of participation! There is not one reasonable arguement from the MSHSL for the Junior who gets cut to lock him to his former team --- Not one!
In all seriousness if you don't want him, why handcuff him...and please no Junior Gold discusions that is not my point at all!

I would be willing to consider a limited transfer rule "waiver" for underclassmen who are cut from their high school program as juniors or sophomores...but only for the following year(s), and only if they transfer to the targeted school before the season starts.

[mulefarm]

What about the kid that got cut because of the free agent kid? What do you tell him? Eventually through these free agents, the trickle down effect, some kids will be cut from HS hockey. Everybody eventually gets cut and their hockey career is done, some at squirts, all the way through the NHL.

[HShockeywatcher]

I agree.

The ones for the wrong reason, no problemo.

For the right reason, never.

I'm curious what the "right reason" is. Not being good at a sport is a good rational for switching schools?

I'm not sold that transferring schools because as a student-athlete you wouldn't be a good enough athlete to make a team later on in your career is justifiable. Sending the wrong message to people in general, in my opinion.
I also don't understand the rational; why not play Junior Gold with your friends instead of transferring to a different school?

Ultimately, it's unfortunately the nature of hockey. Limited roster spots, in a sport with ice time. A 50-athlete roster wouldn't make sense to have more than 20 guys not play just so they could "be on the team."

[SWPrez]

This topic always interests me. There are right and wrong reasons. Loading up a team and some of the 'recruiting' behind the scenes is wrong.

I was cut my junior year of high school. Played Junior gold. My dream from when I was a little guy was to play high school hockey - for the love of the game - my babysitter as a kid was Brian Burke and we would go watch him play when Braemar still had chicken wire. I transferred to a private and played high school my senior year being one of the leaders on a weak "Class A" type of team that ended up ranked in the top 20 at the end of the year. Went on to play four years of D3 college hockey. I wouldn't have had that opportunity in today's world.

My brother was cut as a junior and transferred to another school. Went on to lead his team to the state tourney, was on the all-state tourney team, and drafted by the NHL. Played juniors, but all they wanted him to do was fight every game....wasn't fun anymore and he moved on. He wouldn't have had these opportunities in today's world.

Minnesota high school hockey does a great disservice to kids that just want to play the game at a higher level - or kids that need to find a different avenue to play due to political promises or even coaching issues.

Minnesota prides itself on trying to develop players - but sets up rules that destroy late bloomers, out of favor kids, political casualties, etc. from getting a shot at moving to a higher level and achieving their dream - whatever that is.

The current rule favors kids that 1) their parents divorce, 2) their parents move, or 3) their parents are so rich that they have two addresses and they just flip to the other one depending on what school they want to attend.

I think the rule should be fine tuned to prevent the team loading that is out there, but if the move is to give a kid an opportunity to play high school hockey....let them go.

[HShockeywatcher]

I think the rule should be fine tuned to prevent the team loading that is out there, but if the move is to give a kid an opportunity to play high school hockey....let them go.

What if this kid transferring to school B ends up making it so a player (in a similar situation as this kid) at school B now doesn't get to play?

How do you write this rule; if the varsity coach signs off saying that you wouldn't make the team because of the depth chart and the new school's varsity coach says he will make the team, it is okay?
Is this okay with any sport?
Are there any lines to be drawn?

I am more playing devil's advocate for discussion, not saying I disagree.
While I do understand the points, I don't like the idea of rules being made to allow students to let sports dictate their academics. I would add that I'm guessing that in the vast majority (although maybe not all) situations like this, the player/parents could tell this would happen. So the case could then be made that he should've simply made the switch earlier.

Is economic change still a legitimate reason to transfer to/from private without moving?

[SWPrez]

I am an advocate of scrapping the rule completely. Yes, some teams will "load up" (but aren't they doing that already today?), but as you point out, academics and athletics should not be tied to each other.

[HShockeywatcher]

I am an advocate of scrapping the rule completely. Yes, some teams will "load up" (but aren't they doing that already today?), but as you point out, academics and athletics should not be tied to each other.

Students can transfer anywhere (that has room) every year for any reason?

I think it'd be interesting, although in general I'm not an advocate of that, although not for sports.

[blindref]

Just curious if this transfer/jv thing applies to all extra curricular activities.

If a kid is a good drummer, actor, dance line member, debater; do they have drop down to a "lesser " activity level for a year if they didn't move and open enroll at a new school?