Section realignment

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blueblood
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:36 am

Section realignment

Post by blueblood » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:57 am

MSHSL will conduct section realignment this year. With STA and Rogers opting up, what do you think the new sections will look like:

Will anyone be moved into Section 1?
Will STA be placed in Section 3 or 4?
What will happen to Section 7 and 8 with Rogers moving up?
Any other changes?

Tenoverpar
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:40 pm

alignment

Post by Tenoverpar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:22 pm

Rosemount to Section 1
STA to Section 4
CDH to Section 4
Benilde to Section 4
Holy Family to Section 4
Holy Angels to Section 4
SPA to section 4
Breck to section 4AA (move up)
Totino-Grace to 4AA (move up)
White Bear Lake to 7
Mounds View to 5
Stillwater to 3
Elk River to section 6
Roseville to 6
NSP to 3
SP Como 3
Prior Lake to 1
lakeville North or South to 2 (break them up)
Burnsville to 1
Woodbury or East Ridge to 2 (break them up)
Rogers to 5

Bonehead
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:48 am

Re: alignment

Post by Bonehead » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:28 pm

Tenoverpar wrote:Rosemount to Section 1
STA to Section 4
CDH to Section 4
Benilde to Section 4
Holy Family to Section 4
Holy Angels to Section 4
SPA to section 4
Breck to section 4AA (move up)
Totino-Grace to 4AA (move up)
:lol: What about Duluth Marshall?

grandmeadowhockeyfan
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:23 pm

What

Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:39 pm

Do you insider info or something that you
Have so many moves by so many teams. Breck
And Totino move up? Really!! On a cold day in
You know where!!

Tenoverpar
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:40 pm

Post by Tenoverpar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:18 pm

it's a fantasy draft grandmeadow...and Marshall stays up northeast because we couldn't possibly consider a team from Duluth leaving the confines of Amsoil prior to a trip to the X

almostashappy
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by almostashappy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:01 pm

blueblood wrote:MSHSL will conduct section realignment this year. With STA and Rogers opting up, what do you think the new sections will look like:

Will anyone be moved into Section 1?
Will STA be placed in Section 3 or 4?
What will happen to Section 7 and 8 with Rogers moving up?
Any other changes?
1AA (9 teams)
Burnsville High School
Lakeville North High School
Lakeville South High School
Owatonna High School
Prior Lake High School
Rochester John Marshall
Rochester Mayo High School
Coop: 234 "Dodge County Wildcats"
Coop: 490 "Winona Winhawks"

2AA (8 teams)
Academy of Holy Angels
Bloomington Jefferson High School
Bloomington Kennedy High School
Chanhassen High School
Eden Prairie High School
Edina High School
Holy Family Catholic High School
Shakopee High School

3AA (9 teams)
Apple Valley High School
Cretin-Derham Hall High School
Eagan High School
Eastview High School
Farmington High School
Hastings High School
Park High School
Rosemount High School
St. Thomas Academy

4AA (9 teams)
East Ridge High School
Hill-Murray School
North High School
Roseville Area High School
Stillwater Area High School
Tartan High School
White Bear Lake Area High School
Woodbury High School
Coop: 405 "Saint Paul Como Cougars"

5AA (9 teams)
Anoka High School
Blaine High School
Centennial High School
Champlin Park High School
Coon Rapids High School
Maple Grove High School
Rogers High School
Coop: 342 "Osseo H.S."
Coop: 345 "North Metro Stars"


6AA (9 teams...8 if/when Armstrong and Cooper go coop)
Benilde-St. Margaret's School
Hopkins High School
Minnetonka High School
Mounds View High School
Robbinsdale Armstrong High School
Robbinsdale Cooper High School
Wayzata High School
Coop: 296 "Minneapolis Novas"
Coop: 227 "Irondale Knights"


7AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Andover High School
Cambridge-Isanti High School
Duluth East High School
Forest Lake High School
Grand Rapids High School
Saint Francis High School
Saint Michael-Albertville H.S.
Coop: 103 "C-E-C Lumberjacks"
Coop: 146 "Elk River/Zimmerman"

8AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Bemidji High School
Buffalo High School
Moorhead High School
Roseau High School
Coop: 37 "Becker/Big Lake"
Coop: 60 "Brainerd/Pillager"
Coop: 306 "Monticello-Annandale-Maple Lak"
Coop: 350 "Northern Lakes Lightning"
Coop: 380 "River Lakes Stars"
Coop: 396 "Saint Cloud Tech"

east hockey
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Location: Proctor, MN

Post by east hockey » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:13 pm

Tenoverpar wrote:it's a fantasy draft grandmeadow...and Marshall stays up northeast because we couldn't possibly consider a team from Duluth leaving the confines of Amsoil prior to a trip to the X
Of course! How else could East get to the X so often?

But Marshall needs more help than "home ice". :mrgreen:

Lee
Last edited by east hockey on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Message Board arsonist since 2005
Egomaniac since 2006

clutterbuck22
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:28 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by clutterbuck22 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:14 pm

almostashappy wrote:
blueblood wrote:MSHSL will conduct section realignment this year. With STA and Rogers opting up, what do you think the new sections will look like:

Will anyone be moved into Section 1?
Will STA be placed in Section 3 or 4?
What will happen to Section 7 and 8 with Rogers moving up?
Any other changes?
1AA (9 teams)
Burnsville High School
Lakeville North High School
Lakeville South High School
Owatonna High School
Prior Lake High School
Rochester John Marshall
Rochester Mayo High School
Coop: 234 "Dodge County Wildcats"
Coop: 490 "Winona Winhawks"

2AA (8 teams)
Academy of Holy Angels
Bloomington Jefferson High School
Bloomington Kennedy High School
Chanhassen High School
Eden Prairie High School
Edina High School
Holy Family Catholic High School
Shakopee High School

3AA (9 teams)
Apple Valley High School
Cretin-Derham Hall High School
Eagan High School
Eastview High School
Farmington High School
Hastings High School
Park High School
Rosemount High School
St. Thomas Academy

4AA (9 teams)
East Ridge High School
Hill-Murray School
North High School
Roseville Area High School
Stillwater Area High School
Tartan High School
White Bear Lake Area High School
Woodbury High School
Coop: 405 "Saint Paul Como Cougars"

5AA (9 teams)
Anoka High School
Blaine High School
Centennial High School
Champlin Park High School
Coon Rapids High School
Maple Grove High School
Rogers High School
Coop: 342 "Osseo H.S."
Coop: 345 "North Metro Stars"


6AA (9 teams...8 if/when Armstrong and Cooper go coop)
Benilde-St. Margaret's School
Hopkins High School
Minnetonka High School
Mounds View High School
Robbinsdale Armstrong High School
Robbinsdale Cooper High School
Wayzata High School
Coop: 296 "Minneapolis Novas"
Coop: 227 "Irondale Knights"


7AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Andover High School
Cambridge-Isanti High School
Duluth East High School
Forest Lake High School
Grand Rapids High School
Saint Francis High School
Saint Michael-Albertville H.S.
Coop: 103 "C-E-C Lumberjacks"
Coop: 146 "Elk River/Zimmerman"

8AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Bemidji High School
Buffalo High School
Moorhead High School
Roseau High School
Coop: 37 "Becker/Big Lake"
Coop: 60 "Brainerd/Pillager"
Coop: 306 "Monticello-Annandale-Maple Lak"
Coop: 350 "Northern Lakes Lightning"
Coop: 380 "River Lakes Stars"
Coop: 396 "Saint Cloud Tech"
Forgot Century in Section 1, but otherwise that looks about right.

almostashappy
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by almostashappy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:18 pm

clutterbuck22 wrote: Forgot Century in Section 1, but otherwise that looks about right.
I was guessing/hoping that Century will drop under the A/AA cutoff and will decide not to opt up.

Gets a lot harder to strengthen 1AA if Century does stay AA...would probably need to leave PL or Burnsville in 2AA just to keep the headcounts comparable.
Last edited by almostashappy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gitter
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:20 pm

almostashappy wrote:
1AA (9 teams)
Burnsville High School
Lakeville North High School
Lakeville South High School
Owatonna High School
Prior Lake High School
Rochester John Marshall
Rochester Mayo High School
Coop: 234 "Dodge County Wildcats"
Coop: 490 "Winona Winhawks"

2AA (8 teams)
Academy of Holy Angels
Bloomington Jefferson High School
Bloomington Kennedy High School
Chanhassen High School
Eden Prairie High School
Edina High School
Holy Family Catholic High School
Shakopee High School

3AA (9 teams)
Apple Valley High School
Cretin-Derham Hall High School
Eagan High School
Eastview High School
Farmington High School
Hastings High School
Park High School
Rosemount High School
St. Thomas Academy

4AA (9 teams)
East Ridge High School
Hill-Murray School
North High School
Roseville Area High School
Stillwater Area High School
Tartan High School
White Bear Lake Area High School
Woodbury High School
Coop: 405 "Saint Paul Como Cougars"

5AA (9 teams)
Anoka High School
Blaine High School
Centennial High School
Champlin Park High School
Coon Rapids High School
Maple Grove High School
Rogers High School
Coop: 342 "Osseo H.S."
Coop: 345 "North Metro Stars"


6AA (9 teams...8 if/when Armstrong and Cooper go coop)
Benilde-St. Margaret's School
Hopkins High School
Minnetonka High School
Mounds View High School
Robbinsdale Armstrong High School
Robbinsdale Cooper High School
Wayzata High School
Coop: 296 "Minneapolis Novas"
Coop: 227 "Irondale Knights"


7AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Andover High School
Cambridge-Isanti High School
Duluth East High School
Forest Lake High School
Grand Rapids High School
Saint Francis High School
Saint Michael-Albertville H.S.
Coop: 103 "C-E-C Lumberjacks"
Coop: 146 "Elk River/Zimmerman"

8AA (9 teams) UNCHANGED
Bemidji High School
Buffalo High School
Moorhead High School
Roseau High School
Coop: 37 "Becker/Big Lake"
Coop: 60 "Brainerd/Pillager"
Coop: 306 "Monticello-Annandale-Maple Lak"
Coop: 350 "Northern Lakes Lightning"
Coop: 380 "River Lakes Stars"
Coop: 396 "Saint Cloud Tech"
That is a pretty good listing, which keeps the MSHSL geographic priority in somewhat order. It addresses the weakness in 1AA, with Prior Lake having some good youth teams on their way up and Burnsville usually producing teams that can compete on a yearly basis. It re-balances 6AA as best you can by taking EP out, while also bringing into play the rivalry that has been growing between EP and Edina which could then carry full force in section play.

One question - are we assuming that Rochester Century's enrollment will drop below the top 64? Or is that a foregone conclusion already?

BlueLineSpecial
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Location: RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!

Re: Section realignment

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:21 pm

almostashappy, do you really see Mounds View getting moved to 6AA? Hadn't heard or thought of that...

almostashappy
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by almostashappy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 pm

BlueLineSpecial wrote:almostashappy, do you really see Mounds View getting moved to 6AA? Hadn't heard or thought of that...
My original thought was to move MV to 5AA, as they are the school farthest west within the current 4AA (and I need to kick somebody out of 4AA to make room for Woodbury/East Ridge). But Rodgers opting up makes the numbers work in 5AA, and I needed to backfill the loss of EP and Holy Family in 6AA.

Moving both MV and Irondale to 6AA would preserve the geographic continuity that MSHSL loves to see.

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/googlemap_new.as ... &dclass=AA

Chalk_Talk
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:30 am

Post by Chalk_Talk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:36 pm

Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
Last edited by Chalk_Talk on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gitter
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:36 pm

almostashappy wrote:
BlueLineSpecial wrote:almostashappy, do you really see Mounds View getting moved to 6AA? Hadn't heard or thought of that...
My original thought was to move MV to 5AA, as they are the school farthest west within the current 4AA (and I need to kick somebody out of 4AA to make room for Woodbury/East Ridge). But Rodgers opting up makes the numbers work in 5AA, and I needed to backfill the loss of EP and Holy Family in 6AA.

Moving both MV and Irondale to 6AA would preserve the geographic continuity that MSHSL loves to see.

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/googlemap_new.as ... &dclass=AA
Seeing as 7 of 8 sections have 9 teams, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to have 1 section with 10 teams - Moundsview could always move to 5AA, leaving 6AA with 8 teams.

almostashappy
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Post by almostashappy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:44 pm

Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
Would you be happier if I suggested a need to strengthen the competitive balance of 1AA?

Year after year of either Lakeville North or Lakeville South going to State without much of a challenge from the rest of the Section gets old after a while. And, yes, you might say the same thing about the Moorhead/Roseau duopoly in 8AA, but it's easier to imagine a fix in 1AA based on what's on hand, geographically speaking.

gitter
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Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 pm

Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
I see what you are looking at, but getting into the consolation side of things is a tricky comparison. I suspect more than a handful of teams had high expectations at the tournament, and playing Day 2 at Mariucci instead of the Xcel can take the wind out of their sails, compounded with the prospect of playing the "traditional Section 1 team" and they just don't get excited to play it - which is probably why Section 1 has done "OK" record-wise at the Tourney the past few years.

The reality is, in the quarterfinals where it counts, more often than not, it's a warmup game for the team that draws them. Is that always the case? Of course not - look at DE last year. But to consistently get some parity from top to bottom in the quarterfinals, while achieving some sort of geographic continuity should be the goal of section alignment.

Chalk_Talk
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:30 am

Post by Chalk_Talk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:01 pm

gitter wrote:
Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
I see what you are looking at, but getting into the consolation side of things is a tricky comparison. I suspect more than a handful of teams had high expectations at the tournament, and playing Day 2 at Mariucci instead of the Xcel can take the wind out of their sails, compounded with the prospect of playing the "traditional Section 1 team" and they just don't get excited to play it - which is probably why Section 1 has done "OK" record-wise at the Tourney the past few years.

The reality is, in the quarterfinals where it counts, more often than not, it's a warmup game for the team that draws them. Is that always the case? Of course not - look at DE last year. But to consistently get some parity from top to bottom in the quarterfinals, while achieving some sort of geographic continuity should be the goal of section alignment.
Parity in the quaterfinals, they seed teams. If you look a back I believe 3 or so years ago every team that was seeded lost, parity?

almostashappy
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by almostashappy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:03 pm

gitter wrote: Seeing as 7 of 8 sections have 9 teams, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to have 1 section with 10 teams - Moundsview could always move to 5AA, leaving 6AA with 8 teams.
I'm assuming that there's a good chance that Cooper and Armstrong will coop...if not next year, then the year after. That would leave 6AA with 7 teams. But I suppose that another geographically-permissive option is to move Buffalo from 8AA to 6AA.

Is there's a reason not to consider shifting the North Metro Stars from 5AA down to 6AA?

Chalk_Talk
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:30 am

Post by Chalk_Talk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 pm

I'm not here to say how good 1 AA is.

All I'm trying to say is watch out for what you wish for. The next thing will be section 1 AA is too tough and kids will transfer to private schools to. HAHA

gitter
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 pm

Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:06 pm

Chalk_Talk wrote:
gitter wrote:
Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
I see what you are looking at, but getting into the consolation side of things is a tricky comparison. I suspect more than a handful of teams had high expectations at the tournament, and playing Day 2 at Mariucci instead of the Xcel can take the wind out of their sails, compounded with the prospect of playing the "traditional Section 1 team" and they just don't get excited to play it - which is probably why Section 1 has done "OK" record-wise at the Tourney the past few years.

The reality is, in the quarterfinals where it counts, more often than not, it's a warmup game for the team that draws them. Is that always the case? Of course not - look at DE last year. But to consistently get some parity from top to bottom in the quarterfinals, while achieving some sort of geographic continuity should be the goal of section alignment.
Parity in the quaterfinals, they seed teams. If you look a back I believe 3 or so years ago every team that was seeded lost, parity?
Don't bring other sections into your argument. Since 1995 Section 1 has advanced to the semifinals exactly 2 times. That is not parity.

gitter
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 pm

Re: Section realignment

Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:11 pm

almostashappy wrote:
gitter wrote: Seeing as 7 of 8 sections have 9 teams, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to have 1 section with 10 teams - Moundsview could always move to 5AA, leaving 6AA with 8 teams.
I'm assuming that there's a good chance that Cooper and Armstrong will coop...if not next year, then the year after. That would leave 6AA with 7 teams. But I suppose that another geographically-permissive option is to move Buffalo from 8AA to 6AA.

Is there's a reason not to consider shifting the North Metro Stars from 5AA down to 6AA?
The geographic argument could be made to move North Metro - they aren't far from Robbinsdale (6AA).

Chalk_Talk
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:30 am

Post by Chalk_Talk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:13 pm

gitter wrote:
Chalk_Talk wrote:
gitter wrote:
Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
I see what you are looking at, but getting into the consolation side of things is a tricky comparison. I suspect more than a handful of teams had high expectations at the tournament, and playing Day 2 at Mariucci instead of the Xcel can take the wind out of their sails, compounded with the prospect of playing the "traditional Section 1 team" and they just don't get excited to play it - which is probably why Section 1 has done "OK" record-wise at the Tourney the past few years.

The reality is, in the quarterfinals where it counts, more often than not, it's a warmup game for the team that draws them. Is that always the case? Of course not - look at DE last year. But to consistently get some parity from top to bottom in the quarterfinals, while achieving some sort of geographic continuity should be the goal of section alignment.
Parity in the quaterfinals, they seed teams. If you look a back I believe 3 or so years ago every team that was seeded lost, parity?
Don't bring other sections into your argument. Since 1995 Section 1 has advanced to the semifinals exactly 2 times. That is not parity.
Then they have parity with the other losers at state. Where did I bring other sections in, I can't compare, You make up the rules of discussing?

DubCHAGuy
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Post by DubCHAGuy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
7 wins at state since 2001. 5 of them by the Lakeville schools. I think adding Prior Lake or Hastings would be good and would make sense geographically. Burnsville is too much of a stretch for the MSHSL.

gitter
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Post by gitter » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:18 pm

DubCHAGuy wrote:
Chalk_Talk wrote:Why is everyone concerned about switching 1 AA? I understand it isn't the best hockey from top to bottom, some years are weak. Just a quick look back at the last 5 or 6 years, section 1 AA is close to 500 at the state tour. Without looking I bet there might be one or two sections that have done worse. Just putting it out there. Now let me have it. I have heard how bad 1 AA is.
7 wins at state since 2001. 5 of them by the Lakeville schools. I think adding Prior Lake or Hastings would be good and would make sense geographically. Burnsville is too much of a stretch for the MSHSL.
yeah, Chalk talk seems to think that is on par with all the other sections.

Chalk_Talk
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:30 am

Post by Chalk_Talk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:30 pm

I can't talk about other sections

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