New Playoff Format - Reseed 16 final teams

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TheHockeyDJ
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New Playoff Format - Reseed 16 final teams

Post by TheHockeyDJ » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:32 am

What are your thoughts on HS hockey going to a new playoff format where the 2 finalists from each section would be put in a group that would be seeded 1-16 for the section finals. I like the idea, I just wonder how it would work geographically. I would think there would have to be a few buildings selected as options for a home rink for the high seed due to attendance. For instance the metro schools would have the options of Mariucci and the Colesium. Teams like Moorhead, Roseau, Duluth and Grand Rapids could choose Amsoil Arena or the Sanford Center. I think have all the section finals on the Saturday before the state tournament. If Grand Rapids and Duluth East end up in the top 8, both could host a section final double header at Amsoil, maybe you'd have Duluth East vs. Roseau, and Grand Rapids vs. Centennial with a Noon and 2:30 start. At Mariucci possibly Edina vs. Moorhead and Burnsville vs. Elk River.
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old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:52 am

What about FL and Duluth East ?

allstatebenders
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Post by allstatebenders » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:14 am

Honestly a terrible idea.

sportstecminnesota
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Seeded tournament

Post by sportstecminnesota » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:19 am

I am not sure I follow your comments. Lou Nanne (sr) was on a talk show last week where he suggested a seeded state tournament much like the NCAA does. You would seed the top 16 teams in the state and they would compromise the state tournament for each class. The other big discussion is recruiting by private schools. The private schools are winning a disproportionate number of state hockey championships.

TheHockeyDJ
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Post by TheHockeyDJ » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:34 am

I should clarify, this isn't my idea, but is being given serious consideration by the mshsl.
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thestickler07
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Post by thestickler07 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:57 am

Love the idea.

Would get a lot of city/suburban teams outside the metro for playoffs and really diversify the matchups we get.

Seeing big schools like Eden Praire and Edina go up to places like Grand Rapids and Roseau for playoffs would be great for the game.

And it helps out a lot with getting the best teams in St. Paul for the actual state tournament.

Plus once you seed things 1-16 even if you have upsets reseeding wouldn't be controversial because you could just bump everyone up a slot if any team 1-8 got beat.

sportstecminnesota
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seeded tournament

Post by sportstecminnesota » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:14 am

Unfortunately the balance of hockey power is shifting to the western suburbs of the Twin Cities. It is unfair that many of the power house teams have to play each other in sectional play. Then at the state tournament you have blowouts in the first round. Changing the format would be tough but I would think the city of St Paul would enjoy a bigger tournament and getting more schools involved would financially help the MSHL.

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:56 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:I should clarify, this isn't my idea, but is being given serious consideration by the mshsl.
.
I doubt the mshsl is seriously considerating it. This would open up a can of worms for all the other activities. Most of the input comes from the coaches association and I haven't heard a thing about a serious proposal.

Air Force 1
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Post by Air Force 1 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:09 am

Dumb. Ever notice when anything changes in hockey like the AA idea in youth hockey or this idea, it starts in the metro and despite claims against it, it is always about cutting out the outstate teams so there can be a West/Southwest metro lovefest at the end of the season?

D3Referee
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Post by D3Referee » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:09 am

I hope the MSHL is seriously considering this. It makes a lot of sense for super-competitive Sections like 6AA and 2AA. It also gives the Tourney some fresh blood. I hope this gets legs
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Deck Slide
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Post by Deck Slide » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:38 am

This is going to get a lot of Traction and will be seriously considered by the coaches association..

We need to get rid of the 5+ goal differential in the State Tournament. Nobody wants to see it and nobody wants to be a part of it. It will still happen but with this new system the occurances will be fewer. Looks like 3A will be the 15 and 16 seeds..

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:53 am

So are you talking about taking the top two teams from the existing AA sections and then seed them.

OR

The AA and A winners and seed them.



????

D3Referee
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Post by D3Referee » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:03 pm

elliott70 wrote:So are you talking about taking the top two teams from the existing AA sections and then seed them.

OR

The AA and A winners and seed them.

????
I would think top 2 AA and re-seed them.
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thestickler07
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Post by thestickler07 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:14 pm

Would be in the same vein as what they did in 6A football, where the two teams in the final would be moved around.

It's actually a really nice work around that doesn't require "sub sections" which could potentially be more unbalanced.

allstatebenders
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Post by allstatebenders » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:16 pm

Ohhhhh HockeyDJ started this thread... It all makes sense now... You're right, this style of playoffs without facing DE would finally bring the GR thunder hawks to the tourney! 8)

northwoods oldtimer
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Post by northwoods oldtimer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:33 pm

allstatebenders wrote:Ohhhhh HockeyDJ started this thread... It all makes sense now... You're right, this style of playoffs without facing DE would finally bring the GR thunder hawks to the tourney! 8)
Ya, he is looking for options. A way for his mediocre coach to bypass his 0 - 16 record against East.
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The51
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Re: Seeded tournament

Post by The51 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:57 pm

sportstecminnesota wrote:I am not sure I follow your comments. Lou Nanne (sr) was on a talk show last week where he suggested a seeded state tournament much like the NCAA does. You would seed the top 16 teams in the state and they would compromise the state tournament for each class. The other big discussion is recruiting by private schools. The private schools are winning a disproportionate number of state hockey championships.
In Single A they are, but i AA they have won 2 in the past 6 years
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Goalie-Dad
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Post by Goalie-Dad » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:01 pm

This is a great way to take the fun out of the state tourney. The final 8 teams will be all western suburban teams, with DE.

BORING!!

Goalie-Dad
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Re: Seeded tournament

Post by Goalie-Dad » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 pm

sportstecminnesota wrote:I am not sure I follow your comments. Lou Nanne (sr) was on a talk show last week where he suggested a seeded state tournament much like the NCAA does. You would seed the top 16 teams in the state and they would compromise the state tournament for each class. The other big discussion is recruiting by private schools. The private schools are winning a disproportionate number of state hockey championships.
A kid's opportunity to play in the sectionals and state tourney should NEVER be determined by a group of adults sitting in a room with their noses buried in the rankings.

Go watch a high school game, let the kids play.

If teams are upset because their kids have to play such a tough sectional, them request a move to different section.

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 pm

Goalie-Dad wrote:This is a great way to take the fun out of the state tourney. The final 8 teams will be all western suburban teams, with DE.

BORING!!
The analogy to the current 6A football makes sense. If the top two teams in the state are in the same section, it makes little sense for them to play each other 3 rounds before the final.
If it was done similar to football, then we could actually guarantee for games being played between teams from different parts of the state, in addition to getting the best teams in the final 8 teams. Seems like a win-win for everyone.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 pm

It will never happen. (at least under the current 2 class scenario)

Sections make money during the section tournament then return it to their member schools, taking that away will hurt schools athletic departments financially. Taking away the highest attended game, one that often is between rivals like Duluth East/Grand Rapids or Hill-Murray/White Bear Lake won't generate either the revenue or interest they currently do.

The Rochester Mayo at Moorhead or Luverne at International Falls game on a Tuesday night is not in the best interest of anyone. Neither is eliminating all or nearly all the outstate teams in AA or public schools in A.

Most sections, (even section 2AA) aren't really that competitive after the top 2 teams so trying to figure out a way to get more west metro mega schools and privates in the tournament makes little sense.

Football went to super sections in their largest class, the 32 team 6A. Last year all but Brainerd were in the metro area. This year the 3 teams that opted up (Cretin, Totino, and Mounds View) displaced the 3 smallest 6A schools (Brainerd, Andover, and Central) leaving all 32 in the metro area. They also cross bracket into distinct sections that rotate yearly, it's not a reseed. Having all your teams within an hour or so drive makes super sections fairly logistically simple.

Defensive Zone
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Re: New Playoff Format - Reseed 16 final teams

Post by Defensive Zone » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:21 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:What are your thoughts on HS hockey going to a new playoff format where the 2 finalists from each section would be put in a group that would be seeded 1-16 for the section finals. I like the idea, I just wonder how it would work geographically. I would think there would have to be a few buildings selected as options for a home rink for the high seed due to attendance. For instance the metro schools would have the options of Mariucci and the Colesium. Teams like Moorhead, Roseau, Duluth and Grand Rapids could choose Amsoil Arena or the Sanford Center. I think have all the section finals on the Saturday before the state tournament. If Grand Rapids and Duluth East end up in the top 8, both could host a section final double header at Amsoil, maybe you'd have Duluth East vs. Roseau, and Grand Rapids vs. Centennial with a Noon and 2:30 start. At Mariucci possibly Edina vs. Moorhead and Burnsville vs. Elk River.
Intriguing idea! Who plays who would be real interesting! And for the money making side, where they play would be a big attraction (city and venue). Example would be Hermantown vs. St. Cloud a few weeks ago at the section final at Champlin Ice Forum. The manager there told me the place was packed. The place seats 1800. There were people five deep in standing room only. Exciting match up + venue = $
Last edited by Defensive Zone on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bulldog3489
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Post by Bulldog3489 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:26 pm

I think if you used minnesota-scores computer rankings from the end of the regular season, you would have had this line up:

Edina (home) v. Champlin Park
Duluth East (home) v. Lakeville North
Hill Murray (home) v. Lakeville South
Wayzata (home) v. Moorhead
Eagan (home) v. WBL
Benilde (home) v. Brainerd
Centennial (home) v. Eastview
Burnsville (home) v. Grand Rapids

No natural rivalries, lots of travel and last minute planning.

Not really interested in this. Have to believe section final attendance would be down big time.

BodyShots
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Post by BodyShots » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:39 pm

Bulldog3489 wrote:I think if you used minnesota-scores computer rankings from the end of the regular season, you would have had this line up:

Edina (home) v. Champlin Park
Duluth East (home) v. Lakeville North
Hill Murray (home) v. Lakeville South
Wayzata (home) v. Moorhead
Eagan (home) v. WBL
Benilde (home) v. Brainerd
Centennial (home) v. Eastview
Burnsville (home) v. Grand Rapids

No natural rivalries, lots of travel and last minute planning.

Not really interested in this. Have to believe section final attendance would be down big time.
Dumb idea. Talk about destroying rivalries!

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:11 pm

You mean we could finally get to see both Lakevilles at the X? Sweet!!!

Seriously, I can see a lot of problems with this. First, it has few direct comparisons to 6A football. Second, it will easily fall prey to the Law of Unintended Consequences. We built a domed stadium, guaranteeing that the Twins would never get rained out, and folks from the hinterlands would know if they came to Mpls they'd see a game. Unfortunately, we also guaranteed that they'd never see a game in 75 degree sunshine. (Remember, all analogies are imperfect.)

The #15 seed playing the #3 seed would NOT attract much interest, even if the #15 seed were Eden Prairie. The 8-9 and 7-10 games might be of interest, but don't expect a lot of Eastview fans to drive up to Duluth to see them play GR at the Oil Can.

The MSHSL does not factor competitiveness into section assignments. I think it would solve a lot of problems if they made section assignments just like they do now, but once they are complete, tweak them for competitiveness. Because the goal (a better tournament field) could be accomplished that way.

And don't think the U is going to give up Mariucci every year, either. Bulldog has Edina, Wayzata, Benilde. Eagan and Burnsville at home. That requires Mariucci on Friday night and all day Saturday. Or use that dump at the Fairgrounds that is the Metrodome of Hockey. On the other hand, Champlin Park-Edina might well fit easily into Braemar.

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