Ted Brill Senior Cuts and Final Team Announced

[Looks easy from here]

Adam Johnson. Is out who's your next pick I will bet your wrong.
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Not sure who said this, but it's interesting. Like many others, I was super impressed with Johnson at State in 2012, and yet he's been .... well, let's just say under-performing ever since then, to the eye of a disinterested observer. I say that not to disrespect him -- heck he'll be fine with or without my respect, since he's already committed to UMD -- but the point is this: THAT'S MAYBE WHY THEY PLAY THESE GAMES and actually have, you know, tryouts. For every shoo-in, there maybe is a shoo-out too. If roster spots are limited and you have two studs with good reputations, you take the kid who actually put the puck in the net during the most recent evaluation.

Johnson seems to have been struggling ever since Elites last fall, and even being a Mr. Hockey finalist isn't apparently going to get him into the NIT.

He was on the team and now he's not.

[Shinbone_News]

Gotcha. Maybe a conflict of schedule then. Interesting no points though. I wish him well, he's a nice player. Great hands and creativity.

[rainier]

Gotcha. Maybe a conflict of schedule then. Interesting no points though. I wish him well, he's a nice player. Great hands and creativity.

I know he is on the tennis team, so maybe there was a conflict with that.

He had 4g and 1a in the Great 8.

As far as his reduced scoring, he missed 6 games two seasons ago but was still not far off his sophomore scoring pace, and he played 75% of this past season as a defenseman, so a scoring dip is expected.

He did just fine in the Elite league and won the MVP of the Duluth-Iron Range all star game two weeks ago. He will be an excellent player for UMD.

I've watched a lot of HS hockey these past few years and Besse is the only player i've seen that has offensive skills like Johnson.

[394 West]

Gotcha. Maybe a conflict of schedule then. Interesting no points though. I wish him well, he's a nice player. Great hands and creativity.

I know he is on the tennis team, so maybe there was a conflict with that.

He had 4g and 1a in the Great 8.

As far as his reduced scoring, he missed 6 games two seasons ago but was still not far off his sophomore scoring pace, and he played 75% of this past season as a defenseman, so a scoring dip is expected.

He did just fine in the Elite league and won the MVP of the Duluth-Iron Range all star game two weeks ago. He will be an excellent player for UMD.

I've watched a lot of HS hockey these past few years and Besse is the only player i've seen that has offensive skills like Johnson.

No offense to him but he is not even close to Besse.

[bstarr15]

394 nailed it...............not even close.

[rainier]

394 nailed it...............not even close.

Put Moore and Labosky on either side of Johnson and you would see similar results.

Did Besse get a D1 scholarship as a sophomore? Didn't think so. I think Besse is an outstanding player, but Johnson is just as good.

Besse is 124 in the NHL scouting rankings while Johnson is 135. "Not even close" is a bit of an exaggeration, guys.

We'll see how it pans out over the next few years.

[394 West]

394 nailed it...............not even close.

Put Moore and Labosky on either side of Johnson and you would see similar results.

Did Besse get a D1 scholarship as a sophomore? Didn't think so. I think Besse is an outstanding player, but Johnson is just as good.

Besse is 124 in the NHL scouting rankings while Johnson is 135. "Not even close" is a bit of an exaggeration, guys.

We'll see how it pans out over the next few years.

I stand with not close. While Besse had two great line mates they also played AA vs A. If Besse played A he would likely be right with Benik, Hanowski for state all time scoring records vs just being 6th.

[The Best in the Bizz3]

I am sorry, but quite frankly, he is overrated. There are a handful of seniors that out performed him in the elite league and the regular season that sadly don't get the recognition that he is handed. What happened to what have you done for me lately? Seems like some people are stuck in march of 2011..

[rainier]

394 nailed it...............not even close.

Put Moore and Labosky on either side of Johnson and you would see similar results.

Did Besse get a D1 scholarship as a sophomore? Didn't think so. I think Besse is an outstanding player, but Johnson is just as good.

Besse is 124 in the NHL scouting rankings while Johnson is 135. "Not even close" is a bit of an exaggeration, guys.

We'll see how it pans out over the next few years.

I stand with not close. While Besse had two great line mates they also played AA vs A. If Besse played A he would likely be right with Benik, Hanowski for state all time scoring records vs just being 6th.

Ah, but the fatal flaw in your exaggerated claim is that Hibbing plays one of the toughest schedules of all Class A teams. This season they played AA powers BSM, Tonka, Eagan, Grand Rapids (twice), Cloquet, Roseau and top A teams Denfeld, D. Marshall, Mahtomedi, Little Falls, and Hermantown, hardly an easy schedule and much more difficult than that of many AA teams.

Saying someone played "AA vs A" is essentially meaningless. There are AA teams that play super weak schedules and there are A teams that play tough schedules.

If Besse is that much better than Johnson, then why did it take so long for him to get a scholarship? Why didn't Lucia make him an offer?

As I said, Besse is a great, great player, but to say Adam Johnson isn't "even close" is insane. Have you seen Johnson play? I have seen both of them play plenty of times and there is not much that separates them offensively. I think D1 coaches and NHL scouts would say the same thing.

[rainier]

I am sorry, but quite frankly, he is overrated. There are a handful of seniors that out performed him in the elite league and the regular season that sadly don't get the recognition that he is handed. What happened to what have you done for me lately? Seems like some people are stuck in march of 2011..

Quite frankly, you are wrong. He did just fine in the Elite league and the reason March of 2011 stands out so much is that that is the last time he played with two other high quality linemates.

I guess USHL scouts, Sandelin, and NHL scouts must not know anything.

Besse is great, but it seems like you are stuck in March of 2012...

We'll see how it all shakes out in the next couple years.

[Hockey North]

Johnson is a great player. Each year he had less to work with on his team. This year he was pretty much all alone. Thats the way I saw it. He played D alot this year. He is a D1 caliber player. If you say he isnt, then you dont know anything.

[394 West]

Put Moore and Labosky on either side of Johnson and you would see similar results.

Did Besse get a D1 scholarship as a sophomore? Didn't think so. I think Besse is an outstanding player, but Johnson is just as good.

Besse is 124 in the NHL scouting rankings while Johnson is 135. "Not even close" is a bit of an exaggeration, guys.

We'll see how it pans out over the next few years.

I stand with not close. While Besse had two great line mates they also played AA vs A. If Besse played A he would likely be right with Benik, Hanowski for state all time scoring records vs just being 6th.

Ah, but the fatal flaw in your exaggerated claim is that Hibbing plays one of the toughest schedules of all Class A teams. This season they played AA powers BSM, Tonka, Eagan, Grand Rapids (twice), Cloquet, Roseau and top A teams Denfeld, D. Marshall, Mahtomedi, Little Falls, and Hermantown, hardly an easy schedule and much more difficult than that of many AA teams.

Saying someone played "AA vs A" is essentially meaningless. There are AA teams that play super weak schedules and there are A teams that play tough schedules.

If Besse is that much better than Johnson, then why did it take so long for him to get a scholarship? Why didn't Lucia make him an offer?

As I said, Besse is a great, great player, but to say Adam Johnson isn't "even close" is insane. Have you seen Johnson play? I have seen both of them play plenty of times and there is not much that separates them offensively. I think D1 coaches and NHL scouts would say the same thing.

What does when someone gets a scholarship have anything to do with it? Besse had schools drooling over him since he was a sophomore and likely before that.

[Wallyworld]

Unless know which players withdrew from selection consideration hard to say who should be on the team. Players were to provide a completed form in advance of tourney if would be eligible to play in NIT weekend.

That aside can see ties to a number of players selected, either that they had a coach at the Great 8, name (Serratore), or program that gets favored at these events.

I sure hate to see individuals called out like this. No problem if you want to say who you think should have made it, but it seems pretty crappy to rip on kids by name. Too many posts in this thread like this for my taste.

I don't agree on naming someone based on speculation like this but this initial post was based on a weekend of play and accompanying points. Thus to say you thought X should have made it over Y is not saying Y isn't a quality player etc but perhaps based on scoring and game-play over the short tourney, you don't feel he played as well as Y. To me this is not ripping on a kid, especially when backed up by points or lack of. Just an opinion and these kids should have tough enough skin if they are going to move to the next level..

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[preferhockey]

Would not put emphasis on points. Combination of Refs getting wrong or not giving out very few secondary assists. Plus throw in all the Penalty shot goals that would not be scored normally leads to stats that are distorted.

[Wallyworld]

394 nailed it...............not even close.

Put Moore and Labosky on either side of Johnson and you would see similar results.

Did Besse get a D1 scholarship as a sophomore? Didn't think so. I think Besse is an outstanding player, but Johnson is just as good.

Besse is 124 in the NHL scouting rankings while Johnson is 135. "Not even close" is a bit of an exaggeration, guys.

We'll see how it pans out over the next few years.

So many criteria thrown out here as to what makes one player better than another in HS. Is it points. Is it how he makes his line mates better by presence, playmaking, fore/back-checking etc.. Is it all around game - which the Wild trade involving Pom just emphasized. Is it when and by whom a scholarship was offered. Is it Elite League play against apples to apples competition. Is it potential for next levels as NHL rating likely assesses.. And of course performance doesn't occur in a vacuum but rather an ecosystem of line- mates, teammates, opponents, coaches, etc of which no two are the same.

Since we are all filled with bias, and each grope around in the dark, inevitably grabbing a different part of two elephants here and saying "this one is ...." I would say the purest measure at this point is NHL scouting rankings for the top 150 players or so (after that it, like Central Scouting ratings in general, can be a bit sloppy for HS kids.) It's a talent that these scouts get $$ for not to mention career mobility if they consistently get it wrong - so if one kid is ranked 124 and another 135 then they are basically equal at this point as much as we love to pick favorites based on our limited and unique experience. As a wise man once said 'we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are' - especially when emotion is involved... OK off my lofty soapbox now...IMNHO


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