16 and 17 National Camp Invitees

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Mailman
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Re: 16 and 17 National Camp Invitees

Post by Mailman » Mon May 06, 2013 8:21 am

For something that had the vast majority of spots already known, took them long enough to come out with the list :P

minnscout
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Post by minnscout » Mon May 06, 2013 8:41 am

Mark Kaske was the best forward both weekends- , this process is a joke. Look at a couple of the names on the 16 list and you just have to wonder.

Lazy Scout
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Post by Lazy Scout » Mon May 06, 2013 8:57 am

minnscout wrote:Mark Kaske was the best forward both weekends- , this process is a joke. Look at a couple of the names on the 16 list and you just have to wonder.
Couldn't agree more!

OneMoreYear
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Post by OneMoreYear » Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am

minnscout wrote:Mark Kaske was the best forward both weekends- , this process is a joke. Look at a couple of the names on the 16 list and you just have to wonder.
Something has to be going on here. Kaske was obvious choice. As were Newhouse and Klehr as defenseman. Could it be these kids are not on the list because they have committed somewhere else? Maybe they just assumed of the left Dornbach off the list, everyone would be happy :oops:

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:09 am

Biggest oversight of ALL is how only ONE age 17 goalie was selected for the National Camp.

Like NONE of the other 5 goalies (from last weekend's Final 54) are good enough to represent MN at the National Camp...what a bunch of BS!

stackthepads35
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Post by stackthepads35 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:27 am

hockey59 wrote:Biggest oversight of ALL is how only ONE age 17 goalie was selected for the National Camp.

Like NONE of the other 5 goalies (from last weekend's Final 54) are good enough to represent MN at the National Camp...what a bunch of BS!

I agree!! this process does not seem to be fair? are they having alternates?

dogeatdog1
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Post by dogeatdog1 » Mon May 06, 2013 11:07 am

Strange that only 11 forwards for the 16s ( not 12)and one goalie (not 2)for the 17s does anyone know how they pick how many kids MN gets? I always thought that we got more than other areas of the US due to our depth. I think last year there were alternates listed and this year they are not. I do know that last year one of the alternates ended up at the camp. You would think that we would get at least 20 kids at each level.

stupidiswhatstupiddoes
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Post by stupidiswhatstupiddoes » Mon May 06, 2013 11:26 am

Could it be that some of the players not selected were recently in front of the USA guys (a couple of weeks ago) and they want to see some different players?

Not saying, just asking.

Stars67
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Post by Stars67 » Mon May 06, 2013 12:22 pm

There is something extremely fishy going on here. I cannot believe how much credibility this program is losing by the minute. The biggest/most obvious flaw in this program has to be the 17's goalie selection. This is the first year in as long as i can remember that they have only selected one goalie for this, usually it is 2 and an alternate. Is it because the penciled in carry over goalie (Chase Perry) had an off weekend and they don't dare take a chance on someone else, nor do they place him because of the ruckus it would cause?

This is an absolute mockery and dis-service to the kids who tried out for one of the "2" positions available.

I would encourage any and all questions to be directed to the head of the bureaucratic HP program listed on the site. If I had a child participating I would demand a refund. I am just astonished by this decision to not let an additional young man take part in the experience of a life time. There were multiple candidates that could have taken that spot including GHeifort and RGoor, who I felt are the two given the most disservice.

Questions, Contact Rick Lowe: 320-333-5696 - rickl@minnesotahockey.org

SuperStar
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Post by SuperStar » Mon May 06, 2013 12:26 pm

Correction - There has been and is only (1) goalie at the 17's selections. 16's take (2) - 17's take (1)

hockeyoldtimer
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16 and 17 Invites

Post by hockeyoldtimer » Mon May 06, 2013 12:48 pm

It is so sad that Kaske and Klehr didn't make it. I realize they need to spread the spots around the state and not take too many kids from certain schools but both of these boys talented and very deserving. Why not add some alternate positions? They only listed 11 forwards, could add more. Minnesota is supposed to be the state with the most talent and I am sure USA hockey would let more kids be sent from here if the powers of Minnesota hockey would allow it.

Bluewhitefan
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Re: 16 and 17 Invites

Post by Bluewhitefan » Mon May 06, 2013 12:59 pm

hockeyoldtimer wrote:It is so sad that Kaske and Klehr didn't make it. I realize they need to spread the spots around the state and not take too many kids from certain schools but both of these boys talented and very deserving. Why not add some alternate positions? They only listed 11 forwards, could add more. Minnesota is supposed to be the state with the most talent and I am sure USA hockey would let more kids be sent from here if the powers of Minnesota hockey would allow it.
History shows that the initial list is not always the final list. Some kids have found their way to the National camp in the past that were not on the first list that came out.

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Mon May 06, 2013 1:11 pm

SuperStar wrote:Correction - There has been and is only (1) goalie at the 17's selections. 16's take (2) - 17's take (1)
Since when (has there been) or is only 1 goalie selected from MN to the National Camp?

I haven't followed the 17's that closely in recent years, but I do know for a FACT that for 1990 birth years (summer 2007) Brady Hjelle and Aaron Crandell both went as 17 year olds to the National Camp. In addition, Mike Lee and Joe Howe were not selected (they may have been alternates) and both had great college careers.

Point is, it's preposterous for MN to only send 1 goalie to the 17's...when SO MANY are deserving.

SuperStar
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Post by SuperStar » Mon May 06, 2013 2:06 pm

Hey - I think it sucks too man - don't get me wrong. I do know that the last few years they have only taken 1 goalie at the 17 level....Maybe they just started this a couple years ago.

Hell, Don't feel too bad - last year they took the kid who was dead last in every single goalie category - Shots, GA and GAA in the 54's and the festival with No varsity experience... The other 5 goalies were varsity starters or were playing a lot and had some really good performances in the 54's and the festival.

They should be taking 2 for sure..

Hscout000
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Post by Hscout000 » Mon May 06, 2013 6:56 pm

They never get these things completely right. Lots of great players always get left out and just because you didn't make does not mean you are not a good player and just because you made it does not mean you are a good player.

suntzu
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Post by suntzu » Mon May 06, 2013 7:23 pm

USA Hockey dictates how many spots Minnesota has at the National Camps. You can argue until you are blue in the face and that fact won't change. USA Hockey also has input into who makes it to the camps...don't let anyone tell you differently. Save your outrage for our national governing body, not the guys sitting upstairs evaluating and trying to do right by our kids.

Nuts&Bolts
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Post by Nuts&Bolts » Mon May 06, 2013 7:42 pm

So suntzu is saying the evaluators have essentially no influence and are completely objective sitting upstairs "select"ing the players? Coaches or HS connections have no influence (let's forget about parents/grandparents)? Probably the most ridiculous overstatement on this bored. HP equals highly political. Become an evaluator and get a free jacket. Watch for an unnamed alternative or two make there way through another region.

Pens4
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Post by Pens4 » Mon May 06, 2013 8:06 pm

suntzu wrote:USA Hockey dictates how many spots Minnesota has at the National Camps. You can argue until you are blue in the face and that fact won't change. USA Hockey also has input into who makes it to the camps...don't let anyone tell you differently. Save your outrage for our national governing body, not the guys sitting upstairs evaluating and trying to do right by our kids.
Thank you Suntzu for finally calling it...come on fella's, you honestly think MN hockey doesn't want as many MN kids as possible. We're getting a little whipped up for something everyone thinks is joke.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Mon May 06, 2013 8:58 pm

Pens4 wrote:
suntzu wrote:USA Hockey dictates how many spots Minnesota has at the National Camps. You can argue until you are blue in the face and that fact won't change. USA Hockey also has input into who makes it to the camps...don't let anyone tell you differently. Save your outrage for our national governing body, not the guys sitting upstairs evaluating and trying to do right by our kids.
Thank you Suntzu for finally calling it...come on fella's, you honestly think MN hockey doesn't want as many MN kids as possible. We're getting a little whipped up for something everyone thinks is joke.
If USA hockey is the reason for only one goalie/forward, wouldn't it make sense for them or MN Hockey to publicly say so ?

Save a lot of trouble you would think.

Pens4
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Post by Pens4 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:19 pm

Mailman wrote:
Pens4 wrote:
suntzu wrote:USA Hockey dictates how many spots Minnesota has at the National Camps. You can argue until you are blue in the face and that fact won't change. USA Hockey also has input into who makes it to the camps...don't let anyone tell you differently. Save your outrage for our national governing body, not the guys sitting upstairs evaluating and trying to do right by our kids.
Thank you Suntzu for finally calling it...come on fella's, you honestly think MN hockey doesn't want as many MN kids as possible. We're getting a little whipped up for something everyone thinks is joke.
If USA hockey is the reason for only one goalie/forward, wouldn't it make sense for them or MN Hockey to publicly say so ?

Save a lot of trouble you would think.
I agree...it would cause much less trouble if everyone had heard this prior to the weekend. Everyone would have been much more understanding.

SWPrez
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Post by SWPrez » Tue May 07, 2013 1:22 pm

hockey59 wrote:
SuperStar wrote:Correction - There has been and is only (1) goalie at the 17's selections. 16's take (2) - 17's take (1)
Since when (has there been) or is only 1 goalie selected from MN to the National Camp?

I haven't followed the 17's that closely in recent years, but I do know for a FACT that for 1990 birth years (summer 2007) Brady Hjelle and Aaron Crandell both went as 17 year olds to the National Camp. In addition, Mike Lee and Joe Howe were not selected (they may have been alternates) and both had great college careers.

Point is, it's preposterous for MN to only send 1 goalie to the 17's...when SO MANY are deserving.
My son was a goalie in the '94 group. Only one goalie was sent from that group as they already had a MN goalie in the USA Program in Collin Olson.

Just a hunch here....but the USA has Miska from North Branch on the 17U Men's team. While he is a '95 birthyear, perhaps he is considered the other MN goalie on the 17U squad and thus MN was only allowed one goalie.

Let's face it....when it comes to this stuff, goalie is a crappy position to evaluate and select. Only one can fit in a crease at a time (unlike six Dmen or 9 forwards)....thus they don't need as many. Perceived and real injustice comes with the decision to put on the pads!

SuperStar
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Post by SuperStar » Tue May 07, 2013 2:01 pm

Good point SW prez - Maybe that is the case the last 2 years Olsen '94 and Miksa '95, but this year's group doesn't have a MN (96 aged) goalie at the NTDP...?? Or do they..

And don't get me wrong on this years pick - I like Kielly and think he does a great job - but having I mean ,really, is having 2 goalies from MN regardless who's out there or not really going hurt the pockets of USA hockey? It's one extra kid.

"Perceived and real injustice comes with the decision to put on the pads!"

I think a lot of the times the REAL injustice comes from some of these evaluators not the kids working hard.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Tue May 07, 2013 2:18 pm

I am not an expert, but I do know that this is USAH's program and they DO dictate certain things such as numbers and certain people are put on the team.

MH also gets spots on certain other affiliates rosters if USAH says so.

Not sure if they are still taking kids from affiliates and then placing them on mixed teams or not.

Puckguy19
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Post by Puckguy19 » Tue May 07, 2013 9:38 pm

Stars67 wrote:There is something extremely fishy going on here. I cannot believe how much credibility this program is losing by the minute. The biggest/most obvious flaw in this program has to be the 17's goalie selection. This is the first year in as long as i can remember that they have only selected one goalie for this, usually it is 2 and an alternate. Is it because the penciled in carry over goalie (Chase Perry) had an off weekend and they don't dare take a chance on someone else, nor do they place him because of the ruckus it would cause?

This is an absolute mockery and dis-service to the kids who tried out for one of the "2" positions available.

I would encourage any and all questions to be directed to the head of the bureaucratic HP program listed on the site. If I had a child participating I would demand a refund. I am just astonished by this decision to not let an additional young man take part in the experience of a life time. There were multiple candidates that could have taken that spot including GHeifort and RGoor, who I felt are the two given the most disservice.

Questions, Contact Rick Lowe: 320-333-5696 - rickl@minnesotahockey.org
With all due respect, we could replicate this thread year after year, as some express their disappointment. That is one of the benefits of sites like this ~ an opportunity to vent.

But because player evaluation is an imprecise science, the program and/or evaluators will never satisfy everyone. What occurs with the final selections, also occurs in the initial phase of the process, but the stakes aren't as high. Selecting slots 15-20 in the first phase, usually leaves questions about how they differ from 21-25. 50-60 for the '54's end up being fairly subjective. Then there are some elites who disappear at various phases of the process due to their prima dona attitudes.

Go ahead, be frustrated and ridicule the process. Pull your child, but know there are others lined up to pay the fee and take a chance. No one is irreplaceable. If you want to change the process, get involved in MN Hockey, but realize like with any other organization you are going to have to put in your time and pay your dues. With the exception of giving children an opportunity to participate, most roles are not glamorous.

Finally, don't call the person noted. These are not precise tryouts, full of in-depth player evaluations and justifications. Bottom line, its not a perfect process! 8)

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