Family Advisor Question

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livinthedream
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Family Advisor Question

Post by livinthedream » Fri May 17, 2013 9:14 pm

Hoping someone on the board here can help me....I have a son (junior in HS) whose dream is to play D1 hockey. He has had some mild interest expressed by a USHL team, attended a few camps and was told he did very well, but nothing has materialized. He will be skating in the Elite League this fall, and for his HS this winter. His HS team does very well, but plays an extremely conservative brand of defense, and so he does not have the flashy stats that seem to get defensemen noticed.

How important is it to have a "family advisor" nowadays? And where would one begin the process of finding one? Any idea on the cost? I do not come from a hockey background, but several people and coaches have told us he is very good. We're not sure if he's just not quite good enough, or if kids need someone with a hockey background advocating for them to make the jump to the next level.

Would appreciate any advice/feedback/suggestions you have to share, thanks.

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Mon May 20, 2013 9:03 am

Since the player in question is still in high school, I moved this to the HS forum, where it will probably get more traffic.

The Exiled One
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Re: Family Advisor Question

Post by The Exiled One » Mon May 20, 2013 10:40 am

livinthedream wrote:Hoping someone on the board here can help me....I have a son (junior in HS) whose dream is to play D1 hockey. He has had some mild interest expressed by a USHL team, attended a few camps and was told he did very well, but nothing has materialized. He will be skating in the Elite League this fall, and for his HS this winter. His HS team does very well, but plays an extremely conservative brand of defense, and so he does not have the flashy stats that seem to get defensemen noticed.

How important is it to have a "family advisor" nowadays? And where would one begin the process of finding one? Any idea on the cost? I do not come from a hockey background, but several people and coaches have told us he is very good. We're not sure if he's just not quite good enough, or if kids need someone with a hockey background advocating for them to make the jump to the next level.

Would appreciate any advice/feedback/suggestions you have to share, thanks.
No, you do not need an advocate. They will come to you... probably at an Elite League event.

Remember that "family advisers" would love to have you commit to them without them committing to you in any material way. Don't give them the leverage.

Here's something that may come as a shock to you...
Many current D1 players DO NOT have an adviser

My advice: Elite League will lead to new opportunities. Don't do anything until that season is over. Even after the HS season, your kid could probably participate in the Ted Brill if he hasn't received attention by that time. He will either be asked to join a USHL or NAHL team, or even if he doesn't, he could probably tryout and make an NAHL team. He'll have at least two years of heavy scouting in juniors to earn D1 interest. Don't panic.

EDIT: One last thing, you don't pay for an adviser. If you did, he'd be an agent, and your kid would be a pro, which would make him ineligible for D1 hockey.

Vapor
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Post by Vapor » Mon May 20, 2013 2:24 pm

Well said Exiled.

student of the game
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Post by student of the game » Tue May 21, 2013 10:12 am

Let me see if I can put this in perspective for you. First, a family advisor can be a very good source of advice. Essentially it is a handshake relationship. no commitment by either party. Family advisors job is to establish relationships with amature players in hopes that if they turn pro, they will use their agent services. They can assist determining what options post high school are best (USHL, NAHL, BCHL, etc.) They also speak to coaches, promoting the players they work with, etc.

That being said "the exiled one" is right. You certainly do not need a family advisor and may D1 players do not have one. Remember a family advisor cannot make your child a better player, he can only promote. So the best advice is for your child to work to be the best player he can. Use the advanced leagues (elite, Ted Brill, etc.) to expose your child to scouts and to compare how his talent stacks up against other elite competition. Attend a few juinior tryouts. The bottom line is that talent will draw advisors and colleges.

If you do get contacted by a family advisor, ask for references, call USA Hockey to see if you can get info on them. Make sure to ask how they can help promote your child and decide if it's right for you.

Good Luck

Cdale
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Post by Cdale » Tue May 21, 2013 12:39 pm

How does one get on an Elite team or try out?

bstarr15
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Post by bstarr15 » Tue May 21, 2013 1:03 pm

For the Elite league you are either selected by the league and those invites either have come already or will be coming soon.
If not selected to play then your next option is to try out for the elite league but as many in the past have noted, that their may only be a few slots left to fill on any given team and it becomes a money maker for the league. I've been down both roads with 2 kids in the league.
The invites to tryout come a bit later I believe.

pioneers
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Location: St Paul

Post by pioneers » Tue May 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Cdale wrote:How does one get on an Elite team or try out?
You need to be nominated by your team's head coach.
Pioneers 1983, 1991 and 2008 State Champions

preferhockey
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Post by preferhockey » Tue May 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Cdale wrote:How does one get on an Elite team or try out?
1. Know someone tied to Elite League
2. Have a coach that cares and works to get you in league
3. Luck

Not all about the best players in every case. Yes, most are the best, however those without a coach actively involved may be overlooked or by-passed.

HSHockeyFan08
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Post by HSHockeyFan08 » Tue May 21, 2013 6:15 pm

The Family Advisers will come to you if your kid is good enough. Usually happens during the Advanced 15, 16, or 17 events out in New York or during the Elite League season. A lot of the local players go through the Sheehy's or Octagon Sports around this area.

bafata88
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Post by bafata88 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:04 pm

Livin..

From my observations, there is some level of arbitrariness on who gets the Division 1 opportunities. Who the family knows definitely helps a number of players. There are plenty of parents (mostly fathers) who market their sons every chance they get to whoever in the hockey world will listen. Talking with an advisor can't hurt. If someone who knows how this rat race works is willing to give you good advice, it is worth your time. Your off season program directors are always a good resource as well. I am horribly jaded about this stuff because I believe if your son is not related to a former NHLer, your son is already a step behind those kids who are, regardless of talent, performance and potential. There are examples of players that do well in the Elite League who still do not get the other opportunities that lead to the D1 roster spot. The Elite League opportunity means your son has a chance on getting on a D1 coach's radar; but it may very well depend on how he performs. If he does not get to skate with appointed "stars" it may be difficult to shine enough to make the most of the opportunity. But it sounds like he is on the right path.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Tue May 21, 2013 9:08 pm

bafata88 wrote:Livin..

From my observations, there is some level of arbitrariness on who gets the Division 1 opportunities. Who the family knows definitely helps a number of players. There are plenty of parents (mostly fathers) who market their sons every chance they get to whoever in the hockey world will listen. Talking with an advisor can't hurt. If someone who knows how this rat race works is willing to give you good advice, it is worth your time. Your off season program directors are always a good resource as well. I am horribly jaded about this stuff because I believe if your son is not related to a former NHLer, your son is already a step behind those kids who are, regardless of talent, performance and potential. There are examples of players that do well in the Elite League who still do not get the other opportunities that lead to the D1 roster spot. The Elite League opportunity means your son has a chance on getting on a D1 coach's radar; but it may very well depend on how he performs. If he does not get to skate with appointed "stars" it may be difficult to shine enough to make the most of the opportunity. But it sounds like he is on the right path.
I'd agree with that. To the point, that sometimes I've begun to wonder if even in the NHL, if it's the best players that we're seeing all the time.

The Exiled One
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Post by The Exiled One » Wed May 22, 2013 8:36 am

The last couple of posters are saying what livinthedream wants to hear, but it's not what he/she needs to hear.

Are there below average players in D1? Of course there are. For there to be an average player in D1, there have to be below average and above average players in D1.

Are there average D1 players not in D1? No. All of the D3 superstars would be below average in D1.

Anybody who has to use "connections" to get their kid a D1 roster spot probably has a below average D1 hockey player. Their kid is either going to be a 4th liner or a healthy scratch. They may be a walk-on or have a partial scholarship (which may even be in jeopardy of getting yanked).

Again, don't focus on getting an adviser. Feel free to make connections though, as it doesn't hurt to know people, powerful or otherwise. However, the most important thing SHOULD go without saying (but it feels like there is so much cynicism that I have to say it anyway): The kid should focus on doing his best. When your kid has a coach that he trusts with a track record of producing top talent, your kid should ask him what he should work on and do that. The coach should be willing to help and may be more willing to discuss your kid with recruiters because of his dedication to improvement. It doesn't have to be the HS head coach either. It could be the Elite League coach, the assistant HS coach, the Ted Brill coach, the High Performance coach, etc.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Wed May 22, 2013 10:58 am

The Exiled One wrote:The last couple of posters are saying what livinthedream wants to hear, but it's not what he/she needs to hear.

Are there below average players in D1? Of course there are. For there to be an average player in D1, there have to be below average and above average players in D1.

Are there average D1 players not in D1? No. All of the D3 superstars would be below average in D1.

Anybody who has to use "connections" to get their kid a D1 roster spot probably has a below average D1 hockey player. Their kid is either going to be a 4th liner or a healthy scratch. They may be a walk-on or have a partial scholarship (which may even be in jeopardy of getting yanked).

Again, don't focus on getting an adviser. Feel free to make connections though, as it doesn't hurt to know people, powerful or otherwise. However, the most important thing SHOULD go without saying (but it feels like there is so much cynicism that I have to say it anyway): The kid should focus on doing his best. When your kid has a coach that he trusts with a track record of producing top talent, your kid should ask him what he should work on and do that. The coach should be willing to help and may be more willing to discuss your kid with recruiters because of his dedication to improvement. It doesn't have to be the HS head coach either. It could be the Elite League coach, the assistant HS coach, the Ted Brill coach, the High Performance coach, etc.
Don't put words in my mouth; I was in no way "telling livinthedream what he wants to hear".

Agree with the rest of your post.

p.s. cynicism is just another word for realism, whether one wants to believe it or not.

The Exiled One
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Post by The Exiled One » Wed May 22, 2013 11:23 am

Mailman wrote:Don't put words in my mouth
My sincerest apologies. :)

This is the part of bafata88's comments I strongly disagree with...
bafata88 wrote:I am horribly jaded about this stuff because I believe if your son is not related to a former NHLer, your son is already a step behind those kids who are, regardless of talent, performance and potential. There are examples of players that do well in the Elite League who still do not get the other opportunities that lead to the D1 roster spot.
This would lead you to believe that their are kids who would have been average or above average D1 players if they just had the "connections" to get a D1 offer. This is NOT true.

MAYBE connections can get a kid a D1 offer, but if they didn't deserve it based on their own performance, they'll fail. However, I challenge bafata88 to provide ONE example of a kid who would've performed well at the D1 level but never got the chance.

So, to put it more succinctly, in direct contradiction to the quote: If the kid has the "talent, performance, and potential" to perform at the D1 level, they'll get the chance. PERIOD.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Wed May 22, 2013 12:55 pm

The Exiled One wrote:
Mailman wrote:Don't put words in my mouth
My sincerest apologies. :)

This is the part of bafata88's comments I strongly disagree with...
bafata88 wrote:I am horribly jaded about this stuff because I believe if your son is not related to a former NHLer, your son is already a step behind those kids who are, regardless of talent, performance and potential. There are examples of players that do well in the Elite League who still do not get the other opportunities that lead to the D1 roster spot.
This would lead you to believe that their are kids who would have been average or above average D1 players if they just had the "connections" to get a D1 offer. This is NOT true.

MAYBE connections can get a kid a D1 offer, but if they didn't deserve it based on their own performance, they'll fail. However, I challenge bafata88 to provide ONE example of a kid who would've performed well at the D1 level but never got the chance.

So, to put it more succinctly, in direct contradiction to the quote: If the kid has the "talent, performance, and potential" to perform at the D1 level, they'll get the chance. PERIOD.
Give me your thoughts on this, as I don't know, just going on appearances. Correct me if I have the facts wrong:

- take Nanne. two years (is that correct ?), Grandpa got him into the USA National Camp, even though he wasn't originally selected.
Obviously, to do so, he took some other kids place. Is this kid still going to get his chance (whatever that means), without the huge benefit that going to the camp provides ?

The Exiled One
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Post by The Exiled One » Wed May 22, 2013 2:20 pm

Mailman wrote:Is this kid still going to get his chance (whatever that means), without the huge benefit that going to the camp provides ?
Yes.

You want to know who didn't make that camp?

Bo Pieper
Jake Bischoff
Blake Heinrich
Dom Toninato
Jared Thomas
Adam Johnson
Kyle Osterberg
Jake Randolph
Charlie Lindgren
Nate Arentz
Jake Jackson
Dylan Steman
Joe Schuldt
Tyler Heinonen
CJ Franklin

Only 14 Minnesotans made the camp. I listed 15 1994 born D1 recruits from Minnesota, I didn't name them all, and there will be more committing in the future.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Wed May 22, 2013 3:08 pm

The Exiled One wrote:
Mailman wrote:Is this kid still going to get his chance (whatever that means), without the huge benefit that going to the camp provides ?
Yes.

You want to know who didn't make that camp?

Bo Pieper
Jake Bischoff
Blake Heinrich
Dom Toninato
Jared Thomas
Adam Johnson
Kyle Osterberg
Jake Randolph
Charlie Lindgren
Nate Arentz
Jake Jackson
Dylan Steman
Joe Schuldt
Tyler Heinonen
CJ Franklin

Only 14 Minnesotans made the camp. I listed 15 1994 born D1 recruits from Minnesota, I didn't name them all, and there will be more committing in the future.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, as soon as I posted, I realized that more don't make it, than do.

Sometimes I just wonder is all, in this day and age, if the old line of "If you're good enough, you'll get found no matter where you are" still holds true.

It would seem it does.

OnFrozenPond
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Post by OnFrozenPond » Wed May 22, 2013 3:41 pm

Mailman wrote: Sometimes I just wonder is all, in this day and age, if the old line of "If you're good enough, you'll get found no matter where you are" still holds true.

It would seem it does.
I think for the most part this holds true. I will say that late bloomers and fringe players may have to grind it out in juniors for a year or two before landing that D1 spot.

BodyShots
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Post by BodyShots » Wed May 22, 2013 4:13 pm

OnFrozenPond wrote:
Mailman wrote: Sometimes I just wonder is all, in this day and age, if the old line of "If you're good enough, you'll get found no matter where you are" still holds true.

It would seem it does.
I think for the most part this holds true. I will say that late bloomers and fringe players may have to grind it out in juniors for a year or two before landing that D1 spot.
Heck, Kevin Schulze didn't even make an elite team his senior year :roll: and got a D1 scholarship 1 year out of high school. Last year he was a top 4 defensemen for WI that won the WCHA Final Five and made the NCAA tourney.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Wed May 22, 2013 5:10 pm

BodyShots wrote:
OnFrozenPond wrote:
Mailman wrote: Sometimes I just wonder is all, in this day and age, if the old line of "If you're good enough, you'll get found no matter where you are" still holds true.

It would seem it does.
I think for the most part this holds true. I will say that late bloomers and fringe players may have to grind it out in juniors for a year or two before landing that D1 spot.
Heck, Kevin Schulze didn't even make an elite team his senior year :roll: and got a D1 scholarship 1 year out of high school. Last year he was a top 4 defensemen for WI that won the WCHA Final Five and made the NCAA tourney.
Thanks guys.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Wed May 22, 2013 7:35 pm

OnFrozenPond wrote:
Mailman wrote: Sometimes I just wonder is all, in this day and age, if the old line of "If you're good enough, you'll get found no matter where you are" still holds true.

It would seem it does.
I think for the most part this holds true. I will say that late bloomers and fringe players may have to grind it out in juniors for a year or two before landing that D1 spot.
There's a little minor league baseball mentality to junior hockey and I think that's a good thing.

http://lacrossetribune.com/eriah-hayes- ... 963f4.html

I doubt the U would have ever considered Hayes with his pedigree but luckily there are 5 D1 teams in Minnesota, enough for a good kid from a non elite background to get a shot.

bafata88
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Post by bafata88 » Wed May 22, 2013 8:09 pm

I generally agree with Exiled; I'm thinking I am saying the same thing. Bottom line, any player that wants to play D1 hockey is going to have to work his ass off. I always use Crosby as a good example; the guy is one of the very best in the world because he loves the details of playing hockey and he is obsessive about working on the details of all of the skills necessary to be one of the best.

My point about the sons of former NHLers is not that such players are lacking talent or potential. Like any sport there is very little difference between many D1 players and many D3 players as far as talent and potential go. There are only so many D1 roster spots so choices are made. Like it or not "connections" help in some cases. Look at any D3 roster and you will find some players that very well could've played D1 but did not get the chance because a roster spot when to someone else. I hate to name players, but I am baffled at Ryan Reilly getting his spot with the Gophers. I am sure he is a great kid. He is probably a hard worker. He is probably a great teammate. All of this is probably true of Lou Nanne as well. Do they deserve that D1 opportunity? Sure they do because of all of those qualities. Are there other players who are just as deserving who perhaps are better players? I would say yes. If livin's son is competing against the Reilly or Nanne name, who do you think is going to get that roster spot?

I remember Jake Sampson from Edina was one of the top scorers in the Elite League a few years back and he ended up not playing college. I don't know what those circumstances were; maybe he did not want to play anymore. But he was a wonderful player and proved his ability at the top level and did not move on.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:15 pm

Bafata -

Do you understand that the gophers, and every other d1 can't have all 25-26 players that are top line quality? Do you also understand that there are only 18 scholarships for men's hockey?

I will guarantee you says Ryan Reilly is not getting a FULL scholarship!! Just like it would surprise me if Louie nanne gets a FULL scholarship. Sometimes you need those guys willing to play on the 4th line or 5th line (practice line). That's where Ryan Reilly, Christian horn, and maybe Louie. These kids will accept their role, and work hard to hopefully play someday. If you have a top quality kid in this spot they won't accept their role the same.

This is why it bothers me so much about the stuff people say on here, cause they really don't know much at all.

bafata88
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Post by bafata88 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:25 pm

Holy smokes Tigers, did you even read my post? Relax about your impressive understanding of hockey. You honestly think that there are not one hundred kids who are as good if not better than your boys who are so happy to be on a 5th line that would die for those roster spots?

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