WHL

[MoreCowBell]

So you want to consider sending your kid to the WHL, well a good HS hockey player recently gave up his amateur status to make his name in the Dub and it backfired. Case in point, a fine junior to be player from Bemidji gave up his amateur status to give the WHL a chance, and what does he get, cut from the team with his options completely limited. Please people check your options out before you take this route.

[oldschoolpuckster]

For this year...if he's only a Junior in HS that would make him 16 or 17. He has 3-4 more years to make it. He can play USHL, NAHL, NA3HL, etc...until next years tryouts. Who knows, he may get a call from one of 90 other teams.
I would assume that he will not give up and continue to pursue his dreams.

[Roy01]

If someone were to tryout for the WHL and be cut in tryouts without playing a game, does that still count against their eligibility? Or do they lose their eligibility the second they commit to WHL? Just asking out of curiosity.

[SuperStar]

I am quite certain that he would be eligible to come back to High School as long as he didn't sign any agreement, did not receive any bonus/money, play in any exhibition or regular season games... Unless Minnesota High School rules have changed...

I think its no different than trying out at USHL camp - Not 100% sure, but that's what I re-call.....

30 www.MSHSL.org 2013-2014
Minnesota State High School League
Official Handbook
200.00 Bylaws: Student Eligibility
Continued on Page 31
200.00

AMATEUR STATUS
Cross Reference: Bylaw 204 (Awards)
1. A student may not participate in League-sponsored activities unless the student is an amateur in that activity.
2. A student loses their amateur status in that sport and becomes a professional if the student accepts any of the following for
participation in school or non-school athletics:
A. a salary, cash or merchandise. (Actual and reasonable reimbursement for transportation, food and lodging when paid in
connection with travel to and playing in a contest are not violations. Golf is governed by the United States Golf
Association amateur rule.) A student may receive payment for officiating, instructing, teaching or coaching a sport
without losing their amateur status in that sport.
B. a share in the season’s profit.
C. an expense allowance for athletic tryouts.
3. It is recommended that awards and prizes for non-school participation should be of a symbolic nature. However, the
acceptance of an award valued at less than $100 retail when received for non-school participation will not constitute a
violation.
4. Student can not use athletic skills to promote or advertise products.
5.
Penalty:
A student who becomes a professional will be disqualified from further high school participation in that sport

[OnFrozenPond]

I am quite certain that he would be eligible to come back to High School as long as he didn't sign any agreement, did not receive any bonus/money, play in any exhibition or regular season games... Unless Minnesota High School rules have changed...

I think its no different than trying out at USHL camp - Not 100% sure, but that's what I re-call.....

30 www.MSHSL.org 2013-2014
Minnesota State High School League
Official Handbook
200.00 Bylaws: Student Eligibility
Continued on Page 31
200.00

AMATEUR STATUS
Cross Reference: Bylaw 204 (Awards)
1. A student may not participate in League-sponsored activities unless the student is an amateur in that activity.
2. A student loses their amateur status in that sport and becomes a professional if the student accepts any of the following for
participation in school or non-school athletics:
A. a salary, cash or merchandise. (Actual and reasonable reimbursement for transportation, food and lodging when paid in
connection with travel to and playing in a contest are not violations. Golf is governed by the United States Golf
Association amateur rule.) A student may receive payment for officiating, instructing, teaching or coaching a sport
without losing their amateur status in that sport.
B. a share in the season’s profit.
C. an expense allowance for athletic tryouts.
3. It is recommended that awards and prizes for non-school participation should be of a symbolic nature. However, the
acceptance of an award valued at less than $100 retail when received for non-school participation will not constitute a
violation.
4. Student can not use athletic skills to promote or advertise products.
5.
Penalty:
A student who becomes a professional will be disqualified from further high school participation in that sport

This is interesting. It is completely different than trying out at a USHL camp because USHL is considered an amateur league while the WHL is considered a professional league. If he was there longer than 48 hours, I believe he forfeits his NCAA eligibility, but I don't know if the same holds true for HS.

[SuperStar]

I am quite certain that he would be eligible to come back to High School as long as he didn't sign any agreement, did not receive any bonus/money, play in any exhibition or regular season games... Unless Minnesota High School rules have changed...

I think its no different than trying out at USHL camp - Not 100% sure, but that's what I re-call.....

30 www.MSHSL.org 2013-2014
Minnesota State High School League
Official Handbook
200.00 Bylaws: Student Eligibility
Continued on Page 31
200.00

AMATEUR STATUS
Cross Reference: Bylaw 204 (Awards)
1. A student may not participate in League-sponsored activities unless the student is an amateur in that activity.
2. A student loses their amateur status in that sport and becomes a professional if the student accepts any of the following for
participation in school or non-school athletics:
A. a salary, cash or merchandise. (Actual and reasonable reimbursement for transportation, food and lodging when paid in
connection with travel to and playing in a contest are not violations. Golf is governed by the United States Golf
Association amateur rule.) A student may receive payment for officiating, instructing, teaching or coaching a sport
without losing their amateur status in that sport.
B. a share in the season’s profit.
C. an expense allowance for athletic tryouts.
3. It is recommended that awards and prizes for non-school participation should be of a symbolic nature. However, the
acceptance of an award valued at less than $100 retail when received for non-school participation will not constitute a
violation.
4. Student can not use athletic skills to promote or advertise products.
5.
Penalty:
A student who becomes a professional will be disqualified from further high school participation in that sport

This is interesting. It is completely different than trying out at a USHL camp because USHL is considered an amateur league while the WHL is considered a professional league. If he was there longer than 48 hours, I believe he forfeits his NCAA eligibility, but I don't know if the same holds true for HS.

Interesting is right! I do see your point about the USHL amateur thing, thanks for clarifying.

So I went to the NCAA eligibility site. IF you do stay longer than 48 hours AND PAY YOUR OWN way and get cut - without taking a dime or signing anything then I think your good for the NCAA as well.

Major Junior, Amateurism and NCAA Eligibility

Q: I was recently drafted by a team from the CHL (which includes the OHL, WHL, and QMJHL) and they want me to sign a contract immediately. Is it okay for me to sign a contract even though I won't play for them this year?

A: No. Signing a contract with any professional team (that includes Canadian major junior teams) results in the loss of NCAA eligibility even if you never play a game for that team.


Q: I have been invited by a CHL team to their Rookie/Training camp and they have offered to pay for all my expenses, will this affect my eligibility?

A: You can attend (1) one, 48-hour, expense-paid visit per professional team. The 48-hour period begins when you arrive at the team's facility and ends exactly 48 hours later. While in attendance the team can supply you with expenses that include travel, hotel, food, equipment, and all costs associated with practice and off-ice training. You must leave the facility once the 48-hour time period has expired in order to receive an expense paid return trip home.

Click here for a checklist of all you need to know before attending a CHL camp.


Q: Can I stay at a CHL rookie/training camp longer than 48 hours?

A: Yes, provided you cover the cost of all expenses incurred, including cost for the return trip home, following the initial 48-hour time period.


Q: I attended rookie camp for a particular CHL team and now that same team has asked me to attend their main camp as well - will this affect my NCAA eligibility?

A: If the team covered your expenses at the rookie camp then you must cover your expenses at the main camp in order to remain eligible for NCAA hockey. You are only allowed to accept (1) one 48-hour expense paid visit/tryout per CHL team.


Q: I am going to a CHL camp and we are scrimmaging another team - can I play in the scrimmage?

A: No. While in attendance at a CHL camp/tryout, you may not participate in any scrimmages or exhibition games against outside teams. You may participate in an intra-squad scrimmage (i.e. a blue and white game).


Q: I was drafted in the in CHL and received a jersey, hat, and t-shirt in the mail - am I allowed to keep these items?

A: No, you cannot accept jerseys, hats, t-shirts, or any material benefits from professional teams without paying for them. If you have received items in the mail your options are as follows: Mail the item(s) back, pay the team for the cost of the item(s) or donate the item(s) to charity.
- See more at: http://collegehockeyinc.com/faq#chl

So basically a player can come back and play HS and College if he gets cut and doesn't sign anything, take money, pay his own way, play in any games outside of practice?

[oldschoolpuckster]

I assumed the kid signed and was then cut.

If you don't sign or play a game or scrimmage (need to sign to play), and you pay your own way (after the 48 hr. agreement) and then get cut you can come back to MSHSL or NCAA.

Bottom line...if you sign with a team, the CHL is your path.

[WCHBlog]

I am quite certain that he would be eligible to come back to High School as long as he didn't sign any agreement, did not receive any bonus/money, play in any exhibition or regular season games... Unless Minnesota High School rules have changed...

The player in question did sign an agreement, and did play in an exhibition game.

[SuperStar]

Well then, now we know. He is ineligible for HS & NCAA.

[TheSiouxSuck]

Kids always run that risk, sounds like they probably should have investigated what his chances were of playing before giving up his amateur status.

Anyway, looks like he landed himself a spot in the NA and his rights are still owned by the TCA's in the dub so thats always an option to return to them in the future.

[Nuts&Bolts]

Interesting info but how exactly does the high school league police this type of stuff? 48 hour rules or being able to go to one camp on the dime of the team is tough enough to track for the NCAA. Could Grandpa Lous trip with grandson to whatever dub team recently for some hockey talk and free golf along with grandsons skating with the team put HS and college eligibility in jeopardy. Probably could never be proved what happened or for how long but who would ever know otherwise?

[scorekeeper]

AMATEUR STATUS
Cross Reference: Bylaw 204 (Awards)
1. A student may not participate in League-sponsored activities unless the student is an amateur in that activity.
2. A student loses their amateur status in that sport and becomes a professional if the student accepts any of the following for
participation in school or non-school athletics:
A. a salary, cash or merchandise. (Actual and reasonable reimbursement for transportation, food and lodging when paid in
connection with travel to and playing in a contest are not violations. Golf is governed by the United States Golf
Association amateur rule.) A student may receive payment for officiating, instructing, teaching or coaching a sport
without losing their amateur status in that sport.
B. a share in the season’s profit.
C. an expense allowance for athletic tryouts.
3. It is recommended that awards and prizes for non-school participation should be of a symbolic nature. However, the
acceptance of an award valued at less than $100 retail when received for non-school participation will not constitute a
violation.
4. Student can not use athletic skills to promote or advertise products.
5.
Penalty:
A student who becomes a professional will be disqualified from further high school participation in that sport

There appears to be no gold standard for what is considered professional and what is considered amateur.

Certainly, the WHL considers itself an amateur league, while the NCAA classifies the WHL as a professional league. Not really based on anything that actually happens in the league, but hinging on the fact that it has players invloved who have signed professional contracts with professional teams.

It also appears, based on this post, the NCAA and MSHSL also have different definitions of what constitutes Amateur and Professional.

The NCAA may hold a different position, but based on the MSHSL's defintion, as posted here, Josh hasn't abandoned his "amateur status".

At least not according to the MSHSL's definition as posted here, which appears to revolve around a player accepting a cash and/or merchandise or profit shares in exchange for services.

There may indeed me another clause, but based on this criteria alone, Passholt hasn't violated anything.

[observer]

I thought the thread was about Sauer. Where's Passolt?

[scorekeeper]

I thought the thread was about Sauer. Where's Passolt?

Sauer played preseason games with the Tri-City Americans and Passolt played preseason games for the Prince Albert Raiders, but neither did anything that would alter their amateur staus as defined by the MSHSL. At least, not as defined by the passage posted above

[The Exiled One]

I thought the thread was about Sauer. Where's Passolt?

Reports were that Passolt signed and voided his NCAA eligibility, but he may have slipped through the gap in the definition of "amateurism" between the NCAA and MSHSL (which Super Star pointed out). It looks like he's practicing with the Crimson.

At some point, he'll either need to clarify with the NCAA that he has some eligibility, or more likely, he'll just get good enough to actually make a WHL roster.

[buttend]

I thought the thread was about Sauer. Where's Passolt?

Sauer played preseason games with the Tri-City Americans and Passolt played preseason games for the Prince Albert Raiders, but neither did anything that would alter their amateur staus as defined by the MSHSL. At least, not as defined by the passage posted above

Americans Ink Minnesota Prospect Michael Sauer
Aug 29, 2013


Kennewick, WA – Tri-City Americans Governor/General Manager Bob Tory announced today that the team has signed 16-year-old prospect Michael Sauer to a standard WHL Players Contract.

Sauer, a 5’11 165-pound forward from Bemidji, Minnesota, played last season at Bemidji High School of the Minnesota State High School League, appearing in 25 games and totaling 9 goals, 30 points and 30 penalty minutes. Originally listed by Tri-City in March, Sauer finished second in team-scoring as a sophomore. In two seasons of MSHSL hockey, Sauer has combined to record 16 goals, 45 points and 40 penalty minutes in 50 games.

http://www.amshockey.com/article/americ ... hael-sauer

[scorekeeper]

I thought the thread was about Sauer. Where's Passolt?

Sauer played preseason games with the Tri-City Americans and Passolt played preseason games for the Prince Albert Raiders, but neither did anything that would alter their amateur staus as defined by the MSHSL. At least, not as defined by the passage posted above

Americans Ink Minnesota Prospect Michael Sauer
Aug 29, 2013


Kennewick, WA – Tri-City Americans Governor/General Manager Bob Tory announced today that the team has signed 16-year-old prospect Michael Sauer to a standard WHL Players Contract.

http://www.amshockey.com/article/americ ... hael-sauer

Exactly. That doesn't violate anything listed here;

AMATEUR STATUS
Cross Reference: Bylaw 204 (Awards)
1. A student may not participate in League-sponsored activities unless the student is an amateur in that activity.
2. A student loses their amateur status in that sport and becomes a professional if the student accepts any of the following for
participation in school or non-school athletics:
A. a salary, cash or merchandise. (Actual and reasonable reimbursement for transportation, food and lodging when paid in
connection with travel to and playing in a contest are not violations. Golf is governed by the United States Golf
Association amateur rule.) A student may receive payment for officiating, instructing, teaching or coaching a sport
without losing their amateur status in that sport.
B. a share in the season’s profit.
C. an expense allowance for athletic tryouts.
3. It is recommended that awards and prizes for non-school participation should be of a symbolic nature. However, the
acceptance of an award valued at less than $100 retail when received for non-school participation will not constitute a
violation.
4. Student can not use athletic skills to promote or advertise products.

[rockcrusher]

As of this morning, Sauer has been released by the Brookings Blizzard according to the NAHL website. Where does he go now?

[The Exiled One]

As of this morning, Sauer has been released by the Brookings Blizzard according to the NAHL website. Where does he go now?

McDonald's?

[WCHBlog]

As of this morning, Sauer has been released by the Brookings Blizzard according to the NAHL website. Where does he go now?

I'm sure any number of AAA programs would be happy to take him. I'm surprised he didn't go that route from the beginning, because playing just a few shifts per game in Brookings was a really bad fit.

[Nuts&Bolts]

By the looks of it Brookings should release the entire team. I wonder if the kid asked to be released to get out of a bad situation or if he was cut. Hopefully he finds a path that can work for him.

[BP]

By the looks of it Brookings should release the entire team. I wonder if the kid asked to be released to get out of a bad situation or if he was cut. Hopefully he finds a path that can work for him.

He got cut.

[TheSiouxSuck]

As of this morning, Sauer has been released by the Brookings Blizzard according to the NAHL website. Where does he go now?

Heard he may be headed to cleveland to play tier 1 midget.

Im not entirely clear on how good midget tier 1 is, but it really cant be much better or may not even be on par, with a spot in the elite league and playing AA high school hockey.

If its exposure he was after, playing HS obviously worked since he was drafted as a sophomore to the USHL and was drawing interest from the Dub.

Just seems like a step back.

[keepyourheadup]

cart....horse

[JSR]

As of this morning, Sauer has been released by the Brookings Blizzard according to the NAHL website. Where does he go now?

Heard he may be headed to cleveland to play tier 1 midget.

Im not entirely clear on how good midget tier 1 is, but it really cant be much better or may not even be on par, with a spot in the elite league and playing AA high school hockey.

If its exposure he was after, playing HS obviously worked since he was drafted as a sophomore to the USHL and was drawing interest from the Dub.

Just seems like a step back.

Schattuck is Midget Tier 1 as one example... it's absolutely on par with Elite League and MNHSL AA hockey........... just like everywhere some are better than others but it's definitely on par.....