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Sartellcelly
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 8:12 am

sta uni's

Post by Sartellcelly » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:00 pm

Back to the initial contention: bauerman



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 47

New postPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote
here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top

I, too, would like to see more specifics that prompted this post. I'm not saying it's not true, I just want to see some substantiation.

anyone?

puckbreath
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: sta uni's

Post by puckbreath » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:11 pm

Sartellcelly wrote:Back to the initial contention: bauerman



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 47

New postPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote
here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top

I, too, would like to see more specifics that prompted this post. I'm not saying it's not true, I just want to see some substantiation.

anyone?
Exactly.

Otherwise, it's just a rumor on an internet board.

bauerman
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:06 am

Post by bauerman » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:46 pm

puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top
Do you have a link, etc. to this, or is it hearsay ?
This is not hearsay, I learned this from a member of the STA administration. STA had deceided to ignore the request if they had made state.I know STA students are not perfect but the taunting they receive concerning sexual preferences by other teams are off the charts compared to bouncing a mascot head that purposely came to our side of the rink.

puckbreath
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Post by puckbreath » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:44 pm

bauerman wrote:
puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top
Do you have a link, etc. to this, or is it hearsay ?
This is not hearsay, I learned this from a member of the STA administration. STA had deceided to ignore the request if they had made state.I know STA students are not perfect but the taunting they receive concerning sexual preferences by other teams are off the charts compared to bouncing a mascot head that purposely came to our side of the rink.
With all due respect, a claim of "I learned this......" doesn't add any validity to the claim.

Now, if this member of the STA admin. was quoted in an article about it, that would be a start.

Nuts&Bolts
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Post by Nuts&Bolts » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:01 pm

And we continue to press this issue why? Even if it were true it would be a foolish request by the MSHSL that hopefully would be dismissed by the school. Bless the freedoms of America, enjoy some hockey games and support your team. Had say WBL made it would they have been asked not to wear the blaze orange since they would stand out? Maybe the PETA folks would take issue. Move on. This is trolling and the streams are frozen solid.

puckbreath
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Post by puckbreath » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Nuts&Bolts wrote:And we continue to press this issue why? Even if it were true it would be a foolish request by the MSHSL that hopefully would be dismissed by the school. Bless the freedoms of America, enjoy some hockey games and support your team. Had say WBL made it would they have been asked not to wear the blaze orange since they would stand out? Maybe the PETA folks would take issue. Move on. This is trolling and the streams are frozen solid.
Such as discussions on an internet forum :wink:

Immigrant Fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:27 am
Location: G.R.

Post by Immigrant Fan » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:39 pm

Did someone really try to defend the conduct of the cadets?! Several years ago I naively walked into my first A session, taking my grandson to his first hockey game. I wanted him to cheer for a winner, so was directed to the St. Thomas section. The cadets and their parents were boorish and classless. They proved what tough guys they are by abusing an opposing team's cheerleaders while they were out on the ice. I guess they figured it was pretty cool dressing up in uniforms, performing as a unit, and picking on little high school girls.

I greatly regretted choosing their section for our seats. Needless to say, I explained to my grandson that he had just seen how not to act - as a man or as a winner. Yep, St. Thomas students appeared well prepared for the battles of life; I'm sure they can handle the threat of 16 year old girls, if the cadets out number them 10:1.

I will concede it was my impression last year they were not as abusive to the cheerleaders; just mocking and cat-calling/whistling. So, perhaps someone got a hint of a clue. Perhaps even that "class" can learn.
Not born here...
...but, would hate to leave

Cadets16
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:39 pm

Post by Cadets16 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:02 pm

Yes, cat calls and whistles to women are not super classy. Yet one has to remember that STA is just a high school. They are 500 teenage guys. The same derogatory and objectifying behavior towards cheerleaders happens at every school, but it is just amplified by the fact that the STA student section is only men.

I feel like the excessive cheering the Corps does when the cheerleaders comes out is actually done as more of a joke, playing into the "all-male school seeing girls for the first time" thing people put on STA.

Also, while some chants can get out of hand (the student body has actually been punished for this before), most are harmless inside-jokes with meanings known only by the Cadets.

celly93
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:47 pm

Post by celly93 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:07 pm

While I'm not as familiar with the antics of the STA students, I have a hard time believing that people would be this upset if it was any other school.

From what I've seen, they always seem to be the loudest and most engaged student section. Isn't that a good thing? Obviously being disrespectful isn't good, but I'd rather see a student section have some fun with the other team's mascot than text or sit the entire game. In 2011, the EP student section sat the entire quarterfinal. Do we really want that?

bauerman
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:06 am

Post by bauerman » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:18 pm

puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:
puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top
Do you have a link, etc. to this, or is it hearsay ?
This is not hearsay, I learned this from a member of the STA administration. STA had deceided to ignore the request if they had made state.I know STA students are not perfect but the taunting they receive concerning sexual preferences by other teams are off the charts compared to bouncing a mascot head that purposely came to our side of the rink.
With all due respect, a claim of "I learned this......" doesn't add any validity to the claim.

Now, if this member of the STA admin. was quoted in an article about it, that would be a start.
there is absolutely no question my statement is correct, i have an email from one of the very top administrators from STA to me admitting this was the case--I'm not going to publish this email on this fourm ,you can believe this or not but this is 100% true

HockeyBum
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:30 pm

Post by HockeyBum » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:47 pm

I am one northern fan that will miss STA, Hate to see them go out on top... and would have loved to had a chance at them again this year. They are great competition and if you get rid of anyone that can put a quality team on the ice all you have is a JV tourney. I would rather loss to a great team than win against a substandard team.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:42 pm

HockeyBum wrote:I am one northern fan that will miss STA, Hate to see them go out on top... and would have loved to had a chance at them again this year. They are great competition and if you get rid of anyone that can put a quality team on the ice all you have is a JV tourney. I would rather loss to a great team than win against a substandard team.
No question that as more quality teams like STA "opt up" the A tourney does lose some appeal for fans who just want to see good hockey.

HShockeywatcher
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm

Post by HShockeywatcher » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:23 am

bauerman wrote:there is absolutely no question my statement is correct, i have an email from one of the very top administrators from STA to me admitting this was the case--I'm not going to publish this email on this fourm ,you can believe this or not but this is 100% true
Was there a why in there?
If there was some behavior they wanted to stop, address the behavior. "Please don't have your students wear their school uniforms to the state tournament" seems really weird.

HappyHockeyFan
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Location: Lakeville

Post by HappyHockeyFan » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 am

I guess it depends on how you define "good hockey". Good hockey meaning a high level of skill or good hockey meaning two teams battling hard for team and school pride. I personally dont have any problem watching some lesser talented teams battle it out for a Class A Championship, small towns and schools is who Class A was meant for, not private school club teams comprised of a bunch of kids that weren't loyal to their own communities, friends and teammates.
It's not the Best players, it's the Right players! HB

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:44 am

HappyHockeyFan wrote:I guess it depends on how you define "good hockey". Good hockey meaning a high level of skill or good hockey meaning two teams battling hard for team and school pride. I personally dont have any problem watching some lesser talented teams battle it out for a Class A Championship, small towns and schools is who Class A was meant for, not private school club teams comprised of a bunch of kids that weren't loyal to their own communities, friends and teammates.
Personally, I think "loyalty" is way overrated these days, at all levels.

A select few of the bantam players - if they are good enough - will choose to "move up" to AAA teams, Ann Arbor, or whatever high school they believe will help them advance the most and get maximum exposure...and possibly in the process leave their community bantam team behind. In making this decision they believe it's the best option for them to improve and get to the next level.

Then. a select few of some of the best high school players may choose to "move up" to juniors - or some other "advanced" program - and in the process leave their high school "buddies" behind. It doesn't matter if they are leaving a public or a private school - in making this decision they believe it's the best option for them to improve and get to the next level.

Finally, a select few of the top D1 will leave their team early and move on to play pro hockey, either here in North America or Europe. Why? They believe it's the best option for them to improve and get to the next level.

The main point being, it's OK for players to chase the dream and select what they believe is the best option to get to that next level. Having several options to choose from to get there is a good thing - no one path is best for everyone. It just so happens that for some private high schools provide the right path, whether it be just for the hockey or some other educational or religious reason.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:53 am

Double post
Last edited by Nevertoomuchhockey on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:22 am

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Thank you. Finally the voice of reason.

It becomes aggravating to continually hear thread after thread on this forum turn against the kids and families for doing what they think is right for their family. Accusing kids this age of disloyalty and betrayal for choosing private schools (which may be completely hockey related or actually have to do with quality of education or religion or legacy or 100 other reasons) is so ridiculous it makes my stomach turn. As the above poster pointed out, we make decisions from mites to D1 and every camp, rink rat session, equipment we purchase or mile we drive along the way about the goals and direction we are hoping our child is headed for. In hockey, in school, in life. Every kid is different, every goal is different, every path is different.

So Johnny should stay at Roseville instead of Hill even though it ups his chance of both academic and athletic scholarship?
Jane shouldn't take a needs based scholarship at Blake based on her grades and hockey prowess at St. Louis Park?
Mr. Smith shouldn't consider an unconventional or online program for his child who struggles in a traditional classroom setting but is right at home in the arena???
These kids should feel guilty for their personal success, success at new private school, college success? Why, because they owe something to the programs their parents paid and volunteered for and supported along the way???

Association hockey was never designed to lock in future varsity players. It was to develop players, good bad rec or D1. Can you imagine the ire and anger of entire communities aimed at you because you transferred to new job or career after working at an entry level or internship position after college? Are you going to accuse me of "betrayal" when I leave for a better job for myself and my family?

The private school hatred is a joke here and elsewhere to a point. Good for ribbing and rivalries. But c'mon. Whether its jealousy your public school isn't as good or your kid doesn't have the skills to play at a private, whether you can't afford it or don't believe in it, whether you coached a now highly touted private school kid and aren't getting credit, whether your association is failing and you hate the way MN hockey is going in 2014 - get over it. Hate on the privates here all you want. We can take it. Be honest at least to yourself why it bugs you so much. But please, TO CLAIM A KID WHO MAKES THIS DECISION IS BETRAYING HIS/HER FORMER ASSOCIATION AND TEAMMATES, THAT IS JUST IGNORANCE. AND JEALOUSY. AND PETTINESS.

I enjoy having 15 teams to pull for every year because the kids my son has played with over the last 10 years have landed here, there, etc. Do I ever think "how awesome of a team would we have if these boys could have stayed together?" Of course. Do I ever think that could or should have happened? NO. And I promise you, people who know these kids and their stories and reasons for playing at x, y, or z NEVER question whether these boys betrayed anyone by moving on, moving over, or moving up.

bauerman
Posts: 117
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Post by bauerman » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:22 am

HShockeywatcher wrote:
bauerman wrote:there is absolutely no question my statement is correct, i have an email from one of the very top administrators from STA to me admitting this was the case--I'm not going to publish this email on this fourm ,you can believe this or not but this is 100% true
Was there a why in there?
If there was some behavior they wanted to stop, address the behavior. "Please don't have your students wear their school uniforms to the state tournament" seems really weird.
The reason given is that it made STA look special--which it is :wink: :wink: :wink:

HockeyBum
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Post by HockeyBum » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:46 am

Guys, it's not hatred, it's the same type of loving comments the STA fans are giving to the cheerleaders.

People always need to find someone to place below them so they feel better. The only difference is private schools are allowed to live by different rules. Fix that and you solve the issue.

Resolution: if you change associations, HS or any other level of hockey play for any reason you are not allowed to play Varsity or AA or your highest level of team. No loop holes. If you are making a decision for your future one year sitting out at a lower lever when your younger will not impact your long term development, games don't develop players practice does.. Also if your moving to a private HS you will have to pay an extra year of tuition then it will appear your making the move for the right reason. Also coaches recruiting would have to take a chance on players and plan one year ahead of time. Eliminate the open enrollment or physical move loop hole.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:55 am

HockeyBum wrote:Guys, it's not hatred, it's the same type of loving comments the STA fans are giving to the cheerleaders.

People always need to find someone to place below them so they feel better. The only difference is private schools are allowed to live by different rules. Fix that and you solve the issue.

Resolution: if you change associations, HS or any other level of hockey play for any reason you are not allowed to play Varsity or AA or your highest level of team. No loop holes. If you are making a decision for your future one year sitting out at a lower lever when your younger will not impact your long term development, games don't develop players practice does.. Also if your moving to a private HS you will have to pay an extra year of tuition then it will appear your making the move for the right reason. Also coaches recruiting would have to take a chance on players and plan one year ahead of time. Eliminate the open enrollment or physical move loop hole.
This answer contains the most bs I've ever seen on this forum, and that's saying something. I could go through point by point and explain the ludicrousness of your reasonings and suggestions, but honestly I feel too sorry for you. And for your kid. Bitter much?

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:59 am

MNHockeyFan wrote:Personally, I think "loyalty" is way overrated these days, at all levels.
Personally, the biggest issue I have is the double standard that mainly private schools get. People brag all the time about kids leaving for NTDP and their later success. You rarely hear a community brag about a kid that left their community, stayed in MN and had success.
MNHockeyFan wrote:The main point being, it's OK for players to chase the dream and select what they believe is the best option to get to that next level. Having several options to choose from to get there is a good thing - no one path is best for everyone. It just so happens that for some private high schools provide the right path, whether it be just for the hockey or some other educational or religious reason.
There are players that attend a specific private school for athletic reasons. Anyone who would deny that are not in touch with reality. But for people outside the walls to deny the reality of why many students are actually attending a school is being just as out of touch with reality.
No one is claiming athletics are not part of the decision either. If private schools were not part of the MSHSL and did not offer athletics, their doors wouldn't be open. And sometimes the athletic facilities/teams are the tipping point, but they are rarely the only reason. So many students attend school x because of family tradition, smaller classes, religious education, or many other things they deem important.
HockeyBum wrote:People always need to find someone to place below them so they feel better. The only difference is private schools are allowed to live by different rules. Fix that and you solve the issue.
Which rules are those?
A few years ago I'd say that you were right to a point, but with OE it is pretty much the same thing at this point. You have to sit out whether you transfer to a public or private school.
Last edited by HShockeywatcher on Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

puckbreath
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Post by puckbreath » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:59 am

bauerman wrote:
puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:
puckbreath wrote:
bauerman wrote:here is something that I think is really bizzare. The MSHSL asked STA adminisration that in the event that STA made the State Tourney to NOT ALLOW the students to wear their uniforms because it makes them look different. Well STA hockey team took care of that situation but think about that. The MSHSL has no problem with some bare chested face painted student but to wear a uniform stand at attention and salute during the national anthem--well thats just over the top
Do you have a link, etc. to this, or is it hearsay ?
This is not hearsay, I learned this from a member of the STA administration. STA had deceided to ignore the request if they had made state.I know STA students are not perfect but the taunting they receive concerning sexual preferences by other teams are off the charts compared to bouncing a mascot head that purposely came to our side of the rink.
With all due respect, a claim of "I learned this......" doesn't add any validity to the claim.

Now, if this member of the STA admin. was quoted in an article about it, that would be a start.
there is absolutely no question my statement is correct, i have an email from one of the very top administrators from STA to me admitting this was the case--I'm not going to publish this email on this fourm ,you can believe this or not but this is 100% true
Care to pm me a copy of this ?

puckbreath
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Post by puckbreath » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:03 am

HappyHockeyFan wrote:I guess it depends on how you define "good hockey". Good hockey meaning a high level of skill or good hockey meaning two teams battling hard for team and school pride. I personally dont have any problem watching some lesser talented teams battle it out for a Class A Championship, small towns and schools is who Class A was meant for, not private school club teams comprised of a bunch of kids that weren't loyal to their own communities, friends and teammates.

=D>


Always amused by the crocodile tears/hand wringing wept by so many on this board, about the a tourney, that have absolutely no ties teamwise to it.

hockey_is_a_choice
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:48 am

Post by hockey_is_a_choice » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:11 am

Yawn. The private versus public debate goes on year after year, especially at tournament time. This year is no different, even though there are no privates participating in the AA tournament and only two privates participating in the A tournament. The two privates participating in the A tournament play each other the first day of the tournament so then there will be only one private in a position to try to make a run at playing on Saturday. What does this tell us? There is a lot of parity in high school hockey these days.

The fact is that while some schools do recruit, both public and private, the recruiting usually takes place through the parents. The reality is that beginning a few years ago high school teams are filled with boys who have played hockey year round since they were mites. This change more than any other factor (including recruiting) has leveled the playing field among the privates and public schools that are located in wealthier communities or communities where it is hip to make financial sacrifices for junior to play hockey year round.

How and why people choose to spend their discretionary money is not the public's business. If I want to invest money in my local community and its association that is a good use of my time and treasure. If I choose to send my son to a private Catholic school twenty miles from my house to further his Catholic education that started in preschool in the local parochial school that is a good use of my time and treasure. If I chose a high school in part for the sports program, because sports are important to my son and our family, that is my prerogative, as long as I follow the enrollment and participation rules. Having options and making choices is perfectly acceptable.

That said, having acceptable options does not always mean people make good choices. This year, we have schools where boys migrated to because of their storied past successes that did not make the tournament. Specifically, there is a private school located off of highway 100 that has on its roster at least two boys who left their original private high schools to transfer to what they thought was a better hockey program. In the case of one of those boys, the school he left made the tournament. This boy will have the privilege of watching his former schoolmates play in St. Paul. Watching the tournament from the cheap seats will be a bittersweet experience for that young man. The young man will learn an important life lesson.

Many boys (supported by their parents) want to play for winning programs. They want to play in the state tournament. They are willing to chase their dream and change schools to improve their chances. However, they forget to consider some of the intangibles. When players leave their teammates to transfer to another school, their former teammates will want to prove that a mistake was made.

This year, again, a story exists beneath the story. Consider Stillwater/Hill and Eagan/STA, players lined up against former association and school teammates. The public school players had a chip on their shoulders and had something to prove to their former teammates. This psychology contributes to interesting games, side stories and debates about publics versus privates. Instead of complaining about private schools, we should all embrace that the public versus private debate makes the tournament (and high school hockey) more interesting.

In the end, you can be considered an elite player because of your skill level. You can chase more success and exposure and transfer schools in the quest to improve your chances of success, but, if you do not play team hockey, the only success you will have is skating the puck coast to coast with little to show for it. Skating past your open forwards, failing to make passes, failing to play both ways and thinking the game is all about you because you have great individual skills and are fast does not usually equal success, especially when you are one of many boys on your team who subscribe to the "me" approach to hockey, school and life.

I am looking forward to watching good team hockey in St. Paul this week. I will cheer for the boys and teams who play team hockey, regardless of whether they are public or private school teams. It's tournament time, the most exciting time of the year in Minnesota hockey. Enjoy!

urban iceman
Posts: 388
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Post by urban iceman » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:07 am

HockeyBum wrote:I am one northern fan that will miss STA, Hate to see them go out on top... and would have loved to had a chance at them again this year. They are great competition and if you get rid of anyone that can put a quality team on the ice all you have is a JV tourney. I would rather loss to a great team than win against a substandard team.
Then go back to open enrollment so the smaller schools can recruit like the St Thomas' do to even it up a little. The smaller schools can't help it if their hands are tied to enrollment, that doesn't make it a "JV" tourney. They for the most part follow the rules, whens the last time you saw an Eden Prairie player transfer to say, Northfield? I think the big school arrogance is what takes away from the smaller school tourney getting any respect. The A players are left out of mostly everything defining top hockey players i.e, Mister hockey, All Metro etc by even the Media Jackels : :evil:

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