2014 AP All State Team Announced

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cake83
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Edina

Post by cake83 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:41 pm

east hockey wrote:
almostashappy wrote:
cake83 wrote: I must have struck a nerve... I see now that with a soft conference, a soft mid season tournament, and soft section opponents that you've "played since the dawn of time," then yes, your schedule is well defended.

And since I usually have to explain things in simple terms for you to make sense of my posts, Bloomington Kennedy now skates in single A so my "edina math" is spot on (though this should be no surprise if you have ever looked at our standardized testing, SAT, or ACT scores).
Sorry, Einstein, but I'm done feeding the trolls. Try to convince somebody else that Mike Taylor dictates his school's conference affiliation and his team's non-conference schedule just so he can create buzz and allow his goalie to pad his stats. [-(
To anyone who thinks Eagan had a soft schedule, I say "leggo the crack pipe!"

Image

http://minnhock.com/strength.htm

Lee
VERY well played... I might not be giving Eagan all the credit they deserve, but as almostashappy's own post shows, they increased their typical schedule strength this year. They typically don't face a high volume of top talent though maybe they are working to change that.

I still think playing single A talent in the mid-season tourney and playing some of the weaker talent in your section (even if you do it every year) makes it difficult to measure a team's true ranking. Giving more than a quarter of your schedule to Bloomington Kennedy, Rosemount, Woodbury, Apple Valley, and East Ridge just seems like a missed opportunity to schedule some tougher opponents and join the ranks of the teams at the top of the list you sent.

It's worth noting on that list as well that it includes single A teams and teams from both conference that are located in remote areas where it's difficult to schedule games. With that in mind, there are only 60 some AA schools and Eagan appears to be listed at 13 on that list. Once you factor out the 50% of the field that may be considered "non-competitive" in the conference, there are only about 20 teams with real viable tournament aspirations on a given year. Being ranked 13 on strength of schedule maybe doesn't deserve to be called easy, it's also not so strong that this isn't worth review. As happy said, they increased the strength of their opponents this year and it sounds like it helped in the sections/tournament.

To go back to my original contribution to this post, I think having the hardest strength of schedule, being the state champion, and having as good and often better stats in similar games, Rohkohl deserves WAY more credit than he gets.

GoldenBear
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:38 am

Post by GoldenBear » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:11 pm

He is a state champion! He needs no more credit He will take that honor to his grave congrats to him. That being said I think he is the Trent Dilfer of hockey goalies. Not a back hand slap but it is what it is. He gets the last laugh. GB

nwhockey
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:22 pm

Post by nwhockey » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:45 pm

SquirtC'00 wrote:Cake, Rohkohl has very much inflated stats this year and it does not have to do with who they play. I am pretty sure that you would agree that he was playing behind one of the state's best defenses and was again last year when he got time. He saw on average 24 shots a game this year and lets be honest Edina's D does not let teams have very good looks on net so he was saving easier shots then lets say Shep who saw 32 shots on average and had a less experience D corps in front of him and still had great numbers. Rohkohl is a serviceable goaltender and is good enough to win state but he is not of the elite category and yes I saw Edina play over 10 times this year.
There might be plenty to dislike about Edina, but to consider Rohkohl as not elite and his stats "padded" is a joke. Let's look at something that doesn't have the homerism: pure stats. Rohkohl played 70% of his games against top-20 competition. He faced 576 shots against top teams (most of anyone in the state and over twice as many as Lindgren or Shepard) and finished with a save percentage >.911% (best of all senior goaltenders) in those games. Now let's look against him top-10 teams: .910% (top 5 in the state) nearly identical. Also, consider the fact that the team most of you saw winning the state championship was a much different team that started the season (and its really reflected in GA stats). Edina at the beginning of the year was not a great defensive team. Returning only one starter from last year's regular season d corps (foley, remember nanne was a forward until sections last year) they played as talented, but inexperienced defensively through most of the season. It really didn't take effect until the Hill Murray beatdown that they tightened up and really played as a defensive team. It reflects in their stats: 16 goals allowed in the last 14. Point being, rohkohl didn't sit behind a defensive juggernaut all season...it was more like he spent the first 60% of the season on a hyper aggressive team that was willing to give up a handful of odd man rushes a night to constantly pinch and put pressure on the other team. This is not to say he is the best in the state, but looking at his performance this year truly objectively, he along with Lindgren, Driscoll, and Ahrens were probably the elite goaltenders. There is no reason to belittle a kid simply because you don't like his team. The proof for him is in the pudding

hshockeyfan8
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:51 am

Post by hshockeyfan8 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:04 pm

nwhockey wrote:
SquirtC'00 wrote:Cake, Rohkohl has very much inflated stats this year and it does not have to do with who they play. I am pretty sure that you would agree that he was playing behind one of the state's best defenses and was again last year when he got time. He saw on average 24 shots a game this year and lets be honest Edina's D does not let teams have very good looks on net so he was saving easier shots then lets say Shep who saw 32 shots on average and had a less experience D corps in front of him and still had great numbers. Rohkohl is a serviceable goaltender and is good enough to win state but he is not of the elite category and yes I saw Edina play over 10 times this year.
There might be plenty to dislike about Edina, but to consider Rohkohl as not elite and his stats "padded" is a joke. Let's look at something that doesn't have the homerism: pure stats. Rohkohl played 70% of his games against top-20 competition. He faced 576 shots against top teams (most of anyone in the state and over twice as many as Lindgren or Shepard) and finished with a save percentage >.911% (best of all senior goaltenders) in those games. Now let's look against him top-10 teams: .910% (top 5 in the state) nearly identical. Also, consider the fact that the team most of you saw winning the state championship was a much different team that started the season (and its really reflected in GA stats). Edina at the beginning of the year was not a great defensive team. Returning only one starter from last year's regular season d corps (foley, remember nanne was a forward until sections last year) they played as talented, but inexperienced defensively through most of the season. It really didn't take effect until the Hill Murray beatdown that they tightened up and really played as a defensive team. It reflects in their stats: 16 goals allowed in the last 14. Point being, rohkohl didn't sit behind a defensive juggernaut all season...it was more like he spent the first 60% of the season on a hyper aggressive team that was willing to give up a handful of odd man rushes a night to constantly pinch and put pressure on the other team. This is not to say he is the best in the state, but looking at his performance this year truly objectively, he along with Lindgren, Driscoll, and Ahrens were probably the elite goaltenders. There is no reason to belittle a kid simply because you don't like his team. The proof for him is in the pudding
Love the people who think that stats can show how good a goaltender is. They don't, and any scout from juniors to pros will tell you the same. Rohkol is a good goalie, but not elite.

nwhockey
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:22 pm

Post by nwhockey » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:24 pm

hshockeyfan8 wrote: Love the people who think that stats can show how good a goaltender is. They don't, and any scout from juniors to pros will tell you the same. Rohkol is a good goalie, but not elite.
Love the people who think stats don't matter. You're right, they are not a complete picture of a goalies skill. They're just the best indicator. Good goalies have good stats, period.

SquirtC'00
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:19 pm

Post by SquirtC'00 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:34 pm

nwhockey wrote:
SquirtC'00 wrote:Cake, Rohkohl has very much inflated stats this year and it does not have to do with who they play. I am pretty sure that you would agree that he was playing behind one of the state's best defenses and was again last year when he got time. He saw on average 24 shots a game this year and lets be honest Edina's D does not let teams have very good looks on net so he was saving easier shots then lets say Shep who saw 32 shots on average and had a less experience D corps in front of him and still had great numbers. Rohkohl is a serviceable goaltender and is good enough to win state but he is not of the elite category and yes I saw Edina play over 10 times this year.
There might be plenty to dislike about Edina, but to consider Rohkohl as not elite and his stats "padded" is a joke. Let's look at something that doesn't have the homerism: pure stats. Rohkohl played 70% of his games against top-20 competition. He faced 576 shots against top teams (most of anyone in the state and over twice as many as Lindgren or Shepard) and finished with a save percentage >.911% (best of all senior goaltenders) in those games. Now let's look against him top-10 teams: .910% (top 5 in the state) nearly identical. Also, consider the fact that the team most of you saw winning the state championship was a much different team that started the season (and its really reflected in GA stats). Edina at the beginning of the year was not a great defensive team. Returning only one starter from last year's regular season d corps (foley, remember nanne was a forward until sections last year) they played as talented, but inexperienced defensively through most of the season. It really didn't take effect until the Hill Murray beatdown that they tightened up and really played as a defensive team. It reflects in their stats: 16 goals allowed in the last 14. Point being, rohkohl didn't sit behind a defensive juggernaut all season...it was more like he spent the first 60% of the season on a hyper aggressive team that was willing to give up a handful of odd man rushes a night to constantly pinch and put pressure on the other team. This is not to say he is the best in the state, but looking at his performance this year truly objectively, he along with Lindgren, Driscoll, and Ahrens were probably the elite goaltenders. There is no reason to belittle a kid simply because you don't like his team. The proof for him is in the pudding
Ok I saw Edina play 11/23 Wayzata, 12/3 Prior Lake, 12/19 Grand Rapids, 12/20 Elk River, 12/27 Burnsville, 1/4 White Bear Lake, 1/30 Eden Prairie, 2/6 Wayzata, 2/26 Jefferson, 3/6 Stillwater, 3/7 Eagan, and 3/8 Lakeville North so I am pretty sure I can speak to how they played all season.

Ok in the beginning of the season the D corps was not as mature as what it became to be at the end of the season but that is no excuse for how the goaltender played the whole season. Rohkohl’s stats are a testament to how good his D in front of him became because like you said the D shut down at the end of the year. Also Edina did not let many odd mans even in at the start of the season compared to most teams. I would also never call an Edina player inexperienced considering that they all have played in state in probably all levels of their youth career.

Edina as a whole does not produce great/D1 goaltending (exception Connor Girard but even he was not elite when he was in high school). IMO goaltending stats do not tell you how a good a goalie is most of the time you have to see them play to know how good they really are. I also saw Shepard, Berglove, Lindgren, Driscoll, and Ahrens all of which stand above the rest. Rohkohl should not be considered an elite goaltender because he has good stats or because he is on a great team. He was just an average goaltender that let soft goals in all season (example, Grand Rapids, Jefferson, Prior Lake...) but he was good enough to win state this year.

WestMetro
Posts: 2909
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Post by WestMetro » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:00 pm

I always have 3 lines and 3 D pairs on my own all state picks, just like is needed in the hockey game. This years selections and omissions is a good example why 3 is better than two.

When considering the named kids and the omitted kids mentioned, it matches up pretty well to my thinking.

As far as Rohkowl, I think he and Shepard were the two best senior goalies.
Lindgren was better than both. Driscoll in the mix also.

hockeyoldtimer
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:47 pm

Post by hockeyoldtimer » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:15 am

I'll give you a reason Lindgren should have been chosen over Driscoll and Ahrens. . . He won the big one goal and over time games when his team needed him most. He beat CDH in OT and beat HM to get to State. Driscoll and Ahrens failed to do that in their Sectional games.
The sign of an "elite goaltender" is one who can win the big games. Lindgren did that and was cheated out of this award.

OneMoreYear
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:40 pm

Post by OneMoreYear » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:43 am

hockeyoldtimer wrote:I'll give you a reason Lindgren should have been chosen over Driscoll and Ahrens. . . He won the big one goal and over time games when his team needed him most. He beat CDH in OT and beat HM to get to State. Driscoll and Ahrens failed to do that in their Sectional games.
The sign of an "elite goaltender" is one who can win the big games. Lindgren did that and was cheated out of this award.
"Cheated" - really? Lingo is a great goalie and a great kid - he deserves every prop he is getting on here, but to say he was cheated, or as another poster said, the two goalies picked should "defintely be removed" is absurd unless you want to caveat it with an IMHO, something to which everyone is entitled.

Use whatever criteria you want (stats, OT record, value to their team, schedule, head-to-head), but a defensible case can be made for every kid mentioned thus far in this thread. If I had a vote, I would give it to Lindgren, but am neither foolish enough or arrogant enough to throw other kids under the bus or remove them elite category. They are all deserving....IMHO!!

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