Harsh Reality of Making it to the Show

[imlisteningtothefnsong]

Just some numbers on who are the top ten prospect from each pro team and where they are from....

2014
Major Junior (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) – 179
NCAA – 75
Europe – 46

[goldy313]

AHL ECHL and CHL are all pretty much lower salaries than most would earn with a college degree employed in their field. http://www.echl.com/faq-s-s12377

Based on a 490 hour work week you make $13-$15 an hour and that's for a seasonal job. There's some pretty interesting research on what delaying entering the workforce and establishing a pension/401K costs you in retirement making holding out for that NHL dream job more and more expensive each year.

[MrBoDangles]

Just some numbers on who are the top ten prospect from each pro team and where they are from....

2014
Major Junior (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) – 179
NCAA – 75
Europe – 46

You've said many times along that... " if you're good they'll find you, whatever your decision is"... Why not get an education while your playing?

I know you said your son "doesn't do well in a normal classroom setting" but doesn't that make it obvious why you're running with the WHL banner right now?

I would bet the farm that if your kid held a 3.7 you'd have a much different view and be looking at college programs.

That is the problem I have.

If more talented US kids from the east coast and southern states would stay home those numbers would flip flop. It's all where the TALENT decides to go.

You rally around your ONLY option like it is the best option, but in reality most CHL players won't make much/any money even if they make some level of pro hockey. And then their own stats show that less than 20% of them end up getting a degree in their lifetime.

I'm able to understand your "decision".

[MrBoDangles]

American born, Kane, went to the CHL
Canadien born, Toews, went to American College Hockey

Was there ever any doubt where they'd end up?

[MrBoDangles]

This has been a big selling point for NCAA hockey. A lot of Minnesotans who made the NHL went through the NCAA, but for those who didn't make the show, many have a bachelor's degree in hand.

And to throw a bone to the WHL fans of this board, yes, a bunch of the Minnesotans who went through the WHL made the show. And, a bunch earned enough scholarship money to get a bachelor's degree... but very few (none?) did both.

Percentages in the high teens in the late nineties to over thirty percent currently collegians. With a steady trend upward..

I'm wondering what leagues are taking the hit with former college players in the NHL going up? CHL, WHL percentages going down? European leagues? Something has to be taking a hit..

Trending numbers and a degree to boot.

Trending up.. What is going down?

[imlisteningtothefnsong]

Oh Dangle, once again this thread is not about any of my kids.... However since you bring one of them up repeatedly, my now 15 yr old has mustered up a GPA that at this point could get him into college. Nothing with ivy, but most of our state schools. However, this thread is about the harsh reality of making it to the show. The numbers I shared, must have intimidated you very much. The point I WANTED to make was those are ALL very few SLIM odds of going all the way. The 179 CHL scares you, but don't forget there are about 1500 +- players in those 3 leagues. That is still lottery odds if you ask me. These are just numbers, my highly sensitive and often focused on my very average players, just numbers. Pointing out that some players have left the state of hockey and done fantastic does not make it banner/flag waving. I have said it before and you even agreed, there is no secret recipe for success. The ones that have what it takes will make it in spite of everything and not because of anything. Also, for your on peace of mind, I do hope my kids all get degrees from some type of school, find good jobs, work hard, and grow up knowing their pops always waved their flags and is proud of them!!

[The Exiled One]

This post is NOT a commentary on ANY OTHER LEAGUE. However, I just wanted to give an example of the players from an NCAA team (18-14-5 and missed the NCAA tournament) ended up.

Brian Gibbons – NHL/Graduated
Benn Ferriero – NHL/Graduated
Ben Smith – NHL/Graduated
Paul Carey – NHL/Graduated
Cam Atkinson – NHL
Jimmy Hayes – NHL
Barry Almeida – AHL/Graduated
Andrew Orpik – AHL/Graduated
Joe Whitney – AHL/Graduated
Brock Bradford – AHL/Graduated
John Muse – AHL/Graduated
Carl Sneep – AHL/Graduated
Anthony Aiello – AHL/Graduated
Tommy Cross – AHL/Graduated
Tim Filangieri – AHL/Graduated
Nick Petrecki – AHL
Timothy Kunes – SEL/Graduated
Kyle Kucharski – ECHL/Graduated
Matt Price – ECHL/Graduated
Matt Lombardi – ECHL/Graduated
Edwin Shea – ECHL/Graduated
Malcolm Lyles – Graduated
Chris Venti - Graduated

That's a LOT of players whose hockey careers were (apparently) not harmed by playing in the NCAA. And, as you can obviously tell, their educational opportunities were not harmed by their pursuit of a hockey career. This isn't a dig on any other route. It IS a defense of college hockey.

[MrBoDangles]

Oh Dangle, once again this thread is not about any of my kids.... However since you bring one of them up repeatedly, my now 15 yr old has mustered up a GPA that at this point could get him into college. Nothing with ivy, but most of our state schools. However, this thread is about the harsh reality of making it to the show. The numbers I shared, must have intimidated you very much. The point I WANTED to make was those are ALL very few SLIM odds of going all the way. The 179 CHL scares you, but don't forget there are about 1500 +- players in those 3 leagues. That is still lottery odds if you ask me. These are just numbers, my highly sensitive and often focused on my very average players, just numbers. Pointing out that some players have left the state of hockey and done fantastic does not make it banner/flag waving. I have said it before and you even agreed, there is no secret recipe for success. The ones that have what it takes will make it in spite of everything and not because of anything. Also, for your on peace of mind, I do hope my kids all get degrees from some type of school, find good jobs, work hard, and grow up knowing their pops always waved their flags and is proud of them!!

FN' You were always the one bringing up you and your kid's situation on here... .... Half expecting to see a show on TLC about you...

I'm just of the same opinion that talent is talent. Send Bjugstad to the WHL and he'll still be a first rounder. Send Crosby to shattucks and he's still a first rounder. Send Seth Jones to North Dakota and he's still a first rounder. You have it or you don't. Most of the time nothing will change that by the time they turn 16..

Then there's the 83 to 20 college degree numbers to weigh in for the better decision. Very cut and dry.

Obviously just parental hype of a "choice" and trying to prove to himself (by numerous posts about it) that its a legit one.

[MrBoDangles]

This post is NOT a commentary on ANY OTHER LEAGUE. However, I just wanted to give an example of the players from an NCAA team (18-14-5 and missed the NCAA tournament) ended up.

Brian Gibbons – NHL/Graduated
Benn Ferriero – NHL/Graduated
Ben Smith – NHL/Graduated
Paul Carey – NHL/Graduated
Cam Atkinson – NHL
Jimmy Hayes – NHL
Barry Almeida – AHL/Graduated
Andrew Orpik – AHL/Graduated
Joe Whitney – AHL/Graduated
Brock Bradford – AHL/Graduated
John Muse – AHL/Graduated
Carl Sneep – AHL/Graduated
Anthony Aiello – AHL/Graduated
Tommy Cross – AHL/Graduated
Tim Filangieri – AHL/Graduated
Nick Petrecki – AHL
Timothy Kunes – SEL/Graduated
Kyle Kucharski – ECHL/Graduated
Matt Price – ECHL/Graduated
Matt Lombardi – ECHL/Graduated
Edwin Shea – ECHL/Graduated
Malcolm Lyles – Graduated
Chris Venti - Graduated

That's a LOT of players whose hockey careers were (apparently) not harmed by playing in the NCAA. And, as you can obviously tell, their educational opportunities were not harmed by their pursuit of a hockey career. This isn't a dig on any other route. It IS a defense of college hockey.

[JSR]

If you want a reality check see how many players actually make it to the NHL. There is a great website that breaks it down for you. If I am looking at the site correctly Only 5600 Players have played in the NHL since its inception. 5% have only played in one game (280 players) and over half have played in less than 100 games.

http://www.quanthockey.com/Distribution ... ngthGP.php

Brings it into perspective when you are looking at how tough it is to play at the next level.

You are 100% right.... but what if everyone single person out there used rationale logical thinking and thought "there is now way, it's too tough", wouldn't that mean there would be zero kids growing up to play in the NHL..... I prefer to keep the "reality checks" away from my kids and let them dream and follow their passions. I want to make sure they have great grades so they can go to college and be succeessful in whatever they do and I don;t want any doors to close for them as I internally know the realities but isn't best to let the kids try and "go for it"..... even if they fail to reach the NHL there are so many important life lessons that can be learned from giving everything you have to something that it can snowball into something else that they can become successful in.....

[MrBoDangles]

If you want a reality check see how many players actually make it to the NHL. There is a great website that breaks it down for you. If I am looking at the site correctly Only 5600 Players have played in the NHL since its inception. 5% have only played in one game (280 players) and over half have played in less than 100 games.

http://www.quanthockey.com/Distribution ... ngthGP.php

Brings it into perspective when you are looking at how tough it is to play at the next level.

You are 100% right.... but what if everyone single person out there used rationale logical thinking and thought "there is now way, it's too tough", wouldn't that mean there would be zero kids growing up to play in the NHL..... I prefer to keep the "reality checks" away from my kids and let them dream and follow their passions. I want to make sure they have great grades so they can go to college and be succeessful in whatever they do and I don;t want any doors to close for them as I internally know the realities but isn't best to let the kids try and "go for it"..... even if they fail to reach the NHL there are so many important life lessons that can be learned from giving everything you have to something that it can snowball into something else that they can become successful in.....

Canada should shut down the CHL and go with college hockey, then all can really "go for it" education and hockey wise.

Kinda a shame they let tens of thousands chase a dream with so many going without a college education. That's how nuts Canada is about hockey.

Just think, tens of thousands with a college education instead, and the same 1 percent that make the NHL.

[JSR]

If you want a reality check see how many players actually make it to the NHL. There is a great website that breaks it down for you. If I am looking at the site correctly Only 5600 Players have played in the NHL since its inception. 5% have only played in one game (280 players) and over half have played in less than 100 games.

http://www.quanthockey.com/Distribution ... ngthGP.php

Brings it into perspective when you are looking at how tough it is to play at the next level.

You are 100% right.... but what if everyone single person out there used rationale logical thinking and thought "there is now way, it's too tough", wouldn't that mean there would be zero kids growing up to play in the NHL..... I prefer to keep the "reality checks" away from my kids and let them dream and follow their passions. I want to make sure they have great grades so they can go to college and be succeessful in whatever they do and I don;t want any doors to close for them as I internally know the realities but isn't best to let the kids try and "go for it"..... even if they fail to reach the NHL there are so many important life lessons that can be learned from giving everything you have to something that it can snowball into something else that they can become successful in.....

Canada should shut down the CHL and go with college hockey, then all can really "go for it" education and hockey wise.

Kinda a shame they let tens of thousands chase a dream with so many going without a college education. That's how nuts Canada is about hockey.

Just think, tens of thousands with a college education instead, and the same 1 percent that make the NHL.

I am not disagreeing, I want my kids to get a college education regardless of what their hockey abilities are, good bad or otherwise but at the sametime I don't want to ever tell my kids they "can't" do something, it seems o me the kids who do make it had parents telling them they "can" and maybe that is a par of the equation people haven't broken down yet, I am not saying that by merely supporting your kids that they will make it to the show but I bet Patrick kane's dad never told him what the "odds" of making it were.... just sayin

[MNHockeyFan]

I am not disagreeing, I want my kids to get a college education regardless of what their hockey abilities are, good bad or otherwise but at the sametime I don't want to ever tell my kids they "can't" do something...I bet Patrick kane's dad never told him what the "odds" of making it were.... just sayin

If Patrick Kane was like most other teenagers, maybe trying to convince him that the "odds" were stacked against him and that he shouldn't try to beat them was exactly what inspired him to greatness!

[imlisteningtothefnsong]

"Canada should shut down the CHL"

I was trying, really trying not to touch that one Dangle. But what if all there was for options was the tourney, the USH and the Gophs. I am guessing that would a pretty exclusive, euphoric, and very small group of players. Now about the NCAA treat the CHL like the Canadien Universities do? These are amateur players making car gas salaries playing NHL schedule. Let the kids play a year of two then if they realize it's not in their future they can come back and play college hockey right here in MN. You could still say they were psycho for leaving and they could still get that degree and all the high salary jobs that price of paper provides.
Shut down the CHL..... Participation medals and juice boxes for everyone

[MrBoDangles]

"Canada should shut down the CHL"

I was trying, really trying not to touch that one Dangle. But what if all there was for options was the tourney, the USH and the Gophs. I am guessing that would a pretty exclusive, euphoric, and very small group of players. Now about the NCAA treat the CHL like the Canadien Universities do? These are amateur players making car gas salaries playing NHL schedule. Let the kids play a year of two then if they realize it's not in their future they can come back and play college hockey right here in MN. You could still say they were psycho for leaving and they could still get that degree and all the high salary jobs that price of paper provides.
Shut down the CHL..... Participation medals and juice boxes for everyone

Ill be all for the WHL option, once they don't take away the college time earned. Shady how its run right now.

WHL: The place where 18 percent earn/use a college education and one percent make it to the NHL.. I guess I have to question the parent that allows this path, not the kids, when you go from .5 to 1 percent between college and chl that make it.

Again, it's all where the talent goes. Bittner and Iverson go college and their numbers go up. They go WHL and their NHL numbers go up. All the talent goes to the AAA machine and everybody raves that its the best path.. All the talent goes and plays AAA for the Pink Lady Slippers and everybody will think its the greatest... Omaha u16 must be the greatest since they turned all those Nebraska farm kids in to studs..



Kids gotta love their parent's tunnel vision. How many kids would say "but dad, only 18 percent of kids that go WHL get a college education in their lifetime"..? Should be the parents that come out of the fog on this one...

Let the kids keep the college time they earned and they'll gain my respect.. I'll even become a fan of the league.

[MrBoDangles]

How bout this? Earn more than 800,000.00 as a pro you lose your college earned credits? Would seem fair... They're banking on most taking a stab at some level of "pro", right now.

Bet you'd see that graduation rate jump up to around 80%

-Paying the players "gas money"
-84 percent don't get education.. So no money lost there...
-the league gets money from the NHL

Sounds like a scam! Taking a lot of money in and banking on not having to pay anything out.. What a great business plan!!!

[BBB]

18% get an education and 84% don't?
...
Did you enjoy the 'dub?

[MrBoDangles]

18% get an education and 84% don't?
...
Did you enjoy the 'dub?

Two different sources, one being Canadien. Don't line up.., but what was given. Round to 20 and 80 if you'd like..

Do you enjoy wearing your pants above your navel?

[sagard]

If the sport were BB or FB, the NCAA would figure out a to keep MJ kids eligible. The only losers in the college vs. majors standoff is the kids, because their development choices are rationed due to some old rules.

The NCAA should allow kids who don't accept payment to play anywhere until they finish high school. Take a year of eligibility for each year a kid plays MJ after eighteen if you must.

MJ may lose some players, but they could also rid themselves of their education packages.

[BBB]

The stat doesn't pertain to hockey, but it does pertain to the value of education. My parents expected me to graduate college and I expect my kids to graduate college, whatever their hockey potential. I'm not saying college is for everybody, but for my family, it is.

On the other side of that maybe kids in prairie canada, where the whl is mainly based, have a different view on the importance of a college education. Having spent some time the area I have to believe its main industries are agriculture, oil, transportation, etc compared to what we're used to here in the cities. Were all surrounded here in the cities by finance, healthcare, banking, and other white collar industries. I hunted with a farm kid in Saskatoon who went and worked at "real job" in Regina but came back to farm as he made twice as much and it cost half to live. Maybe getting getting a ticket punched and working all week in a cube factory to pay a mortgage on an underwater house in suburbia isn't what some people consider success. My guess is don lucia has a different conversation with his kids sitting in wayzata talking about their hockey future than Daryl sutter does with his kids at the farm in Alberta.

[MrBoDangles]

The stat doesn't pertain to hockey, but it does pertain to the value of education. My parents expected me to graduate college and I expect my kids to graduate college, whatever their hockey potential. I'm not saying college is for everybody, but for my family, it is.

On the other side of that maybe kids in prairie canada, where the whl is mainly based, have a different view on the importance of a college education. Having spent some time the area I have to believe its main industries are agriculture, oil, transportation, etc compared to what we're used to here in the cities. Were all surrounded here in the cities by finance, healthcare, banking, and other white collar industries. I hunted with a farm kid in Saskatoon who went and worked at "real job" in Regina but came back to farm as he made twice as much and it cost half to live. Maybe getting getting a ticket punched and working all week in a cube factory to pay a mortgage on an underwater house in suburbia isn't what some people consider success. My guess is don lucia has a different conversation with his kids sitting in wayzata talking about their hockey future than Daryl sutter does with his kids at the farm in Alberta.

Valuable information for the numerous top end hockey players on Minnesota farms. Everybody else, not so much...

[BBB]

Possibly more valuable to you whose romantic view of the mn hs/ncaa hockey has kyle Rau's career ranked somewhere between crosbys and stamkos.

[BBB]

FYI there is probably a special on fsn this week about Dave spehar and the 96 Apple valley/Duluth east game if you're going through hs hockey withdrawal

[BBB]

Although I did notice a lot of bums at intersections in Saskatoon with cardboard signs that said "kneed help, 4mer dub player, God bless!"

[BBB]

I'm just of the same opinion that talent is talent. Send Bjugstad to the WHL and he'll still be a first rounder. Send Crosby to shattucks and he's still a first rounder. Send Seth Jones to North Dakota and he's still a first rounder. You have it or you don't.

And put kyle rau on the Patrick Kane itinerary and maybe he realizes nhl potential most people don't think 5-9 playmakers have. Maybe he learns to play a nhl type schedule and play against bigger, stronger players on nhl size rinks. Possibly mn has it's first 1000 pt nhl forward like every other hockey state, province, and country has. He will probably get a sniff of 20-30 games and or even have a Brian bonin 80 game career. We'll chalk him up to being too small for the nhl.
If bjugstad goes to the whl he goes #4 overall instead of johansen. If they pass on him the wild pray he lasts til 9 and we have a 6-5 North American forward who can fire the puck and not another euro.
Please tell me what benefit seth jones has in playing half as many games as 18 year old by going to North Dakota. Why should he spend a good part of his time focusing on some bs general courses at und when huge contracts and a pro career is in his future. Why not get drunk all spring in grand forks when the seasons over when he should be playing two more months 30 min a night, running a 1st pp in 7 games series.