Reebok HP 16's & 17s Spring Festival

Mite-dad · Post by **Mite-dad** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:35 am

Nuts&Bolts wrote:I think Mite-dad is talking about how Section 6 ran the tryout. It's somewhat routine in a tryout to stack one team primarily with kids you'll keep and put others on a team which you pick from. Makes it easier for the evaluator really having to watch one team. I'm not saying this is what Section 6 did but would argue this approach isn't right when there are only 4 hours of tryouts. Kids should get a chance to skate with some different line combinations. Some of the best teams this weekend at the festival had 3 kids from the same school on the ice together. Can't blame a coach for looking for chemistry as it only helps those kids but it is an advantage when you skate with kids you know.

Exactly. When we signed in some kids were given a dark jersey to wear over their HP jersey and some just wore there HP jersey. If it was random, it was pretty amazing that most of the skilled players landed on one team.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:37 pm

Mite-dad wrote:
puckbreath wrote:
almostashappy wrote:From Minnesota Hockey's "Ask the Expert" series:
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... r_id=86082
Looks like my campaign for next year's "best tagline" award has gotten off to an amazingly relevant start.
And if anyone believes that, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell ya.....

That fact that he even feels it necessary to state this, speaks volumes.
My kid tried out for the Section 6 team. I'm not here to cry that my kid didn't make the cut. My only complaint is that the predetermined teams were pretty stacked one way. One team was full of west Metro kids (Wayzata, BSM, EP, and Minnetonka) while the other team was the other kids (various outstate A, bantam A and B kids with a metro kid mixed in). I would bet 80% of the kids that made it were from the one team.

Same thing happened at section 4 green and blue,almost all green made it. teams were picked ahead funny thing was blue won all the tryout games

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:46 pm

Mite-dad wrote:
Nuts&Bolts wrote:I think Mite-dad is talking about how Section 6 ran the tryout. It's somewhat routine in a tryout to stack one team primarily with kids you'll keep and put others on a team which you pick from. Makes it easier for the evaluator really having to watch one team. I'm not saying this is what Section 6 did but would argue this approach isn't right when there are only 4 hours of tryouts. Kids should get a chance to skate with some different line combinations. Some of the best teams this weekend at the festival had 3 kids from the same school on the ice together. Can't blame a coach for looking for chemistry as it only helps those kids but it is an advantage when you skate with kids you know.
Exactly. When we signed in some kids were given a dark jersey to wear over their HP jersey and some just wore there HP jersey. If it was random, it was pretty amazing that most of the skilled players landed on one team.

you forgot coaches kid and their friends kids also on team with hand picked so called skilled kids!!

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:48 am

karl(east) wrote:
wolfman wrote:Shaver who cares about Flake and Dover. Where were the East kids?? I'm sure the East nation will tell us what's up.
East is deep with decent players, but not so much with top-end players. There are a couple others who were probably close, but didn't make it given the depth of quality players in 7A and 7AA--as the results show, the section is very deep at this age group. (I'm also not even sure if they all tried out.)

Also, pretty sure that, unlike ER, their talented bantams are too young for 16s.

Karl you are correct. The East boys will be at 15's.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:20 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
wolfman wrote:Shaver who cares about Flake and Dover. Where were the East kids?? I'm sure the East nation will tell us what's up.
East is deep with decent players, but not so much with top-end players. There are a couple others who were probably close, but didn't make it given the depth of quality players in 7A and 7AA--as the results show, the section is very deep at this age group. (I'm also not even sure if they all tried out.)

Also, pretty sure that, unlike ER, their talented bantams are too young for 16s.
Karl you are correct. The East boys will be at 15's.

Don't know what bantams your talking about but White bear and Stillwater were almost all second year players and 98's

Cdale · Post by **Cdale** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:17 pm

16's-
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... 16-rosters

17's
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... 17-rosters

preferhockey · Post by **preferhockey** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Looks like not much hockey played north of the Twin Cities. Oh wait breaking news changing name to Twin Cities High Performance.

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:19 am

preferhockey wrote:Looks like not much hockey played north of the Twin Cities. Oh wait breaking news changing name to Twin Cities High Performance.

Not sure why folks keep pissing their money away on this program, it has become quite a failed process for a talent rich state. There are better ways to spend your hard earned dollars.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:43 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
preferhockey wrote:Looks like not much hockey played north of the Twin Cities. Oh wait breaking news changing name to Twin Cities High Performance.
Not sure why folks keep pissing their money away on this program, it has become quite a failed process for a talent rich state. There are better ways to spend your hard earned dollars.

Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:12 am

Need to spend the money and bring in outside evaluators and coaches if this state wants to do it right.. You see it all through hockey where the buddy system gets kids through that have no right being there. A few of the sections seem to be dead on, but some seem almost bizarre.... But what can you expect when the coaches and evals are from inside the section?

Need change! (Not to be confused with the obama type change)

clean ice · Post by **clean ice** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:31 am

sometimes its as simple as name recognition . It seems they lined the kids up together that they wanted to see in the 54's. With that being said. I will say congratulations to the boys making it. They are all great players. . Just wait till they cut another 30 players . Then u will see the tears and hear all the injustices. Just enjoy watching ur son play the game and hope they stay healthy. Go Gophers...

skills_coach1 · Post by **skills_coach1** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:56 am

Bluewhitefan wrote:
Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.

I will say it does seem a little odd in certain cases... The other half and I sat down and were trying to put it in the frame of business... Basically each division in the Spring festival should net about 10K....Not including gate fees. I'd say that's not to bad a take... If our basic numbers and assumptions were correct...

All that said, there is legitimate exposure and ample opportunity for the kids to show off some talent. Unfortunately, tryouts are never an easy deal and no evaluator is immune from some bias. Just the nature of the beast.

Tripod · Post by **Tripod** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:16 am

skills_coach1 wrote:
Bluewhitefan wrote:
Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.
Okay. What players in the past have not made it to the Final 54, but have later on made it to D1 - meaning they were really good players but these evaluators did not pick them.

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:57 am

Tripod wrote:
skills_coach1 wrote:
Bluewhitefan wrote:
Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.
Okay. What players in the past have not made it to the Final 54, but have later on made it to D1 - meaning they were really good players but these evaluators did not pick them.
I can think of two, just off the top of my head.

Zach Yon (maybe Strand too ?)

Chris Forney

I'll add that I don't know the history of these guys re the program. I.e., did Yon/Strand even attend at all ?

hawkenjonny · Post by **hawkenjonny** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:10 pm

While I completely agree that this system needs some revamping if it is going to be considered legitimate and not just another money maker for some group, the exposure is good for the kids that participate, which can lead to greater opportunities later. I will also say that although the tryout process is completely biased for most ages (16/17 for sure), that I think most kids that are really the best players rise to this occasion to play with others that are the better players of each section. Some so called standouts in their own sections completely disappear and don't do anything against better competition. I don't really see those players on the 54 roster, not that I claim to be an expert on each section, just saying I think the talent ends up there despite some bias and the fact that some kids are obviously missed in the original tryouts.

25 sheet power · Post by **25 sheet power** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:16 pm

Tripod wrote:
skills_coach1 wrote:
Bluewhitefan wrote:
Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.
Okay. What players in the past have not made it to the Final 54, but have later on made it to D1 - meaning they were really good players but these evaluators did not pick them.
Brock Nelson

Tripod · Post by **Tripod** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:54 pm

Brock Nelson[/quote]

Common sense would have to say that most outstate players (especially slam-dunks like Nelson) wouldn't bother with this kind of stuff. Invited, but declined.

WCHBlog · Post by **WCHBlog** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:04 pm

25 sheet power wrote:Brock Nelson

I guess his relatives just weren't famous enough to get him picked...

Guys like Nelson or Chris Forney show the biggest bias at play in these things, and that is that it is very hard for kids with late birthdays to excel in these things when they're essentially one hockey year behind the older kids.

I'd guess most of the "misses" among kids that didn't get picked for HP teams, but went on to bigger things are kids born September or later or kids like Eddie Wittchow that were bigger and not coordinated enough to deal with all the 5'7" speedsters at that age.

So you have to decide what the goal of the program. Should it be to reward the players that play best in at the tryout, or help develop the players with the greatest chance of success long-term. If anything, looking at some of the players passed over suggests the tryout process is too focused on what a player shows in a three-game tryout setting and not as interested in his overall potential.

Or you could just complain because your kid wasn't picked.

almostashappy · Post by **almostashappy** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:19 pm

WCHBlog wrote: So you have to decide what the goal of the program. Should it be to reward the players that play best in at the tryout, or help develop the players with the greatest chance of success long-term.

I care far more about whether there is truth in advertising when it comes to whatever goal is established. Don't tell players/parents that advancement is solely based on how they perform during the tryout when the truth is completely (or at least partially) different.

I doubt that they'd be willing to be so frank, however. If more families knew that half of the 54 spots have already been predetermined, and that the other 130 kids are fighting for the remaining 27 spots, then they'd be less likely to chase those longer odds. And if the "festival" can't get the bodies (and the checks pinned to their bodies) then the revenue stream dries up.

25 sheet power · Post by **25 sheet power** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:24 pm

Tripod wrote:Brock Nelson

[quote\]Common sense would have to say that most outstate players (especially slam-dunks like Nelson) wouldn't bother with this kind of stuff. Invited, but declined.[/quote]

He tried out every year and was cut.

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:28 pm

almostashappy wrote:
WCHBlog wrote: So you have to decide what the goal of the program. Should it be to reward the players that play best in at the tryout, or help develop the players with the greatest chance of success long-term.
I care far more about whether there is truth in advertising when it comes to whatever goal is established. Don't tell players/parents that advancement is solely based on how they perform during the tryout when the truth is completely (or at least partially) different.

I doubt that they'd be willing to be so frank, however. If more families knew that half of the 54 spots have already been predetermined, and that the other 130 kids are fighting for the remaining 27 spots, then they'd be less likely to chase those longer odds. And if the "festival" can't get the bodies (and the checks pinned to their bodies) then the revenue stream dries up.

You're being kind................I'd bet it's more than that.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:03 am

Bluewhitefan wrote:
northwoods oldtimer wrote:
preferhockey wrote:Looks like not much hockey played north of the Twin Cities. Oh wait breaking news changing name to Twin Cities High Performance.
Not sure why folks keep pissing their money away on this program, it has become quite a failed process for a talent rich state. There are better ways to spend your hard earned dollars.
Money grab - plain and simple. If you and your kid aren't connected to the right people, you're wasting your money. Kids that did virtually nothing in the festival, make the final 54. Shameful.

I know some of the kids that made section 4 ever even touched the puck in tryouts. And 3 that owned the ice didn't make it. I was glad to see them get spanked at festival but wasn't that why Paulettie from Roseville was fired from High school?

hockey_is_a_choice · Post by **hockey_is_a_choice** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:14 am

I look at the HPs differently than some of you. First, I will disclose that while my son skated in the Spring Festival he did not make the 54s. Frankly, he did not deserve to make the cut. He skated poorly on Friday, well on Saturday, and okay on Sunday. Had he skated the way he did on Saturday for the other two days my expectations would have been different.

There was a lot of talent at PIC last weekend. I do not take issue with names on the 54 rosters. The kids who are on the rosters were mostly kids I thought would make the 54s, even the kids who did not try out. Sure, you can quibble with some of the picks but that is true in any selection process. The bubble kids who made the cut are interchangeable with the bubble kids who did not make the cut. For the boys who are on the outside looking in, keep working hard. For the boys who made it, keep working hard, because while you are good you are not that good.

As for the money side of the HPs, it is a fundraiser for Minnesota Hockey. There is nothing wrong with that apprach. No one held a gun to any family's head and forced them to sign up for the HP program. Frankly, I approached the whole financial side of the HPs with the attitude that it simply means I will die with less money.

As for my son, he came away from the experience believing that if he continues to work hard and get stronger and faster he can make the 54s next year. For me, that attitude is worth the price of admission.

preferhockey · Post by **preferhockey** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 am

Lots of good points, what stands out to me is how can only TWO yes 2 class A players make 16 54s, that is less than 4%. Considering almost 60% of teams are Class A. No do not expect 60% of be Class A but should be from 20 To 35% not 4%. System is bias towards Twin Cities and Class AA.

Hockeylogger · Post by **Hockeylogger** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:56 am

By my count I see 9 Class A players on the 16 54's. That is 17%, much closer to the % you are looking for.

I agree that the system is biased towards the Twin Cities and AA but some years you are going to have less Class A players, it all goes in cycles.

The 17 54's have 18 players from Class A, 33%.

I think if we didn't have the bias that exists for the Cities teams and AA teams we might see close to 50% some years.

But we all know if that happened the they would probably scrap the whole program because the powers that be would decide that it isn't working.