Class A Rankings 2-23-15

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Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Will another #1 seed not make it to state?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:33 am

1 - New Prague
4
11%
2 - Breck
2
6%
3 - Luverne
17
47%
4 - Mahtomedi
2
6%
7 - Hermantown
2
6%
8 - East Grand Forks
6
17%
No More Upsets
3
8%
 
Total votes: 36

MrGoalieBoy
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:22 pm

Post by MrGoalieBoy » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:59 pm

MrGoalieBoy wrote:
GopherPuck15 wrote:Luverne is indeed a team most people would love to cheer for..until you hear their fans talk and then you wish Saint Thomas was still in Class A to pound those ignorant people into the ground.
No matter how annoying their fans are, I don't think anyone would want Saint Thomas in class A...
Back in class A, I should say.

HOCKEYDRIVER
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:28 am

Post by HOCKEYDRIVER » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:07 pm

? Shouls St.Thomas drop back down ? They can't win enough at "AA"
2 years at AA, one year a NO SHOW!! 2nd ????
Maybe they come back to win.

notTONIGHT
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by notTONIGHT » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:45 pm

GopherPuck15 wrote:Luverne is indeed a team most people would love to cheer for..until you hear their fans talk and then you wish Saint Thomas was still in Class A to pound those ignorant people into the ground.
What offends you so much?

Whiner33
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:29 am

Post by Whiner33 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:51 pm

notTONIGHT wrote:
GopherPuck15 wrote:Luverne is indeed a team most people would love to cheer for..until you hear their fans talk and then you wish Saint Thomas was still in Class A to pound those ignorant people into the ground.
What offends you so much?
IGNORANT!

Thought Saint Thomas still was?

TTpuckster
Posts: 2539
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:26 am
Location: State of Hockey

Post by TTpuckster » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:58 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
bemused wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
rainier wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
Windmill31 wrote:
hawkenjonny wrote:Because that is playoff hockey? Maybe in your world there are no upsets or lopsided victories followed by tight games. Must be boring when the favorites always win. I wonder if you can stand to watch NHL hockey where every player is of the highest caliber? If there is any decent coaching at all, teams adjust particularly to their familiar opponents. Don't know what happened in that game as I am not from that area, but that stuff happens all the time up here. One game isn't a measuring stick for any team. These are kids, and by the look of Luverne's roster, YOUNG kids. You never know how they will respond to pressure. My own team is a study in the inconsistencies of a young yet talented team. I am still hoping to see the red mob back at the X.
I'm just saying that although underdog victories happen all the time and make playoffs fun to watch, Luverne isn't at the level to beat a team like Hermantown, Mahtomedi or even EGF. I don't think they are at the competitive level as any team in the tourney other than the team that comes out of 5A and possibly 1A. Also, I'm not using the redwood game as the sole measurement but just an example along with many other marks in the season. Lastly, you mention the youth of these players. These young kids from Luverne will evolve from very good young athletes into even better and experienced players. And if they stay, they will be fierce competitors in the following years to come.
Is anyone in the class of Hermantown? And what was the outcome of the game last year in state? Everyone wrote of Luverne in the quarters and the game was not a blowout.
This year's Hermantown team would beat last year's Hermantown team by 3-4 goals.
So Hermantown beat up on Duluth Marshall already twice by 4 and 3 goals, so they wont be challenged at state if they are only a half step behind. Might as well give them the trophy now. Ship it.
Don't do that !! let's give Plante a chance to blow another one…then they can stay in A until he retires!!!
They aren't moving up even if they actually beat Karma and finally win one. It will just be a new excuse to replace the old one.
Hermantown already won one Froggy. :roll:
What is a Green Wave anyway?

hawkenjonny
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:36 pm

Post by hawkenjonny » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:00 pm

GopherPuck15 wrote:Luverne is indeed a team most people would love to cheer for..until you hear their fans talk and then you wish Saint Thomas was still in Class A to pound those ignorant people into the ground.
Yeah... I can't really argue with the fact the the Luverne forum guys are pretty rabid, but I also can't help but love the story of a tiny town making a run at becoming a consistent hockey state contender in the part of our state more known for basketball and wrestling. The commitment of the players, families, and coaches to achieve what they have in a short period of time TOP TO BOTTOM (their bantams, PWAs, and squirts are all in the regionals) is impressive. The fans? Love em or hate em, I still support these kids and their hopes of getting back to the X. Even though my thawks crashed. Maybe next year!

pats12
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:53 pm

Post by pats12 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:05 pm

GopherPuck15 wrote:Luverne is indeed a team most people would love to cheer for..until you hear their fans talk and then you wish Saint Thomas was still in Class A to pound those ignorant people into the ground.
There's an ingenious idea, pick a school 4x as big that recruits the whole metro area to play Luverne to teach their fans a lesson. Might as well let Edina drop down.

Luverne is looking to improve their schedule, I'm sure Luverne would play them if STA would be willing.

And why do you sound so angry?

HShockeywatcher
Posts: 6848
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm

Post by HShockeywatcher » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:12 pm

pondhockeywizard wrote:Breck 7 losses to DM 5 losses.

DM beat Breck 2-0.

Why rank Breck ahead of DM?
The Breck/DM game was in November. A LOT of hockey has been played since then.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:16 pm

TTpuckster wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
bemused wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
rainier wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
Windmill31 wrote:
hawkenjonny wrote:Because that is playoff hockey? Maybe in your world there are no upsets or lopsided victories followed by tight games. Must be boring when the favorites always win. I wonder if you can stand to watch NHL hockey where every player is of the highest caliber? If there is any decent coaching at all, teams adjust particularly to their familiar opponents. Don't know what happened in that game as I am not from that area, but that stuff happens all the time up here. One game isn't a measuring stick for any team. These are kids, and by the look of Luverne's roster, YOUNG kids. You never know how they will respond to pressure. My own team is a study in the inconsistencies of a young yet talented team. I am still hoping to see the red mob back at the X.
I'm just saying that although underdog victories happen all the time and make playoffs fun to watch, Luverne isn't at the level to beat a team like Hermantown, Mahtomedi or even EGF. I don't think they are at the competitive level as any team in the tourney other than the team that comes out of 5A and possibly 1A. Also, I'm not using the redwood game as the sole measurement but just an example along with many other marks in the season. Lastly, you mention the youth of these players. These young kids from Luverne will evolve from very good young athletes into even better and experienced players. And if they stay, they will be fierce competitors in the following years to come.
Is anyone in the class of Hermantown? And what was the outcome of the game last year in state? Everyone wrote of Luverne in the quarters and the game was not a blowout.
This year's Hermantown team would beat last year's Hermantown team by 3-4 goals.
So Hermantown beat up on Duluth Marshall already twice by 4 and 3 goals, so they wont be challenged at state if they are only a half step behind. Might as well give them the trophy now. Ship it.
Don't do that !! let's give Plante a chance to blow another one…then they can stay in A until he retires!!!
They aren't moving up even if they actually beat Karma and finally win one. It will just be a new excuse to replace the old one.
Hermantown already won one Froggy. :roll:
They won that one with Hermantown kids. I said beat Karma and win one. You never know, it could happen this year. Parker Hawk (Open-Enrollee from Proctor) just put them up 2-0 on Marshall in the 2nd. Let's see if the other three Proctor kids and the Hibbing kid can get in on the action.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:08 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
TTpuckster wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
bemused wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
rainier wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
Windmill31 wrote:
hawkenjonny wrote:Because that is playoff hockey? Maybe in your world there are no upsets or lopsided victories followed by tight games. Must be boring when the favorites always win. I wonder if you can stand to watch NHL hockey where every player is of the highest caliber? If there is any decent coaching at all, teams adjust particularly to their familiar opponents. Don't know what happened in that game as I am not from that area, but that stuff happens all the time up here. One game isn't a measuring stick for any team. These are kids, and by the look of Luverne's roster, YOUNG kids. You never know how they will respond to pressure. My own team is a study in the inconsistencies of a young yet talented team. I am still hoping to see the red mob back at the X.
I'm just saying that although underdog victories happen all the time and make playoffs fun to watch, Luverne isn't at the level to beat a team like Hermantown, Mahtomedi or even EGF. I don't think they are at the competitive level as any team in the tourney other than the team that comes out of 5A and possibly 1A. Also, I'm not using the redwood game as the sole measurement but just an example along with many other marks in the season. Lastly, you mention the youth of these players. These young kids from Luverne will evolve from very good young athletes into even better and experienced players. And if they stay, they will be fierce competitors in the following years to come.
Is anyone in the class of Hermantown? And what was the outcome of the game last year in state? Everyone wrote of Luverne in the quarters and the game was not a blowout.
This year's Hermantown team would beat last year's Hermantown team by 3-4 goals.
So Hermantown beat up on Duluth Marshall already twice by 4 and 3 goals, so they wont be challenged at state if they are only a half step behind. Might as well give them the trophy now. Ship it.
Don't do that !! let's give Plante a chance to blow another one…then they can stay in A until he retires!!!
They aren't moving up even if they actually beat Karma and finally win one. It will just be a new excuse to replace the old one.
Hermantown already won one Froggy. :roll:
They won that one with Hermantown kids. I said beat Karma and win one. You never know, it could happen this year. Parker Hawk (Open-Enrollee from Proctor) just put them up 2-0 on Marshall in the 2nd. Let's see if the other three Proctor kids and the Hibbing kid can get in on the action.
Beautiful Pass from Wyatt Aamodt (Another Open-Enrollee from Proctor) to Ryan Kero on a 2 on 1. Hawks up 4-0 late in the 3rd.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:24 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
TTpuckster wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
bemused wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
rainier wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
Windmill31 wrote:
hawkenjonny wrote:Because that is playoff hockey? Maybe in your world there are no upsets or lopsided victories followed by tight games. Must be boring when the favorites always win. I wonder if you can stand to watch NHL hockey where every player is of the highest caliber? If there is any decent coaching at all, teams adjust particularly to their familiar opponents. Don't know what happened in that game as I am not from that area, but that stuff happens all the time up here. One game isn't a measuring stick for any team. These are kids, and by the look of Luverne's roster, YOUNG kids. You never know how they will respond to pressure. My own team is a study in the inconsistencies of a young yet talented team. I am still hoping to see the red mob back at the X.
I'm just saying that although underdog victories happen all the time and make playoffs fun to watch, Luverne isn't at the level to beat a team like Hermantown, Mahtomedi or even EGF. I don't think they are at the competitive level as any team in the tourney other than the team that comes out of 5A and possibly 1A. Also, I'm not using the redwood game as the sole measurement but just an example along with many other marks in the season. Lastly, you mention the youth of these players. These young kids from Luverne will evolve from very good young athletes into even better and experienced players. And if they stay, they will be fierce competitors in the following years to come.
Is anyone in the class of Hermantown? And what was the outcome of the game last year in state? Everyone wrote of Luverne in the quarters and the game was not a blowout.
This year's Hermantown team would beat last year's Hermantown team by 3-4 goals.
So Hermantown beat up on Duluth Marshall already twice by 4 and 3 goals, so they wont be challenged at state if they are only a half step behind. Might as well give them the trophy now. Ship it.
Don't do that !! let's give Plante a chance to blow another one…then they can stay in A until he retires!!!
They aren't moving up even if they actually beat Karma and finally win one. It will just be a new excuse to replace the old one.
Hermantown already won one Froggy. :roll:
They won that one with Hermantown kids. I said beat Karma and win one. You never know, it could happen this year. Parker Hawk (Open-Enrollee from Proctor) just put them up 2-0 on Marshall in the 2nd. Let's see if the other three Proctor kids and the Hibbing kid can get in on the action.
Beautiful Pass from Wyatt Aamodt (Another Open-Enrollee from Proctor) to Ryan Kero on a 2 on 1. Hawks up 4-0 late in the 3rd.
Aamodt has attended Hermantown since Kindergarten

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:08 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
TTpuckster wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
bemused wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
rainier wrote:
InYourFace09 wrote:
Windmill31 wrote:
hawkenjonny wrote:Because that is playoff hockey? Maybe in your world there are no upsets or lopsided victories followed by tight games. Must be boring when the favorites always win. I wonder if you can stand to watch NHL hockey where every player is of the highest caliber? If there is any decent coaching at all, teams adjust particularly to their familiar opponents. Don't know what happened in that game as I am not from that area, but that stuff happens all the time up here. One game isn't a measuring stick for any team. These are kids, and by the look of Luverne's roster, YOUNG kids. You never know how they will respond to pressure. My own team is a study in the inconsistencies of a young yet talented team. I am still hoping to see the red mob back at the X.
I'm just saying that although underdog victories happen all the time and make playoffs fun to watch, Luverne isn't at the level to beat a team like Hermantown, Mahtomedi or even EGF. I don't think they are at the competitive level as any team in the tourney other than the team that comes out of 5A and possibly 1A. Also, I'm not using the redwood game as the sole measurement but just an example along with many other marks in the season. Lastly, you mention the youth of these players. These young kids from Luverne will evolve from very good young athletes into even better and experienced players. And if they stay, they will be fierce competitors in the following years to come.
Is anyone in the class of Hermantown? And what was the outcome of the game last year in state? Everyone wrote of Luverne in the quarters and the game was not a blowout.
This year's Hermantown team would beat last year's Hermantown team by 3-4 goals.
So Hermantown beat up on Duluth Marshall already twice by 4 and 3 goals, so they wont be challenged at state if they are only a half step behind. Might as well give them the trophy now. Ship it.
Don't do that !! let's give Plante a chance to blow another one…then they can stay in A until he retires!!!
They aren't moving up even if they actually beat Karma and finally win one. It will just be a new excuse to replace the old one.
Hermantown already won one Froggy. :roll:
They won that one with Hermantown kids. I said beat Karma and win one. You never know, it could happen this year. Parker Hawk (Open-Enrollee from Proctor) just put them up 2-0 on Marshall in the 2nd. Let's see if the other three Proctor kids and the Hibbing kid can get in on the action.
Beautiful Pass from Wyatt Aamodt (Another Open-Enrollee from Proctor) to Ryan Kero on a 2 on 1. Hawks up 4-0 late in the 3rd.
Aamodt has attended Hermantown since Kindergarten
Yes he has. He also lives in the Proctor School District, which makes him an open-enrollee.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:15 am

Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:08 am

HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
I actually haven't said much on it lately. It's mostly been responses to other's posts. This was a response to TT Puck's eyeroll. Earlier in the season I was very vocal, yes. I couldn't sit by and read the posts about Hermantown being a "Small Town, Class A Program." without educating the people who don't know. Isn't that what this board is for? They have a HUGE advantage on the actual, "Small Town" teams. Only 4 Open-Enrollees and one Hibbing move-in on this year's Varsity Roster. That's 25% of the roster. But we aint seen nothing yet. This will double and go even higher in 4-7 years. 3 on the JV currently, 5 Bantams, 6 PeeWees and 10 Squirts currently from outside the Association in a Metro area of 100,000+ people. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they are all top players in the area. The youth coaches recruit like crazy. Parents are even open-enrolling them in Mites, so someday they can say, "Yes, we do live in Piedmont, or GMP, or Proctor, or Pike Lake, or Twig, or Grand Lake, but little Jonny has played in Hermantown since Mites."

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:24 am

Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
I actually haven't said much on it lately. It's mostly been responses to other's posts. This was a response to TT Puck's eyeroll. Earlier in the season I was very vocal, yes. I couldn't sit by and read the posts about Hermantown being a "Small Town, Class A Program." without educating the people who don't know. Isn't that what this board is for? They have a HUGE advantage on the actual, "Small Town" teams. Only 4 Open-Enrollees and one Hibbing move-in on this year's Varsity Roster. That's 25% of the roster. But we aint seen nothing yet. This will double and go even higher in 4-7 years. 3 on the JV currently, 5 Bantams, 6 PeeWees and 10 Squirts currently from outside the Association in a Metro area of 100,000+ people. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they are all top players in the area. The youth coaches recruit like crazy. Parents are even open-enrolling them in Mites, so someday they can say, "Yes, we do live in Piedmont, or GMP, or Proctor, or Pike Lake, or Twig, or Grand Lake, but little Jonny has played in Hermantown since Mites."
Interesting quote from Hermantown player Parker Hawk in today's Duluth News Tribune story about last night's game:

“I started at Proctor and came here when I was young..."

Plante may want to ease up on the whole "This team is all Hermantown kids" spiel he usually gives at the tourney.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:31 am

rainier wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
I actually haven't said much on it lately. It's mostly been responses to other's posts. This was a response to TT Puck's eyeroll. Earlier in the season I was very vocal, yes. I couldn't sit by and read the posts about Hermantown being a "Small Town, Class A Program." without educating the people who don't know. Isn't that what this board is for? They have a HUGE advantage on the actual, "Small Town" teams. Only 4 Open-Enrollees and one Hibbing move-in on this year's Varsity Roster. That's 25% of the roster. But we aint seen nothing yet. This will double and go even higher in 4-7 years. 3 on the JV currently, 5 Bantams, 6 PeeWees and 10 Squirts currently from outside the Association in a Metro area of 100,000+ people. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they are all top players in the area. The youth coaches recruit like crazy. Parents are even open-enrolling them in Mites, so someday they can say, "Yes, we do live in Piedmont, or GMP, or Proctor, or Pike Lake, or Twig, or Grand Lake, but little Jonny has played in Hermantown since Mites."
Interesting quote from Hermantown player Parker Hawk in today's Duluth News Tribune story about last night's game:

“I started at Proctor and came here when I was young..."

Plante may want to ease up on the whole "This team is all Hermantown kids" spiel he usually gives at the tourney.
He wasnt that young, open-enrolled in Bantams I believe.

My favorite quote of Plante's was, "People want to come here, I tell them to stay home." What he forgot to add was, "But if they do come, they will play, and a Hermantown kid will be cut."

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:50 am

The strangest part about Hermantown’s refusal to move up to AA is the crazy discrepancy between the schedules of their youth teams and their high school teams. I knew they played AA, but not until I looked at their schedules on Youth Hockey Hub did I realize how stark the difference is between their association teams and their varsity squads. What it reveals is eye-opening.

The Hermantown Bantam AA team has played 38 games so far this season, and not a single one was against a Class A team. That is insane. And their Pee Wee AA team only played 4 of their 45 games against Class A teams.

What does this mean?

It means that these kids will play more games against Class A schools during one three-week playoff run to the Class A title game in high school than they will in four years of Pee Wee and Bantam hockey.
What is wrong with this picture?

Who do the Hawk Bantams play? They play Edina and Eden Prairie, two of the largest, most dominant youth and high school AA programs in the state, a combined total of seven times. Also, they play 8 games against teams from 7AA. (The PWAA teams played 7AA teams 13 times.)

In sum, the Hermantown Bantams play:
0 games vs Class A teams
38 games vs Class AA teams
0 games vs 7A teams
8 games vs 7AA teams
7 games vs Edina and Eden Prairie


Tell me again where this team belongs? When these kids get to varsity they must look at the schedule and say things like: “What the heck is a Hibbing?” or “We play in Virginia? That’s gonna be one long bus ride out to the east coast!” All they know about these teams is that they were not good enough to be on their youth schedules.

If this is a high school team that is, according to Plante, “Where they belong.”, then why the major disconnect with the youth schedules? By playing such an intense, high-level schedule all through youth levels and then following that up with a relative cakewalk once the kids get to high school, one is left with only two possible explanations:

1. The players stop developing and/or regress as they move through the high school program, thus a significantly less rigorous schedule is justified.
or
2. It’s so much more fun to kick major butt vs weaker teams in Class A than it is to take the risk of not making it to state in AA.

Neither of these options is flattering for the ol’ Blue and Gold.

It seems as if this realization has begun to sink in to some of their youth players and their parents, as the recent defection of a handful of top bantams to Duluth Marshall–who enticed these kids by opting up to AA–shows. Clearly the youth association understands that the Hawks can compete well with the best in the state, and now some players and parents seem to be realizing it too.

If Plante continues his obstinacy over not opting up, then the bleeding of talent that has just begun may progress to a full-on hemorrhage, leaving him to discover that it ain’t as much fun to say “Class A is where we belong” when everyone agrees with you.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:44 pm

rainier wrote:The strangest part about Hermantown’s refusal to move up to AA is the crazy discrepancy between the schedules of their youth teams and their high school teams. I knew they played AA, but not until I looked at their schedules on Youth Hockey Hub did I realize how stark the difference is between their association teams and their varsity squads. What it reveals is eye-opening.

The Hermantown Bantam AA team has played 38 games so far this season, and not a single one was against a Class A team. That is insane. And their Pee Wee AA team only played 4 of their 45 games against Class A teams.

What does this mean?

It means that these kids will play more games against Class A schools
during one three-week playoff run to the Class A title game in high school than they will in four years of Pee Wee and Bantam hockey.
What is wrong with this picture?

Who do the Hawk Bantams play? They play Edina and Eden Prairie, two of the largest, most dominant youth and high school AA programs in the state, a combined total of seven times. Also, they play 8 games against teams from 7AA. (The PWAA teams played 7AA teams 13 times.)

In sum, the Hermantown Bantams play:
0 games vs Class A teams
38 games vs Class AA teams
0 games vs 7A teams
8 games vs 7AA teams
7 games vs Edina and Eden Prairie


Tell me again where this team belongs? When these kids get to varsity they must look at the schedule and say things like: “What the heck is a Hibbing?” or “We play in Virginia? That’s gonna be one long bus ride out to the east coast!” All they know about these teams is that they were not good enough to be on their youth schedules.

If this is a high school team that is, according to Plante, “Where they belong.”, then why the major disconnect with the youth schedules? By playing such an intense, high-level schedule all through youth levels and then following that up with a relative cakewalk once the kids get to high school, one is left with only two possible explanations:

1. The players stop developing and/or regress as they move through the high school program, thus a significantly less rigorous schedule is justified.
or
2. It’s so much more fun to kick major butt vs weaker teams in Class A than it is to take the risk of not making it to state in AA.

Neither of these options is flattering for the ol’ Blue and Gold.

It seems as if this realization has begun to sink in to some of their youth players and their parents, as the recent defection of a handful of top bantams to Duluth Marshall–who enticed these kids by opting up to AA–shows. Clearly the youth association understands that the Hawks can compete well with the best in the state, and now some players and parents seem to be realizing it too.

If Plante continues his obstinacy over not opting up, then the bleeding of talent that has just begun may progress to a full-on hemorrhage, leaving him to discover that it ain’t as much fun to say “Class A is where we belong” when everyone agrees with you.
Great post Rainier! What you failed to add in all your numbers for the Bantam AA team is their record in all those games are 14-26-3. And in their 8 games against 7AA teams they are 1-7. As you say "Is that where they belong?" Funny how stats work out that way.
With all that being said I do believe they should opt up as well. I was against it at first , but Single A hockey has become kind of a joke. If Hermantown goes then EGF, Mahtomedi and Breck should move up, then maybe it will be interesting again. Because its gone from STA to Hermantown then the next Bully of Single A. Take the current top 4-5 teams and move them up.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:50 pm

And by the way. The dominant Peewee AA team from Hermantown. 22-19-6
Against 7AA teams. 3-8-1. 2 wins and a tie come from Forest Lake. Maybe they truly belong.

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:15 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:And by the way. The dominant Peewee AA team from Hermantown. 22-19-6
Against 7AA teams. 3-8-1. 2 wins and a tie come from Forest Lake. Maybe they truly belong.
And by the way, that bantam team lost 4-5 of their best players early to Duluth Marshall. If those kids had stayed, Hermantown would be a top ten bantam AA team, for sure.

And by the way, Hermantown lost to #1 Centennial 3-2, lost to #2 Edina 3-2, beat #7 Prior Lake, and has two one goal losses to a Cloquet team that was top 10 most of the season. They may be losing games, but they are right there when they play these top AA teams.

And by the way, Do you know what Hermantown's record would be if their top team was Bantam A? It would look a lot like the high school team's record.

And by the way, that "struggling" Pee Wee AA team lost a one goal game to #1 ranked Mpls. Storm. They can play with anyone.

If Hermantown belongs in A, as you say, then why do they play such high-level schedules at the youth ranks? Why not go down to A where they "belong" and play the teams that they supposedly are best matched with?

Why does the class they "belong" in magically change once these kids hit 10th grade? Hermantown would likely have won the 7AA title 2 or 3 times over the past 6-7 years. Is that not good enough for you? Do you need to hang a banner every year in order to feel good about what your team has done?

C'mon, man! :D

HawkeyPower
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Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:53 pm

rainier wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:And by the way. The dominant Peewee AA team from Hermantown. 22-19-6
Against 7AA teams. 3-8-1. 2 wins and a tie come from Forest Lake. Maybe they truly belong.
And by the way, that bantam team lost 4-5 of their best players early to Duluth Marshall. If those kids had stayed, Hermantown would be a top ten bantam AA team, for sure.

And by the way, Hermantown lost to #1 Centennial 3-2, lost to #2 Edina 3-2, beat #7 Prior Lake, and has two one goal losses to a Cloquet team that was top 10 most of the season. They may be losing games, but they are right there when they play these top AA teams.

And by the way, Do you know what Hermantown's record would be if their top team was Bantam A? It would look a lot like the high school team's record.

And by the way, that "struggling" Pee Wee AA team lost a one goal game to #1 ranked Mpls. Storm. They can play with anyone.

If Hermantown belongs in A, as you say, then why do they play such high-level schedules at the youth ranks? Why not go down to A where they "belong" and play the teams that they supposedly are best matched with?

Why does the class they "belong" in magically change once these kids hit 10th grade? Hermantown would likely have won the 7AA title 2 or 3 times over the past 6-7 years. Is that not good enough for you? Do you need to hang a banner every year in order to feel good about what your team has done?

C'mon, man! :D
But those 4 kids are not there. So whats your point? If those 4 never left and 5 more came in maybe they would win it all!!!! And that does effect the High School team the next 2-3 years.
My point is that you made such a big deal about their schedule and failed to put in the most important thing. RESULTS. Wow they only lost by a goal or two. Big deal, they still lost. No "by the ways" for their 7AA results?? Did they not lose by enough in those games?
Their youth Level is no different then it always has been. They have always competed at the highest level of youth Hockey. Its just now Minnesota Hockey has made their levels to match what the High School is. 3-4 years ago it was A, B, C. Now its AA,A,B. Its still the same thing.

My son went to the X 3 years and had memories with his friends that he will never forget. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Sorry Hibbing cant get there as long as Hermantown is in 7A. I hope they move up. Getting to State once every 5-10 years will be great for them. They will be no different then Cloquet , Grand Rapids and the rest of the opt ups.

HawkeyPower
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Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:59 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:
rainier wrote:The strangest part about Hermantown’s refusal to move up to AA is the crazy discrepancy between the schedules of their youth teams and their high school teams. I knew they played AA, but not until I looked at their schedules on Youth Hockey Hub did I realize how stark the difference is between their association teams and their varsity squads. What it reveals is eye-opening.

The Hermantown Bantam AA team has played 38 games so far this season, and not a single one was against a Class A team. That is insane. And their Pee Wee AA team only played 4 of their 45 games against Class A teams.

What does this mean?

It means that these kids will play more games against Class A schools
during one three-week playoff run to the Class A title game in high school than they will in four years of Pee Wee and Bantam hockey.
What is wrong with this picture?

Who do the Hawk Bantams play? They play Edina and Eden Prairie, two of the largest, most dominant youth and high school AA programs in the state, a combined total of seven times. Also, they play 8 games against teams from 7AA. (The PWAA teams played 7AA teams 13 times.)

In sum, the Hermantown Bantams play:
0 games vs Class A teams
38 games vs Class AA teams
0 games vs 7A teams
8 games vs 7AA teams
7 games vs Edina and Eden Prairie


Tell me again where this team belongs? When these kids get to varsity they must look at the schedule and say things like: “What the heck is a Hibbing?” or “We play in Virginia? That’s gonna be one long bus ride out to the east coast!” All they know about these teams is that they were not good enough to be on their youth schedules.

If this is a high school team that is, according to Plante, “Where they belong.”, then why the major disconnect with the youth schedules? By playing such an intense, high-level schedule all through youth levels and then following that up with a relative cakewalk once the kids get to high school, one is left with only two possible explanations:

1. The players stop developing and/or regress as they move through the high school program, thus a significantly less rigorous schedule is justified.
or
2. It’s so much more fun to kick major butt vs weaker teams in Class A than it is to take the risk of not making it to state in AA.

Neither of these options is flattering for the ol’ Blue and Gold.

It seems as if this realization has begun to sink in to some of their youth players and their parents, as the recent defection of a handful of top bantams to Duluth Marshall–who enticed these kids by opting up to AA–shows. Clearly the youth association understands that the Hawks can compete well with the best in the state, and now some players and parents seem to be realizing it too.

If Plante continues his obstinacy over not opting up, then the bleeding of talent that has just begun may progress to a full-on hemorrhage, leaving him to discover that it ain’t as much fun to say “Class A is where we belong” when everyone agrees with you.
Great post Rainier! What you failed to add in all your numbers for the Bantam AA team is their record in all those games are 14-26-3. And in their 8 games against 7AA teams they are 1-7. As you say "Is that where they belong?" Funny how stats work out that way.
With all that being said I do believe they should opt up as well. I was against it at first , but Single A hockey has become kind of a joke. If Hermantown goes then EGF, Mahtomedi and Breck should move up, then maybe it will be interesting again. Because its gone from STA to Hermantown then the next Bully of Single A. Take the current top 4-5 teams and move them up.
And I did say they should move up now!

rainier
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Post by rainier » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 pm

My point is that Hermantown is producing enough talent to be in AA, at all levels. Yes, it effects the high school team, as in it means that Hermantown would not be as talented for a year or two. Welcome to Earth, my friend, where 98% of the teams experience these cycles and cannot punch their ticket to the X the first day of fall practice.

You seem to have fallen into the same trap that some of the STA defenders did. You think that competing in AA would somehow be less enjoyable than being in A because you wouldn't be winning all the time. Being inside the bubble, you don't see how hollow these victories become once you've proven all you need to prove at the lower level. I bet you can't find one STA fan that wishes they were back in A. They compete with the best now, and wouldn't dream of going back. It would be the same for Hermantown if they opted up.

Your quote: "They have always competed at the highest level of youth Hockey."

Then why don't they compete at the highest level of high school? No one forces them to be in AA at youth levels, they could be in A just like Hibbing, Virginia, Little Falls, etc. What other team that is Class A in high school regularly competes at the AA level in youth hockey?

Your quote: "Its just now Minnesota Hockey has made their levels to match what the High School is."

Okay, if the plan was to match to what high school is, then why doesn't Hermantown play their best team in A? That would match what the high school is. Why doesn't the Hermantown bantam team play any of the teams from 7A? It doesn't matter that they are a AA team, they can schedule all the single A bantam teams they want. Why don't they? Is it because they want their kids to get better by playing against the best competition? If so, what happens to this mindset when they get to high school?

I'm sure you and your son do have great memories. But you would also have had great memories winning 7AA and competing in the AA tourney. In fact, I bet the experience would have been much more satisfying than kicking butt all year in A and then losing to a AA caliber team anyway. Maybe not, but I think so. Ask a Roseau fan if they would have switched places with your team last year.

Am I annoyed that Hermantown greatly reduces my team's chances of getting to state? Absolutely, I won't lie. That's why I've said I wish Hibbing would opt up for the next two years. Not just because I think they will be competitive with the 7AA teams, but also because whether they are in 7A or 7AA, they will have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state.

Why can't you take the calls for Hermantown to move up as a compliment? I'm glad you want them to move up, but why are you defending them so much? If you truly wanted them to be in AA, then you would agree that the discrepancy between their youth schedules and their high school schedule makes them look terrible in the eyes of many hockey fans.

I have always liked Hermantown, but just as with STA, when some fans defend their team's "right" to keep sandbagging, that's when I get really annoyed and have to say something. When the calls came for their team to move up, the smart STA fans kept quiet and didn't draw any more attention than necessary to the fact that they were playing below their level.

Tripod
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Post by Tripod » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:59 pm

You can rest easy about Hermantown. This is Mahtomedi's year.. and next. Been tracking this team for awhile.

hshockeyfan53
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Post by hshockeyfan53 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:09 pm

Tripod wrote:You can rest easy about Hermantown. This is Mahtomedi's year.. and next. Been tracking this team for awhile.
Good! Now the entire state can hate on both Hermantown and Mahtomedi instead of Hermantown getting all the hate mail. :D

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