Class A Rankings 2-23-15

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Will another #1 seed not make it to state?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:33 am

1 - New Prague
4
11%
2 - Breck
2
6%
3 - Luverne
17
47%
4 - Mahtomedi
2
6%
7 - Hermantown
2
6%
8 - East Grand Forks
6
17%
No More Upsets
3
8%
 
Total votes: 36

elliott70
Posts: 13628
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Mahtomedi should move to AA.

Might as well start it now.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:40 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.

hshockeyfan53
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:28 am

Post by hshockeyfan53 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:47 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.
EXACT? Not quite. Not even close to STA. Private schools are a totally different discussion Froggy.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:09 pm

hshockeyfan53 wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.
EXACT? Not quite. Not even close to STA. Private schools are a totally different discussion Froggy.
Good point, they actually have to pony up $25,000-$30,000 per year to go to STA. The top players in the Duluth metro that open enroll to Hermantown just have to drive an extra 5-10 minutes to school every day.

hshockeyfan53
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:28 am

Post by hshockeyfan53 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:28 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
hshockeyfan53 wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.
EXACT? Not quite. Not even close to STA. Private schools are a totally different discussion Froggy.
Good point, they actually have to pony up $25,000-$30,000 per year to go to STA. The top players in the Duluth metro that open enroll to Hermantown just have to drive an extra 5-10 minutes to school every day.
Haha what a waste of money. In all seriousness though, you can't really compare the two. Private schools don't have a set district to get players from so they must go out on the hunt.

Anyone remember when Tom Novak scored against Hermantown in the 2013 final with 5 seconds left to win the game? In case everybody wasn't aware, he was a resident of River Falls, Wisconsin when that happened. Now THAT is private schools for you.

GoldyGopher
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:17 am
Location: Not Luverne

Post by GoldyGopher » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:00 pm

hshockeyfan53 wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
hshockeyfan53 wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.



EXACT? Not quite. Not even close to STA. Private schools are a totally different discussion Froggy.
Good point, they actually have to pony up $25,000-$30,000 per year to go to STA. The top players in the Duluth metro that open enroll to Hermantown just have to drive an extra 5-10 minutes to school every day.
Haha what a waste of money. In all seriousness though, you can't really compare the two. Private schools don't have a set district to get players from so they must go out on the hunt.

Anyone remember when Tom Novak scored against Hermantown in the 2013 final with 5 seconds left to win the game? In case everybody wasn't aware, he was a resident of River Falls, Wisconsin when that happened. Now THAT is private schools for you.
The players families aren't necessarily paying 25-30 grand for them to go to private schools though. They have plenty of scholarships and unanimous donors around that pay for talented athletes. Saw it first hand at Breck with a guy I graduated with.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:35 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.
I AGREE THEY SHOULD MOVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My issue is any thread that mentioned Hermantown you jumped in to complain. Here is a great idea... start a thread talking about Hermantowns open enrollment, instead of bringing it up in every thread that doesn't have anything to do with it. If you want me to I can start it for you.

HawkeyPower
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

Post by HawkeyPower » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:00 pm

rainier wrote:My point is that Hermantown is producing enough talent to be in AA, at all levels. Yes, it effects the high school team, as in it means that Hermantown would not be as talented for a year or two. Welcome to Earth, my friend, where 98% of the teams experience these cycles and cannot punch their ticket to the X the first day of fall practice.

You seem to have fallen into the same trap that some of the STA defenders did. You think that competing in AA would somehow be less enjoyable than being in A because you wouldn't be winning all the time. Being inside the bubble, you don't see how hollow these victories become once you've proven all you need to prove at the lower level. I bet you can't find one STA fan that wishes they were back in A. They compete with the best now, and wouldn't dream of going back. It would be the same for Hermantown if they opted up.

Your quote: "They have always competed at the highest level of youth Hockey."

Then why don't they compete at the highest level of high school? No one forces them to be in AA at youth levels, they could be in A just like Hibbing, Virginia, Little Falls, etc. What other team that is Class A in high school regularly competes at the AA level in youth hockey?

Your quote: "Its just now Minnesota Hockey has made their levels to match what the High School is."

Okay, if the plan was to match to what high school is, then why doesn't Hermantown play their best team in A? That would match what the high school is. Why doesn't the Hermantown bantam team play any of the teams from 7A? It doesn't matter that they are a AA team, they can schedule all the single A bantam teams they want. Why don't they? Is it because they want their kids to get better by playing against the best competition? If so, what happens to this mindset when they get to high school?

I'm sure you and your son do have great memories. But you would also have had great memories winning 7AA and competing in the AA tourney. In fact, I bet the experience would have been much more satisfying than kicking butt all year in A and then losing to a AA caliber team anyway. Maybe not, but I think so. Ask a Roseau fan if they would have switched places with your team last year.

Am I annoyed that Hermantown greatly reduces my team's chances of getting to state? Absolutely, I won't lie. That's why I've said I wish Hibbing would opt up for the next two years. Not just because I think they will be competitive with the 7AA teams, but also because whether they are in 7A or 7AA, they will have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state.

Why can't you take the calls for Hermantown to move up as a compliment? I'm glad you want them to move up, but why are you defending them so much? If you truly wanted them to be in AA, then you would agree that the discrepancy between their youth schedules and their high school schedule makes them look terrible in the eyes of many hockey fans.

I have always liked Hermantown, but just as with STA, when some fans defend their team's "right" to keep sandbagging, that's when I get really annoyed and have to say something. When the calls came for their team to move up, the smart STA fans kept quiet and didn't draw any more attention than necessary to the fact that they were playing below their level.
I don't think I can be any clearer then this "I THINK THEY SHOULD MOVE UP AS WELL"!! My issue was your argument for it. Showing their youth schedule , but failing to show their record wasn't a good argument. Their record currently at the youth level, especially against 7AA teams, is a better argument for them to stay where their at.
And I guess I don't get the link between AA Youth now and the old A level. So what your saying is if you play at the highest level at the youth level then you should play at the same level in High School. So a couple years ago the teams like Proctor, International Falls and such who decide to field a "A" team at the highest level should have played AA?
Lets look at last year. Both Hibbing and Hermantown had AA Bantam teams. Hibbing was 33-8-4 with a SOS of 93.13. Hermantown Bantam AA team was 20-16-4 with a SOS of 93.8. Should Hibbing have moved up?
My problem is everyone uses the new classification as a argument that they need to move up. Its the same as its always been.
Hermantown needs to move up because there is nothing else to prove at the A level. Like I said earlier, Single A would be more fun to watch if you moved Hermantown, Breck, Mahtomedi and EGF to AA. You remove the top 4 and Single A is more competitive.
Rainier I think I am being critical of your argument, but at the end of the day we both agree where Hermantown should be.

green4
Posts: 1477
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Location: Edina

Post by green4 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:38 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:
rainier wrote:My point is that Hermantown is producing enough talent to be in AA, at all levels. Yes, it effects the high school team, as in it means that Hermantown would not be as talented for a year or two. Welcome to Earth, my friend, where 98% of the teams experience these cycles and cannot punch their ticket to the X the first day of fall practice.

You seem to have fallen into the same trap that some of the STA defenders did. You think that competing in AA would somehow be less enjoyable than being in A because you wouldn't be winning all the time. Being inside the bubble, you don't see how hollow these victories become once you've proven all you need to prove at the lower level. I bet you can't find one STA fan that wishes they were back in A. They compete with the best now, and wouldn't dream of going back. It would be the same for Hermantown if they opted up.

Your quote: "They have always competed at the highest level of youth Hockey."

Then why don't they compete at the highest level of high school? No one forces them to be in AA at youth levels, they could be in A just like Hibbing, Virginia, Little Falls, etc. What other team that is Class A in high school regularly competes at the AA level in youth hockey?

Your quote: "Its just now Minnesota Hockey has made their levels to match what the High School is."

Okay, if the plan was to match to what high school is, then why doesn't Hermantown play their best team in A? That would match what the high school is. Why doesn't the Hermantown bantam team play any of the teams from 7A? It doesn't matter that they are a AA team, they can schedule all the single A bantam teams they want. Why don't they? Is it because they want their kids to get better by playing against the best competition? If so, what happens to this mindset when they get to high school?

I'm sure you and your son do have great memories. But you would also have had great memories winning 7AA and competing in the AA tourney. In fact, I bet the experience would have been much more satisfying than kicking butt all year in A and then losing to a AA caliber team anyway. Maybe not, but I think so. Ask a Roseau fan if they would have switched places with your team last year.

Am I annoyed that Hermantown greatly reduces my team's chances of getting to state? Absolutely, I won't lie. That's why I've said I wish Hibbing would opt up for the next two years. Not just because I think they will be competitive with the 7AA teams, but also because whether they are in 7A or 7AA, they will have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state.

Why can't you take the calls for Hermantown to move up as a compliment? I'm glad you want them to move up, but why are you defending them so much? If you truly wanted them to be in AA, then you would agree that the discrepancy between their youth schedules and their high school schedule makes them look terrible in the eyes of many hockey fans.

I have always liked Hermantown, but just as with STA, when some fans defend their team's "right" to keep sandbagging, that's when I get really annoyed and have to say something. When the calls came for their team to move up, the smart STA fans kept quiet and didn't draw any more attention than necessary to the fact that they were playing below their level.
I don't think I can be any clearer then this "I THINK THEY SHOULD MOVE UP AS WELL"!! My issue was your argument for it. Showing their youth schedule , but failing to show their record wasn't a good argument. Their record currently at the youth level, especially against 7AA teams, is a better argument for them to stay where their at.
And I guess I don't get the link between AA Youth now and the old A level. So what your saying is if you play at the highest level at the youth level then you should play at the same level in High School. So a couple years ago the teams like Proctor, International Falls and such who decide to field a "A" team at the highest level should have played AA?
Lets look at last year. Both Hibbing and Hermantown had AA Bantam teams. Hibbing was 33-8-4 with a SOS of 93.13. Hermantown Bantam AA team was 20-16-4 with a SOS of 93.8. Should Hibbing have moved up?
My problem is everyone uses the new classification as a argument that they need to move up. Its the same as its always been.
Hermantown needs to move up because there is nothing else to prove at the A level. Like I said earlier, Single A would be more fun to watch if you moved Hermantown, Breck, Mahtomedi and EGF to AA. You remove the top 4 and Single A is more competitive.
Rainier I think I am being critical of your argument, but at the end of the day we both agree where Hermantown should be.
The new classification at the youth level is not the same at all..... Before every team had an 'A' team and that was the best team the association had. Now teams like edina have a 'AA' which is what their best kids play, while there 'A' is like the old 'B1'
Teams that are smaller or that can't usually compete with the top programs don't have an 'AA' team, so their best kids play 'A'
So, basically if you think you can't compete with the best teams at the highest level, you have your best kids play the big association's B team.

pekyman
Posts: 540
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Location: Back 40

Post by pekyman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:38 pm

hshockeyfan53 wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
HawkeyPower wrote:Froggy, Hermantown must of really did a number to the Tadpoles team as of late. Good God we all understand you want Hermantown to move up, let it go! Someday it will happen, so just keep posting and your dreams for Tadpole will come true.
Let it go? Is that what you said two years ago? Coach Plante and the Hermantown people brought this all on themselves Hawk. They threw open the door, I'm just walking through. They shouted from the rooftops about the injustice of STA playing in Class A. About how unfair it was that they were playing with "Players from the outside." Now Hermantown is in the EXACT same boat, and you want everyone to just "let it go?" Sorry Dude, that's not the way it works. What comes around goes around.
EXACT? Not quite. Not even close to STA. Private schools are a totally different discussion Froggy.
I knew you were an STA tool. Ok all knowing Froggy , please educate us all on St Thomas Academy's youth program will you.
How many mites do they have?
How many Bantam and PeeWee teams do they have?
How many teams do they have to accommodate on their one sheet of ice?
Do they have enough locker space for all their teams?
How many volunteers does it take to run their youth prUogram?
Is it easy for you to get coaches, managers , etc for all your teams?
Any ideas on getting more involvement from your youth parents?
How/who schedules all of your youth tournaments/games, etc?
What software do you use?
How much do does their youth program pay in assessments?
How many time a season do your youth parents need to flood the rink and run the concession stand?
Where do all of your youth teams practice when it's too cold/warm of is no outside ice as I'm sure your youth program is bulging at the seams.
I have many more questions but this is a good start.

Yes, I for one am very interested in how STA does all those things as maybe Hermantown can use your program as an example to improve theirs.

An area where Hermantown could advise STA is recruiting as Hermantown has out of the 20 players on the HS team.
1 player that moved from Hibbing bought a house in HT as a sophomore and plays D
And
1 that came in as 1st year bantams and lives in Hermantown.
And
18 players that have played for Hermantown since they were in diapers. Yes it is truly a diverse group of top level players from all over the Midwest.

Yes, STA could learn much from Hermantown's recruiting and Hermantown could learn much from STA on how to run a successful youth program that will feed a successful HS team.
Also, it's common knowledge that most kids that open enroll into another school are leaving something more that they are going to something. Maybe you could help Hermantown address the issues in it's school/community that is causing so many to leave. If Hermantown could address the issues maybe families/kids would stay and it would benefit our Hockey program.

Again, Thanks so much for your help, and may the fleas of 1,000 dead camels infest your armpits


:evil:

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:58 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:
rainier wrote:My point is that Hermantown is producing enough talent to be in AA, at all levels. Yes, it effects the high school team, as in it means that Hermantown would not be as talented for a year or two. Welcome to Earth, my friend, where 98% of the teams experience these cycles and cannot punch their ticket to the X the first day of fall practice.

You seem to have fallen into the same trap that some of the STA defenders did. You think that competing in AA would somehow be less enjoyable than being in A because you wouldn't be winning all the time. Being inside the bubble, you don't see how hollow these victories become once you've proven all you need to prove at the lower level. I bet you can't find one STA fan that wishes they were back in A. They compete with the best now, and wouldn't dream of going back. It would be the same for Hermantown if they opted up.

Your quote: "They have always competed at the highest level of youth Hockey."

Then why don't they compete at the highest level of high school? No one forces them to be in AA at youth levels, they could be in A just like Hibbing, Virginia, Little Falls, etc. What other team that is Class A in high school regularly competes at the AA level in youth hockey?

Your quote: "Its just now Minnesota Hockey has made their levels to match what the High School is."

Okay, if the plan was to match to what high school is, then why doesn't Hermantown play their best team in A? That would match what the high school is. Why doesn't the Hermantown bantam team play any of the teams from 7A? It doesn't matter that they are a AA team, they can schedule all the single A bantam teams they want. Why don't they? Is it because they want their kids to get better by playing against the best competition? If so, what happens to this mindset when they get to high school?

I'm sure you and your son do have great memories. But you would also have had great memories winning 7AA and competing in the AA tourney. In fact, I bet the experience would have been much more satisfying than kicking butt all year in A and then losing to a AA caliber team anyway. Maybe not, but I think so. Ask a Roseau fan if they would have switched places with your team last year.

Am I annoyed that Hermantown greatly reduces my team's chances of getting to state? Absolutely, I won't lie. That's why I've said I wish Hibbing would opt up for the next two years. Not just because I think they will be competitive with the 7AA teams, but also because whether they are in 7A or 7AA, they will have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state.

Why can't you take the calls for Hermantown to move up as a compliment? I'm glad you want them to move up, but why are you defending them so much? If you truly wanted them to be in AA, then you would agree that the discrepancy between their youth schedules and their high school schedule makes them look terrible in the eyes of many hockey fans.

I have always liked Hermantown, but just as with STA, when some fans defend their team's "right" to keep sandbagging, that's when I get really annoyed and have to say something. When the calls came for their team to move up, the smart STA fans kept quiet and didn't draw any more attention than necessary to the fact that they were playing below their level.
I don't think I can be any clearer then this "I THINK THEY SHOULD MOVE UP AS WELL"!! Okay, sounds good.
My issue was your argument for it. Showing their youth schedule , but failing to show their record wasn't a good argument. Their record currently at the youth level, especially against 7AA teams, is a better argument for them to stay where their at.
No it isn't. Look how difficult their schedule is. Would any other Class A team have a record that good against that schedule? Orono, maybe. No team in 7A would win more than 5 games against that schedule. And because your "down" team can't beat two fantastic teams in Rapids and Cloquet, you cite that as a good reason why you shouldn't be in 7AA. This is what bothers people, this expectation by some Hermantown fans that if they can't be guaranteed of being the very best in AA, then there is no reason to move up. The reality for every other team in the state other than Edina, Hermantown, and Breck is that sometimes you're not going to be the best in your section. When Hermantown opts up they will learn this, and they will learn that the sun will still rise the next day.

And I guess I don't get the link between AA Youth now and the old A level. So what your saying is if you play at the highest level at the youth level then you should play at the same level in High School. Yes, that's what I'm saying. So a couple years ago the teams like Proctor, International Falls and such who decide to field a "A" team at the highest level should have played AA?
This statement makes no sense to anyone but you because you somehow believe that nothing changed in youth hockey when the AA division was added. The teams that play BAA now all play in Class AA for high school-except Hermantown. If you can compete well at AA in the youth ranks, then you can compete well in AA in high school. This should be doubly true for Hermantown, given that many top metro programs will lose kids to private schools and other transfers, yet Hermantown before this year never did.

Lets look at last year. Both Hibbing and Hermantown had AA Bantam teams. Hibbing was 33-8-4 with a SOS of 93.13. Hermantown Bantam AA team was 20-16-4 with a SOS of 93.8. Should Hibbing have moved up?

First off, I have repeatedly said this Hibbing group should be in AA in high school. And yes, let's look at last year. Take a look at the schedules these two teams had, and it isn't close. The SOS you give makes it look like there isn't much difference, but on that scale 0.67 is a big difference. Once again, Hermantown played zero teams from the class they claim to "belong" to, while Hibbing played 22 of their games against A competition. Also, Hermantown beat Hibbing 6-3 in their one meeting, a meeting that only happened because Hibbing opted up to AA and thus Hermantown was forced to play them in the region playoffs.

My problem is everyone uses the new classification as a argument that they need to move up. Its the same as its always been.
I couldn't disagree more and I invite you to find anyone outside of Hermantown that would agree with you. And officially, my argument for them moving up is that they would be a top 3 seed in 7AA every year, but the youth thing was just more evidence that they are more than capable of being successful in AA.

Hermantown needs to move up because there is nothing else to prove at the A level. Agreed, it just maddening that Plante doesn't see it this way.

Like I said earlier, Single A would be more fun to watch if you moved Hermantown, Breck, Mahtomedi and EGF to AA. You remove the top 4 and Single A is more competitive.
Breck should have moved up years ago. If Mahtomedi continues to field teams that can beat STA and HM, I imagine they will move up, but we'll see. And it's crazy to suggest EGF move up. As one of their faithful mentioned, this 2-3 year stretch of greatness is ending for them and they will go back to being an ordinary A team.

Rainier I think I am being critical of your argument, but at the end of the day we both agree where Hermantown should be. We do and I can't wait to cheer for the Hawks in AA just as I will do next week when they are at the X.

Locked