Reposting my Jan 3 suggestion, with a couple more tweaks.
Good year to do it with Duluth Marshall moving up anyway
This proposal reflects better geographic alignment in todays AA world.
Section 1 The SouthEast (8 teams)
Hastings
Park of Cottage Grove
Rosemount
Rochester Mayo
Rochester Century
Rochester John Marshall
Farmington
Dodge County
Section 2 The South Central (8 teams)
Owatonna
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Bloomington Jefferson
Burnsville
Prior Lake
Shakopee
Holy Angels
Section 3 The East Metro (8 teams)
Cretin-Derham Hall
Eagan
East Ridge
Eastview
Apple Valley
St. Thomas Academy
Woodbury
Tartan
Section 4 The North/Northeast Metro (9 teams)
Blaine
Centennial
Hill-Murray
Mounds View
North St. Paul
Roseville
White Bear Lake
Irondale
Stillwater
Section 5 The Northwest Metro (8 teams)
Wayzata
Anoka
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Buffalo
Section 6 The West Metro (8 teams)
Chanhassen
Edina
Benilde-St. Margaret's
Eden Prairie
Holy Family
Hopkins
Minnetonka
Robbinsdale Armstrong/Cooper
Section 7 Northeast Region (8 teams)
Andover
Cambridge-Isanti
Duluth East
Duluth Marshall
Forest Lake
Grand Rapids
St. Francis
Cloquet
Section 8 Northwest Region (9 Teams)
Bemidji
Brainerd
Roseau
Becker/Big Lake
Moorhead
Monticello
River Lakes
St. Cloud Tech
SMA
Revised AA Section Assignments 2015
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
I'm going to throw this at you and ask you go back and redo your work......
The MSHSL has 8 AA and 8 A administrative regions, these very rarely change. They administer section tournaments, have meetings, and run the day to day business of the sections. For example 1 AA has 16 schools and runs both the 1A and 1AA section hockey tournaments, 1A doesn't run any hockey, those 16 schools vote on where the tournament is played and other issues. As best as they can while maintaining balance schools are kept in their respective administrative regions. You're 1AA is ridiculous as you send 3 schools out and bring 3 schools in, frankly that's not happening. You may want it to but that isn't even feasible given the administrative regions.
Look at the administrative regions first and work from there.
The MSHSL has 8 AA and 8 A administrative regions, these very rarely change. They administer section tournaments, have meetings, and run the day to day business of the sections. For example 1 AA has 16 schools and runs both the 1A and 1AA section hockey tournaments, 1A doesn't run any hockey, those 16 schools vote on where the tournament is played and other issues. As best as they can while maintaining balance schools are kept in their respective administrative regions. You're 1AA is ridiculous as you send 3 schools out and bring 3 schools in, frankly that's not happening. You may want it to but that isn't even feasible given the administrative regions.
Look at the administrative regions first and work from there.
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WBLHockeyfan04
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:32 pm
I see an even easier fix. Take a good team from 6AA and swap them with a weaker team from 2AA. Put Duluth Marshall in 7AA and then move Elk River into 5AA. Put Centennial back in with the teams in 4AA, then take Tartan and move them into 3AA. Lastly, take one of the middle tier teams from 3AA and move them into 1AA. Problem solved, and we'd have more competitive sections with each section having 3-4 quality teams.
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Defensive Zone
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:37 am
I think the MSHSL board of directors should look at adopting the 6A football playoff format. The directors basically copied the NCAA basketball model 3 years ago, providing each team a No. 1-8 seed in one of four sections. From there, the teams are matched up in an overall bracket randomly chosen by the league.
In hockey you can do the same thing. Keep playing down to 16 and then to eight. That eight becomes the state tournament field. You can do this in class A and AA. Under this model, a team’s path from quarterfinals to the championship game is set.
Also, this model would rewards teams for their seed but it also rewards teams that get an upset victory and play above their seed. It should create a lot of excitement.
Adopting this format also offers practical advantages. Randomly drawing an overall bracket after the seeding process is completed prevents coaches from influencing matchups. Just a thought.
In hockey you can do the same thing. Keep playing down to 16 and then to eight. That eight becomes the state tournament field. You can do this in class A and AA. Under this model, a team’s path from quarterfinals to the championship game is set.
Also, this model would rewards teams for their seed but it also rewards teams that get an upset victory and play above their seed. It should create a lot of excitement.
Adopting this format also offers practical advantages. Randomly drawing an overall bracket after the seeding process is completed prevents coaches from influencing matchups. Just a thought.
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WBLHockeyfan04
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:32 pm
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Doc Holliday
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
- Location: SW Suburbs
Here's my thought, take the cumulative average for 3 year for each teams state ranking. Get ride of the A and AA sections completely. Take the top half of the teams and have them ranked at the end of the year and playoff to the final 8 teams. The lower half playoff to the final 8 teams. There's your A and Aa state tourney.
This would have Hermantown having to play AA based on success and other large schools playing were they belong in single A.
They can keep their traditional schedules or schedule differently based on their skills and success.
This solves all of the problems with the success haters at the single A level and bases nothing on school size but success.
Then you don't have to worry about who is in what section
This would have Hermantown having to play AA based on success and other large schools playing were they belong in single A.
They can keep their traditional schedules or schedule differently based on their skills and success.
This solves all of the problems with the success haters at the single A level and bases nothing on school size but success.
Then you don't have to worry about who is in what section
Seems similar to the short-lived Tier I and Tier II tourney from the 90s.HockeyBum wrote:Here's my thought, take the cumulative average for 3 year for each teams state ranking. Get ride of the A and AA sections completely. Take the top half of the teams and have them ranked at the end of the year and playoff to the final 8 teams. The lower half playoff to the final 8 teams. There's your A and Aa state tourney.
This would have Hermantown having to play AA based on success and other large schools playing were they belong in single A.
They can keep their traditional schedules or schedule differently based on their skills and success.
This solves all of the problems with the success haters at the single A level and bases nothing on school size but success.
Then you don't have to worry about who is in what section
That setup didn't work the best when it was tried.
Last edited by BobSaget on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nuts&Bolts
- Posts: 679
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:12 pm
- Move Hastings from 3AA down to 1AA.
- Move Prior Lake from 2AA to 1AA. Will bring Section 1AA to 9 teams with other changes happening in 1AA.
- Move Apple Valley from 3AA to 2AA. This drops Section 3AA to 8 teams.
- Slide BSM from Section 6AA into 2AA which works with the geographical alignment. This gets Section 2AA to 8 teams.
- Move STMA and Maple Grove into Section 6AA which gets them to 8 teams while opening the door for the north/north metro restructuring mess including sliding Elk River into existing 5AA.
- Move Prior Lake from 2AA to 1AA. Will bring Section 1AA to 9 teams with other changes happening in 1AA.
- Move Apple Valley from 3AA to 2AA. This drops Section 3AA to 8 teams.
- Slide BSM from Section 6AA into 2AA which works with the geographical alignment. This gets Section 2AA to 8 teams.
- Move STMA and Maple Grove into Section 6AA which gets them to 8 teams while opening the door for the north/north metro restructuring mess including sliding Elk River into existing 5AA.
Section Realignment
Current
Section 1 - 8 teams
Section 2 - 7 teams
Section 3 - 10 teams
Section 4 - 8 teams
Section 5 - 8 teams
Section 6 - 7 teams
Section 7 - 9 teams
Section 8 - 9 teams
Total of 66 teams
Options I see:
Start with reducing teams in Section 3
Move Apple Valley and Eastview to Section 2
Burnsville moves from Section 2 to Section 1
Duluth Marshall placed in Section 7
STMA moves from Section 7 to Section 8
Buffalo moves from Section 8 to Section 6
Results in:
Section 1 - added BV for a total of 9 teams
Section 2 - added AV and Eastview; lose BV for a total of 8 teams
Section 3 - lose AV and Eastview for a total of 8 teams
Section 4 - no change for a total of 8 teams
Section 5 - no change for a total of 8 teams
Section 6 - added Buffalo for a total of 8 teams
Section 7 - added Duluth Marshall, lose STMA for a total of 9 teams
Section 8 - added STMA; lose Buffalo for a total of 9 teams
Total of 67 teams
This plan doesn't take into consideration teams that move down such as Dodge county or Cloquet and keeps ER and Andover in Section 7
Section 1 - 8 teams
Section 2 - 7 teams
Section 3 - 10 teams
Section 4 - 8 teams
Section 5 - 8 teams
Section 6 - 7 teams
Section 7 - 9 teams
Section 8 - 9 teams
Total of 66 teams
Options I see:
Start with reducing teams in Section 3
Move Apple Valley and Eastview to Section 2
Burnsville moves from Section 2 to Section 1
Duluth Marshall placed in Section 7
STMA moves from Section 7 to Section 8
Buffalo moves from Section 8 to Section 6
Results in:
Section 1 - added BV for a total of 9 teams
Section 2 - added AV and Eastview; lose BV for a total of 8 teams
Section 3 - lose AV and Eastview for a total of 8 teams
Section 4 - no change for a total of 8 teams
Section 5 - no change for a total of 8 teams
Section 6 - added Buffalo for a total of 8 teams
Section 7 - added Duluth Marshall, lose STMA for a total of 9 teams
Section 8 - added STMA; lose Buffalo for a total of 9 teams
Total of 67 teams
This plan doesn't take into consideration teams that move down such as Dodge county or Cloquet and keeps ER and Andover in Section 7
Section Realignment Part 2
To get ER and Andover out of Section 7 and into Section 5, the following additional moves would need to occur:
Move Rogers from Section 5 to Section 8
Move ER and Andover from Section 7 to Section 5
Move Brainerd from Section 8 into Section 7
Final distribution would be:
Section 1 - 9 teams
Section 2 - 8 teams
Section 3 - 8 teams
Section 4 - 8 teams
Section 5 - 9 teams
Section 6 - 8 teams
Section 7 - 8 teams
Section 8 - 9 teams
Let's see what the MSHSL thinks.
Move Rogers from Section 5 to Section 8
Move ER and Andover from Section 7 to Section 5
Move Brainerd from Section 8 into Section 7
Final distribution would be:
Section 1 - 9 teams
Section 2 - 8 teams
Section 3 - 8 teams
Section 4 - 8 teams
Section 5 - 9 teams
Section 6 - 8 teams
Section 7 - 8 teams
Section 8 - 9 teams
Let's see what the MSHSL thinks.
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curtiscurve
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:14 am
Re: Section Realignment Part 2
I think if anyone moves out of 7 it will be St. Michael. They will be moved to 8 where they belong. Andover stays in 7 as they are firmly placed in the region 7 administrative section, so it would be unlikely they move out. 7 should have ER and STMA moved out and Marshall and Brainerd moved in.blueblood wrote:To get ER and Andover out of Section 7 and into Section 5, the following additional moves would need to occur:
Move Rogers from Section 5 to Section 8
Move ER and Andover from Section 7 to Section 5
Move Brainerd from Section 8 into Section 7
Final distribution would be:
Section 1 - 9 teams
Section 2 - 8 teams
Section 3 - 8 teams
Section 4 - 8 teams
Section 5 - 9 teams
Section 6 - 8 teams
Section 7 - 8 teams
Section 8 - 9 teams
Let's see what the MSHSL thinks.
Realignment
cc -
See my 1st posting on realignment. I concur that STMA will move out of Section 7 into Section 8
See my 1st posting on realignment. I concur that STMA will move out of Section 7 into Section 8
[quote="BobSaget"][quote="HockeyBum"]Here's my thought, take the cumulative average for 3 year for each teams state ranking. Get ride of the A and AA sections completely. Take the top half of the teams and have them ranked at the end of the year and playoff to the final 8 teams. The lower half playoff to the final 8 teams. There's your A and Aa state tourney.
This would have Hermantown having to play AA based on success and other large schools playing were they belong in single A.
They can keep their traditional schedules or schedule differently based on their skills and success.
This solves all of the problems with the success haters at the single A level and bases nothing on school size but success.
Then you don't have to worry about who is in what section[/quote]
Seems similar to the short-lived Tier I and Tier II tourney from the 90s.
That setup didn't work the best when it was tried.[/quote]
HS hockey has evolved since then, there are a lot of administrative issues with this format that I feel we are more equipped to handle today vs in the 90's
This would have Hermantown having to play AA based on success and other large schools playing were they belong in single A.
They can keep their traditional schedules or schedule differently based on their skills and success.
This solves all of the problems with the success haters at the single A level and bases nothing on school size but success.
Then you don't have to worry about who is in what section[/quote]
Seems similar to the short-lived Tier I and Tier II tourney from the 90s.
That setup didn't work the best when it was tried.[/quote]
HS hockey has evolved since then, there are a lot of administrative issues with this format that I feel we are more equipped to handle today vs in the 90's
A lot will hinge on these four programs...
1) Rochester Century opted up last cycle, their roster had 17 seniors out of 35 kids, another 9 or so were freshmen so they're not getting many incoming players.
2) Dodge County, a co-op of 8 schools, some of which they get no players from on the boys side. It's possible they send some schools to Century so Dodge County can go to A where they belong and Century can field a team.
3) New Ulm, a co-op of 5 schools that went over the limit when they picked up Sleepy Eye after Sleepy Eye dropped their program. They were originally placed in 2AA but were allowed to go down to A
4)LeSeuer-Henderson a co-op of 4 schools that was in the same situation as New Ulm and was placed in 2AA before being allowed to down to A.
If all 4 of these programs end up in A there will have to be a shift south and east. 3AA is already too big so they're the likely candidate to shift teams.
1AA gains Hastings and loses Dodge County or Century (8 teams)
2AA gains Apple Valley (8 teams)
3AA loses Hastings and Apple Valley (8 teams)
4AA gains Centennial (9 teams)
5AA gains Andover and loses Centennial (9 teams)
6AA gains St Louis Park (8 teams)
7AA gains Duluth Marshall and loses Andover (9 teams)
8AA stays the same (9 teams)
If New Ulm and LeSeuer stay in A then Century and St Louis Park are the next two schools up in terms of enrollment and I think Century gets a co-op anyhow. I'm also making the assumption Cloquet will stay in AA.
1) Rochester Century opted up last cycle, their roster had 17 seniors out of 35 kids, another 9 or so were freshmen so they're not getting many incoming players.
2) Dodge County, a co-op of 8 schools, some of which they get no players from on the boys side. It's possible they send some schools to Century so Dodge County can go to A where they belong and Century can field a team.
3) New Ulm, a co-op of 5 schools that went over the limit when they picked up Sleepy Eye after Sleepy Eye dropped their program. They were originally placed in 2AA but were allowed to go down to A
4)LeSeuer-Henderson a co-op of 4 schools that was in the same situation as New Ulm and was placed in 2AA before being allowed to down to A.
If all 4 of these programs end up in A there will have to be a shift south and east. 3AA is already too big so they're the likely candidate to shift teams.
1AA gains Hastings and loses Dodge County or Century (8 teams)
2AA gains Apple Valley (8 teams)
3AA loses Hastings and Apple Valley (8 teams)
4AA gains Centennial (9 teams)
5AA gains Andover and loses Centennial (9 teams)
6AA gains St Louis Park (8 teams)
7AA gains Duluth Marshall and loses Andover (9 teams)
8AA stays the same (9 teams)
If New Ulm and LeSeuer stay in A then Century and St Louis Park are the next two schools up in terms of enrollment and I think Century gets a co-op anyhow. I'm also making the assumption Cloquet will stay in AA.
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hockeyfan3133
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:30 pm
*means placed in new section
SECTION 1AA:
Dodge County
Farmington
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Century
John Marshall
Mayo
Rosemount*
Owatonna
SECTION 2AA:
Edina
EP*
Holy Family*
Chanhassen
Prior Lake
Shakopee
Jefferson
Holy Angels
SECTION 3AA:
Burnsville*
Apple Valley
Eagan
STA
CDH
Eastview
Hastings
Cottage Grove
Woodbury
SECTION 4AA:
Hill
Mounds View
N St. Paul
WBL
Stillwater
Roseville
Irondale
Tartan
SECTION 5AA:
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Rogers
Maple Grove
St. Michael *
SECTION 6AA:
Wayzata
BSM
Tonka
Hopkins
Armstrong
Buffalo*
Osseo*
SECTION 7AA:
Andover
Cambridge
Cloquet
Duluth East
Elk River
Forest Lake
Grand Rapids
St. Francis
Marshall*
SECTION 8AA:
Becker- Big Lake
Bemidji
Brainerd
Monticello
Moorhead
River Lakes
Roseau
St. Cloud Tech
SECTION 1AA:
Dodge County
Farmington
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Century
John Marshall
Mayo
Rosemount*
Owatonna
SECTION 2AA:
Edina
EP*
Holy Family*
Chanhassen
Prior Lake
Shakopee
Jefferson
Holy Angels
SECTION 3AA:
Burnsville*
Apple Valley
Eagan
STA
CDH
Eastview
Hastings
Cottage Grove
Woodbury
SECTION 4AA:
Hill
Mounds View
N St. Paul
WBL
Stillwater
Roseville
Irondale
Tartan
SECTION 5AA:
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Rogers
Maple Grove
St. Michael *
SECTION 6AA:
Wayzata
BSM
Tonka
Hopkins
Armstrong
Buffalo*
Osseo*
SECTION 7AA:
Andover
Cambridge
Cloquet
Duluth East
Elk River
Forest Lake
Grand Rapids
St. Francis
Marshall*
SECTION 8AA:
Becker- Big Lake
Bemidji
Brainerd
Monticello
Moorhead
River Lakes
Roseau
St. Cloud Tech
Section Assignments
hf3133:
Is this what you think will happen? MSHSL will not only slot 7 teams in Section 6AA.
Is this what you think will happen? MSHSL will not only slot 7 teams in Section 6AA.