goldy313 wrote:You can't petition down now, see hockeydads post.
Last cycle was a bit unique as two schools dropped hockey entirely, later New Ulm and LeSeuer picked up the dropped programs as co-ops, the MSHSL put New Ulm and LeSeuer in 2AA, both schools petitioned to go down to A and it was granted. The alternative was the schools dropped the co-ops and kids were left with no place to play.
So you can't petition down, except that you can petition down when situations are "a bit unique?"
Fine. Just assure me that there won't be another two years of adjacent sections having 10 teams on one side, and 7 on the other.
notTONIGHT wrote:So Goldy313 are you saying that you think Marshall and Leseur will indeed play the next two season in Class AA?
I think they will be in AA unless they drop a school from their co-op. I don't think any schools have dropped hockey this year and I think schools knew whether they were A or AA prior to section assignments being announced.
goldy313 wrote:Looking at all the AA co-ops that are made up entirely of what would be A schools (Marshall, LeSeuer, Dodge County) I think the MSHSL needs to reexamine how they count enrollment, 1 player from 1 school shouldn't mean they count the entire enrollment, maybe just the boys in that school. If the goal is participation then putting up detriments to participation seems to be counter productive to me. After all if Lourdes gets to draw from a student population of over 4000 and remain in A why does Marshall get punished for allowing a kid from Tracy to play?
I've always thought the idea of a bunch of schools that are all Class A schools co-oping so a team could be fielded playing in AA is against the idea of why they co-op.
I'd say they just need to do something different for co-ops; only count the biggest school in the co-op. I don't see schools co-oping to form a super team.
If you were to start doing things differently than other sports (since that's what hockey people want to do with everything), you could use the number of kids who played on a bantam team as an 8th grader + the number of 9th, 10th and 11th graders who tried out the year previous; something along those lines would probably be the most accurate and solve the issues of places like small, private schools, communities where everyone grows up with a stick in their hands, along side the multiple thousand enrollment schools where the JV teams have kids who've never played before.
goldy313 wrote:Looking at all the AA co-ops that are made up entirely of what would be A schools (Marshall, LeSeuer, Dodge County) I think the MSHSL needs to reexamine how they count enrollment, 1 player from 1 school shouldn't mean they count the entire enrollment, maybe just the boys in that school. If the goal is participation then putting up detriments to participation seems to be counter productive to me. After all if Lourdes gets to draw from a student population of over 4000 and remain in A why does Marshall get punished for allowing a kid from Tracy to play?
I've always thought the idea of a bunch of schools that are all Class A schools co-oping so a team could be fielded playing in AA is against the idea of why they co-op.
I'd say they just need to do something different for co-ops; only count the biggest school in the co-op. I don't see schools co-oping to form a super team.
If you were to start doing things differently than other sports (since that's what hockey people want to do with everything), you could use the number of kids who played on a bantam team as an 8th grader + the number of 9th, 10th and 11th graders who tried out the year previous; something along those lines would probably be the most accurate and solve the issues of places like small, private schools, communities where everyone grows up with a stick in their hands, along side the multiple thousand enrollment schools where the JV teams have kids who've never played before.
Here's your solution,
Say a school is coop'ed with 3 schools. Host is 600, 2nd is 400, 3rd is 300. 1300 kids means AA. They combine to have 30 players on JV/Varsity. Here's how it should work:
20/30 are from host , multiply times 600 = 400 students.
6/30 are from 2nd school, multiply times 400 = 80 students.
4/30 are from 3rd school, multiply times 300 = 40 students.
Adjusted total means their enrollment is 520 students. Class A.
We made a nice and easy to follow chart of all AA and A Section assignments in an article this week. A HS coach called me today to thank me for spending the time to put it in an easy to read page.
YouthHockeyHub wrote:We made a nice and easy to follow chart of all AA and A Section assignments in an article this week. A HS coach called me today to thank me for spending the time to put it in an easy to read page.
That chart is great. The article with it is very strange. How is STMA a strong team when they lost by 4 goals to a team routed by a section runner-up? STMA will not be a power in Section 8. They were lucky to get a 4 seed since they played well on a weak schedule to get a nice record come section seeding time.
YouthHockeyHub wrote:We made a nice and easy to follow chart of all AA and A Section assignments in an article this week. A HS coach called me today to thank me for spending the time to put it in an easy to read page.
That chart is great. The article with it is very strange. How is STMA a strong team when they lost by 4 goals to a team routed by a section runner-up? STMA will not be a power in Section 8. They were lucky to get a 4 seed since they played well on a weak schedule to get a nice record come section seeding time.
STMA is gonna be the toughest team in Section 8 next year????? Who ever wrote that should get a Section 8 discharge from YHH. I can see where they will be in the running for 3rd seed, maybe, behind Bemidji and Moorhead but that is as far out on that limb as I would want to go.
If the MSHSL allows the same opt-downs as last time, Section 2 and Section 6 will only have 7 teams. Section 2 will lose LeSeur-Henderson co-op, Mound-West Tonka and Marshall co-op. Section 6 will lose St. Louis Park and Minnehaha co-op. Seems to me that the MSHSL would have a little more foresight so that they end up with at least 8 teams in each section.
greenway1969 wrote:If the MSHSL allows the same opt-downs as last time, Section 2 and Section 6 will only have 7 teams. Section 2 will lose LeSeur-Henderson co-op, Mound-West Tonka and Marshall co-op. Section 6 will lose St. Louis Park and Minnehaha co-op. Seems to me that the MSHSL would have a little more foresight so that they end up with at least 8 teams in each section.
Or here's a novel idea. Wait to make section assignments. First, tell every team what class they're assigned to and let them petition down or opt up. THEN make section assignments.
Its ridiculous we'll again likely have 7 teams in 2AA and 6AA and 10 in 3AA.
Yeah what a novel idea. The MSHSL bureaucracy run about as blindly and inefficiently as the government. Whatever happened to common sense? And how they did nothing to improve section 1AA is beyond belief since they threw geography out the door with most other sections.
bubblehockey27 wrote:Really disappointing not seeing Totino move to AA.
Why's that? They've been to state 5 times, twice in the last 10 years, have one Class A title 13 years ago and were the 5 seed in their section this year...
bubblehockey27 wrote:Really disappointing not seeing Totino move to AA.
Why's that? They've been to state 5 times, twice in the last 10 years, have one Class A title 13 years ago and were the 5 seed in their section this year...
Because they're in the NW Suburban and I think they'd be a good fit for section 4 or 5. Obviously they were down this year, but playing that schedule should get them ready for AA. Don't get me wrong, I wish Breck would have made the jump too (section 2AA could have used them), but TG seems like they'd be a better fit with being in the NW Sub.
bubblehockey27 wrote:Because they're in the NW Suburban and I think they'd be a good fit for section 4 or 5. Obviously they were down this year, but playing that schedule should get them ready for AA. Don't get me wrong, I wish Breck would have made the jump too (section 2AA could have used them), but TG seems like they'd be a better fit with being in the NW Sub.
Sure, TG is in the Northwest Suburban, but the West Division is basically the "B Division" made up of A and weaker AA programs. The NWC is structured so teams play two games against their divisional foes and only one against teams in the opposite division. TG was 0-6-1 in their crossover games against the North Division, and teams like Elk River, Blaine, and Maple Grove just blew the Eagles off the ice. They even lost to cellar dweller Champlin Park. I don't see any legitimate reason for TG to opt up to AA when they aren't anywhere near dominating at the A level.
bubblehockey27 wrote:Because they're in the NW Suburban and I think they'd be a good fit for section 4 or 5. Obviously they were down this year, but playing that schedule should get them ready for AA. Don't get me wrong, I wish Breck would have made the jump too (section 2AA could have used them), but TG seems like they'd be a better fit with being in the NW Sub.
Sure, TG is in the Northwest Suburban, but the West Division is basically the "B Division" made up of A and weaker AA programs. The NWC is structured so teams play two games against their divisional foes and only one against teams in the opposite division. TG was 0-6-1 in their crossover games against the North Division, and teams like Elk River, Blaine, and Maple Grove just blew the Eagles off the ice. They even lost to cellar dweller Champlin Park. I don't see any legitimate reason for TG to opt up to AA when they aren't anywhere near dominating at the A level.
Fully acknowledging this was a down year for the Eagles, they lost a lot of talent off a State Tournament team last year but I'm sure they'll establish themselves as a top 10 class A program soon enough.
I understand how the NWSC works, but just the fact that they're in that conference gives them enough of an excuse to make the jump. Yes, they'd probably take a while to get used to AA and I don't see them running to the X anytime soon, but I think it'd be good for AA hockey. Class A isn't what it used to be, so why not go AA?
Same thing with Breck, they would have been a nice addition to section 2AA the last couple of years. Not sure if they could have stopped Edina, but it would have made the section less repetitive for the last 6+ years. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing most private schools go AA.
elliott70 wrote:Hard to believe St Cloud cannot put a AA team on the ice....
Elliot this is probably due to the fact that there are 3 teams in the area with Apollo and Cathedral both having recent success and im sure are drawing some of the talent away from a struggling Tech team.
elliott70 wrote:Hard to believe St Cloud cannot put a AA team on the ice....
Elliot this is probably due to the fact that there are 3 teams in the area with Apollo and Cathedral both having recent success and im sure are drawing some of the talent away from a struggling Tech team.
Yup, but Duluth has a private and public school at AA and the third at A.
Rochester does it, Mankato does not...
Just wish more kids were playing hockey in St Cloud...
perhaps in a couple of years things will change, but I am still shaking my head.
elliott70 wrote:Hard to believe St Cloud cannot put a AA team on the ice....
Elliot this is probably due to the fact that there are 3 teams in the area with Apollo and Cathedral both having recent success and im sure are drawing some of the talent away from a struggling Tech team.
Yup, but Duluth has a private and public school at AA and the third at A.
Rochester does it, Mankato does not...
Just wish more kids were playing hockey in St Cloud...
perhaps in a couple of years things will change, but I am still shaking my head.
St. Cloud can't really be compared to Duluth and Rochester. St. Cloud has a population of around 65,000, about the same as Eagan, who has one school. When you factor in that 15,000 of that population is college students then it really should not be a huge surprise that they struggle to field three teams.
St. Cloud is a city that is growing a large amount, so I would imagine numbers in hockey to probably follow.
