HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

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10minutemajor
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HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by 10minutemajor » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:05 pm

What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...

blindref
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by blindref » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:14 pm

10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Skip one game let an alternate play

Gunrack
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Post by Gunrack » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:23 am

Don't sign up.. Basically a fundraiser anyway.. Take the ACT

hshockeyfan53
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by hshockeyfan53 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:43 pm

10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Welcome to life. If you think the national ACT administration is going to cater to a hockey tournament or that USA hockey is going to not schedule events for 6 Saturdays every year because of a test then you're kind of delusional. The test is offered 6 times a year so maybe they should've taken it earlier?

green4
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by green4 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:56 pm

10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Some schools are starting to offer the ACT during school hours and that you don't have to pay extra money for. A lot of kids who don't have 50 dollars sitting around and were not planning on going to college just won't take the ACT so this allows them to at least get one chance at it and perhaps that can change their mind on higher education.

10minutemajor
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Post by 10minutemajor » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:36 pm

Geez. No one is asking ACT admin or USA Hockey to reschedule everything in life. Is there anything between total support or total bashing on this site? I suppose EVERY kid (not just hockey players) currently signed up to take the ACT on April 18 could have taken in February -- thus I suspect everyone has their reason for waiting until Spring to do so -- not the least of which might be more class time and the fact that the majority of "when should I take the ACT test" queries/responses suggest Spring of a student's junior year, with additional prep over the summer and a re-take in the summer and/or fall of senior year, if necessary. Parents of the HP17 kids probably should have looked into their crystal balls months ago to see what HP17 schedule was going to be, the fools.

The 17's Saturday games are at 10 a.m., 3:45, 5:45 and 7:45. Wasn't asking for a change in world policy, was just wondering if an adjustment to the 10 a.m. game time (which seems oddly separate from the remaining game times) is something that has ever been done or could possibly be done, seeing as how Minn/USA Hockey has the place booked for the weekend. But, I see now I was "delusional." Thanks for pointing that out.

My wife told me not get "involved" with the forum. I guess now I have to admit to her that she was right. Good luck to all the boys, especially the ones signed up for the ACT.

Gunrack, just because your kid never made his section team, doesn't make it a fundraiser.

green4
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Post by green4 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:44 pm

10minutemajor wrote:
My wife told me not get "involved" with the forum. I guess now I have to admit to her that she was right. .
The forum is not for the faint of heart, maybe let your wife take control of your account and let her give it a try :wink:

Defensive Zone
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by Defensive Zone » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:54 pm

green4 wrote:
10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Some schools are starting to offer the ACT during school hours and that you don't have to pay extra money for. A lot of kids who don't have 50 dollars sitting around and were not planning on going to college just won't take the ACT so this allows them to at least get one chance at it and perhaps that can change their mind on higher education.
MN high schools have to offer the ACT to their juniors in the spring (during the school day). It is mandated by the state. Students can take the ACT elsewhere (another date), but the one taken at their high school counts as one of their graduation requirements. If you miss that day do to…the high school will offer a make-up day. Word of the wise, don't be sick that day!

green4
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by green4 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:32 pm

Defensive Zone wrote:
green4 wrote:
10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Some schools are starting to offer the ACT during school hours and that you don't have to pay extra money for. A lot of kids who don't have 50 dollars sitting around and were not planning on going to college just won't take the ACT so this allows them to at least get one chance at it and perhaps that can change their mind on higher education.
MN high schools have to offer the ACT to their juniors in the spring (during the school day). It is mandated by the state. Students can take the ACT elsewhere (another date), but the one taken at their high school counts as one of their graduation requirements. If you miss that day do to…the high school will offer a make-up day. Word of the wise, don't be sick that day!
Yeah that is what I was referring to. My brother told me about it recently, that is new since I was in high school

hshockeyfan53
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Post by hshockeyfan53 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:56 pm

10minutemajor wrote:Geez. No one is asking ACT admin or USA Hockey to reschedule everything in life. Is there anything between total support or total bashing on this site? I suppose EVERY kid (not just hockey players) currently signed up to take the ACT on April 18 could have taken in February -- thus I suspect everyone has their reason for waiting until Spring to do so -- not the least of which might be more class time and the fact that the majority of "when should I take the ACT test" queries/responses suggest Spring of a student's junior year, with additional prep over the summer and a re-take in the summer and/or fall of senior year, if necessary. Parents of the HP17 kids probably should have looked into their crystal balls months ago to see what HP17 schedule was going to be, the fools.

The 17's Saturday games are at 10 a.m., 3:45, 5:45 and 7:45. Wasn't asking for a change in world policy, was just wondering if an adjustment to the 10 a.m. game time (which seems oddly separate from the remaining game times) is something that has ever been done or could possibly be done, seeing as how Minn/USA Hockey has the place booked for the weekend. But, I see now I was "delusional." Thanks for pointing that out.

My wife told me not get "involved" with the forum. I guess now I have to admit to her that she was right. Good luck to all the boys, especially the ones signed up for the ACT.

Gunrack, just because your kid never made his section team, doesn't make it a fundraiser.
I said "IF" you think that way then you are somewhat delusional. Clearly you aren't but there are some that do. My response was to you but the message was intended for everyone. Sorry didn't mean to come across as rude.

10minutemajor
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by 10minutemajor » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:54 pm

green4 wrote:
Defensive Zone wrote:
green4 wrote:
10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Some schools are starting to offer the ACT during school hours and that you don't have to pay extra money for. A lot of kids who don't have 50 dollars sitting around and were not planning on going to college just won't take the ACT so this allows them to at least get one chance at it and perhaps that can change their mind on higher education.
MN high schools have to offer the ACT to their juniors in the spring (during the school day). It is mandated by the state. Students can take the ACT elsewhere (another date), but the one taken at their high school counts as one of their graduation requirements. If you miss that day do to…the high school will offer a make-up day. Word of the wise, don't be sick that day!
Yeah that is what I was referring to. My brother told me about it recently, that is new since I was in high school
That only applies to public schools. That being said, this isn't meant to be a public school vs. private school debate (and yes, I confess that sometimes I wish I could afford private school for my kids). My point is that there are quite a few private schools in sections 2, 3, 4 and 6 whose student-athletes could be affected by this. Some of the kids have a legitimate shot at NY, some don't -- but not having everyone on the ice for every evaluation opportunity just ends up leaving the assessment skewed.

Certainly it would be nice if: 1) the kids didn't sit in their ACT test wondering (and you know they will) if the evaluators will hold it against them for missing a game; and/or 2) the affected families didn't have to worry about whether postponing the ACT test until the next date (summer) will result in a college admissions officer asking why Little Johnny didn't take the test in the spring. Could be a tough decision for those having to make it.

green4
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by green4 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:35 pm

10minutemajor wrote:
green4 wrote:
Defensive Zone wrote:
green4 wrote:
10minutemajor wrote:What happens to the kids in Sections 2A/AA, 4A/AA, 3A/AA and 6A/AA whose teams lose their first game at the HP 17's Spring Festival? Their second game is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Saturday, April 18th. The Spring ACT test is also on Saturday, April 18th, from 8 a.m. 'til dismissal at approx 12:15 p.m. The vast majority of these kids are juniors. Colleges want them to take the Spring ACT test. USA Hockey is supposed to be all about education coming first. Any chance schedule could change? These kids shouldn't have to choose...
Some schools are starting to offer the ACT during school hours and that you don't have to pay extra money for. A lot of kids who don't have 50 dollars sitting around and were not planning on going to college just won't take the ACT so this allows them to at least get one chance at it and perhaps that can change their mind on higher education.
MN high schools have to offer the ACT to their juniors in the spring (during the school day). It is mandated by the state. Students can take the ACT elsewhere (another date), but the one taken at their high school counts as one of their graduation requirements. If you miss that day do to…the high school will offer a make-up day. Word of the wise, don't be sick that day!
Yeah that is what I was referring to. My brother told me about it recently, that is new since I was in high school
That only applies to public schools. That being said, this isn't meant to be a public school vs. private school debate (and yes, I confess that sometimes I wish I could afford private school for my kids). My point is that there are quite a few private schools in sections 2, 3, 4 and 6 whose student-athletes could be affected by this. Some of the kids have a legitimate shot at NY, some don't -- but not having everyone on the ice for every evaluation opportunity just ends up leaving the assessment skewed.

Certainly it would be nice if: 1) the kids didn't sit in their ACT test wondering (and you know they will) if the evaluators will hold it against them for missing a game; and/or 2) the affected families didn't have to worry about whether postponing the ACT test until the next date (summer) will result in a college admissions officer asking why Little Johnny didn't take the test in the spring. Could be a tough decision for those having to make it.
The private school kids will be fine, the schools they attend are so serious about academics they usually take it before their junior year, and multiple times. There was an 8th grader from Blake in my ACT group, probably did better than me too.

I think you are making too much of this anyway, If school is important to the kid, take the test. If hockey is the dream, go play hockey and take the test in June.
A Junior could take the test in June, September even October of their senior year and apply to schools and be fine.

karl(east)
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Re: HP 17's Festival vs. Spring ACT Test

Post by karl(east) » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:10 am

10minutemajor wrote:the affected families didn't have to worry about whether postponing the ACT test until the next date (summer) will result in a college admissions officer asking why Little Johnny didn't take the test in the spring. Could be a tough decision for those having to make it.
While I'm sympathetic to your concerns here, I can assure you that admissions officers do not care one iota when a kid takes the test. Spring of junior year is just the recommended time because it's when most kids figure to do the best while still having an opportunity for a retake if they bomb it the first time.

For that matter, a kid could take it 7 times and it still doesn't matter: the top score overall is the only one that does. With the SAT, you can even mix and match your scores on different sections from different test-taking sessions. (And, not sure what signup dates are, but I do think the SAT is a very legitimate alternative option that may not conflict. I know the ACT is allegedly a better measure of what is taught in MN high schools, but it's not that different, and it sure opened some doors for me, personally.)

Whether you agree that allowing so many takes and re-takes is right or not is another matter, but it is what it is... :-#

blueblood
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ACT

Post by blueblood » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:00 am

The ball is in your court 10minutemajor. Care to respond to the mighty karl(east)?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:31 pm

I will. I think this is another example of the short-sided, egocentric manner in which MNH runs everything (e.g. putting a peewee and bantam aged festival right in the middle of association tryouts). It's embarrassing.

10minutemajor
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Post by 10minutemajor » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:52 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:I will. I think this is another example of the short-sided, egocentric manner in which MNH runs everything (e.g. putting a peewee and bantam aged festival right in the middle of association tryouts). It's embarrassing.
I couldn't have said it better than Inigo. Karl, you are a wise person, no doubt about it. But I think it's possible that times have changed since you were involved in the college app process (no offense meant!) which, if your son/daughter has colleges reaching out to them, includes the NCAA Eligibility Center. Colleges check the site to look at grades and ACT/SAT test results. They do want to see something there. And they do ask when they talk to the kids on the phone.

Here's a quote from this year's Elite League letter. I did not add the bold-face, it came that way. This is also embarrassing -- and in my mind, indefensible.

"In order to be eligible to play in the weekend games you must also attend all practices. Please remember to schedule ACT and SAT tests during weekends that do not conflict with league activities. You cannot miss more than three games or practices to retain eligibility. We will cut players who violate this rule."

green4
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Post by green4 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:28 pm

10minutemajor wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I will. I think this is another example of the short-sided, egocentric manner in which MNH runs everything (e.g. putting a peewee and bantam aged festival right in the middle of association tryouts). It's embarrassing.
I couldn't have said it better than Inigo. Karl, you are a wise person, no doubt about it. But I think it's possible that times have changed since you were involved in the college app process (no offense meant!) which, if your son/daughter has colleges reaching out to them, includes the NCAA Eligibility Center. Colleges check the site to look at grades and ACT/SAT test results. They do want to see something there. And they do ask when they talk to the kids on the phone.

Here's a quote from this year's Elite League letter. I did not add the bold-face, it came that way. This is also embarrassing -- and in my mind, indefensible.

"In order to be eligible to play in the weekend games you must also attend all practices. Please remember to schedule ACT and SAT tests during weekends that do not conflict with league activities. You cannot miss more than three games or practices to retain eligibility. We will cut players who violate this rule."
Again, this does not apply to most kids anymore since public schools are forced to give the test to Juniors in the next month. I doubt many private school kids have not taken the test yet, and if they have yet to do it, take it in June, not that difficult. Or skip the camp, who cares, when did this opportunity become the deciding factor on whether a kid plays hockey past high school? Life is full of tough decisions, time for the kids to make one.

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:24 pm

10minutemajor wrote:I couldn't have said it better than Inigo. Karl, you are a wise person, no doubt about it. But I think it's possible that times have changed since you were involved in the college app process (no offense meant!) which, if your son/daughter has colleges reaching out to them, includes the NCAA Eligibility Center. Colleges check the site to look at grades and ACT/SAT test results. They do want to see something there. And they do ask when they talk to the kids on the phone.
I'm 25, so it wasn't that long ago...

Again, I totally agree that they shouldn't be on the same date, just trying to work through the thought process in a productive way.

I guess the question becomes one of where you think you'd lose more by not attending. Has he done well enough in school or on the PSAT/whatever they call that ACT pre-test that you're not terribly worried about taking the test just once for getting in to most schools? Is he a good enough player that he doesn't really need the exposure of HP 17? If colleges are reaching out and calling kids for athletic reasons, I'd think that the HP Festival would be a fairly reasonable explanation for why they haven't taken the ACT yet. Just know the question is coming and have a good answer ready. Maybe not if the school's an Ivy, but in that case they should be caring more about the SAT anyway.

Not sure I would recommend skipping a session of the Festival for the ACT, but still doing both...sounds like a recipe for overload. But, again, depends on the kid.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:06 pm

I agree; nothing can be done about the date now. The kids/parents will have to figure something out.

However, that doesn't excuse MNH from the mistake. The 4/18 date has been set for years - there are no ACTs the weekend before that or after (or before or after those).

April 9, 2016
April 8, 2017

nahc
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Post by nahc » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:40 pm

If the talent is there, the scouts will find you....... participation in this tourney does not mean a thing......... Have your son take the ACT, make all the hockey sessions he can, and just go with it........ :D

blueblood
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ACT

Post by blueblood » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:46 pm

Why is this a hockey issue?

Are you going to rant about every baseball game, softball tournament, club soccer out of town tournament, track meet, synchronized swimming, dance recital, trap shooting event and lacrosse game on this day too?

Get over it people. The ACT isn't only given in April.

Wet Paint
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Post by Wet Paint » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:50 pm

Not to mention that your kid is gonna turn pro playing hockey anyhow so he won't need his ACT scores until after he is done playing hockey. Really a non-issue. :roll:

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:56 pm

nahc wrote:If the talent is there, the scouts will find you....... participation in this tourney does not mean a thing......... Have your son take the ACT, make all the hockey sessions he can, and just go with it........ :D
Exactly

bsmguy
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Post by bsmguy » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:53 pm

Here is a way to look at this issue that might ease some anxiety.

The Festival has 160 kids and 54 will be chosen to move on.

-If the kid is easily in the top 30-40 kids, we will move on, so he should miss a game to take the ACT.

- if the kid is in the bottom half of the 160, he has no chance to move on and should miss a game to take the ACT.

-if a kid is on the bubble, and he plans to go to college whether or not he he plays hockey, he should miss a game to take the ACT.

-If a kid is on the bubble and super smart, he should miss a game to take the ACT because a strong ACT score can open up more hockey doors than advancing to the 54s.

-If a kid is on the bubble, not an academic and does not plan to go to college unless he plays hockey, then he should play instead of take the test. This is because this kid is probably going to spend a year or two in juniors and will be able to take the test later. Also, his ACT score is less critical because he may be looking for a strong hockey school without caring about rigorous admission standards. For this kid, advancing to the 54s might have more benefit than taking the test right now.

Defensive Zone
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Post by Defensive Zone » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:53 pm

bsmguy wrote:Here is a way to look at this issue that might ease some anxiety.

The Festival has 160 kids and 54 will be chosen to move on.

-If the kid is easily in the top 30-40 kids, we will move on, so he should miss a game to take the ACT.

- if the kid is in the bottom half of the 160, he has no chance to move on and should miss a game to take the ACT.

-if a kid is on the bubble, and he plans to go to college whether or not he he plays hockey, he should miss a game to take the ACT.

-If a kid is on the bubble and super smart, he should miss a game to take the ACT because a strong ACT score can open up more hockey doors than advancing to the 54s.

-If a kid is on the bubble, not an academic and does not plan to go to college unless he plays hockey, then he should play instead of take the test. This is because this kid is probably going to spend a year or two in juniors and will be able to take the test later. Also, his ACT score is less critical because he may be looking for a strong hockey school without caring about rigorous admission standards. For this kid, advancing to the 54s might have more benefit than taking the test right now.
This also might help to determine if you should take the test or play a game of hockey. Here is some data I found a few years ago. It might be a little old, but it could shine some light on a player who is trying to make the right decision....The chances of a high school hockey player playing NCAA hockey are somewhere around 1 in 8 or just over 12%. The odds of a player then moving on from NCAA hockey to the NHL are 1 in 250 or 0.4%. Also, 85% of our working population (blue/white collar) is made-up of former NCAA athletes from any sport. Just some thoughts.

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