Unbelievable Scores

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HShockeywatcher
Posts: 6848
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm

Post by HShockeywatcher » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:46 am

4on5again wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:I remember when I was a senior we were scheduled to play this awful team that we knew we would beat by 10+ goals. Coach came to 3 of us seniors and asked if it would be ok if he healthy scratched us that night so that the younger players on the team would get more PT and the game would be closer. We flat out said no, that's not alright. We worked in practice every day just like everyone else, we played through the ranks of youth hockey for the last 12 years, we were on the back half of the season and we only had about a dozen games left in our high school careers. We wanted to play. Just because the other team sucked, that's not our fault. We ended up playing, and we destroyed the other team, and it was fun. Meaningless, we knew that, but fun.

Point is, players want to play. You can't expect the top players from Luverne, or any other school, to have to sit out entire periods of games just so the score doesn't get embarassing. My advise to the other team, parents of players of the other team, supporters of the other team, supporters of other schools in the conference or district, you just need to get better.

My advice to teams like Luverne, there are games you are locked into that you cannot avoid, I get that. The part of your schedule that is not locked in, start up the bus and hit the road from some better competition. If the school budget can't handle it, time for the boosters to step up. Don't put your players in a position where they have to feel bad about playing hard and doing their best, or even playing the game at all.
SCblueliner's comment is right, and players shouldn't feel guilty for working hard. We've all played against dogs in our schedules and need to know how to handle it. Just hold down the celly and be respectful when you route that team. At the same time, when a player scores while playing a giant, let them celebrate. Its better than taking runs at your superstar. Maybe the coach is part of this?
Nobody gets better in blowouts like these, and if this is a year after year thing, they might consider independent. What do they do at Duluth East?
There is no definitive right and wrong here; what to do in these situations is very situational. You can't make a blanket statement about what players want in all situations. Players are part of a team and community and many care a lot about more than just themselves. Playing a lesser team gives you the opportunity to mix up lines and work on things you normally wouldn't be able to.

This topic gets brought up every year with no real solution. Try to avoid these games as much as possible and do what's best for your team when playing in them.

HShockeywatcher
Posts: 6848
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm

Post by HShockeywatcher » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:59 am

4on5again wrote:Initially, I was mostly inquiring about the quality of hockey in these blowouts and how often they occur. The last few posts bring up a couple of things about scoring titles and such...

It sounds like the "A" scoring champions have ruffled some feathers in the past with the scoring leader boards, etc. To be fair to the athletes on these lists, I think we can all say that these are elite players and the scouts are well aware of stat inflation.
Perhaps a one tier approach for scoring titles should be thrown out, and the Star trib HH should have "A" and "AA" scoring leaders separated. This might give some due credit to the big school leaders that are shadowed by gigantic small school stats. Just thinking out loud here. This isn't to put small schools in their place, but rather to better understand the stats that everyone sees published weekly.
The issue is that there's so much more to goals and assists than the class you play in. There are Class A teams with tougher schedules than AA teams. The best team has a harder schedule than the worst, but they also have better teammates and better opportunities to assist and be assisted. The worst team has an easier schedule, and less good players to assist and be assisted.

OGEE OGELTHORPE
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:44 pm
Location: State of shock/without the awe

Post by OGEE OGELTHORPE » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:08 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:The issue is that there's so much more to goals and assists than the class you play in. There are Class A teams with tougher schedules than AA teams. The best team has a harder schedule than the worst, but they also have better teammates and better opportunities to assist and be assisted. The worst team has an easier schedule, and less good players to assist and be assisted.
:roll:

lamplighter98
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:51 am

Post by lamplighter98 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:44 pm

It's laughable watching constant run time games, but like it was stated earlier, it's not the fault of the teams that are doing the high scoring, stop them. It's also not the fault of Luverne that they have to play these teams twice in a season, which eats up a bulk of their schedule.
To the poster who stated that they need to fire up the bus and go. Well, let's see Luverne is firing up the bus and going to play Totino, New Prague, Mankato East and Orono and SPA making the trek to their barn. I don't know 100% but if you ask the kids on the team, I'm certain that they would much rather play teams like that, then the run timers.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:46 pm

Playing a lesser team gives you the opportunity to mix up lines and work on things you normally wouldn't be able to.
In a beating that bad, the lines shouldn't get mixed, but rolled differently. In a close game against a quality opponent the 1st and 2nd lines get a lot of ice, 3rd line some, 4th line maybe none at all. In a blow out, the 3rd and 4th lines get a lot of ice, the 1st and 2nd not so much. That's how dynasties are developed - underclassmen understand what it takes to play because they actually get to play. I don't know the Luverne roster, but at a glance, it looks like only 1 goal was scored by the 3rd or 4th lines. I would have expected more points from the kids who should have been working their tails off, proving they should get ice time in close games, too. Rewarding to be an important part of something that grew to be great for a long time, rather than the leading scorer on a team that flashed for a couple years and maybe went to state once or twice out of a weak section.

4on5again
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:18 am

Post by 4on5again » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:03 pm

I know nothing about Luverne or their conference. From earlier posts, and youtube feeds, Luverne supporters (or at least one) loved to see the beat downs, get a bit cocky, and lay on the fog horn. Sounded almost bully against Sleepy Eyes, and Marshalls, and other places out there. Its too bad, sounds like a nice program otherwise.

notTONIGHT
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by notTONIGHT » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:14 pm

4on5again wrote:I know nothing about Luverne or their conference. From earlier posts, and youtube feeds, Luverne supporters (or at least one) loved to see the beat downs, get a bit cocky, and lay on the fog horn. Sounded almost bully against Sleepy Eyes, and Marshalls, and other places out there. Its too bad, sounds like a nice program otherwise.
That guys a jerk!

Whiner33
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:29 am

Post by Whiner33 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:52 pm

4on5again wrote:I know nothing about Luverne or their conference. From earlier posts, and youtube feeds, Luverne supporters (or at least one) loved to see the beat downs, get a bit cocky, and lay on the fog horn. Sounded almost bully against Sleepy Eyes, and Marshalls, and other places out there. Its too bad, sounds like a nice program otherwise.
Head back over to the youth forum because you are exposing yourself badly! Toodles! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

P.S. Don't forget your pants...

pats12
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:53 pm

Post by pats12 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:51 pm

Sats81 wrote:
Whiner33 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
barry_mcconnell wrote:My new mission in life: find the guy working that horn and let the air out of his tires.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sats did Stillwater have one?????
Lol. Come up to the metro sometime, lets have your HS, I mean Bantam B2 team take on LN. Put the cards on the receiving end of a 14-3 beatdown.



ROLL CARDS ROLL.
Your 3rd grade education is obvious stats. Let's pick one of the biggest schools in the state 6 times bigger than Luverne, so they can teach them a lesson. I'm just suprised you didn't pick the gophers, huskies, bulldogs, etc. Just because Luverne put a beat down on a team that has 3x their enrollment. Marshall repeatedly does this exact same thing to other conference opponents in every other sport. No sympathy for them.

How is your LS soph. studhorse doing this year?

notTONIGHT
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by notTONIGHT » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:16 pm

pats12 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
Whiner33 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
barry_mcconnell wrote:My new mission in life: find the guy working that horn and let the air out of his tires.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sats did Stillwater have one?????
Lol. Come up to the metro sometime, lets have your HS, I mean Bantam B2 team take on LN. Put the cards on the receiving end of a 14-3 beatdown.



ROLL CARDS ROLL.
Your 3rd grade education is obvious stats. Let's pick one of the biggest schools in the state 6 times bigger than Luverne, so they can teach them a lesson. I'm just suprised you didn't pick the gophers, huskies, bulldogs, etc. Just because Luverne put a beat down on a team that has 3x their enrollment. Marshall repeatedly does this exact same thing to other conference opponents in every other sport. No sympathy for them.

How is your LS soph. studhorse doing this year?



BUCKETS!!!!

Thegoldenjet
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:03 pm

Post by Thegoldenjet » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:43 am

I kind of wish I hadn't come across this thread. And I kind of wish I had the restraint to stay above it and out of it, as I've been advised by my AD and as I know I probably should. I am involved with the Marshall program, I was involved in the 14-3 game. I've been on both sides of these games, as a player and a coach. Its never easy either way and there is really no right answer as far as the score board is concerned, I get that and I can live with it. The first time my coach instilled the 'everyone touches the puck before you shoot rule' was in Luverne my first year of Squirt A, because it wasn't fair, so we learned how to run a power play. The irony continues because Paquette and Ossefort, with a little help from who is now a good friend of mine Olsen, managed to beat us, and so began the turning of the tides. Honestly, I've been ostracized in my own community for the respect I have for Luverne, to use Marshall as motivation to improve, and to go beyond, and to put a product on the ice that I not only respect but truly enjoy watching. No, I didn't laugh at you on Saturday, and in fact 2 years ago I would have only wanted Luverne to beat the cake eaters from St. Paul, now, its hard, I want the kids to beat the cake eaters but I can't help but want notTonight and, whiner and pats and mr.goalieboy to lose to the cake eaters. Most probably don't know but when Brown moved to Luverne he came to us for information, "How do I improve the program? How do I improve my schedule?" Full on, level respect, as coaches, correspondence. "Get a JV team, whatever you have to do you need a JV if you want anyone to play you". No, I'm not saying we paved the road, I'm saying healthy relationships are good for everyone, hopefully you get the point. When it comes to respect for the game, opponents, and ultimately the fact that we can sit here and bicker about it, there is a right answer. And, sadly, I'm not sure that either program, individually or collectively is right, at the moment. When Marshall's player scored and shot 'arrows' at the 'home crowd', the head coach just about broke his hand, and definitely said words that shouldn't be repeated. Because he was embarrassed, because, win, lose or draw, we do not want to carry ourselves that way. Hockey, for most of us average folk, is a platform, and if nothing else we hope all of our players learn what it is to be humble, respectful and ultimately grateful for opportunity. 4-1 at the end of the first, a lot to discuss, but first point made was to make darn sure everyone knows we do not boast a score when its only the first chip into the lead we've allowed, and conversely we do not pat ourselves on the back because one moment of success does not make us superior. And hey man, I'm a hockey nut, there is nothing like scoring an 'Ovie through the legs pick up a little snow and share it with your fans goal'. That said, they're kids, that's why we coach, because they have learning to do, whether it be their skill to not lose 14-3 or their ability to cope with reality and play with a full heart, and learn how to not be a loser even if they lose. Or to be a winner, maybe if Marshall could keep their USHL kid, their Division I goalie or their Chaska Freshman the lessons would be a little heavier on humble winning. Point is, from a coach who wishes he could do it again, and every day is faced with the love and frustration of coaching, they're kids, that's why we coach, they have a lot to learn, they will certainly make mistakes and you can't prevent every mistake, you can only hope to learn and/or teach from them. Long story long, Luverne is good enough to just be good and not talk about it, in fact, imho, it would serve them and make for a better story to not ask for attention but to come in unbeknownst to all and surprise, too late for that though. I would really love to be able feel a sense of 'regional' community, but for both of our faults I'm not sure that will be possible this year, its tough, don't really get to pick emotion or the physical reaction to it. I hope everyone can remember that as the kids' emotions show up during their formative days. And, maybe, on here we can just, ya know, not use High School hockey players for anything more than healthy community entertainment. And yes notTonight this is another Goldenjet gospel, maybe, likely, you don't see it the way I do, but frankly you and the tea party Donald Trumper's have a lot in common, and maybe I'm blowing the same hot air back, so be it. I'm exposed now so, I guess that's my piece, we'll see if my compatriots forgive me for letting all of you know way more than you should, but win, lose or draw, Marshall Hockey will strive to raise good young men, if nothing else.

notTONIGHT
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by notTONIGHT » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:08 am

Thegoldenjet wrote:I kind of wish I hadn't come across this thread. And I kind of wish I had the restraint to stay above it and out of it, as I've been advised by my AD and as I know I probably should. I am involved with the Marshall program, I was involved in the 14-3 game. I've been on both sides of these games, as a player and a coach. Its never easy either way and there is really no right answer as far as the score board is concerned, I get that and I can live with it. The first time my coach instilled the 'everyone touches the puck before you shoot rule' was in Luverne my first year of Squirt A, because it wasn't fair, so we learned how to run a power play. The irony continues because Paquette and Ossefort, with a little help from who is now a good friend of mine Olsen, managed to beat us, and so began the turning of the tides. Honestly, I've been ostracized in my own community for the respect I have for Luverne, to use Marshall as motivation to improve, and to go beyond, and to put a product on the ice that I not only respect but truly enjoy watching. No, I didn't laugh at you on Saturday, and in fact 2 years ago I would have only wanted Luverne to beat the cake eaters from St. Paul, now, its hard, I want the kids to beat the cake eaters but I can't help but want notTonight and, whiner and pats and mr.goalieboy to lose to the cake eaters. Most probably don't know but when Brown moved to Luverne he came to us for information, "How do I improve the program? How do I improve my schedule?" Full on, level respect, as coaches, correspondence. "Get a JV team, whatever you have to do you need a JV if you want anyone to play you". No, I'm not saying we paved the road, I'm saying healthy relationships are good for everyone, hopefully you get the point. When it comes to respect for the game, opponents, and ultimately the fact that we can sit here and bicker about it, there is a right answer. And, sadly, I'm not sure that either program, individually or collectively is right, at the moment. When Marshall's player scored and shot 'arrows' at the 'home crowd', the head coach just about broke his hand, and definitely said words that shouldn't be repeated. Because he was embarrassed, because, win, lose or draw, we do not want to carry ourselves that way. Hockey, for most of us average folk, is a platform, and if nothing else we hope all of our players learn what it is to be humble, respectful and ultimately grateful for opportunity. 4-1 at the end of the first, a lot to discuss, but first point made was to make darn sure everyone knows we do not boast a score when its only the first chip into the lead we've allowed, and conversely we do not pat ourselves on the back because one moment of success does not make us superior. And hey man, I'm a hockey nut, there is nothing like scoring an 'Ovie through the legs pick up a little snow and share it with your fans goal'. That said, they're kids, that's why we coach, because they have learning to do, whether it be their skill to not lose 14-3 or their ability to cope with reality and play with a full heart, and learn how to not be a loser even if they lose. Or to be a winner, maybe if Marshall could keep their USHL kid, their Division I goalie or their Chaska Freshman the lessons would be a little heavier on humble winning. Point is, from a coach who wishes he could do it again, and every day is faced with the love and frustration of coaching, they're kids, that's why we coach, they have a lot to learn, they will certainly make mistakes and you can't prevent every mistake, you can only hope to learn and/or teach from them. Long story long, Luverne is good enough to just be good and not talk about it, in fact, imho, it would serve them and make for a better story to not ask for attention but to come in unbeknownst to all and surprise, too late for that though. I would really love to be able feel a sense of 'regional' community, but for both of our faults I'm not sure that will be possible this year, its tough, don't really get to pick emotion or the physical reaction to it. I hope everyone can remember that as the kids' emotions show up during their formative days. And, maybe, on here we can just, ya know, not use High School hockey players for anything more than healthy community entertainment. And yes notTonight this is another Goldenjet gospel, maybe, likely, you don't see it the way I do, but frankly you and the tea party Donald Trumper's have a lot in common, and maybe I'm blowing the same hot air back, so be it. I'm exposed now so, I guess that's my piece, we'll see if my compatriots forgive me for letting all of you know way more than you should, but win, lose or draw, Marshall Hockey will strive to raise good young men, if nothing else.
Preach.


This is Americana. If there is ever an opportunity for me to buy you a drink after the game, I'd be honored, and quietly listen.

Until then, don't take me so serious.

Thegoldenjet
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:03 pm

Post by Thegoldenjet » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:45 am

I'll let you know, and maybe we can discuss 5:00 minute majors. Big kill boys, lets go.

Sats81
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:29 am

Post by Sats81 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:10 am

pats12 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
Whiner33 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
barry_mcconnell wrote:My new mission in life: find the guy working that horn and let the air out of his tires.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sats did Stillwater have one?????
Lol. Come up to the metro sometime, lets have your HS, I mean Bantam B2 team take on LN. Put the cards on the receiving end of a 14-3 beatdown.



ROLL CARDS ROLL.
Your 3rd grade education is obvious stats. Let's pick one of the biggest schools in the state 6 times bigger than Luverne, so they can teach them a lesson. I'm just suprised you didn't pick the gophers, huskies, bulldogs, etc. Just because Luverne put a beat down on a team that has 3x their enrollment. Marshall repeatedly does this exact same thing to other conference opponents in every other sport. No sympathy for them.

How is your LS soph. studhorse doing this year?
LS soph? You need to go to bed earlier. Your program is and will continue to be a joke.

Whiner33
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:29 am

Post by Whiner33 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:24 am

notTONIGHT are you and the golden jet neighbors out in that different time zone? 2:12 and 2:45. Nice work boys!

notTONIGHT
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by notTONIGHT » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:34 am

Whiner33 wrote:notTONIGHT are you and the golden jet neighbors out in that different time zone? 2:12 and 2:45. Nice work boys!

BUCKETS!!

4on5again
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:18 am

Post by 4on5again » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:05 pm

Whiner33 wrote:
4on5again wrote:I know nothing about Luverne or their conference. From earlier posts, and youtube feeds, Luverne supporters (or at least one) loved to see the beat downs, get a bit cocky, and lay on the fog horn. Sounded almost bully against Sleepy Eyes, and Marshalls, and other places out there. Its too bad, sounds like a nice program otherwise.
Head back over to the youth forum because you are exposing yourself badly! Toodles! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

P.S. Don't forget your pants...
I guess that is some kind of inside joke or something?? Sounds like you have issues. I'll leave that alone. I definitely do not know you or anyone posting here, and have never known much about southern Minnesota hockey. I was recently interested only because I've seen the sophomore standout coming up. The scores are huge, yet the hockey leaves something to be desired. Now my interest has turned to disinterested. I'll keep my interests in metro and northern hockey, and try to find my pants. Thanks

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