Tech-Apollo the biggest Class A in the state

Shortshift · Post by **Shortshift** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:37 am

What is really happening with this? Is this a done deal? Is it long term or temporary? Why is it such a secret? I would think it would only help the youth program there. Now they only would need to feed 2 schools.

skills_coach1 · Post by **skills_coach1** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:07 am

Shortshift wrote:What is really happening with this? Is this a done deal? Is it long term or temporary? Why is it such a secret? I would think it would only help the youth program there. Now they only would need to feed 2 schools.

Amen!
Dunno why there isn't more info out there. Lot's of talk, but not much official. Tech also has trouble with numbers BTW, only about 30 in the program this season...28 total last season... There is a group that wants to force the issue (to stay at three separate programs) even though SCYHA only has three bantam teams in total! You are absolutely right, it is the best thing for the community and youth hockey, but there are those that seem to want to hold on to tradition rather than common sense or what might be best for building hockey in St. Cloud area. I have no fight in this game other than for the quality of hockey in St Cloud in the future. Demographics and hockey population has changed. Youth is roughly 450 players in total. Even with some expansion in SCYHA, they would still have trouble fielding three squads....

greenwayraider · Post by **greenwayraider** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:21 am

I'm not sure only having one high school team is the best for St. Cloud. How does fewer high school opportunities translate into a better program? I understand that it will mean a better high school team but I don't understand how fewer high school opportunities will grow the program. I admit I have no understanding of how the youth association works, but some other programs that have had a similar problem (St. Louis Park and St. Paul Highland Park) have found a way to rejuvenate their youth hockey. Seems to me accepting declining numbers and merging programs is the easy way out rather than challenging the youth association to find kids that would like to play hockey and then providing the means for them to do that. Just hate seeing another high school lose hockey.

skills_coach1 · Post by **skills_coach1** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:41 am

greenwayraider wrote:I'm not sure only having one high school team is the best for St. Cloud. How does fewer high school opportunities translate into a better program? I understand that it will mean a better high school team but I don't understand how fewer high school opportunities will grow the program. I admit I have no understanding of how the youth association works, but some other programs that have had a similar problem (St. Louis Park and St. Paul Highland Park) have found a way to rejuvenate their youth hockey. Seems to me accepting declining numbers and merging programs is the easy way out rather than challenging the youth association to find kids that would like to play hockey and then providing the means for them to do that. Just hate seeing another high school lose hockey.

It's not just one team Greenway, Cathedral is there too. I agree growth is critical. I can say for a fact SCYHA has been working on it successfully. But it has a long way to go to get back to providing enough players to field 120 kids for three HS teams in town.... (assuming each wants a roster of 40 for V and JV). I realize, it wouldn't need 120 all in one year, but even over a three year period???

So, put into a business analogy, is it better to "stay in business, even though the market is not there?" Or Adapt and move on?

greenwayraider · Post by **greenwayraider** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:05 am

My point is that there is more than one way to adapt. You can accept your shrinking market share or try to find new customers. You can be Sears or Amazon. Still think it's the easy way out. Not considering Cathedral as an equal partner in this. They can get players beyond the St. Cloud school district. Hopefully then this is a temporary situation.

slapshot18 · Post by **slapshot18** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:11 am

greenwayraider wrote:My point is that there is more than one way to adapt. You can accept your shrinking market share or try to find new customers. You can be Sears or Amazon. Still think it's the easy way out. Not considering Cathedral as an equal partner in this. They can get players beyond the St. Cloud school district. Hopefully then this is a temporary situation.

Tech does not have issues with numbers. With the coop, it is inevitable that some won't have the opportunity to play. Sauk Rapids does have issues with numbers. If numbers is the sole reason for the coop, the obvious answer is a coop with Sauk Rapids. If an attempt at a super team is the reason for the coop, then Tech is the answer. Either way, this is a short term solution. St. Cloud has 5 peewee teams... Another answer is to have only a varsity team with no jv. There are teams in the MSHSL in this situation. Apollo school boundaries has enough for a team with the kids coming up from bantams.

Hockey7326 · Post by **Hockey7326** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:30 am

slapshot18 wrote:
greenwayraider wrote:My point is that there is more than one way to adapt. You can accept your shrinking market share or try to find new customers. You can be Sears or Amazon. Still think it's the easy way out. Not considering Cathedral as an equal partner in this. They can get players beyond the St. Cloud school district. Hopefully then this is a temporary situation.
Tech does not have issues with numbers. With the coop, it is inevitable that some won't have the opportunity to play. Sauk Rapids does have issues with numbers. If numbers is the sole reason for the coop, the obvious answer is a coop with Sauk Rapids. If an attempt at a super team is the reason for the coop, then Tech is the answer. Either way, this is a short term solution. St. Cloud has 5 peewee teams... Another answer is to have only a varsity team with no jv. There are teams in the MSHSL in this situation. Apollo school boundaries has enough for a team with the kids coming up from bantams.

They co-op is because of numbers. And you're wrong, Apollo would not have enough players to put together a varsity team. There would be 8-9 kids with no goaltender. They must co-op with Tech because they are in the same school district. Sauk-Rapids is not and Sauk Rapids has the numbers to continue to put a team out, they just suffer from ineligibility.

slapshot18 · Post by **slapshot18** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Hockey7326 wrote:
slapshot18 wrote:
greenwayraider wrote:My point is that there is more than one way to adapt. You can accept your shrinking market share or try to find new customers. You can be Sears or Amazon. Still think it's the easy way out. Not considering Cathedral as an equal partner in this. They can get players beyond the St. Cloud school district. Hopefully then this is a temporary situation.
Tech does not have issues with numbers. With the coop, it is inevitable that some won't have the opportunity to play. Sauk Rapids does have issues with numbers. If numbers is the sole reason for the coop, the obvious answer is a coop with Sauk Rapids. If an attempt at a super team is the reason for the coop, then Tech is the answer. Either way, this is a short term solution. St. Cloud has 5 peewee teams... Another answer is to have only a varsity team with no jv. There are teams in the MSHSL in this situation. Apollo school boundaries has enough for a team with the kids coming up from bantams.
They co-op is because of numbers. And you're wrong, Apollo would not have enough players to put together a varsity team. There would be 8-9 kids with no goaltender. They must co-op with Tech because they are in the same school district. Sauk-Rapids is not and Sauk Rapids has the numbers to continue to put a team out, they just suffer from ineligibility.

Coops exist between school districts. Sartell and Sauk Rapids, different school districts, coop on the girls side. It works quite well. That is not a valid reason for looking into Sauk Rapids.

Shortshift · Post by **Shortshift** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:08 am

Obviously there hasn't been a decision made! Or maybe it has and they just want to shock or I mean surprise everyone. Maybe it's time for 1 large public school there. Save the tax payers some money!

BlueLine_D · Post by **BlueLine_D** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:45 pm

I don't know how to post the link but there was an article in the St. Cloud Times today about this issue. It really doesn't provide a ton of information as it sounds like there is still a ton of uncertainty.

moosepaw · Post by **moosepaw** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:19 am

Just updating we are looking good for next year, the school board will vote next week on the coop between Tech and Apolllo, will vote on the name. We will have 3 kids to come and play for us from River Lakes a goalie a d and a fwd. our AD is appealing to the MSHSL league to play A, but we already have a AA schedule with adding Moorehead and several other AA schools giving us the best of both worlds.

CornerBar · Post by **CornerBar** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:04 pm

moosepaw wrote:Just updating we are looking good for next year, the school board will vote next week on the coop between Tech and Apolllo, will vote on the name. We will have 3 kids to come and play for us from River Lakes a goalie a d and a fwd. our AD is appealing to the MSHSL league to play A, but we already have a AA schedule with adding Moorehead and several other AA schools giving us the best of both worlds.

I would not say things are looking good. Based off of everything I heard from the meeting and talking with the Apollo AD it certainly sounds like the school board is making this a lot tougher than it should be. They're concerned about the kids that are already at Tech who may suffer being cut due to a co-op. They want it to be fair for everyone which it obviously won't be. They seem to think that Apollo could field a team with their 8 potentially returning players. The school board is always bad with stuff like this, they believe they're doing what's in the best interest of the players and parents. When in reality they're doing what they THINK is in the best interest of them. They have not spoken to any of the parents or players to my knowledge. The other main issue they brought up at their meeting is who the coach will be. They're worried that once they choose one it can emotionally damage some of the kids, which makes no sense to me but anyway, just thought I'd get out what I've heard.

Post by **karl(east)** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:35 pm

Assuming this goes through, I don't think a combined St. Cloud team has any business playing in Class A. Enrollment will be well over the cut-off, they'll have a number of players from both schools, and they won't be half bad in AA, either. I see no grounds for letting them be an A team.

moosepaw · Post by **moosepaw** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:47 pm

Both our AD and Apollo are asking the MSHSL to allow us to play down, we have 50% free and reduced lunch according to our AD and she thinks we will get it.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:50 pm

karl(east) wrote:Assuming this goes through, I don't think a combined St. Cloud team has any business playing in Class A. Enrollment will be well over the cut-off, they'll have a number of players from both schools, and they won't be half bad in AA, either. I see no grounds for letting them be an A team.

This is intetesting.......the MSHSL doesn't redo sections until next year. Enrollments do change year over year and I can't think of a precedent of changing class mid cycle. I could be wrong but I believe both Lakeville South and Eastridge were class A by enrollment initially but didn't play varsity hockey the first year with all sophomores, the next year as the enrollments doubled they still played class A.

As i said before, there is no guarantee the MSHSL grants a co-op to these two schools.

GP4Lhockey · Post by **GP4Lhockey** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:20 am

Even if the school board votes no to the co-op between the two schools (which wouldn't surprise me actually). There is no way the MSHSL would let this happen. You can't just leave the Apollo players in limbo with nowhere to go. They'd step in and make sure that some sort of co-op happens.

slapshot18 · Post by **slapshot18** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:08 pm

Apollo could recruit some players like they did the past few years. It never stopped them before.
Also, the complaining they did to the school board about how it isn't right to have freshman or bantams on the team. This is also something Apollo has done all along. Why, all of a sudden, is this an issue.
Either way, it is ludicrous for them to think of combining with anyone and staying in single A.

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:39 am

GP4Lhockey wrote:Even if the school board votes no to the co-op between the two schools (which wouldn't surprise me actually). There is no way the MSHSL would let this happen. You can't just leave the Apollo players in limbo with nowhere to go. They'd step in and make sure that some sort of co-op happens.

This is incorrect...The MSHSL cannot force a co-op onto a member school. If Apollo abandons hockey, and no schools want to co-op, the players will be allowed a transfer with immediate eligibility.

Nuts&Bolts · Post by **Nuts&Bolts** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:29 am

Apollo is far enough north for Hermantown. Give coach Plante a call.

CornerBar · Post by **CornerBar** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:13 am

slapshot18 wrote:Apollo could recruit some players like they did the past few years. It never stopped them before.
Also, the complaining they did to the school board about how it isn't right to have freshman or bantams on the team. This is also something Apollo has done all along. Why, all of a sudden, is this an issue.
Either way, it is ludicrous for them to think of combining with anyone and staying in single A.

Apollo would only have 8 players at most even if the pulled up all freshman, and even if they could field a varsity team, no CLC team agreed to schedule them if they were a varsity only program. The only option for them is to co-op.

What other years has Apollo played only freshman and bantams? And who exactly have they been recruiting over the years?

slapshot18 · Post by **slapshot18** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:24 am

I didn't ever say they played only bantams and freshman. I said they have, in the past, played bantams. Check their roster, you will find both freshman and bantams have played. To say it is now wrong to have freshman and bantams in the locker room with juniors and seniors is hypocritical.
The goalie lives in the St. Cloud Tech boundaries, yet he played for Apollo.
A senior forward played for Apollo this past season after playing for Wadena Deer Creek. I guess they didn't have enough seniors going into the season.

in2hockey · Post by **in2hockey** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:31 am

Know the facts:
Fact #1 - GOALIE didn't want to compete against his brother for the starting spot at Tech. He went back to a north side school in 8th grade (he previously lived on the north side). Also, Apollo had only one other goalie on their roster his Freshman - Senior years...someone had to fill the spot???

Fact #2- WADENA PLAYER was originally from St. Cloud. They came back for employment opportunities for his parents.

For the record I do think it's BS if they play "A" hockey next year. They should have a solid squad that can compete in "AA". I do know if the Apollo staff takes over the co-op team and has a say in it they won't be playing in "A" next year.

GP4Lhockey · Post by **GP4Lhockey** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:29 am

Wow we recruited two players in the span of 5 years. We must be worse than Bruce Plante and Hermantown. The fact is though that even if they played freshmen next year Apollo would only have around what 12 skaters? As stated before nobody would be willing to schedule Apollo for Varsity only.

So apparently now I have been corrected that if the school board decides to disallow the coop then these kids would be allowed to transfer to a school without losing a year of eligibility. I see this as a very big issue for these kids. What if these kids are sophomores that can't drive? How would they get to school? Buses wouldn't give rides to these kids. The other thing is being a multi sport athlete I'd be very upset that I have to change teams and play for tech rather than Apollo with the guys I have been playing with and for the school that I really pledge a loyalty too.

CornerBar · Post by **CornerBar** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:43 pm

The school board passed the co-op this evening. Team name, coach, etc. will be voted on in the next 1-2 weeks.

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Tech-Apollo the biggest Class A in the state

Update

Re: Update

What other years has Apollo played only freshman and bantams