@COHSHockeyPod 01/31/2016 Show with Karl(east) & YHH

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SquirtC'00
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@COHSHockeyPod 01/31/2016 Show with Karl(east) & YHH

Post by SquirtC'00 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:00 pm

This week’s show we start things off with an in depth look at last week’s games of the week focusing on the Hibbing/Apollo & Wayzata/EP. Then we discuss some of the sections that are still up in the air (1AA, 2AA & 7AA). We use our prediction skills to name our guess who we think our state field will be which got pretty heated. We wrap up the show with a preview of Hockey Day up in Duluth this weekend and the other great match ups happening in the penultimate week of the regular season. Again follow us on Twitter @cohshockeypod for live stats and updates from games. Thanks for listening.


https://audioboom.com/boos/4129854-1-36 ... ey-podcast

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:11 am

"half the north kids grew up playing at south"- Tony Scott

For a guy with little credibility to begin with, its continues to erode with that comment.

Enebak=only 1. Guess that's half the team. :roll: :roll:

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:00 am

Good show.

Has to be the only season ever in memory where no pundit is picking an undefeated metro AA team to make it thru sections to the X. Personally , I think the chances are pretty good for any of the three of them

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:03 am

WestMetro wrote:Good show.

Has to be the only season ever in memory where no pundit is picking an undefeated metro AA team to make it thru sections to the X. Personally , I think the chances are pretty good for any of the three of them
LOL! Of course you would say its good. You are one of the hosts gramps!

Get your LN facts straight though. Thanks

TheHockeyDJ
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Post by TheHockeyDJ » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:42 am

Thanks for putting this show together. I don't agree with all of the opinions, but it would be boring if I did.
YouTube.com/BarbellMedicine

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:01 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:Thanks for putting this show together. I don't agree with all of the opinions, but it would be boring if I did.
Well, yeah, that's kinda the idea. We're trying to mix it up and be interesting and annoy Sats. Plus I think Tony and Danny are even bigger East shills than I am. :P

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:09 am

karl(east) wrote:
TheHockeyDJ wrote:Thanks for putting this show together. I don't agree with all of the opinions, but it would be boring if I did.
Well, yeah, that's kinda the idea. We're trying to mix it up and be interesting and annoy Sats. Plus I think Tony and Danny are even bigger East shills than I am. :P
The only thing that I get annoyed with is West Metro/Tony Scott spouting off BS as if fact. It's how silly misconceptions begin. Plus, you would think the guy would want to get things straight so he can acquire new premium subscribers to spin to.....

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:27 am

Karl, You need to stay on point when your cohosts get a little mixed up on some stuff. All in all the show is fun, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story" :D

green4
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Post by green4 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:01 am

I just found some time to listen, and it is my duty to defend Edina, so here I go. I realize on a show where you give an answer right in the moment, it might not come out exactly how you intend, so I am not offended or anything, but I want to clarify. At one point, I thought the host of the show did a nice job explaining why Edina could reach state, it was then pointed out that Edina only had to play Burnsville and Jefferson. It was said in a way that made it seem like Edina only made it to state each year because of the easy section. Sure, if they played in 6AA they woudn't have made it each year, but 2AA was better than a lot of sections going back to 2007.
I know I had this discussion a bit last year, but I do want to say I am happy they evened out 2AA and 6AA. I think if the Hornets make it to state this year, it might be a little more special, but in future years I can probably expect a heartbreak or two.
With that said, everyone seems to forget over Edina's string of state appearances, how good some teams Burnsville and Jefferson had. 2008 was the year they put Edina, Burnsville and Jefferson together. Burnsville was coming off I believe a 4th place finish in state, they played Grand Rapids tight in the semis (something Edina didn't do in the quarters), returned a lot of players and that following year took Lee, Budish and Everson to overtime and barely lost. They had guys like Tyler Barnes, Zack King, May and a pretty good goalie if I remember correctly.
The next two years, Jefferson was in the section finals. One of those years, Jefferson was a top 3 team, they were the one seed in sections, and only had one lost before the final. They had some really talented players on those teams, but they couldn't get by Edina. Those were Jefferson's last real good teams. It probably dropped from a 3 team section to a two team section at that point, and the second team being a 10-15 in rankings, but 2014 Burnsville was a top 7 team. That was the only team that the current Burnsville coach has had that has ever beaten Edina, too bad it was during the regular season.
It is interesting when you look at Jefferson and Burnsville now. Both are struggling with numbers and a lot of their best players leave. It kind of makes me wonder how much Edina played a part in that. The programs were probably gonna dry up on their own, but what if Jefferson went to state in 2009 and 2010? What if Sheehy, Kivihalme, Boeser, Rossini would have stayed? Perhaps things would have been different.

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:09 am

green4 wrote:I just found some time to listen, and it is my duty to defend Edina, so here I go. I realize on a show where you give an answer right in the moment, it might not come out exactly how you intend, so I am not offended or anything, but I want to clarify. At one point, I thought the host of the show did a nice job explaining why Edina could reach state, it was then pointed out that Edina only had to play Burnsville and Jefferson. It was said in a way that made it seem like Edina only made it to state each year because of the easy section. Sure, if they played in 6AA they woudn't have made it each year, but 2AA was better than a lot of sections going back to 2007.
I know I had this discussion a bit last year, but I do want to say I am happy they evened out 2AA and 6AA. I think if the Hornets make it to state this year, it might be a little more special, but in future years I can probably expect a heartbreak or two.
With that said, everyone seems to forget over Edina's string of state appearances, how good some teams Burnsville and Jefferson had. 2008 was the year they put Edina, Burnsville and Jefferson together. Burnsville was coming off I believe a 4th place finish in state, they played Grand Rapids tight in the semis (something Edina didn't do in the quarters), returned a lot of players and that following year took Lee, Budish and Everson to overtime and barely lost. They had guys like Tyler Barnes, Zack King, May and a pretty good goalie if I remember correctly.
The next two years, Jefferson was in the section finals. One of those years, Jefferson was a top 3 team, they were the one seed in sections, and only had one lost before the final. They had some really talented players on those teams, but they couldn't get by Edina. Those were Jefferson's last real good teams. It probably dropped from a 3 team section to a two team section at that point, and the second team being a 10-15 in rankings, but 2014 Burnsville was a top 7 team. That was the only team that the current Burnsville coach has had that has ever beaten Edina, too bad it was during the regular season.
It is interesting when you look at Jefferson and Burnsville now. Both are struggling with numbers and a lot of their best players leave. It kind of makes me wonder how much Edina played a part in that. The programs were probably gonna dry up on their own, but what if Jefferson went to state in 2009 and 2010? What if Sheehy, Kivihalme, Boeser, Rossini would have stayed? Perhaps things would have been different.
This really has nothing to do with Edina's success....and those high end kids at Burnsville staying through their sr years would NOT have changed what Burnsville's program is left with now. The suburb has changed dramatically in the last 7-10 yrs and will continue to do so. The numbers simply are NOT there and after this year they will spiral down until they are forced to be a class A school or drop hockey within the next 5-10 yrs all together. Sad state of affairs for the once proud Braves and my man Wendy Clark.

WendyClark
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Post by WendyClark » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:23 pm

Yep numbers in Burnsville are dropping fast, yes they have 4 bantam teams but only 2 peewee teams and neither have a AA team. I only hope this is a lull but i highly doubt it

I know Sats will agree with me here, Burnsville should have never been taken out of section 1

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:37 pm

Sats81 wrote: The numbers simply are NOT there and after this year they will spiral down until they are forced to be a class A school or drop hockey within the next 5-10 yrs all together. Sad state of affairs for the once proud Braves and my man Wendy Clark.
Burnsville H.S. and middle school run a 35%-40% F/R lunch rate, that's in line with schools like Hopkins, Osseo, Armstrong, and Southwest.

Burnsville elementary schools (excluding Savage) run around 60% which in line with schools like Fridley, Cooper, South, and Richfield.

I get Green4's point about success breeding success but in the case of Burnsville the socio-economic factors would severely limit any chance of that happening, at least over time.

F/R rate for AA 2015 section finalists: (2014-2015 data)
Lakeville North - 7.66%
Farmington - 16.46%
Edina - 8.29%
Burnsville - 35.21%
Eastview - 16.87%
STA - Private/NA
Stillwater - 11.77%
Hill-Murray - Private/NA
Centennial - 26.46%
Blaine - 27.08%
Minnetonka - 6.1%
Eden Prairie - 17.39%
Duluth East - 21.92%
Elk River - 14.19%
Moorhead - 29.93%
Bemidji - 38.74%

Even in this group Burnsville is an outlier for a metro school, the two schools anywhere near them, Blaine and Centennial, are holding pretty firm at their current rates while Burnsville's rate will increase drastically over the coming years.

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:10 pm

WendyClark wrote:Yep numbers in Burnsville are dropping fast, yes they have 4 bantam teams but only 2 peewee teams and neither have a AA team. I only hope this is a lull but i highly doubt it

I know Sats will agree with me here, Burnsville should have never been taken out of section 1
I don't even think bringing in Mark Oseicki to coach the HS would change anything Wendy. It really is sad as those mid-late 80s Burnsville teams were the epitome of what HS hockey in mn was all about. Big, tough, multi sport athletes with jet black unis taking everyone behind the woodshed and giving them an old fashioned beat down. Boom boom Scotty bloom, Mark O, lance werness, Mark Olsen, Todd okerlund. Those were some great teams. Glory days.

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:18 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Sats81 wrote: The numbers simply are NOT there and after this year they will spiral down until they are forced to be a class A school or drop hockey within the next 5-10 yrs all together. Sad state of affairs for the once proud Braves and my man Wendy Clark.
Burnsville H.S. and middle school run a 35%-40% F/R lunch rate, that's in line with schools like Hopkins, Osseo, Armstrong, and Southwest.

Burnsville elementary schools (excluding Savage) run around 60% which in line with schools like Fridley, Cooper, South, and Richfield.

I get Green4's point about success breeding success but in the case of Burnsville the socio-economic factors would severely limit any chance of that happening, at least over time.

F/R rate for AA 2015 section finalists: (2014-2015 data)
Lakeville North - 7.66%
Farmington - 16.46%
Edina - 8.29%
Burnsville - 35.21%
Eastview - 16.87%
STA - Private/NA
Stillwater - 11.77%
Hill-Murray - Private/NA
Centennial - 26.46%
Blaine - 27.08%
Minnetonka - 6.1%
Eden Prairie - 17.39%
Duluth East - 21.92%
Elk River - 14.19%
Moorhead - 29.93%
Bemidji - 38.74%

Even in this group Burnsville is an outlier for a metro school, the two schools anywhere near them, Blaine and Centennial, are holding pretty firm at their current rates while Burnsville's rate will increase drastically over the coming years.
Thanks for these stats goldy. These say a lot in my opinion.

Despite what people think, these numbers seem to follow a pattern. I'm sure the Rochester schools have very high %s too hence the decline in their competitiveness.

Curious what Ep, wayzata And chanhassen are?

green4
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Post by green4 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:16 pm

Sats81 wrote:
green4 wrote:I just found some time to listen, and it is my duty to defend Edina, so here I go. I realize on a show where you give an answer right in the moment, it might not come out exactly how you intend, so I am not offended or anything, but I want to clarify. At one point, I thought the host of the show did a nice job explaining why Edina could reach state, it was then pointed out that Edina only had to play Burnsville and Jefferson. It was said in a way that made it seem like Edina only made it to state each year because of the easy section. Sure, if they played in 6AA they woudn't have made it each year, but 2AA was better than a lot of sections going back to 2007.
I know I had this discussion a bit last year, but I do want to say I am happy they evened out 2AA and 6AA. I think if the Hornets make it to state this year, it might be a little more special, but in future years I can probably expect a heartbreak or two.
With that said, everyone seems to forget over Edina's string of state appearances, how good some teams Burnsville and Jefferson had. 2008 was the year they put Edina, Burnsville and Jefferson together. Burnsville was coming off I believe a 4th place finish in state, they played Grand Rapids tight in the semis (something Edina didn't do in the quarters), returned a lot of players and that following year took Lee, Budish and Everson to overtime and barely lost. They had guys like Tyler Barnes, Zack King, May and a pretty good goalie if I remember correctly.
The next two years, Jefferson was in the section finals. One of those years, Jefferson was a top 3 team, they were the one seed in sections, and only had one lost before the final. They had some really talented players on those teams, but they couldn't get by Edina. Those were Jefferson's last real good teams. It probably dropped from a 3 team section to a two team section at that point, and the second team being a 10-15 in rankings, but 2014 Burnsville was a top 7 team. That was the only team that the current Burnsville coach has had that has ever beaten Edina, too bad it was during the regular season.
It is interesting when you look at Jefferson and Burnsville now. Both are struggling with numbers and a lot of their best players leave. It kind of makes me wonder how much Edina played a part in that. The programs were probably gonna dry up on their own, but what if Jefferson went to state in 2009 and 2010? What if Sheehy, Kivihalme, Boeser, Rossini would have stayed? Perhaps things would have been different.
This really has nothing to do with Edina's success....and those high end kids at Burnsville staying through their sr years would NOT have changed what Burnsville's program is left with now. The suburb has changed dramatically in the last 7-10 yrs and will continue to do so. The numbers simply are NOT there and after this year they will spiral down until they are forced to be a class A school or drop hockey within the next 5-10 yrs all together. Sad state of affairs for the once proud Braves and my man Wendy Clark.
I didn't intend to make it sound like those Burnsville players staying would save the program. I think my point of bringing those players up was just to say they probably could have taken down an Edina team once or twice if they stayed, notably Sheehy's year. But, I think the reason a lot of them left early is the idea that they couldn't overcome Edina. I mean, those kids were under 10 the last time they saw a Burnsville team go to state.
But I have seen the changes of Burnsville's demographics posted on here before, so I was aware and did not intend to make it sound like these kids could have saved it.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:17 pm

Eden Prairie - 17.39%
Chanhassen - 7.52%
Chaska - 26.81
Wayzata - 11.67%
Prior Lake - 10.54%

John Marshall 35%
Mayo 31%
Century 24%, in 2007 Century was at about 10% for some reference.
The Rochester middle schools all run at about a 45% rate.

northwoods oldtimer
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Post by northwoods oldtimer » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:42 pm

Sats81 wrote:
WendyClark wrote:Yep numbers in Burnsville are dropping fast, yes they have 4 bantam teams but only 2 peewee teams and neither have a AA team. I only hope this is a lull but i highly doubt it

I know Sats will agree with me here, Burnsville should have never been taken out of section 1
I don't even think bringing in Mark Oseicki to coach the HS would change anything Wendy. It really is sad as those mid-late 80s Burnsville teams were the epitome of what HS hockey in mn was all about. Big, tough, multi sport athletes with jet black unis taking everyone behind the woodshed and giving them an old fashioned beat down. Boom boom Scotty bloom, Mark O, lance werness, Mark Olsen, Todd okerlund. Those were some great teams. Glory days.
Hockey used to be about blue collar work ethic and feeder systems brimming with numbers. Sadly with the demise of our industry in this country due to the sellouts in Washingtion we are left with hockey played in large part by entitled wealthier kids and it shows on the ice. Nothing wrong with rich kids playing hockey, just most teams lack grit and athletic depth that was provided in years past when numbers were strong. That is the reason you don't see those surprise 'cinderella story' teams in this era. The divide between the have and have not's widens each passing year and we annually lose programs (Richfield this year). Too few playing an expensive game.

grindiangrad-80
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Post by grindiangrad-80 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:17 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
WendyClark wrote:Yep numbers in Burnsville are dropping fast, yes they have 4 bantam teams but only 2 peewee teams and neither have a AA team. I only hope this is a lull but i highly doubt it

I know Sats will agree with me here, Burnsville should have never been taken out of section 1
I don't even think bringing in Mark Oseicki to coach the HS would change anything Wendy. It really is sad as those mid-late 80s Burnsville teams were the epitome of what HS hockey in mn was all about. Big, tough, multi sport athletes with jet black unis taking everyone behind the woodshed and giving them an old fashioned beat down. Boom boom Scotty bloom, Mark O, lance werness, Mark Olsen, Todd okerlund. Those were some great teams. Glory days.
Hockey used to be about blue collar work ethic and feeder systems brimming with numbers. Sadly with the demise of our industry in this country due to the sellouts in Washingtion we are left with hockey played in large part by entitled wealthier kids and it shows on the ice. Nothing wrong with rich kids playing hockey, just most teams lack grit and athletic depth that was provided in years past when numbers were strong. That is the reason you don't see those surprise 'cinderella story' teams in this era. The divide between the have and have not's widens each passing year and we annually lose programs (Richfield this year). Too few playing an expensive game.
You hit the nail on the head here Northwoods.


Miracleon82ndstreet
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Post by Miracleon82ndstreet » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:21 am

Sats81 wrote:"half the north kids grew up playing at south"- Tony Scott

For a guy with little credibility to begin with, its continues to erode with that comment.

Enebak=only 1. Guess that's half the team. :roll: :roll:
Hey Sats, don't forget Reed Smith! It's still far from half though.

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:22 am

Miracleon82ndstreet wrote:
Sats81 wrote:"half the north kids grew up playing at south"- Tony Scott

For a guy with little credibility to begin with, its continues to erode with that comment.

Enebak=only 1. Guess that's half the team. :roll: :roll:
Hey Sats, don't forget Reed Smith! It's still far from half though.
Family moved into the north district

Miracleon82ndstreet
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Post by Miracleon82ndstreet » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:29 am

Sats81 wrote:
Miracleon82ndstreet wrote:
Sats81 wrote:"half the north kids grew up playing at south"- Tony Scott

For a guy with little credibility to begin with, its continues to erode with that comment.

Enebak=only 1. Guess that's half the team. :roll: :roll:
Hey Sats, don't forget Reed Smith! It's still far from half though.
Family moved into the north district
That's right! My bad!

Sats81
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:29 am

Post by Sats81 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:38 am

green4 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
green4 wrote:I just found some time to listen, and it is my duty to defend Edina, so here I go. I realize on a show where you give an answer right in the moment, it might not come out exactly how you intend, so I am not offended or anything, but I want to clarify. At one point, I thought the host of the show did a nice job explaining why Edina could reach state, it was then pointed out that Edina only had to play Burnsville and Jefferson. It was said in a way that made it seem like Edina only made it to state each year because of the easy section. Sure, if they played in 6AA they woudn't have made it each year, but 2AA was better than a lot of sections going back to 2007.
I know I had this discussion a bit last year, but I do want to say I am happy they evened out 2AA and 6AA. I think if the Hornets make it to state this year, it might be a little more special, but in future years I can probably expect a heartbreak or two.
With that said, everyone seems to forget over Edina's string of state appearances, how good some teams Burnsville and Jefferson had. 2008 was the year they put Edina, Burnsville and Jefferson together. Burnsville was coming off I believe a 4th place finish in state, they played Grand Rapids tight in the semis (something Edina didn't do in the quarters), returned a lot of players and that following year took Lee, Budish and Everson to overtime and barely lost. They had guys like Tyler Barnes, Zack King, May and a pretty good goalie if I remember correctly.
The next two years, Jefferson was in the section finals. One of those years, Jefferson was a top 3 team, they were the one seed in sections, and only had one lost before the final. They had some really talented players on those teams, but they couldn't get by Edina. Those were Jefferson's last real good teams. It probably dropped from a 3 team section to a two team section at that point, and the second team being a 10-15 in rankings, but 2014 Burnsville was a top 7 team. That was the only team that the current Burnsville coach has had that has ever beaten Edina, too bad it was during the regular season.
It is interesting when you look at Jefferson and Burnsville now. Both are struggling with numbers and a lot of their best players leave. It kind of makes me wonder how much Edina played a part in that. The programs were probably gonna dry up on their own, but what if Jefferson went to state in 2009 and 2010? What if Sheehy, Kivihalme, Boeser, Rossini would have stayed? Perhaps things would have been different.
This really has nothing to do with Edina's success....and those high end kids at Burnsville staying through their sr years would NOT have changed what Burnsville's program is left with now. The suburb has changed dramatically in the last 7-10 yrs and will continue to do so. The numbers simply are NOT there and after this year they will spiral down until they are forced to be a class A school or drop hockey within the next 5-10 yrs all together. Sad state of affairs for the once proud Braves and my man Wendy Clark.
I didn't intend to make it sound like those Burnsville players staying would save the program. I think my point of bringing those players up was just to say they probably could have taken down an Edina team once or twice if they stayed, notably Sheehy's year. But, I think the reason a lot of them left early is the idea that they couldn't overcome Edina. I mean, those kids were under 10 the last time they saw a Burnsville team go to state.
But I have seen the changes of Burnsville's demographics posted on here before, so I was aware and did not intend to make it sound like these kids could have saved it.
Sorry Green- again you are wrong in assuming this. Boeser left because there was NO chance he was playing another year of HS hockey as he really had little left to prove. Every NHL scout on the planet will tell you that and NOTHING could have/would have saved him from staying in HS. Proof is in the pudding with him being a 1st round pick, dominating the USHL last year as a HS senior and having an ENORMOUS freshman year at UND. Sheehy went into the USHL and had 2 excellent seasons also and is having a very nice freshman year at the U playing on a line with Kloos. Kivihalme at the time was probably the most sought after HS D-men in MN by NHL scouts and if dad's the head coach and he still lives I think that really says it all. Rossini, same thing. Highly sought after D1 d-man, thought his best chances to develop were to leave early and play in the USHL I know you are the biggest Edina apologist on the face of the earth, but saying you think the reason a lot of them left early was the idea that they couldn't overcome Edina is very silly. Believe it or not, a lot of these kids main goal in hockey isn't to play in/Win the HS hockey tournament. In the case of Boeser, Sheehy, Kivihalme and Rossini, their primary objectives as players was to advance their respective careers and they and the people around them thought that moving up to the USHL faster would give them the highest probability of doing so and I can assure you the "fear of not being able to overcome Edina" had ZERO to do with their decisions.

GoldenBear
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Post by GoldenBear » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:58 am

Sats, that is why the Lakeville North squad last year was truly special in that those kids were "be true to your school" kids and decided to postpone personal wealth/accomplishments to a later date. A very rare thing in this age of parents wanting/pushing their kids to move on instead of smelling the roses. GB

Sats81
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Post by Sats81 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:03 am

GoldenBear wrote:Sats, that is why the Lakeville North squad last year was truly special in that those kids were "be true to your school" kids and decided to postpone personal wealth/accomplishments to a later date. A very rare thing in this age of parents wanting/pushing their kids to move on instead of smelling the roses. GB
Very true. Although I am not sure if anyone on that team was/will be as good as Brock Boeser. Time will tell.

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