Class A semifinal: SPA vs. Hermantown

[BobSaget]

Hermantown is a complete joke! SPA is a legitimate A team and the Hawks are taking a crap on em. Any A title isn't even worth celebrating, especially after the display by A enrollment schools GR and Bemidji last night.

Agreed. Hermantown is about to put yet another top ten A team into running time, while two teams they beat by a combined score of 10-3 are about to play in the AA semis tonight.

Plante let these kids down by not giving them a chance to compete in AA. Embarrassing.

Agreed. I don't care if they destroy class A teams. It's kind of hilarious. But, in 10 years, these kids will may feel cheated out of a chance to be called the best of the best.

Still an accomplishment...but a pro baseball player would rather hit .250 in the bigs than .400 in AAA.

[kniven]

Hermantown is a complete joke! SPA is a legitimate A team and the Hawks are taking a crap on em. Any A title isn't even worth celebrating, especially after the display by A enrollment schools GR and Bemidji last night.

Agreed. Hermantown is about to put yet another top ten A team into running time, while two teams they beat by a combined score of 10-3 are about to play in the AA semis tonight.

Plante let these kids down by not giving them a chance to compete in AA. Embarrassing.

Agreed. I don't care if they destroy class A teams. It's kind of hilarious. But, in 10 years, these kids will may feel cheated out of a chance to be called the best of the best.

Still an accomplishment...but a pro baseball player would rather hit .250 in the bigs than .400 in AAA.

I'll second that. Hermantown and their AA hockey program sucking any excitement out of the A tournament yet again. It's sad.

[rainier]

My favorite tweet of the day, courtesy of Karl: "After a two-year drought, Hermantown reclaims the Public School State Championship. They will play to avoid the 7-peat vs. Breck tomorrow."

My second favorite tweet, courtesy Duluth East assistant coach Brendan Brooks on the A semis: "As a coach and a fan of MN high school hockey I'm at a loss for what I've seen today. It can't be what was intended."

I'm pulling for Wayzata and GR, because if that's the AA title game, then the two teams in the A title game will have gone 2-1 vs the AA teams, outscoring them 11-5, and the only loss for the A teams was an OT loss. But, as we know, Breck and Hermantown can't compete with the best teams in AA!

[LASERBLUE135]

While I agree the A field is a joke this year it's hard for Hermantown to step up to AA with 6 years of disappointment. I'd like to believe if Hermantown won a few of the past finals they would be playing AA today.

Now it's too late. They have been a force behind the farce of A top heaviness for years and made an embarrassment of that side of the tournament. I really really hope they finally win one because if they don't I feel they will continue the illegitimacy the A tournament. In their current title game run the A tournament has lost all hope of gaining any reasonable reputation for competitive hockey and excitement. Pretty clear it would have taken a "miracle on ice" performance to keep either Breck or Hermantown from the title game this year.

[rainier]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

It was also interesting to hear Tenna B today talk about how "odd it was that Hermantown plays AA in youth but steps down for HS."

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

While I agree that these schools should move up, forgive me for not being one of those who thinks Nanne walks on water, and everything he says is gospel.

[rainier]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

While I agree that these schools should move up, forgive me for not being one of those who thinks Nanne walks on water, and everything he says is gospel.

Neither do I, but the point is that many, many people do, so when he says it, people listen. STA opted up soon after Louie said the same about them.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

While I agree that these schools should move up, forgive me for not being one of those who thinks Nanne walks on water, and everything he says is gospel.

Neither do I, but the point is that many, many people do, so when he says it, people listen. STA opted up soon after Louie said the same about them.

Understood, but Plante strikes me as someone else who could care less what Nanne thinks.

Of course, those above him may be otherwise.

[Jeffy95]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

It was also interesting to hear Tenna B today talk about how "odd it was that Hermantown plays AA in youth but steps down for HS."

Perkyman said that Nanne just wants them out of the way so Hibbing can go to State.

[rainier]

Well, it finally happened. Lou Nanne just called for Hermantown to move up to AA on the Dan Barreiro show. He said Hermantown and Breck are as good as the AA tourney teams and should both be in AA, and that would make the AA and A tournaments better.

It was just a matter of time, and now we have the Godfather of MN hockey acknowledging the stupidity of Breck and Hermantown staying in A.

It was also interesting to hear Tenna B today talk about how "odd it was that Hermantown plays AA in youth but steps down for HS."

Perkyman said that Nanne just wants them out of the way so Hibbing can go to State.

What's ironic about your statement is that when Nanne was talking about how Hermantown should be in AA he said that "there are great players up north that no one gets to see in the A tournament." I have to assume he was talking about 7A players such as Perunovich, Ullan, Lantz, Seitz, Alander, etc. So you are right about Nanne wanting to get Hermantown out of Hibbing's way.

Best insane statements from Plante's postgame yesterday:

On moving up to AA: "I know our youth program doesn't want to do it."
So the youth program is all about playing AA hockey until high school starts. The sandbagging mentality in Hermantown is truly systemic. The Hawks have outscored their 5 playoff opponents 47-6 so far, and beat two of the 4 AA semifinal teams during the regular season, but they are "where they belong."

On kicking butt in A: (paraphrase) "I think the average Class A schools who play in AA should play A. It should go by enrollment."

Yeah Bruce, I'm sure Grand Rapids and Bemidji would be happy to trade the AA tourney experience they had so they could trounce LDC in front of 1,000 fans. Plante's lame idea wouldn't change much of anything anyway in A, as if public school opt ups went back to A, it would just mean GR and Cloquet would go to 7A and Bemidji and Roseau would go to 8A. Given that Hermantown usually beats GR and CEC, the only change at the A tourney would be possibly Roseau or Bemidji if they won 8A.

Not to mention he just insulted GR by calling them an "average" AA team. Yeah, GR is so "average" that they will play for 3rd place in AA today. Also, Bemidji is in the AA tourney, Cloquet is about to start a run of teams that will likely be top ten AA caliber, and Roseau has some youth teams that are doing very well in AA right now and should be right there in 8AA soon. These teams wouldn't trade where they are for all the 2nd place A trophies on Earth, Bruce. The arrogance of this guy is off the charts.

He also doesn't seem to realize that if his "enrollment" only dream came true, then STA, BSM, HM, and all of the other private schools that have A-sized enrollment would then be at the tourney. Unless of course he means that private schools wouldn't be allowed in his A utopia. I guess anything that keeps his team the favorite to win the title is the best set up in his mind.

What a joke.

[mulefarm]

It would be interesting to see what the A tournament would look like if schools had to play in their classification by enrollment? I would think this would increase the interest and attendance in the A tournament. Why would this be bad?

[Jeffy95]

It would be interesting to see what the A tournament would look like if schools had to play in their classification by enrollment? I would think this would increase the interest and attendance in the A tournament. Why would this be bad?

You're probably right but that isn't why they went to two classes. Their stated goal was so that small town, community programs would have a chance to experience the state tournament who wouldn't have that chance otherwise.

The MSHSL is well aware that enrollment doesn't mean much in a sport like Hockey. Hermantown has kids in their program from every Single Association in the Duluth Metro area, the Iron Range and even have a kid from Colorado but they don't have to count any additional enrollment. One Elite player from Duluth/Proctor/Ely/Hibbing or Virginia is worth at least 100-200 kids in the general enrollment who may not be that good or may not even play hockey. That's why the MSHSL refused to use enrollment initially. And that was back when open-enrollment was new and kids weren't choosing schools based on the hockey program. They knew enrollment couldn't accomplish their goal, so they tried Tier 1 and Tier 2 instead. When that was a failure, enrollment with self-policing opt ups was all they had left.

It almost worked. All of the AA progrms with A enrollments have moved up except Hermantown and Breck. If they don't all move up then it doesn't work and you get what we have today. So if this is what we're left with then you probably have a good point, just go by strict enrollment and don't allow opt-ups. Then we can watch Hill Murray, STA, Rapids/Cloquet/Hermantown, Bemidji/Roseau and Breck battle it out for the A title. The A tourney would be better but then you have to ask yourself, why not just go back to one class?

[rainier]

It would be interesting to see what the A tournament would look like if schools had to play in their classification by enrollment? I would think this would increase the interest and attendance in the A tournament. Why would this be bad?

Sure, if BSM, HM, STA, HF, GR, Bemidji, etc. were in A along with Breck and Hermantown, the A tourney would have more parity, but then no actual small community school would ever win a game at state again, if they even made it.

There would be years that the A tourney would be stronger than the AA tourney. Does this sound right to you? Would the AA tourney be as exciting knowing that half of the top ten teams in the state are in the A tourney?

If you're looking to kill hockey everywhere in the state other than the TC metro, Duluth metro, and 3 outstate cities, then this would be a great idea. I don't think that was the intention of creating Class A.

If Breck and Hermantown were in AA, then teams like Delano and Hibbing or Greenway would likely be in it, and you'd have exciting, close game semis instead of the two extremely boring butt whoopings we saw yesterday.

Everyone loved the single class tourney, and the best way to get back to that is if teams opt up when they know they can compete well in AA. If Breck and Hermantown were in AA, then you'd have the best 20 teams in the state all competing in the AA playoffs this year, and that would be as close to the single class tourney as your ever going to get.

[mulefarm]

You make some good points. People said two class hockey would kill the tournament. If schools can opt up every 2 years, why can't schools opt down to be at competitive levels. Is the AA level fair for Mpls, outstate coops, communities like St Louis Park,Brooklyn Park etc. Do they have a chance of making the state tournament? Why would the MSHSL not care as much about these communities as much Hibbing, Ely etc? Back in the late 70"s George Larson, the coach of Brooklyn Center, started the discussion about the 2 class system. He had 5 or 6 different criteria that would determine which class you were in. I believe the coaches association were in agreement, but the HS league wanted something across the board that would be in place for all sports, and enrollment was the one constant factor.
It should be just as easy for a school to opt down as it is to opt up?

[rainier]

You make some good points. People said two class hockey would kill the tournament. If schools can opt up every 2 years, why can't schools opt down to be at competitive levels. Is the AA level fair for Mpls, outstate coops, communities like St Louis Park,Brooklyn Park etc. Do they have a chance of making the state tournament? Why would the MSHSL not care as much about these communities as much Hibbing, Ely etc? Back in the late 70"s George Larson, the coach of Brooklyn Center, started the discussion about the 2 class system. He had 5 or 6 different criteria that would determine which class you were in. I believe the coaches association were in agreement, but the HS league wanted something across the board that would be in place for all sports, and enrollment was the one constant factor.
It should be just as easy for a school to opt down as it is to opt up?

The difference for those AA programs you speak of is that there are tons of kids that could easily open enroll into those schools and make their team better, but this is not the case for teams like TRF, Hibbing, Greenway, Little Falls, etc. These towns have what they have and can't rely on the suburb right next to them to provide talent.

[mulefarm]

So, these communities should recruit to get better? I don't think you understand the dynamics in some of these inter-city or suburban schools. I don't believe that you have to make the state tournament to have a successful season. It's definitely nice, and a team goal, but for many A and AA teams it is not realistic, but still get plenty of benefits from being on a team.

[rainier]

So, these communities should recruit to get better? I don't think you understand the dynamics in some of these inter-city or suburban schools. I don't believe that you have to make the state tournament to have a successful season. It's definitely nice, and a team goal, but for many A and AA teams it is not realistic, but still get plenty of benefits from being on a team.

No need to recruit, just do what Hermantown does and find a way to get the best players from nearby schools to open enroll to your school. Many ways this can be done.

You're right, going to state is not realistic for many teams, especially when teams sandbag in A.

[mulefarm]

It seems you are only focused on what is best for your team, but try to hide behind what is best for hockey. There are so many variables in having a successful program, such as cost, ice time, parental support, community support, facilities and coaching. People were upset at Warroad a few years ago when they were winning, now I don't hear anything about them moving up. As long as they are following the MSHSL rules, it should be their decision. The playing field will never be level, but until the HS league makes changes, it is what it is.

[rainier]

It seems you are only focused on what is best for your team, but try to hide behind what is best for hockey. There are so many variables in having a successful program, such as cost, ice time, parental support, community support, facilities and coaching. People were upset at Warroad a few years ago when they were winning, now I don't hear anything about them moving up. As long as they are following the MSHSL rules, it should be their decision. The playing field will never be level, but until the HS league makes changes, it is what it is.

I agree, it should be their decision, but that doesn't mean we all have to agree it was the right decision. In fact, the vast majority of people would say they made a terrible decision by staying in A when they could have been AA champion this year.

You are correct, it is what it is.

[hockeymannorth]

Maybe there should be 4 or 5 classes ,and what about all the kids that go to big schools that didn't make their HS team. lets have all AA HS host A teams too so more kids can have a chance. most small schools kids make HS teams in 8th or 9th grade and get letter jackets that many good players at big schools never get, so get over it!

[kniven]

Hermantown is a complete joke! SPA is a legitimate A team and the Hawks are taking a crap on em. Any A title isn't even worth celebrating, especially after the display by A enrollment schools GR and Bemidji last night.

Agreed. Hermantown is about to put yet another top ten A team into running time, while two teams they beat by a combined score of 10-3 are about to play in the AA semis tonight.

Plante let these kids down by not giving them a chance to compete in AA. Embarrassing.

Agreed. I don't care if they destroy class A teams. It's kind of hilarious. But, in 10 years, these kids will may feel cheated out of a chance to be called the best of the best.

Still an accomplishment...but a pro baseball player would rather hit .250 in the bigs than .400 in AAA.

So who meets Hermantown in the state championship game next year?

[kniven]

Hermantown is a complete joke! SPA is a legitimate A team and the Hawks are taking a crap on em. Any A title isn't even worth celebrating, especially after the display by A enrollment schools GR and Bemidji last night.

Agreed. Hermantown is about to put yet another top ten A team into running time, while two teams they beat by a combined score of 10-3 are about to play in the AA semis tonight.

Plante let these kids down by not giving them a chance to compete in AA. Embarrassing.

Agreed. I don't care if they destroy class A teams. It's kind of hilarious. But, in 10 years, these kids will may feel cheated out of a chance to be called the best of the best.

Still an accomplishment...but a pro baseball player would rather hit .250 in the bigs than .400 in AAA.

Bruce Plante Discusses Hermantown Future
http://www.fox21online.com/sports/Bruce ... Rk.twitter