Simply sad..
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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Section 8 guy
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[/quote]
Bored arguing with a bunch of whiners because there kid isn't good enough. I'll see your kids at nationals..... Oh wait maybe I won't[/quote]
You can tell 247 clings to his kid's success. Possibly because he fell short himself. His kid finally made it for the first time and he is basking in it.
Act like you've been there chief, some of us have, and your grandstanding is pathetic.
Bored arguing with a bunch of whiners because there kid isn't good enough. I'll see your kids at nationals..... Oh wait maybe I won't[/quote]
You can tell 247 clings to his kid's success. Possibly because he fell short himself. His kid finally made it for the first time and he is basking in it.
Act like you've been there chief, some of us have, and your grandstanding is pathetic.
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hunting247
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Bluewhitefan
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hunting247
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NotMinnesotan
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Pretty sure Mass hockey is alive and well. When was the last prep school game you watched?Mnhockeys wrote:Maybe stay up there? ... sounds like Massachusetts needs a lot of help in hockey development and your knowledge may be helpful to them.hunting247 wrote:Again.......no horse in this race. Regardless I will still be in New York for the national camp. Nice try though.
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old goalie85
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NotMinnesotan
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InigoMontoya
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in all fairness to Mr Melon, it was a really big check.Mnhockeys wrote:You asked the wrong crowd for bribery.hunting247 wrote:Bribe me a little and I will get you the national listMnhockeys wrote: Get 247's connection and he will teach us how to use his perfect system.
Surprised that the getting-cut part was not explained as to teach kids a good lesson.
Now you just admit you are parts of the imperfect system!
I coach a varsity high school sport and let me tell you. Kid A exists. Kid A exists all over the place. Just as much as Kid B or Kid C.Bluewhitefan wrote:What a load of crap. Have you actually witnessed this in real life? Kid B represents most kids after suffering disappointment - because kids are resilient. Kid A doesn't exist, except in very isolated situations. What kid B gets tired of is Kid C getting a pass through tryouts every year and continuing to make cuts even though he's no longer the player he was when he was younger. It actually happens 247, and you choose to delude yourself that the process is not flawed. Like it or not, progressing through these tryouts to St. Cloud, or ultimately New York, makes a difference in how players are perceived in the future, whether it's warranted or not. And just working harder isn't necessarily enough to alter perceptions of people that look at past accolades without actually watching the play on the ice.hunting247 wrote:Two kids get cut, kid A sulks about it and does nothing to improve and his parents whine on a hockey forum about the injustice and the corrupt system and tell him/her it was the system to blame. Kid B learns from it and works harder to improve everyday and parents understand and support his/her growth. Which one has more of chance in the future, or a better question which parent are you?
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@hockeytweet
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The High Performance discussion every year is amusing.
It would be better if they just were open about the process, ie: disclosing the names of the evaluators/coaches involved with the grading.
Not that I think deep down that would make a difference.
But you have the surprise players that move along. For that number, you have the equal amount of kids that are a surprise the other way.
I'll go back to my friends "leaked" email list from the 17's Sec 2AA/A. When you have 8 HF kids make it out of phase 1, but maybe only 3 deserved it, you have upset 5 other players. Maybe players from Tonka, Chan, EP, Breck, Orono, or PL etc.
I think 4 HF players made it to the 54. The forum can debate whether that is too high. But you can bet the HF coach is going to use that as a recruiting tool. "Come to Victoria, develop, and get noticed".
And I do not have a horse in that race (section). I just never liked HF from their days in 6AA. LOL
It would be better if they just were open about the process, ie: disclosing the names of the evaluators/coaches involved with the grading.
Not that I think deep down that would make a difference.
But you have the surprise players that move along. For that number, you have the equal amount of kids that are a surprise the other way.
I'll go back to my friends "leaked" email list from the 17's Sec 2AA/A. When you have 8 HF kids make it out of phase 1, but maybe only 3 deserved it, you have upset 5 other players. Maybe players from Tonka, Chan, EP, Breck, Orono, or PL etc.
I think 4 HF players made it to the 54. The forum can debate whether that is too high. But you can bet the HF coach is going to use that as a recruiting tool. "Come to Victoria, develop, and get noticed".
And I do not have a horse in that race (section). I just never liked HF from their days in 6AA. LOL
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RRubberbeeskit
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Mite, you are right. The same complaints are here annually. The HP 15s is the only program that is even close to fair. They all should be done the same way. The financial gouging that goes on is bs. The kids all truely think they have a shot at making it and same old crap goes on nearly every year. Its time for true evaluation. The metro kids by far are seen more often by the coaches and evaluators and the end result typically leaves the rosters filled with metro kids. The HP program needs to get it right not just completed.Mite-dad wrote:I was just thinking why they didn't run each level like they do the 15s. Gives more kids and more programs a chance to develop kids at a higher level.4on5again wrote:Far as I can see making St. Cloud camp as a 15 is your best shot at learning. The rest is a showcase.
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HSHockeyFan08
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Here is what I know..
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.
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MrBoDangles
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This, or the post above?BP wrote:The 16 evaluation committee has ZERO HS Coaches.
I'm sure the local scouts and former coaches are going to come from very few areas of the state. Nearly impossible to not have bias.. Any bets on how many of the scouts and former coaches came from the north metro?
I could totally see myself having a hard time looking past the kids I knew.
Again, Going 2-1 on the weekend, out shooting the teams by double and then 22-1 for skaters chosen... Nobody with a clear mind can say its possible in a fair environment..
Congrats to the kids going to New York, some awesome talent in that group!!
[quote="HSHockeyFan08"]Here is what I know..
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.[/quote]
Finally a little transparency. I can't tell if Fan08 is portraying this as a legit process or not. The explanation seems to confirm that this is no where near a pure tryout process. And maybe, anyone who hoped it to be is a pure fool.
So much control with HS coaches. I don't get why they need the coaches to have any input whatsoever for this program. What the heck would a NHL scout, or any evaluator need it for?
HS coaches... wow is that putting trust in the wrong group or what?
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.[/quote]
Finally a little transparency. I can't tell if Fan08 is portraying this as a legit process or not. The explanation seems to confirm that this is no where near a pure tryout process. And maybe, anyone who hoped it to be is a pure fool.
So much control with HS coaches. I don't get why they need the coaches to have any input whatsoever for this program. What the heck would a NHL scout, or any evaluator need it for?
HS coaches... wow is that putting trust in the wrong group or what?
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old goalie85
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Section 8 guy
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It's great to see some insight on how the selections are made. Any idea how this translates for the teams at the HP 15 level that end up with 15 kids advancing?HSHockeyFan08 wrote:Here is what I know..
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.
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SouthernMinnFan
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JoltDelivered
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I wonder if this is what it's like in the parent ranks of C programs around the state when final winter team rosters are posted across all of our associations? Do you think the conversations are much different? I doubt it. The accusations of collusion, politics and of course favoritism due to relationships or last names. Something tells me parents of C players log into sites like this and read this thread and just...well...giggle their a$$ off and say..."How does it feel?" 
"I find tinsel distracting"
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Hockeylogger
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[quote="HSHockeyFan08"]Here is what I know..
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.[/quote]
In speaking with current and former hs coaches this is how the process works, at least in our section.
Sections teams are picked over a tryout that is 4 hours in length. Anywhere from 5-8 evaluators pick the team, this includes the coaches that are coaching the team, the other evaluators besides the coaches are other coaches from the section. From the sounds of it the first 10 kids that make the section team are pretty easy to pick, the next 10 are the hardest, with anywhere between 30-40 kids being so close in skill and talent that you could probably pick any of them and have the same caliber team. It all comes down to what the evaluators see during the tryout, but I'm sure where they are from and what they have done in the past comes into play.
The evaluators at the festival are a combination of current and former hs coaches from the entire state and NHL scouts. I do know that many sections and areas from the state are represented amongst the evaluators, it isn't a concentration of north metro coaches.
The evaluators watch all of the games and evaluate all of the players, the coaches of each team rank their top 6 fwds, 4 D, and goalies after each game. It is unclear of how much the evaluators take these rankings into account when deciding who makes it and who doesn't.
Ultimately, whoever picks the teams and what system is in place is never going to please everyone. My take on it is that there are plenty of kids that have went onto jr, college, and pro that never made it very far in this process. There are also plenty of players that made it very far in this process that never amounted to very much down the road.
Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.
The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.[/quote]
In speaking with current and former hs coaches this is how the process works, at least in our section.
Sections teams are picked over a tryout that is 4 hours in length. Anywhere from 5-8 evaluators pick the team, this includes the coaches that are coaching the team, the other evaluators besides the coaches are other coaches from the section. From the sounds of it the first 10 kids that make the section team are pretty easy to pick, the next 10 are the hardest, with anywhere between 30-40 kids being so close in skill and talent that you could probably pick any of them and have the same caliber team. It all comes down to what the evaluators see during the tryout, but I'm sure where they are from and what they have done in the past comes into play.
The evaluators at the festival are a combination of current and former hs coaches from the entire state and NHL scouts. I do know that many sections and areas from the state are represented amongst the evaluators, it isn't a concentration of north metro coaches.
The evaluators watch all of the games and evaluate all of the players, the coaches of each team rank their top 6 fwds, 4 D, and goalies after each game. It is unclear of how much the evaluators take these rankings into account when deciding who makes it and who doesn't.
Ultimately, whoever picks the teams and what system is in place is never going to please everyone. My take on it is that there are plenty of kids that have went onto jr, college, and pro that never made it very far in this process. There are also plenty of players that made it very far in this process that never amounted to very much down the road.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler
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