Simply sad..

[HSHockeyFan08]

[quote="Hockeylogger"][quote="HSHockeyFan08"]Here is what I know..

Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.

The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.[/quote]

In speaking with current and former hs coaches this is how the process works, at least in our section.

Sections teams are picked over a tryout that is 4 hours in length. Anywhere from 5-8 evaluators pick the team, this includes the coaches that are coaching the team, the other evaluators besides the coaches are other coaches from the section. From the sounds of it the first 10 kids that make the section team are pretty easy to pick, the next 10 are the hardest, with anywhere between 30-40 kids being so close in skill and talent that you could probably pick any of them and have the same caliber team. It all comes down to what the evaluators see during the tryout, but I'm sure where they are from and what they have done in the past comes into play.

The evaluators at the festival are a combination of current and former hs coaches from the entire state and NHL scouts. I do know that many sections and areas from the state are represented amongst the evaluators, it isn't a concentration of north metro coaches.

The evaluators watch all of the games and evaluate all of the players, the coaches of each team rank their top 6 fwds, 4 D, and goalies after each game. It is unclear of how much the evaluators take these rankings into account when deciding who makes it and who doesn't.

Ultimately, whoever picks the teams and what system is in place is never going to please everyone. My take on it is that there are plenty of kids that have went onto jr, college, and pro that never made it very far in this process. There are also plenty of players that made it very far in this process that never amounted to very much down the road.[/quote]

Hockeylogger has it pretty much spot on for how it works.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Here is what I know..

Tryouts for the Section teams are picked by the coaching staffs. There are usually 4-5 coaching staffs that have a heavy presence in the evaluations which in turn results in more players making the roster. I would say there are 7-10 locks going into this phase. This is where politics comes into play and sometimes the best player isn't chosen.

The second phase is evaluated by a combination of NHL scouts and former high school coaches. The coaches that coached in the games give their input to the scouts after each game and rank their top 3 forwards, top 2 defense men, and top goalie. The coaches and scouts compare their rankings and are usually pretty close to one another. This goes on for the first two games - then the scouts start putting together a master list ranking each player from 1-54. 2/3 of the top 54 are picked after the first two games. The final 1/3 is filled in the final day and usually the coaches have the most input in selecting their final 2-3 players.

In speaking with current and former hs coaches this is how the process works, at least in our section.

Sections teams are picked over a tryout that is 4 hours in length. Anywhere from 5-8 evaluators pick the team, this includes the coaches that are coaching the team, the other evaluators besides the coaches are other coaches from the section. From the sounds of it the first 10 kids that make the section team are pretty easy to pick, the next 10 are the hardest, with anywhere between 30-40 kids being so close in skill and talent that you could probably pick any of them and have the same caliber team. It all comes down to what the evaluators see during the tryout, but I'm sure where they are from and what they have done in the past comes into play.

The evaluators at the festival are a combination of current and former hs coaches from the entire state and NHL scouts. I do know that many sections and areas from the state are represented amongst the evaluators, it isn't a concentration of north metro coaches.

The evaluators watch all of the games and evaluate all of the players, the coaches of each team rank their top 6 fwds, 4 D, and goalies after each game. It is unclear of how much the evaluators take these rankings into account when deciding who makes it and who doesn't.

Ultimately, whoever picks the teams and what system is in place is never going to please everyone. My take on it is that there are plenty of kids that have went onto jr, college, and pro that never made it very far in this process. There are also plenty of players that made it very far in this process that never amounted to very much down the road.

Hockeylogger has it pretty much spot on for how it works.

How does this process then pick kids during the festival weekend who aren't even in the state during the weekend, let alone at the rinks involved, as has happened in the past, with kids in the CHL ?

Obviously, "the evaluators watch all the games" would not pertain in such a case.

[hockey59]

In speaking with current and former hs coaches this is how the process works, at least in our section.

Sections teams are picked over a tryout that is 4 hours in length. Anywhere from 5-8 evaluators pick the team, this includes the coaches that are coaching the team, the other evaluators besides the coaches are other coaches from the section. From the sounds of it the first 10 kids that make the section team are pretty easy to pick, the next 10 are the hardest, with anywhere between 30-40 kids being so close in skill and talent that you could probably pick any of them and have the same caliber team. It all comes down to what the evaluators see during the tryout, but I'm sure where they are from and what they have done in the past comes into play.

The evaluators at the festival are a combination of current and former hs coaches from the entire state and NHL scouts. I do know that many sections and areas from the state are represented amongst the evaluators, it isn't a concentration of north metro coaches.

The evaluators watch all of the games and evaluate all of the players, the coaches of each team rank their top 6 fwds, 4 D, and goalies after each game. It is unclear of how much the evaluators take these rankings into account when deciding who makes it and who doesn't.

Ultimately, whoever picks the teams and what system is in place is never going to please everyone. My take on it is that there are plenty of kids that have went onto jr, college, and pro that never made it very far in this process. There are also plenty of players that made it very far in this process that never amounted to very much down the road.

Hockeylogger has it pretty much spot on for how it works.

How does this process then pick kids during the festival weekend who aren't even in the state during the weekend, let alone at the rinks involved, as has happened in the past, with kids in the CHL ?

Obviously, "the evaluators watch all the games" would not pertain in such a case.

A bit surprised by the legs of this thread...you have to go into this process with both eyes open both as a parent and as a player. It's an imperfect process that has political factors involved in the selection process, everybody whose had a kid in this process knows this. That said, for certain players with unique skills such as...explosive speed, great hockey sense, a great shot, great size and strength, etc, etc...they pretty much are able to overcome these factors and go relatively far in the process, despite by definition - an imperfect selection process. And IMO the 15 process isn't necessarily better than the 16 or 17 process on the basis of being longer. The fact is its HARD to make the District and Section teams...its VERY HARD to make the 54 cut and its Exceptionately Hard to make the National Festival (especially out of MN) BUT it is an unique opportunity to shine for certain top end kids. There are plenty of VERY GOOD players who fall short at each stage of the process...as long as they use where they end up as motivation for the future, it will be a learning experience, if nothing else. Because no selection process in hockey is going to be or seem to be fair.

[MrBoDangles]

Hockeylogger has it pretty much spot on for how it works.

How does this process then pick kids during the festival weekend who aren't even in the state during the weekend, let alone at the rinks involved, as has happened in the past, with kids in the CHL ?

Obviously, "the evaluators watch all the games" would not pertain in such a case.

A bit surprised by the legs of this thread...you have to go into this process with both eyes open both as a parent and as a player. It's an imperfect process that has political factors involved in the selection process, everybody whose had a kid in this process knows this. That said, for certain players with unique skills such as...explosive speed, great hockey sense, a great shot, great size and strength, etc, etc...they pretty much are able to overcome these factors and go relatively far in the process, despite by definition - an imperfect selection process. And IMO the 15 process isn't necessarily better than the 16 or 17 process on the basis of being longer. The fact is its HARD to make the District and Section teams...its VERY HARD to make the 54 cut and its Exceptionately Hard to make the National Festival (especially out of MN) BUT it is an unique opportunity to shine for certain top end kids. There are plenty of VERY GOOD players who fall short at each stage of the process...as long as they use where they end up as motivation for the future, it will be a learning experience, if nothing else. Because no selection process in hockey is going to be or seem to be fair.

In your opinion: 22-1 is possible with those shot margins and with a 2-1 record on the weekend? Obviously politics made this 22-1 margin for the 54 selection, correct? Nothing else is humanly possible, but the politics YOU describe. I agree 100+%

"Political factors" but then are you saying they disappeared somewhere? Pretty obvious they didn't end before the 54 selection, right.? So it's very easy to say not to worry about it.

I keep seeing these long posts but nothing explains the impossible with Section 5 and other impossibilities people brought up. Other than they were swept under the rug by the "political" motives you described so well.

Again, I would also look to kids I had involvement with first and others would have to knock it out to get noticed. Obviously 5 was not well represented (or influential) with the selection committee.

On to next year..

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Hockeylogger has it pretty much spot on for how it works.

How does this process then pick kids during the festival weekend who aren't even in the state during the weekend, let alone at the rinks involved, as has happened in the past, with kids in the CHL ?

Obviously, "the evaluators watch all the games" would not pertain in such a case.

A bit surprised by the legs of this thread...you have to go into this process with both eyes open both as a parent and as a player. It's an imperfect process that has political factors involved in the selection process, everybody whose had a kid in this process knows this. That said, for certain players with unique skills such as...explosive speed, great hockey sense, a great shot, great size and strength, etc, etc...they pretty much are able to overcome these factors and go relatively far in the process, despite by definition - an imperfect selection process. And IMO the 15 process isn't necessarily better than the 16 or 17 process on the basis of being longer. The fact is its HARD to make the District and Section teams...its VERY HARD to make the 54 cut and its Exceptionately Hard to make the National Festival (especially out of MN) BUT it is an unique opportunity to shine for certain top end kids. There are plenty of VERY GOOD players who fall short at each stage of the process...as long as they use where they end up as motivation for the future, it will be a learning experience, if nothing else. Because no selection process in hockey is going to be or seem to be fair.

I agree.

But then, the charade of a kid's performance that weekend determines the selection process, needs to end.

It's a money making weekend; call an ace, an ace.

[hockey59]

Bodangles...I had no horse in it this year, but I did in 2013-2015 and 2005-2007. My boys played in D10 and for the S4 & later S5 teams, respectively. The scores you recite at the Spring Festival for 16's this year and who advanced to 54 does appear dubious, no doubt. But you also know as well as I do that to make 54 cut, you either have a have something about your game that really stands out...or you better have some political connections based on where U play, because kids from Cambridge, Champlim Park, Spring Lake Park Robbinsdale Armstrong or Anoka...to name a few...don't advance to 54ers or National Festival as bubble kids...EVER. Just like these same kids usually don't make their Section or District team as bubble kids...just look at the distribution of who made the S5 17 team this year...and that will be attested clearly. But...the best player on the S5 17 team...still made National Festival, because he has a skill set that is unique. But if you want complete fairness combined with hockey evaluations...good luck, it doesn't exist.

[MrBoDangles]

Bodangles...I had no horse in it this year, but I did in 2013-2015 and 2005-2007. My boys played in D10 and for the S4 & later S5 teams, respectively. The scores you recite at the Spring Festival for 16's this year and who advanced to 54 does appear dubious, no doubt. But you also know as well as I do that to make 54 cut, you either have a have something about your game that really stands out...or you better have some political connections based on where U play, because kids from Cambridge, Champlim Park, Spring Lake Park Robbinsdale Armstrong or Anoka...to name a few...don't advance to 54ers or National Festival as bubble kids...EVER. Just like these same kids usually don't make their Section or District team as bubble kids...just look at the distribution of who made the S5 17 team this year...and that will be attested clearly. But...the best player on the S5 17 team...still made National Festival, because he has a skill set that is unique. But if you want complete fairness combined with hockey evaluations...good luck, it doesn't exist.

Agree with most of it.. Some did have all the skills.... Just needed a different letter on their winter uni

[keepyourheadup]

I'm not sure there is a process in any other sport as openly scrutinized/questioned as the selects are. I'll be the first to admit that over time there have been some really odd selections made. IMO the 15's are the goofiest and the 17's likely done the best. Once saw a kid score 9 points in the scrimmage portion, score was 13-4, and not get picked. A couple of the kids selected never made their high school team! My experience was just one district so can't really speak about what happens elsewhere but I've also witnessed several kids never make a team and they are playing D1 today. Its just not that important. If a kid can play he'll be noticed sooner or later.

[scoreandscoreoften]

I'm not sure there is a process in any other sport as openly scrutinized/questioned as the selects are. I'll be the first to admit that over time there have been some really odd selections made. IMO the 15's are the goofiest and the 17's likely done the best. Once saw a kid score 9 points in the scrimmage portion, score was 13-4, and not get picked. A couple of the kids selected never made their high school team! My experience was just one district so can't really speak about what happens elsewhere but I've also witnessed several kids never make a team and they are playing D1 today. Its just not that important. If a kid can play he'll be noticed sooner or later.

I hear "it's just not that important" all the time and have to disagree. If it's not important to a kids development, then why have these programs. That's the whole purpose. To develop these kids. For the ones that are good enough and fortunate enough, they get top level competition, solid coaching, and excellent experience. All this is an advantage over someone who doesn't make these teams. Is it absolutely necessary to make these teams to go on to play D1, no but it sure as hell helps. It's going to help them even at the high school level. So, to say they're just not important, they'll get noticed sooner or later just isn't 100% accurate iMHO

[hockey59]

I'm not sure there is a process in any other sport as openly scrutinized/questioned as the selects are. I'll be the first to admit that over time there have been some really odd selections made. IMO the 15's are the goofiest and the 17's likely done the best. Once saw a kid score 9 points in the scrimmage portion, score was 13-4, and not get picked. A couple of the kids selected never made their high school team! My experience was just one district so can't really speak about what happens elsewhere but I've also witnessed several kids never make a team and they are playing D1 today. Its just not that important. If a kid can play he'll be noticed sooner or later.

I hear "it's just not that important" all the time and have to disagree. If it's not important to a kids development, then why have these programs. That's the whole purpose. To develop these kids. For the ones that are good enough and fortunate enough, they get top level competition, solid coaching, and excellent experience. All this is an advantage over someone who doesn't make these teams. Is it absolutely necessary to make these teams to go on to play D1, no but it sure as hell helps. It's going to help them even at the high school level. So, to say they're just not important, they'll get noticed sooner or later just isn't 100% accurate iMHO

As I stated in an earlier post, yes for certain kids (usually a kid who has skills that really stand out and/or are unique compared to his peers) this process can be very helpful in terms of putting them on the map with college coaches. It does matter. But at the same time, the key is to keep working hard to continue improving, no matter how far you go in this selection process. Having a chip on your shoulder and being determined to prove people wrong if you fall short in this process is a good attribute to have (for a player too!) But how good a hockey player is, and thus the selection process, will always involve a degree of subjectivity, and that's where the rub always will be with this process.

[GoldenBear]

My only comment is that Luc Snuggerud and Casey Middlestadt didn't make their DISTRICT team in the 15's. Should they have? I think so. Did it make it so they were doomed for the rest of their hockey career? No. GB

[scoreandscoreoften]

I'm not sure there is a process in any other sport as openly scrutinized/questioned as the selects are. I'll be the first to admit that over time there have been some really odd selections made. IMO the 15's are the goofiest and the 17's likely done the best. Once saw a kid score 9 points in the scrimmage portion, score was 13-4, and not get picked. A couple of the kids selected never made their high school team! My experience was just one district so can't really speak about what happens elsewhere but I've also witnessed several kids never make a team and they are playing D1 today. Its just not that important. If a kid can play he'll be noticed sooner or later.

I hear "it's just not that important" all the time and have to disagree. If it's not important to a kids development, then why have these programs. That's the whole purpose. To develop these kids. For the ones that are good enough and fortunate enough, they get top level competition, solid coaching, and excellent experience. All this is an advantage over someone who doesn't make these teams. Is it absolutely necessary to make these teams to go on to play D1, no but it sure as hell helps. It's going to help them even at the high school level. So, to say they're just not important, they'll get noticed sooner or later just isn't 100% accurate iMHO

As I stated in an earlier post, yes for certain kids (usually a kid who has skills that really stand out and/or are unique compared to his peers) this process can be very helpful in terms of putting them on the map with college coaches. It does matter. But at the same time, the key is to keep working hard to continue improving, no matter how far you go in this selection process. Having a chip on your shoulder and being determined to prove people wrong if you fall short in this process is a good attribute to have (for a player too!) But how good a hockey player is, and thus the selection process, will always involve a degree of subjectivity, and that's where the rub always will be with this process.

Oh, I agree, a kid should never throw in the towel and say "I'm never going to be any good" if he/she doesn't make one of these teams. Use it as an incentive, by all means. But I get kind of tired hearing, no big deal, doesn't really matter, doesn't mean a thing, etc. in all reality, it's a big shot in the arm for anyone who moves on.

[MrBoDangles]

This is really simple.

The goal is to separate the top tier from the second tier.

If a team with 9 kids from the top tier can't completely dominate a team with only 1 top tier player -the system failed.

Either the top tier is overvalued or the lower tier is undervalued.

Either way the evaluation was a failure, and has no credibility.

And I have no horse in the race.

Couldn't agree more!!

The team with 1, outshot the team with 9, 44 - 20...