Class A hockey

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backrinkrat
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Class A hockey

Post by backrinkrat » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:49 pm

Making the early prediction- Virginia blue devils, will be in the tournament in 2018-2019 seasons! Go blue!

kniven
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Re: Class A hockey

Post by kniven » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:50 pm

backrinkrat wrote:Making the early prediction- Virginia blue devils, will be in the tournament in 2018-2019 seasons! Go blue!
Awesome! I like those BlueDevils :)

rainier
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Re: Class A hockey

Post by rainier » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:05 am

backrinkrat wrote:Making the early prediction- Virginia blue devils, will be in the tournament in 2018-2019 seasons! Go blue!
You must be assuming that Hermantown moves up to AA starting in 17-18. I'd love to see an Iron Range team win 7A, but until the Hawks go to AA I don't think anyone has a realistic shot.

I watched a top 5, possibly top 3 A team Hibbing and a top 10 A team Greenway get trounced by Hermantown by a combined 17-0 in the 7A playoffs last year. While one of the range teams may have a great class come through once in a while, Hermantown stacks great classes on top of each other year after year, much like a top AA program would do.

The Virginia bantams were quite good last year, but they did lose to the Hermantown AA team 9-3, and I can guarantee the year ahead and year behind Blue Devil classes are not as good as Hermantown, so when these groups of kids come together at the varsity level, the Hawks will have assembled a team that could compete very well with top AA teams.

Not trying to be a downer, just trying to help you calibrate your expectations when it comes to facing Hermantown. Until the top kids on the range start open enrolling to one school, which is what happens at Hermantown, the chances of a range team going to state are extremely slim.
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

greenwayraider
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Post by greenwayraider » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:24 pm

As usual, ranier is right on the money with his analysis. Greenway will be competitive in Class A for the next three years, but the PeeWee age group of last year was really bad. So they will go through a rough couple of years. Virginia has experienced average teams the last few years and will be on the upswing as their bantam team matures (Greenway bantams beat Virginia to go to state last year). Things will not be looking too good for Hibbing after this year. Eveleth should be fielding better teams the next few years. The Falls is not even on the radar. Range hockey cannot compete with Hermantown, they are small schools with no open enrollment benefits. A bigger challenge than the small enrollment is the socio-economic makeup of the enrollment. Range schools are more like an "urban" school than a "suburban" school. Greenway has 60% free or reduced lunches. Not a pretty picture but a realistic one. Maybe there will be a second Miracle on Ice at some point.

kniven
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Post by kniven » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:02 pm

greenwayraider wrote:As usual, ranier is right on the money with his analysis. Greenway will be competitive in Class A for the next three years, but the PeeWee age group of last year was really bad. So they will go through a rough couple of years. Virginia has experienced average teams the last few years and will be on the upswing as their bantam team matures (Greenway bantams beat Virginia to go to state last year). Things will not be looking too good for Hibbing after this year. Eveleth should be fielding better teams the next few years. The Falls is not even on the radar. Range hockey cannot compete with Hermantown, they are small schools with no open enrollment benefits. A bigger challenge than the small enrollment is the socio-economic makeup of the enrollment. Range schools are more like an "urban" school than a "suburban" school. Greenway has 60% free or reduced lunches. Not a pretty picture but a realistic one. Maybe there will be a second Miracle on Ice at some point.
In my opinion, there is single A hockey, then Hermantown hockey, then on top you have double AA high school hockey.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:20 am

kniven wrote:
greenwayraider wrote:As usual, ranier is right on the money with his analysis. Greenway will be competitive in Class A for the next three years, but the PeeWee age group of last year was really bad. So they will go through a rough couple of years. Virginia has experienced average teams the last few years and will be on the upswing as their bantam team matures (Greenway bantams beat Virginia to go to state last year). Things will not be looking too good for Hibbing after this year. Eveleth should be fielding better teams the next few years. The Falls is not even on the radar. Range hockey cannot compete with Hermantown, they are small schools with no open enrollment benefits. A bigger challenge than the small enrollment is the socio-economic makeup of the enrollment. Range schools are more like an "urban" school than a "suburban" school. Greenway has 60% free or reduced lunches. Not a pretty picture but a realistic one. Maybe there will be a second Miracle on Ice at some point.
In my opinion, there is single A hockey, then Hermantown hockey, then on top you have double AA high school hockey.
In the MSHSL's opinion, there is only A and AA.
The U invented swagger.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:47 am

I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:57 am

Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
St. Thomas Syndrome.
The U invented swagger.

kniven
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Post by kniven » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
I would not mind whatsoever the Hawks stay in A for the playoffs. It's kinda fun living and driving through the most dominant hockey program ever in A hockey. Hermantown is making history.

GP4Lhockey
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Post by GP4Lhockey » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:19 pm

kniven wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
I would not mind whatsoever the Hawks stay in A for the playoffs. It's kinda fun living and driving through the most dominant hockey program ever in A hockey. Hermantown is making history.
It would be nice to live through Hermantown and cheer for them if they were truly a homegrown program that just pumps out hockey players and was a small town dominant team. But the number of players that they recruit makes it so that I can't support them. They would still be a great A program if they didn't have the recruits.

kniven
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Post by kniven » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:34 pm

GP4Lhockey wrote:
kniven wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
I would not mind whatsoever the Hawks stay in A for the playoffs. It's kinda fun living and driving through the most dominant hockey program ever in A hockey. Hermantown is making history.
It would be nice to live through Hermantown and cheer for them if they were truly a homegrown program that just pumps out hockey players and was a small town dominant team. But the number of players that they recruit makes it so that I can't support them. They would still be a great A program if they didn't have the recruits.
Think about it. All the traditional powers in the state recruit. Both public and privates. It's just the way it is. I'm not going to complain though. It's never going to change. I'll just cheer my team and know we will do our best every year!!

GP4Lhockey
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Post by GP4Lhockey » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:12 pm

kniven wrote:
GP4Lhockey wrote:
kniven wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
I would not mind whatsoever the Hawks stay in A for the playoffs. It's kinda fun living and driving through the most dominant hockey program ever in A hockey. Hermantown is making history.
It would be nice to live through Hermantown and cheer for them if they were truly a homegrown program that just pumps out hockey players and was a small town dominant team. But the number of players that they recruit makes it so that I can't support them. They would still be a great A program if they didn't have the recruits.
Think about it. All the traditional powers in the state recruit. Both public and privates. It's just the way it is. I'm not going to complain though. It's never going to change. I'll just cheer my team and know we will do our best every year!!
I get it recruiting is alive and well in high school sports. But class A doesn't really have a place for it at the level that Hermantown does. I get moving for jobs and other family matters but to transfer simply because of athletics annoys me. I was a player who grew up hearing from everybody that I should transfer to this other school because the school I would attend wasn't very good and they were better but I stuck with my guys and we ended up going to a state tournament. Twice.. It should be about playing for your hometown and the guys you've grown up playin with. Not trying to chase down a championship like you're Lebron James. Have some pride kids

backrinkrat
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Post by backrinkrat » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:43 pm

Watch for the 17-18 season!

Mite-dad
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Post by Mite-dad » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:24 am

backrinkrat wrote:Watch for the 17-18 season!
That would be great for Virginia! Overcome an early loss to Little Falls and then run the table and make the state tourney. :wink:

Section 8 guy
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Post by Section 8 guy » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:44 pm

kniven wrote:Think about it. All the traditional powers in the state recruit. Both public and privates. It's just the way it is. I'm not going to complain though. It's never going to change. I'll just cheer my team and know we will do our best every year!!
Not true. They don't all recruit. Many do but there are some that don't.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:43 pm

Section 8 guy wrote:Not true. They don't all recruit. Many do but there are some that don't.
It seems like everyone defines the word "recruit" a little differently. And of course with many good players wanting to play for a winning team with a better chance to get more noticed (and possibly go to State) there can be a fine line between "recruit" and "attract".

kniven
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Post by kniven » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:11 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Section 8 guy wrote:Not true. They don't all recruit. Many do but there are some that don't.
It seems like everyone defines the word "recruit" a little differently. And of course with many good players wanting to play for a winning team with a better chance to get more noticed (and possibly go to State) there can be a fine line between "recruit" and "attract".
Agreed. A fine line....

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:58 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Section 8 guy wrote:Not true. They don't all recruit. Many do but there are some that don't.
It seems like everyone defines the word "recruit" a little differently. And of course with many good players wanting to play for a winning team with a better chance to get more noticed (and possibly go to State) there can be a fine line between "recruit" and "attract".
But........but..........one of this board's mantras is "If you're good enough they will find you", so moving to "get noticed" shouldn't be a concern ? :wink:


p.s. Fwiw, I think that saying is obsolete in today's world.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:55 pm

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:But........but..........one of this board's mantras is "If you're good enough they will find you", so moving to "get noticed" shouldn't be a concern ? :wink:


p.s. Fwiw, I think that saying is obsolete in today's world.
Another sometimes overlooked benefit of moving - for the elite player anyway - is the better/more equal talent level they play with at practice everyday. It's also likely that the better team plays a tougher schedule, so they are challenged more in games also. So even if they don't necessarily get more "noticed" there can be a greater opportunity to improve. Of course if moving ends up in the player not skating regular shifts and never being on the power play then it will obviously do more harm than good.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:29 pm

GP4Lhockey wrote:
kniven wrote:
GP4Lhockey wrote:
kniven wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:I don't think anyone should just assume that Hermantown will opt up to AA. They already play a AA schedule during the season and then get the automatic trip to State where they are the favorites to win every year. That is why so many of the top kids from other Associations open-enroll there. Without that automatic trip to state every year it might not be quite as attractive. They might be shooting themselves in the foot if they opted up to AA.
I would not mind whatsoever the Hawks stay in A for the playoffs. It's kinda fun living and driving through the most dominant hockey program ever in A hockey. Hermantown is making history.
It would be nice to live through Hermantown and cheer for them if they were truly a homegrown program that just pumps out hockey players and was a small town dominant team. But the number of players that they recruit makes it so that I can't support them. They would still be a great A program if they didn't have the recruits.
Think about it. All the traditional powers in the state recruit. Both public and privates. It's just the way it is. I'm not going to complain though. It's never going to change. I'll just cheer my team and know we will do our best every year!!
I get it recruiting is alive and well in high school sports. But class A doesn't really have a place for it at the level that Hermantown does. I get moving for jobs and other family matters but to transfer simply because of athletics annoys me. I was a player who grew up hearing from everybody that I should transfer to this other school because the school I would attend wasn't very good and they were better but I stuck with my guys and we ended up going to a state tournament. Twice.. It should be about playing for your hometown and the guys you've grown up playin with. Not trying to chase down a championship like you're Lebron James. Have some pride kids
I agree. I think we all accept it at the AA level. Every top program is going to get new top players from other Associations. But it should not happen in Class A. The smaller schools are struggling enough that they shouldn't have to compete with a team from a huge population base that any player can open-enroll too.

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:10 am

MNHockeyFan wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:But........but..........one of this board's mantras is "If you're good enough they will find you", so moving to "get noticed" shouldn't be a concern ? :wink:


p.s. Fwiw, I think that saying is obsolete in today's world.
Another sometimes overlooked benefit of moving - for the elite player anyway - is the better/more equal talent level they play with at practice everyday. It's also likely that the better team plays a tougher schedule, so they are challenged more in games also. So even if they don't necessarily get more "noticed" there can be a greater opportunity to improve. Of course if moving ends up in the player not skating regular shifts and never being on the power play then it will obviously do more harm than good.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of kids could care less where they play.

The parents on the other hand......... :wink:

TTpuckster
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Post by TTpuckster » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:53 pm

Well, just a couple of years back, EGF took care of Hermytown when it counted, with no recruiting :D
What is a Green Wave anyway?

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:23 am

TTpuckster wrote:Well, just a couple of years back, EGF took care of Hermytown when it counted, with no recruiting :D
Yes they did. They had a once every 10 years group come through and took care of business. Every one of those kids was from East Grand Forks so every fan in the State was cheering for them. Now they have to wait for the next great group. Hermantown gets to skip that process.

pekyman
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Post by pekyman » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:43 pm

You jokers that are accusing Hermantown of recruiting don't have a clue what you are talking about. If Hermantown is guilty of anything it’s developing a first class hockey program that attracts people to the community.
As far as EGF goes, Hermantown played competitive with that group from Squirts on up. Anybody that knows anything about youth hockey knew EGF was going to be tough those 2 years and they were.
Nobody knew that better than Hermantown. The same Hermantown boys that played EGF in Squirts, Peewee and Bantam played them again at State.
There was 1 newer kid at the Bantam level who moved into HT as a Bantam, everybody else on the Hermantown teams that played EGF was on the team from mites.
The team that lost to STA in 2011 was basically Hermantown’s Squirt A team in 2005. If that does not qualify as buddies playing for their hometown I don’t know what does to you tools.
As far as open enrollment I hear that the new school is no bigger and open enrollment is virtually closed for all grades. If you want to play for Hermantown, buy a house and move in as that’s the only way you will get a shot at the team.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:41 pm

I think you forgot about Parker Hawk, Dylan Samberg, Logan Judnick and Eric Gotz. They did not play Mites at Hermantown.

The climate has changed a lot since my kids played even. It's light years from 2005. Last year's Hermantown Squirt A team had kids from all over. Six different Associations according to my co-worker who had a kid on the team. Head coach from that team lives in Duluth. Assistant is from Proctor.

This aint your Father's Youth Hockey anymore. It's the reality, but would be nice if it was confined to AA. That's all anyone on here is saying.

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