Edina 2017 Roster and early departures

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Rich Clarke
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Edina 2017 Roster and early departures

Post by Rich Clarke » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:36 pm

The Edina roster is on the MSHSL activity page, and while the departures of Phillips and Copeland were reported in earlier posts, I was surprised to see several other veteran players no longer with the team. They are:

Jack Stedman (jr)
Nolan Anderson (sr)
Clavin Pugh (sr)
Peter Tabor (jr)
Joe Hankinson (jr)
Ben Copeland (sr)
Ben Anderson (sr)
Clayton Phillips (jr)
Steve Doll (jr)

Does anyone know the story on any of them, Phillips and Copeland aside? I may have missed earlier posts but this is a ton to simply not return. many of these could be on JV or simply cut to make room for younger players, but Tabor and Pugh are quite surprising. Any insight would be appreciated.

Rich Clarke
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Post by Rich Clarke » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:52 pm

In fact, I would have expected to see Bishop and Luther on the Edina varsity as well. Anyone know their story?

jg2112
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Re: Edina 2017 Roster and early departures

Post by jg2112 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:57 pm

Rich Clarke wrote:The Edina roster is on the MSHSL activity page, and while the departures of Phillips and Copeland were reported in earlier posts, I was surprised to see several other veteran players no longer with the team. They are:

Jack Stedman (jr)
Nolan Anderson (sr)
Clavin Pugh (sr)
Peter Tabor (jr)
Joe Hankinson (jr)
Ben Copeland (sr)
Ben Anderson (sr)
Clayton Phillips (jr)
Steve Doll (jr)

Does anyone know the story on any of them, Phillips and Copeland aside? I may have missed earlier posts but this is a ton to simply not return. many of these could be on JV or simply cut to make room for younger players, but Tabor and Pugh are quite surprising. Any insight would be appreciated.
Aren't Tabor and Hankinson over at Holy Family?

Nuts&Bolts
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Post by Nuts&Bolts » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:13 pm

Anybody check the LN roster. Free Stats.

BP
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Post by BP » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:02 pm

Copeland is with Waterloo, Phillips is with Fargo. Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family. Luther is playing for River Falls Renegades.

Not sure on the rest. The Jr's may be on JV. The Sr's may have gotten cut all together.

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:13 pm

Hankinson left Edina, what is happening to the hockey world?

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:13 am

mulefarm wrote:Hankinson left Edina, what is happening to the hockey world?
Giles

TheMayor
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Re: Edina 2017 Roster and early departures

Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:18 am

Rich Clarke wrote:The Edina roster is on the MSHSL activity page, and while the departures of Phillips and Copeland were reported in earlier posts, I was surprised to see several other veteran players no longer with the team. They are:

Jack Stedman (jr) - Junior Gold
Nolan Anderson (sr) - Junior Gold
Clavin Pugh (sr) - Moved to NC
Peter Tabor (jr) - Holy Family
Joe Hankinson (jr) - Holy Family
Ben Copeland (sr) - Waterloo
Ben Anderson (sr) - Junior Gold
Clayton Phillips (jr) - Fargo
Steve Doll (jr) - JV

Does anyone know the story on any of them, Phillips and Copeland aside? I may have missed earlier posts but this is a ton to simply not return. many of these could be on JV or simply cut to make room for younger players, but Tabor and Pugh are quite surprising. Any insight would be appreciated.
JGA will be strong again this year.

observer
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Post by observer » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:02 am

Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.

MWS coach
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Post by MWS coach » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:22 am

observer wrote:
Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.
I was wondering how they could transfer from Public to Private after 9th grade. I get the other direction as can always claim financial hardship, but is there some loop hole that would allow these kids to transfer as Jr's and still play varsity?

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:42 am

MWS coach wrote:
observer wrote:
Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.
I was wondering how they could transfer from Public to Private after 9th grade. I get the other direction as can always claim financial hardship, but is there some loop hole that would allow these kids to transfer as Jr's and still play varsity?
They moved.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:44 am

MWS coach wrote:
observer wrote:
Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.
I was wondering how they could transfer from Public to Private after 9th grade. I get the other direction as can always claim financial hardship, but is there some loop hole that would allow these kids to transfer as Jr's and still play varsity?
The family just has to change residence and they're eligible. They can move 50 miles or across the street, as long as they move.

Usthockey13
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Post by Usthockey13 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:52 am

MWS coach wrote:
observer wrote:
Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.
I was wondering how they could transfer from Public to Private after 9th grade. I get the other direction as can always claim financial hardship, but is there some loop hole that would allow these kids to transfer as Jr's and still play varsity?
i believe since HF doesnt have set school boundaries like public schools do that is the "loophole" for transferring and not sitting out

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 am

Usthockey13 wrote:
MWS coach wrote:
observer wrote:
Tabor and Hankinson transferred to Holy Family.
Sounds like Holy Family will be facing some forfeitures.
I was wondering how they could transfer from Public to Private after 9th grade. I get the other direction as can always claim financial hardship, but is there some loop hole that would allow these kids to transfer as Jr's and still play varsity?
i believe since HF doesnt have set school boundaries like public schools do that is the "loophole" for transferring and not sitting out
They don't have "set" school boundaries, but you do have to change residence (or come up with some other reason) in order to transfer.

PuckDaddy
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Post by PuckDaddy » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:04 am

Surprising to not see Luther on the squad. Thought he would make it.

On the transfer rule - if one is going to a private school do they need to provide financial hardship proof even if transferring to any public school?

BP
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Post by BP » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:19 am

On the transfer rule from public to private - they have to move school districts. It can be any school district, but they can't move across the street. So, using this example, Tabor and Hankinson would have to move out of Edina to any other school district in the state and they are eligible.

BP
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Post by BP » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:20 am

PuckDaddy wrote:Surprising to not see Luther on the squad. Thought he would make it.

On the transfer rule - if one is going to a private school do they need to provide financial hardship proof even if transferring to any public school?
Luther didn't try-out. He left to play for River Falls Renegades. Might have seen writing on the wall.

Crusty
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Post by Crusty » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:15 pm

Stedman, and both Ben & Nolan Anderson are trying out for JRG

green4
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Post by green4 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:26 pm

I believe Giles picks his players carefully and there are specific reasons why each kid who ends up getting cut or transferring does so. Thinking he is to blame for these roster moves is silly. But this post seems hasty if you break it down by each player.

Phillips and Copeland are higher caliber players and many of them leave early now.

Stedman is not a junior this year but a senior, and last year he was the 5th/6th D with Pugh and that was before Brinkman came back, once Brinkman came back Stedman became the 6th/7th D. If you watched Edina last year, D depth was a concern so those lower end guys didn't play much. Maybe it is unfair for a 9th grader like brinkman to take upperclassmen spots, but thats a different dicussion all together. In the end, as a senior, I am not surprised Stedman is on Junior Gold.

Pugh moved to NC according to one of these posts, but he is the same case as Stedman

Nolan Anderson played 3 games and has spent the other 47 games of his 2 year veteran career as a JV player, so is that really a shock?

Doll is a junior this year, not last year as indicated, he will have the chance to move up to varsity if he plays well on JV. He had one point last year in 22 games according to the Hub, so JV does not seem like a bad place for him.

Ben Anderson played two years of JV, the Hub doesn't have him playing any varsity games, so I don't think that should come as a surprise for JGA.

I can guess why Hankinson left Edina, I think if you are around the rink enough this shoudn't come as too big of a surprise.

Tabor is probably the big loss, I don't know why he left, but he was the odd one out last year in the playoffs as the 5th D behind Phillips, Brinkman, Johnson and Mickleson so he didn't get to play much down the stretch. Perhaps he was in the dog house a bit with Giles, perhaps all the offseason training at Velocity-Braemar got him interested to play for a guy like Rahn, I'm honestly not sure.

If you take out Phillips and Copeland than the guys who transferred or were cut were not the most dynamic players, it isn't like Giles sent Brinkman to JV or cut Scheerer. If you look at the guys who are gone and their point totals from last year it looks like this:

Tabor 1G 7A 8Points
Doll (Not actually gone just on JV) 0G 1A 1P in 22 games
Pugh 0G 1A 1P in 17 games
Joe Hankinson 0G 0A 0P
Stedman 0G 0A 0P
Nolan Anderson 0G 0A 0P in 3 games
Ben Anderson 0 games played

So why is this a big deal? We have two talented kids leaving early, which we all know happens a decent amount lately, especially at Edina. After that we have two kids transferring, one who is good, one who would be a solid player, but definitely replaceable and then 5 guys who are fine players, but at a competitive hockey school like Edina, probably didn't do enough to make the team.

In the end you take out Phillips and Copeland, we are talking about 7 kids who combined only for 10 points last season.

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:43 pm

green4 wrote:I believe Giles picks his players carefully and there are specific reasons why each kid who ends up getting cut or transferring does so. Thinking he is to blame for these roster moves is silly. But this post seems hasty if you break it down by each player.
While I think most of your assessment is correct, I'll differ a bit on the above. There was much grumbling around last year's team, so the answers may not be so simple as to why kids left. Langevin may have been at the core of the issues, who knows. I do know that at the end of last year there were some tweets which reflected negatively toward the coaching staff. Sour grapes? Maybe. As to whether Giles picks his players carefully, I'm not so convinced. The first 12 are pretty easy, but after that, I've seen guys get passed up that could have definitely helped the varsity. If you watch the tryout lists. the team is usually picked after the first night.

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:48 pm

green4 wrote: So why is this a big deal?
Missed this one. I didn't see where anyone said it was a bid deal. The OP was just curious as to why they didn't make it or where they went.

green4
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Post by green4 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:13 pm

TheMayor wrote:
green4 wrote:I believe Giles picks his players carefully and there are specific reasons why each kid who ends up getting cut or transferring does so. Thinking he is to blame for these roster moves is silly. But this post seems hasty if you break it down by each player.
While I think most of your assessment is correct, I'll differ a bit on the above. There was much grumbling around last year's team, so the answers may not be so simple as to why kids left. Langevin may have been at the core of the issues, who knows. I do know that at the end of last year there were some tweets which reflected negatively toward the coaching staff. Sour grapes? Maybe. As to whether Giles picks his players carefully, I'm not so convinced. The first 12 are pretty easy, but after that, I've seen guys get passed up that could have definitely helped the varsity. If you watch the tryout lists. the team is usually picked after the first night.
I think the reason for the frustrations were because the team wasn't that good, nor very deep. It was a spot Giles hasn't been in since what? 2006? Maybe that is a bit exaggerate, but he has been fortunate with the skill on his teams. This last year he probably sat too many kids and shortened the bench while searching for ways to beat better teams, which I understand people's frustrations there.

The part i bolded in your quote I think is exactly my point. Giles passes up on players who have the skill to help out varsity for various reasons, from superiority complex, loose cannon, typically something with attitude. It is the Herb Brook's line to a T, I am not looking for the best players, I want the right ones.
My senior year was 2013 when Edina won state. If you go back through interviews Curt talks about how close of a team that was, how they were all really good friends. Well, my friend had played JV along with a number of other seniors who ended up on that varsity team. My friend was no doubt better than the kids who he had played JV with. He probably could have been the 6th or 7th forward on a very deep team. But, he was a bit of an outsider compared to those kids, he wasn't as good of friends, which I believe played into it. He had the skill to be on the 2nd line, but if he didn't mesh with those kids then you either have to jumble the lines and mess up chemistry or send him to the 3rd or 4th line, which would have required a much different game from him if you remember how that team played their lower lines. And finally, he had an issue with listening to people in authority positions, the coaches knew it when he was on JV, he would just shut down if things weren't going his way. These all played a part I would guess in why he didn't make the team even though he was better than all the seniors on the bottom two lines.

From my experience with Curt, he probably won't cut a stand out, amazing player who has attitude problems, but he isn't afraid to drive a pretty good player away if he is becoming a problem.

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:20 pm

green4 wrote: Giles passes up on players who have the skill to help out varsity for various reasons, from superiority complex, loose cannon, typically something with attitude.
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've witnessed a number of his cuts over the last few years that caused me to scratch my head. Two years ago, when they lost to Duluth in the semis, he had guys on the bench that he wouldn't even put on the ice, when he desperately needed some calming leadership. I'll argue that a number of seniors he cut were in no way attitude issues. In fact, they were great kids. Last year too. He was stuck with a defensemen he'd inexplicably taken as a 9th grader, when their were better options on the cut list. We'll never know, but I don't like the generalization that the bubble kids he cuts are attitude problems.

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:54 pm

I wonder if the overall team harmony and dynamics might be pretty good with the remaining cast this year. Maybe even better than last year...

Sometimes that alone can get you a few extra wins

Rich Clarke
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Post by Rich Clarke » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:36 pm

Thanks for all the info, as I live in California much of the winter having hit retirement age.

Green4, I like your analysis and hadn't missed the fact that Tabor was the only real star, although Pugh started as a freshman and Hankinson as a sophomore. Maybe they wouldn't have been productive but my question isn't so much whether the losses are fatal to Edina but whether they came from people fleeing the program vs. having Giles chose better players.

As an Edina fan since the 1960s, I am VERY CONCERNED at the losses. This team was already well beneath the talent of 2014 and before, and losing two blue chip players like Phillips and Copeland is crippling. They may have still overachieved, but losing Tabor and Luther (and Bishop?) not only hurts this year but the next two. Edina nearly survived the loss of Bellows and Zuhlsdorff in 2014, but losing Wait as well pretty much made Edina just another good team in 2015. Losses happen but you can only lose so much.

As for your questions about whether it's a shock that some players are on JV. No. Not a shock. But I didn't know the JV roster and was asking what happened to them. If Giles has better players to bring up that's great.

However, look at the forwards he brought up. Swanson played one year of bantam AA and played jv last year. Borst never played AA and was on jv. Frenkel, Never, and Malmquist all played bantam AA last year but A the year before. I watched them a couple games last year and was impressed, and maybe they are blooming late. But overall, these look like five players that may or may not produce a productive first line player by senior year.

Also, I'm not at all hostile to Giles. He brought Edina three titles this decade when they may have been the best team once until the state tournament (and that year, 2014, they lost 6-1 to HM midseason). But I am interested in whether people are getting cut vs. choosing to leave the program. It sounds like some fringe players are on JV, but the rest left the program. Some of those may have had too much talent to choose high school and others may have had great talent but bad attitudes. Who knows. But my concern, which is for Edina's high school team this year, is the sheer number of people leaving.

It's amazing that with so many people leaving Edina can still field a team with Brickman, Walker, Crosby and others. But with Edina's losses, I think Edina will struggle greatly this year and Karl's no. 9 ranking may very high.

I hope not. After a similar loss of players in 2000 a group of no names made it to the state semis based on hard work and great chemistry. But the main point of my initial post wasn't to make any point but fill in gaps in my knowledge. As for the season, I am pessimistic that Edina will be in Karl's top ten at the end of this year and perhaps the next two until it's top players stay with the team the way they did to a great extent from 2007-14. But If I'm wrong no one will be happier than me.

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