Edina 2017 Roster and early departures

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GoldenBear
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:38 am

Post by GoldenBear » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:42 pm

Greeny. Thanks for the candid thoughts. Being a high school coach in a big association when kids leave early for greener pastures is tough. I agree team chemistry is a deal breaker for some of these kids... sad but true. I'm a big believer in senior leadership. Keep a senior over a underclassmate if chemistry is good. Wayzata last year three seniors were kept that could have been cut. Those kids contributed big time down the stretch. Just saw wayzata captains are all seniors. Well done Pat! A couple of senior cuts on the bubble for Wayzata. Tough call unless you have seen them for two years summer and in season hard for anyone to judge the decision. Trust the coaches fair or unfair. GB

TheMayor
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:35 am

Post by TheMayor » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:39 am

Rich Clarke wrote:In fact, I would have expected to see Bishop and Luther on the Edina varsity as well. Anyone know their story?
Luther on JGA.

PuckDaddy
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:05 am

Post by PuckDaddy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:47 pm

Think Connor Luther is playing JR for River Falls Renegades.

I agree that team chemistry is key to keeping an even keel and making a run.

Looks like an old Edina retread showed up and "won" a spot on EP varsity. Dietrich didn't he play Edina bantam AA and the. Bolt to greener pastures at Blake??

Rich Clarke
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:40 am

Wrong Luther

Post by Rich Clarke » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:07 pm

The Luther at issue was B. Luther, who was a two-year bantam AA and would be a sophomore this year. He and D. Bishop were Edina's only two-year AA bantams at forward last year (Vorlicky, who is on the varsity was also two-year AA but is defense). Conner Luther is 18 currently and a different player.

I am curious if Bishop and Luther, two large two-year bantams who I had predicted would make varsity, left the program or are simply on JV. When I saw them neither looked like they'd necessarily make am impact as sophomores but I still think Edina's roster isn't deep enough that Giles would have left them on JV.

I guess we'll know in a couple days at the Turkey Trot. I was just wondering if anyone close to the team knows the story on these two. Thanks to those for the info provided.

Lazy Scout
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Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 am

Post by Lazy Scout » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Rich Clarke
For someone who doesn't seem to know a thing on Bishop and Luther, you seem to know a heck of a lot on all the other Edina players and where they played Bantams (A or AA) two years ago and where they are now!! Giles doesn't care if you made AA as a first year or not. I wouldn't question what Giles is doing. He obviously didn't see either of these two as impact player to make Varsity. To be honest, never heard of Bishop and Luther.

Lazy Scout
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Post by Lazy Scout » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:41 pm

According to MSHSL both are on JV......problem solved.

TheMayor
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Post by TheMayor » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:09 am

Lazy Scout wrote:Rich Clarke
For someone who doesn't seem to know a thing on Bishop and Luther, you seem to know a heck of a lot on all the other Edina players and where they played Bantams (A or AA) two years ago and where they are now!! Giles doesn't care if you made AA as a first year or not. I wouldn't question what Giles is doing. He obviously didn't see either of these two as impact player to make Varsity. To be honest, never heard of Bishop and Luther.
Why the hostility? I love those that say no one should ever question what Giles does, as though he is some sort of god. You need only look at the semi two years ago vs. DE. He had a full day + to formulate a plan for replacing Malmquist, and got out-coached and beaten by a vastly inferior team. EVERYONE can be questioned - including Giles.

redtundra
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Post by redtundra » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:27 am

TheMayor wrote:
Lazy Scout wrote:Rich Clarke
For someone who doesn't seem to know a thing on Bishop and Luther, you seem to know a heck of a lot on all the other Edina players and where they played Bantams (A or AA) two years ago and where they are now!! Giles doesn't care if you made AA as a first year or not. I wouldn't question what Giles is doing. He obviously didn't see either of these two as impact player to make Varsity. To be honest, never heard of Bishop and Luther.
Why the hostility? I love those that say no one should ever question what Giles does, as though he is some sort of god. You need only look at the semi two years ago vs. DE. He had a full day + to formulate a plan for replacing Malmquist, and got out-coached and beaten by a vastly inferior team. EVERYONE can be questioned - including Giles.
Agreed. How you lose with Anders Lee and a VERY good supporting cast (Budish, Everson, etc.) is still hard to imagine. They actually started to win when Langevin showed up I believe. Is that right Green?

Rich Clarke
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Lazy

Post by Rich Clarke » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:34 am

Had you read my posts you will see that I was simply seeking information--not criticizing Giles. The issue for me was whether they were in and out of the program, not whether they should have made varsity or not. I was wondering whether they chose to leave the program early like others did. That's all. And while two years of AA (vs. 1 or none) is certainly not determinative, it is evidence of where the most recent coaches saw players as of the last two years. It's therefore a good place the START for a fan who has limited information. And you're right. I do know a lot that others may not spend time paying attention to, but I also have no knowledge at all on other things, so I come to the board and ask fellow fans for information I don't have. I'm glad you found the JV information on the MSHSL website and had the courtesy to provide it.

Lazy Scout
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 am

Post by Lazy Scout » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:20 am

I'm not hostile at all. I have no horse in the Edina race or Giles for that matter. People will always question a high school coaches pick. Only they know the method to their madness. I did read your posts with the understanding that you were concerned on Giles picks because you did not see two players that were two time Bantam AA players and some players made the roster that were only one time AA player. Because you make AA as a first year does not entitle a player to make varsity as a sophmore, especially in Edina. All these players skate with Giles all summer so I am pretty sure he got a very good look at them. Giles has never been afraid to move players up and down from varsity to jv so these two players will have ample time to prove themselves.
Because you have all the talent in the world does not necessarily mean you are going to win every time. Even the best coaches lose games. That's why we play the game....anything can happen from prep to pro.

green4
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Location: Edina

Post by green4 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:12 pm

redtundra wrote:
TheMayor wrote:
Lazy Scout wrote:Rich Clarke
For someone who doesn't seem to know a thing on Bishop and Luther, you seem to know a heck of a lot on all the other Edina players and where they played Bantams (A or AA) two years ago and where they are now!! Giles doesn't care if you made AA as a first year or not. I wouldn't question what Giles is doing. He obviously didn't see either of these two as impact player to make Varsity. To be honest, never heard of Bishop and Luther.
Why the hostility? I love those that say no one should ever question what Giles does, as though he is some sort of god. You need only look at the semi two years ago vs. DE. He had a full day + to formulate a plan for replacing Malmquist, and got out-coached and beaten by a vastly inferior team. EVERYONE can be questioned - including Giles.
Agreed. How you lose with Anders Lee and a VERY good supporting cast (Budish, Everson, etc.) is still hard to imagine. They actually started to win when Langevin showed up I believe. Is that right Green?
I am assuming this is directed at me, its hard to tell sometimes, but I'll respond anyway because I do enjoy talking about Edina hockey.

To set it straight, Lee has had the most success after high school on those teams, but at the time it was not Lee and supporting cast, Budish was the guy most sought after. Lee was 3rd (54points) in scoring his junior year behind Everson (68) and Budish (63). Lee was probably the most complete player, but Budish was pretty complete, plus he than had a lot of size. But I was young at that point so my hockey knowledge is accredited mostly to what I heard.

There was only one year where Lee actually played with Budish and Everson in high school. Lee was at STA when they were sophomores and Budish missed his senior season. So now we are looking at just one year, which the team made it all the way to the state championship. I was at that game, I was in 7th grade I believe. I still remember the goal from outside the blue line as the 1st period expired, I made fun of the goalie's sister who was my age for a few weeks after that. I remember big Dan Sova roughing up big Zach Budish in front of the net, knocking him to ice after the whistle and standing over him, for a big guy Budish was a bit passive. I remember making excuses saying Joe Phillippi was a cheater because the Hornets coudn't score on him.
But in the end, that was just one game they lost against another good team. To me it's not that hard to believe how they lost that game with it being the one season Lee, Budish and Everson were together.

Sure, you probably meant how did they lose that game on top of getting outworked so bad against Grand Rapids in 2007 even though Lee was not on the team and how did they get upset by a no name group of kids from Moorhead in 2009, even if Budish was hurt, but if I am being technical, the one year they all played together in 2008, that one isn't a huge surprise, because they made it all the way to the championship and lost that one final game.
And if you think Giles made a mistake, and he is to blame for that game, that he relied too much on his stars like he did in the playoffs in 2015, that is fine, you can have that opinion, but then you do have to give him credit for his success in that one final game when Edina, fresh off losing all their stars, beat Minnetonka, a team full of D1 players to win a state championship. I think Giles made up for for his losses with 2010.

Also just one correction to TheMayor, Malmquist was planning on playing in that semi-final game. Sure, Giles should have prepared a scenario where he wound't be able to play, and maybe he did, and it was just that bad, but Malmquist did dress so I don't think he had a full day thinking about replacing him when he assumed he would be playing.
You are still right that he deserves to be questioned at times, that he was out-coached and beaten by a team they should have beat, but that happens once in a while.
It is easy to point out games a high school hockey coach lost when they should of won, but not so easy to point out the games they would have lost without them.

57special
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Post by 57special » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:36 am

Bishop was never all that great, just big. Very similar to Pugh, who used to be a foot taller than his peers and used to dominate that way. Then the other kids catch up,in size and strength.

Tabor had injuries, lots of them, that affected his play. There were other issues ( not his fault)that might have affected his ability to play for Edina.

Not sure, but was someone criticizing taking Brinkman last year? He might end up being the best player ever to come out of Edina.

Doll not making Varsity is the only big surprise to me. He's faster, stronger, and better than a few of the kids on the Varsity team. One kid, in particular, I scratch my head at. Good kid, but really?

BTW, I'm a Giles fan. I appreciate the way he takes a fresh look at the kids who come up through the youth ranks.

In the end, losing Copeland, Phillips, Lagerstrom, Tabor, Silianoff, Jensen is going to hurt what could have been a really strong team in the next year or two.

57special
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Post by 57special » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:45 am

green4 wrote:I believe Giles picks his players carefully and there are specific reasons why each kid who ends up getting cut or transferring does so. Thinking he is to blame for these roster moves is silly. But this post seems hasty if you break it down by each player.

Phillips and Copeland are higher caliber players and many of them leave early now.

Stedman is not a junior this year but a senior, and last year he was the 5th/6th D with Pugh and that was before Brinkman came back, once Brinkman came back Stedman became the 6th/7th D. If you watched Edina last year, D depth was a concern so those lower end guys didn't play much. Maybe it is unfair for a 9th grader like brinkman to take upperclassmen spots, but thats a different dicussion all together. In the end, as a senior, I am not surprised Stedman is on Junior Gold.

Pugh moved to NC according to one of these posts, but he is the same case as Stedman

Nolan Anderson played 3 games and has spent the other 47 games of his 2 year veteran career as a JV player, so is that really a shock?

Doll is a junior this year, not last year as indicated, he will have the chance to move up to varsity if he plays well on JV. He had one point last year in 22 games according to the Hub, so JV does not seem like a bad place for him.

Ben Anderson played two years of JV, the Hub doesn't have him playing any varsity games, so I don't think that should come as a surprise for JGA.

I can guess why Hankinson left Edina, I think if you are around the rink enough this shoudn't come as too big of a surprise.

Tabor is probably the big loss, I don't know why he left, but he was the odd one out last year in the playoffs as the 5th D behind Phillips, Brinkman, Johnson and Mickleson so he didn't get to play much down the stretch. Perhaps he was in the dog house a bit with Giles, perhaps all the offseason training at Velocity-Braemar got him interested to play for a guy like Rahn, I'm honestly not sure.

If you take out Phillips and Copeland than the guys who transferred or were cut were not the most dynamic players, it isn't like Giles sent Brinkman to JV or cut Scheerer. If you look at the guys who are gone and their point totals from last year it looks like this:

Tabor 1G 7A 8Points
Doll (Not actually gone just on JV) 0G 1A 1P in 22 games
Pugh 0G 1A 1P in 17 games
Joe Hankinson 0G 0A 0P
Stedman 0G 0A 0P
Nolan Anderson 0G 0A 0P in 3 games
Ben Anderson 0 games played

So why is this a big deal? We have two talented kids leaving early, which we all know happens a decent amount lately, especially at Edina. After that we have two kids transferring, one who is good, one who would be a solid player, but definitely replaceable and then 5 guys who are fine players, but at a competitive hockey school like Edina, probably didn't do enough to make the team.

In the end you take out Phillips and Copeland, we are talking about 7 kids who combined only for 10 points last season.
Right on, though there is a bit more to the Tabor story. Not his fault.
Some of the new kids are really small and weak, though. Doll is better than a lot of them, IMO, but he has a bad back which limited him last year. Don't know about this year. When healthy he can play.
I don't think this will be Edina's year, though Walker and Brinkman are capable of messing up someone else's party.

WarmUpTheBus
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Post by WarmUpTheBus » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:25 pm

Excuse me if this is something that has already been addressed, I haven't been following this thread. At the Turkey Trot I noticed Dave Langevin wasn't behind the bench or listed as an Edina coach on the roster sheet. Is he no longer with the program?

green4
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Location: Edina

Post by green4 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:58 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:Excuse me if this is something that has already been addressed, I haven't been following this thread. At the Turkey Trot I noticed Dave Langevin wasn't behind the bench or listed as an Edina coach on the roster sheet. Is he no longer with the program?
Yeah, he is gone. I am not in the loop enough anymore to know why, but I'm sure someone on here might be able to fill us in.

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