Hermantown to Stay Down in Class A

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wannagototherink
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Hermantown to Stay Down in Class A

Post by wannagototherink » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:36 pm

I apologize if this is already out there. I overheard a Hermantown School Board member today say they are going to stay at Class A the next two years. Bruce's retirement isn't going to bring change. Pretty sure this is not what the MSHSL intended by going to a 2 class system. I know they are playing within the rules but I wish the MSHSL would look at the impact it's having on Northern Minnesota Hockey.
"I've never seen a dumb-bell score a goal!" ~Gretter

Rocketwrister
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Post by Rocketwrister » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:44 pm

I heard this too a week or 2 ago. Not sure where Kniven got his info, but from what I had heard Hermantown is staying single A. Wouldn't surprise me if Marshall goes back to A too.

Slammer
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Post by Slammer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:04 pm

This is why I said to ignore the rumors.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:16 pm

Hermantown is a Disgrace to every actual small town program trying to build up with their own kids the right way. Pathetic if true.

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:Hermantown is a Disgrace to every actual small town program trying to build up with their own kids the right way. Pathetic if true.
?????????????????????👍

Goose21
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Post by Goose21 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:36 pm

I understand the reasons why Hermantown wants to stay A, but really feel it is time to test themselves in the deep end of the pool. They can always go back in a couple years if it doesn't work out.

Green and White Fan
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Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:48 pm

Maybe the High School League should say no to all opt ups and then the Class A field would be stronger.

Schotzy
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Post by Schotzy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:54 pm

The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.

Duluthguy
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Post by Duluthguy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:02 pm

Schotzy wrote:The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.
I have no inside info here, but I believe this reasoning makes sense. The next few years won't have the talent these last few have had. As Bruce said in the paper the other day, they probably should have moved up a couple of years ago. The timing now isn't right for them.

This will be a much more competitive section in the next 2-3 years.

As for Marshall moving back down: Again, no inside info, but I'd be shocked if they did. They would rather challenge themselves against the "big boys" than move back down and play predominately Class A schools....Just because they're not contending for a section title year in and year out in AA--at least not right now--they don't consider that a problem, like other schools might.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:02 pm

Schotzy wrote:The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.
Probably a good point. Their current Bantam group has fewer non-Hermantown kids than they've had in a long time. Probably not a coincidence it's their weakest group in years. Their PeeWees and Squirts are LOADED with kids from all over the place, with more coming every year.

Schotzy
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Post by Schotzy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:07 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Schotzy wrote:The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.
Probably a good point. Their current Bantam group has fewer non-Hermantown kids than they've had in a long time. Probably not a coincidence it's their weakest group in years. Their PeeWees and Squirts are LOADED with kids from all over the place, with more coming every year.
Not exactly the point I was making, but you do you.

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Post by MNpuckBlog » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:18 pm

The argument in years past has been that they don't always have the numbers or talent to compete at the AA level. Be that as it may, neither does Roseau or other schools who opt up to AA. There will be years where they can compete in AA, and years where they may be middle of the pack. Either way, 7 straight title games (8 if they go all the way this year) should be enough to know it's time. Regardless if they've only won one championship in that time. There should be more pride in being a great AA team some years and a decent AA other years, than blowing out opponents 18-1 in the first two section games. I used to really root for Hermantown a handful of years ago, but it's tough to root for them now. They likely could have won 7AA this year and been seeded at the tournament. The two-class system was put into place so teams like Greenway, who hadn't been to a section final since the Guyer and Sertich days (2001), would be able to compete for a spot in the tournament when they finally have a good group come through. Hermantown was a great story a few years back, but they've now become an annoyance at the tournament to most.

duluth dave
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Post by duluth dave » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:19 pm

nothing to do with Hermantown but I think Duluth Marshall belongs in A.

BodyShots
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Post by BodyShots » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:24 pm

AA teams just need to boycott playing them over the next two years. That will change their mind real quick.

DOWN WITH HERMANTOWN..... [-X =;

Goldyismoldy
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Post by Goldyismoldy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:35 pm

BodyShots wrote:AA teams just need to boycott playing them over the next two years. That will change their mind real quick.

DOWN WITH HERMANTOWN..... [-X =;
AA teams don't need Hermantown, Hermantown needs AA.

Boycott.

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:32 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:Hermantown is a Disgrace to every actual small town program trying to build up with their own kids the right way. Pathetic if true.
?????????????????????👍
After they win another Class a title in 9 days, if they subsequently choose to NOT opt up...they will be on the receiving end of an avalanche of criticism that will make the crap STA received for waiting so long...MILD BY COMPARISON. But they can do what they want...frankly I'm bored of this topic...

Goldyismoldy
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Post by Goldyismoldy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:20 pm

hockey59 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:Hermantown is a Disgrace to every actual small town program trying to build up with their own kids the right way. Pathetic if true.
?????????????????????👍
After they win another Class a title in 9 days, if they subsequently choose to NOT opt up...they will be on the receiving end of an avalanche of criticism that will make the crap STA received for waiting so long...MILD BY COMPARISON. But they can do what they want...frankly I'm bored of this topic...
Agreed. I said it in a different thread, but if Hermantown " Ain't got the seeds" move the thread to the girls forum.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:38 pm

Goldyismoldy wrote:Agreed. I said it in a different thread, but if Hermantown " Ain't got the seeds" move the thread to the girls forum.
And combine it with the anti-Blake sentiment there, thank you very much.

rainier
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Post by rainier » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:08 pm

MNpuckBlog wrote:The argument in years past has been that they don't always have the numbers or talent to compete at the AA level. Be that as it may, neither does Roseau or other schools who opt up to AA. There will be years where they can compete in AA, and years where they may be middle of the pack. Either way, 7 straight title games (8 if they go all the way this year) should be enough to know it's time. Regardless if they've only won one championship in that time. There should be more pride in being a great AA team some years and a decent AA other years, than blowing out opponents 18-1 in the first two section games. I used to really root for Hermantown a handful of years ago, but it's tough to root for them now. They likely could have won 7AA this year and been seeded at the tournament. The two-class system was put into place so teams like Greenway, who hadn't been to a section final since the Guyer and Sertich days (2001), would be able to compete for a spot in the tournament when they finally have a good group come through. Hermantown was a great story a few years back, but they've now become an annoyance at the tournament to most.
I agree with this 100%

As far as some posters saying that "Hermantown will be down the next few years", I think that needs to be put in perspective. Last year, Virginia had an excellent bantam team that was top ten in A and went to state; Hermantown beat them 9-3. This year, Greenway has the #1 bantam team in A; Hermantown has beaten them twice by a combined score of 12-6.

They are 3-0 vs GR, 1-1 vs DE, and 1-1 against ER. The only 7AA team clearly better than they are is Cloquet, who is 3-0 vs the Hawks. They beat Edina and are competitive in almost all the games they play against top teams.

This is what I find the most infuriating/frustrating. This idea that if Hermantown can't be guaranteed of being a top 3 team in AA, then it's okay if they stay in A. They totally blew it the last two years by not opting up with their teams that would absolutely have been top 3 in AA, and now they should reward this stupidity with two more years of beating up on very good A teams? Completely ridiculous.

Hermantown needs to opt up and face the fact that they might not be able to get by Cloquet for a couple years. The answer we get from Hermantown cheerleaders when we complain about their sandbagging is "You need to get better!" Why shouldn't this apply to Hermantown? You're clearly a AA program by now, and it you don't think you can compete with Cloquet and DE (which they obviously can), then you need to get better!

Hibbing, Greenway, Virginia, Denfeld, and Eveleth have either put out recently or are about to put out excellent top ten A teams, and to watch a wealthy suburban Duluth team filled with open-enrollment kids beat AA teams all season before steamrolling true community teams in the playoffs is sickening.

The idea of not going to state every year is just too much for the Hermantown coach and Hermantown faithful to bear. What a farce.

My fantasy is that all 7A teams will opt up to AA, leaving Hermantown all by themselves in 7A. No one in 7A has a chance of getting by them, so why not just all go to AA to make a statement?

:D
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:19 pm

On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:33 pm

rainier wrote:
MNpuckBlog wrote:The argument in years past has been that they don't always have the numbers or talent to compete at the AA level. Be that as it may, neither does Roseau or other schools who opt up to AA. There will be years where they can compete in AA, and years where they may be middle of the pack. Either way, 7 straight title games (8 if they go all the way this year) should be enough to know it's time. Regardless if they've only won one championship in that time. There should be more pride in being a great AA team some years and a decent AA other years, than blowing out opponents 18-1 in the first two section games. I used to really root for Hermantown a handful of years ago, but it's tough to root for them now. They likely could have won 7AA this year and been seeded at the tournament. The two-class system was put into place so teams like Greenway, who hadn't been to a section final since the Guyer and Sertich days (2001), would be able to compete for a spot in the tournament when they finally have a good group come through. Hermantown was a great story a few years back, but they've now become an annoyance at the tournament to most.
I agree with this 100%

As far as some posters saying that "Hermantown will be down the next few years", I think that needs to be put in perspective. Last year, Virginia had an excellent bantam team that was top ten in A and went to state; Hermantown beat them 9-3. This year, Greenway has the #1 bantam team in A; Hermantown has beaten them twice by a combined score of 12-6.

They are 3-0 vs GR, 1-1 vs DE, and 1-1 against ER. The only 7AA team clearly better than they are is Cloquet, who is 3-0 vs the Hawks. They beat Edina and are competitive in almost all the games they play against top teams.

This is what I find the most infuriating/frustrating. This idea that if Hermantown can't be guaranteed of being a top 3 team in AA, then it's okay if they stay in A. They totally blew it the last two years by not opting up with their teams that would absolutely have been top 3 in AA, and now they should reward this stupidity with two more years of beating up on very good A teams? Completely ridiculous.

Hermantown needs to opt up and face the fact that they might not be able to get by Cloquet for a couple years. The answer we get from Hermantown cheerleaders when we complain about their sandbagging is "You need to get better!" Why shouldn't this apply to Hermantown? You're clearly a AA program by now, and it you don't think you can compete with Cloquet and DE (which they obviously can), then you need to get better!

Hibbing, Greenway, Virginia, Denfeld, and Eveleth have either put out recently or are about to put out excellent top ten A teams, and to watch a wealthy suburban Duluth team filled with open-enrollment kids beat AA teams all season before steamrolling true community teams in the playoffs is sickening.

The idea of not going to state every year is just too much for the Hermantown coach and Hermantown faithful to bear. What a farce.

My fantasy is that all 7A teams will opt up to AA, leaving Hermantown all by themselves in 7A. No one in 7A has a chance of getting by them, so why not just all go to AA to make a statement?

:D
It defies reality. There is only one logical explanation that makes any sense. Their biggest recruiting pitch is, "We go to State every year." If that stops and they only go every 2 or 3 out of 5 years, I think they're worried that the pipeline dries up. And it's not just putting out great hockey teams that's at stake. For every kid that open enrolls or moves there, they receive over $9,000 from the State. That's a lot of money for their schools and Hockey is really all they have to offer. Almost every top player from the Twig/Pike Lake area has open enrolled there in the last ten years. It's a small, tight knit community and everyone knows everyone. I was with some people from Pike Lake a couple weeks ago and I asked them if there is any boy from Twig/Pike Lake who open enrolls to Hermantown who doesn't play Hockey. They all said there is none. Not even one. I'm guessing it's the same for the Duluth kids. Guaranteed State Tournament trips every year is what they have to offer. And they're not giving that up.

Joe2015
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Post by Joe2015 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:27 am

Time for the MSHSL to start making teams opt-up and not just in hockey. Have some sort of specific criteria (with the biggest factor being state championships in a certain amount of time) where dominant teams have to move up.

Not just a Hermantown thing: look at Blake in girls hockey or DeLaSalle in boys basketball. They are clearly out-classing their current competition even at the state tournament level and making those games not enjoyable to watch.

Immigrant Fan
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Post by Immigrant Fan » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:42 am

I'm not going to get into the H-town to AA bickering, but I will admit that I am likely skipping at least the quarterfinals of the A tournament this year, because it seems there is no realistic hope of anyone stopping H-town.

I used to cheer enthusiastically for H-town, but they've lost me. If I go to later rounds, I will pick someone else to be my team. If they opt up to AA in the future, I will gladly go back to supporting them at state.
Not born here...
...but, would hate to leave

north_bear
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Post by north_bear » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:53 am

rainier wrote:
MNpuckBlog wrote:The argument in years past has been that they don't always have the numbers or talent to compete at the AA level. Be that as it may, neither does Roseau or other schools who opt up to AA. There will be years where they can compete in AA, and years where they may be middle of the pack. Either way, 7 straight title games (8 if they go all the way this year) should be enough to know it's time. Regardless if they've only won one championship in that time. There should be more pride in being a great AA team some years and a decent AA other years, than blowing out opponents 18-1 in the first two section games. I used to really root for Hermantown a handful of years ago, but it's tough to root for them now. They likely could have won 7AA this year and been seeded at the tournament. The two-class system was put into place so teams like Greenway, who hadn't been to a section final since the Guyer and Sertich days (2001), would be able to compete for a spot in the tournament when they finally have a good group come through. Hermantown was a great story a few years back, but they've now become an annoyance at the tournament to most.
I agree with this 100%

As far as some posters saying that "Hermantown will be down the next few years", I think that needs to be put in perspective. Last year, Virginia had an excellent bantam team that was top ten in A and went to state; Hermantown beat them 9-3. This year, Greenway has the #1 bantam team in A; Hermantown has beaten them twice by a combined score of 12-6.

They are 3-0 vs GR, 1-1 vs DE, and 1-1 against ER. The only 7AA team clearly better than they are is Cloquet, who is 3-0 vs the Hawks. They beat Edina and are competitive in almost all the games they play against top teams.

This is what I find the most infuriating/frustrating. This idea that if Hermantown can't be guaranteed of being a top 3 team in AA, then it's okay if they stay in A. They totally blew it the last two years by not opting up with their teams that would absolutely have been top 3 in AA, and now they should reward this stupidity with two more years of beating up on very good A teams? Completely ridiculous.

Hermantown needs to opt up and face the fact that they might not be able to get by Cloquet for a couple years. The answer we get from Hermantown cheerleaders when we complain about their sandbagging is "You need to get better!" Why shouldn't this apply to Hermantown? You're clearly a AA program by now, and it you don't think you can compete with Cloquet and DE (which they obviously can), then you need to get better!

Hibbing, Greenway, Virginia, Denfeld, and Eveleth have either put out recently or are about to put out excellent top ten A teams, and to watch a wealthy suburban Duluth team filled with open-enrollment kids beat AA teams all season before steamrolling true community teams in the playoffs is sickening.

The idea of not going to state every year is just too much for the Hermantown coach and Hermantown faithful to bear. What a farce.

My fantasy is that all 7A teams will opt up to AA, leaving Hermantown all by themselves in 7A. No one in 7A has a chance of getting by them, so why not just all go to AA to make a statement?

:D
These guys nailed it 100% 👍👍
Thunderhawk Fanatic!!

Rocketwrister
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Post by Rocketwrister » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:42 am

karl(east) wrote:On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.
I don't believe so; Unless mshsl runs boys hockey different from girls hockey

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