Hermantown to Stay Down in Class A

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

MNHockeyFan
Posts: 6974
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:28 pm

Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:06 am

Jeffy95 wrote:Oops, forgot about Watkins. He came in from Denver, Colorado. I'm sure it was for the "Education" though, just like the kid they brought in from Alaska a few years ago. That Hermantown "Public Education" is pulling them in from all over the country!
I think it's only fair that Northern Minnesota have it's own version of a Shattuck-St. Mary's.

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:36 am

This whole "You need to get better" argument drives me nuts, for a couple reasons:

1. The mantra for every team and every kid in the state should be "Get better!".

2. The teams in 7A HAVE GOTTEN BETTER!!!!!!!!
-Denfeld had a top ten A team just two years ago
-Virginia has a group of sophomores that were top ten in bantam A last year, and they lost to a "down" Hermantown bantam AA team 9-3.
-Greenway was top ten in A this year at HS level, and they have the #1 BANTAM A TEAM IN THE STATE!!! Yet, they have lost to a "down" Hermantown bantam AA team twice by a combined score of 12-6.
-Eveleth just got their best seed in 7A in many years, and they have a top ten bantam A class coming in.
-Hibbing's senior class this year was TOP TEN IN AA (yes, AA) when they were bantams and they lost to Hermantown bantam AA 6-3 in the playoffs that year, they were TOP 5 in A last year in HS, and were TOP TEN in A this year. Also, if Perunovich and Ullan had stayed, Hibbing would likely have been the #2 TEAM IN A THIS SEASON! (I know the fact that they had little chance of beating Hermantown played into the decision of those kids leaving.)

7A is producing some of the very best teams in Class A. HOW MUCH BETTER ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GET?????!!!! These are true community teams, not wealthy suburbs of a 250,000 person metro area like Hermantown.

Also, why didn't Plante just say "We need to get better." when he was losing to STA and Breck?
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

Schotzy
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:36 am

Post by Schotzy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:42 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:I read a lot about all the recruits on the hawks varsity team, but all those players played on their peewee team.

So what is a recruit?.
Harder to find info, but I know several kids on the current youth teams in Hermantown that started out in Procotor, Duluth, and other surrounding communities. They don't have to transfer in as a freshman to be considered a transfer.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:38 am

Watkins father is a surgeon who moved here to take a job when his son was a PW or earlier if I recall...so what? Surely, it was just for our hockey and we heavily recruited him...unreal. Jeffy you get cut from Hermantown Jv back in 95? Talk it out man....oh wait. You do.

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:53 am

Hermhawkey wrote:Watkins father is a surgeon who moved here to take a job when his son was a PW or earlier if I recall...so what? Surely, it was just for our hockey and we heavily recruited him...unreal. Jeffy you get cut from Hermantown Jv back in 95? Talk it out man....oh wait. You do.
Would he have taken a job in Montana where there's hardly any hockey?

The Golden Ticket

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:59 am

I'm guessing you think Plante helped pay his father's education when Watty was an embroyo in Colorado. Paid dividends I would say. You agree Jeffy?

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:09 am

Hermhawkey wrote:I'm guessing you think Plante helped pay his father's education when Watty was an embroyo in Colorado. Paid dividends I would say. You agree Jeffy?
Are there more opportunities for surgeons in the Duluth metro area than in Coleraine?
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:11 am

Talent is surely identified by PW

Or was he a C player that Hermantown turned into a stud?

goaline
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:43 pm

Post by goaline » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:49 pm

karl(east) wrote:On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.
Yeah, let's ignore the young Andover team with 3rd ranked Bantams and PeeWees -- that's wise!

karl(east)
Posts: 6257
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:03 pm
Contact:

Post by karl(east) » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:54 pm

goaline wrote:
karl(east) wrote:On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.
Yeah, let's ignore the young Andover team with 3rd ranked Bantams and PeeWees -- that's wise!
No slight intended, they'll be good. Though 3rd-ranked PeeWees aren't going to be much help over the next two years.

dlow
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:08 pm

Post by dlow » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:23 pm

Angst towards Hermantown is misplaced in my eyes. Play the best AA during the regular season and then win a championship among school size peers at the end of the year. From a player point of view, that's a great experience and clearly is good enough to develop D1 talent. Yes a AA championship would be better but they are betting on a sure thing that allows the best of both worlds.

It's been stated here before but I would place blame on AA teams that schedule them. If the hockey world and coaches are so upset that Hermantown continues their current strategy then why are they scheduling them for AA games. If AA teams stopped scheduling them they would be forced to move up if they want higher level competition throughout the year. It's as simple as that.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:16 pm

dlow wrote:Angst towards Hermantown is misplaced in my eyes. Play the best AA during the regular season and then win a championship among school size peers at the end of the year. From a player point of view, that's a great experience and clearly is good enough to develop D1 talent. Yes a AA championship would be better but they are betting on a sure thing that allows the best of both worlds.

It's been stated here before but I would place blame on AA teams that schedule them. If the hockey world and coaches are so upset that Hermantown continues their current strategy then why are they scheduling them for AA games. If AA teams stopped scheduling them they would be forced to move up if they want higher level competition throughout the year. It's as simple as that.
I agree. It is a strategy. One no different than that employed by other successful A programs like Breck, EGF, Mahtomedi, and now Delano...the better your program, the more likely AA teams will schedule you. It's what works to raise everyones game regardless of class.
Last edited by Hermhawkey on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:41 pm

I would add it works both ways. Many AA programs use A games to their advantage as well. Without some A schools on their schedule many AA teams would have many fewer wins and team chemistry/confidence suffers. (See Roseau, DM, Hopkins, Eagan....)
Teams that play strong A schools aren't afraid of anyone. Wayzata and GR for instance...Duluth East could learn from them. Perhaps that is why GR is going to St. Paul and East is watching on the the couch 2 years in a row now.

team22tank
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:52 am

Post by team22tank » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:56 pm

If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:04 pm

team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.

mulefarm
Posts: 1675
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:01 pm

Post by mulefarm » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:06 pm

Hermhawkey wrote:I would add it works both ways. Many AA programs use A games to their advantage as well. Without some A schools on their schedule many AA teams would have many fewer wins and team chemistry/confidence suffers. (See Roseau, DM, Hopkins, Eagan....)
Teams that play strong A schools aren't afraid of anyone. Wayzata and GR for instance...Duluth East could learn from them. Perhaps that is why GR is going to St. Paul and East is watching on the the couch 2 years in a row now.
I believe year in and year out East plays one of the toughest schedules. They aren't afraid to get on the bus and go anywhere. You may want to see them play HT, but to say the reason they haven't been in the tournament the last 2 years makes absolutely no sense!

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:07 pm

Breck....not in the tourney. Making sense?

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:14 pm

mulefarm wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:I would add it works both ways. Many AA programs use A games to their advantage as well. Without some A schools on their schedule many AA teams would have many fewer wins and team chemistry/confidence suffers. (See Roseau, DM, Hopkins, Eagan....)
Teams that play strong A schools aren't afraid of anyone. Wayzata and GR for instance...Duluth East could learn from them. Perhaps that is why GR is going to St. Paul and East is watching on the the couch 2 years in a row now.
I believe year in and year out East plays one of the toughest schedules. They aren't afraid to get on the bus and go anywhere. You may want to see them play HT, but to say the reason they haven't been in the tournament the last 2 years makes absolutely no sense!
HT would have given East one of their toughest games all year. They wouldn't even need a bus!! WHY as a coach would you not take advantage of that? GR shows up every year....they win 7AA the last 2 years. Not saying it IS the reason...just saying it sure as heck doesn't hurt.

team22tank
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:52 am

Post by team22tank » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:18 pm

Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.
No, this whole thing started with the two classes. The unintended consequences of A were private power houses and what Hermantown is doing. There was only one big private before and that was Hill Murray.

As times change so should the system, time to tweak it. If you want to play A, great you play an A regular season and an A post season. Class A wasn't designed to propel privates and create programs like Hermantown that abuse the system and refuse to participate in the spirit of good competition.

Time for Hermantown to put some big breezers on and come play with the big boys. And see what it is like to compete at the highest level and make the real tourney.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:44 pm

team22tank wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.
No, this whole thing started with the two classes. The unintended consequences of A were private power houses and what Hermantown is doing. There was only one big private before and that was Hill Murray.

As times change so should the system, time to tweak it. If you want to play A, great you play an A regular season and an A post season. Class A wasn't designed to propel privates and create programs like Hermantown that abuse the system and refuse to participate in the spirit of good competition.

Time for Hermantown to put some big breezers on and come play with the big boys. And see what it is like to compete at the highest level and make the real tourney.
"and what Hermantown is doing" Said as if we were doing something wrong. What we are doing is developing a bunch of really good hockey players in a small town atmosphere. Sounds like "what we are doing" is working. Our tryouts have 40-45 total kids any given year. We are "doing" just fine.

hockey59
Posts: 1701
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Post by hockey59 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.
No, this whole thing started with the two classes. The unintended consequences of A were private power houses and what Hermantown is doing. There was only one big private before and that was Hill Murray.

As times change so should the system, time to tweak it. If you want to play A, great you play an A regular season and an A post season. Class A wasn't designed to propel privates and create programs like Hermantown that abuse the system and refuse to participate in the spirit of good competition.

Time for Hermantown to put some big breezers on and come play with the big boys. And see what it is like to compete at the highest level and make the real tourney.
"and what Hermantown is doing" Said as if we were doing something wrong. What we are doing is developing a bunch of really good hockey players in a small town atmosphere. Sounds like "what we are doing" is working. Our tryouts have 40-45 total kids any given year. We are "doing" just fine.
Except...Hermantown is not a "small town"' like EGF or Little Falls or Warroad or Roseau...it's a suburb of Duluth. I don't blame the players, I blame the coaches and Hermantown rationalists who watch their kids play AA PeeWee and AA Bantam...and then think it's perfectly fine to go after a Class A HS title every year because they can. After this year Hermantown will have been in the Class A title game 8 years in a row. It's called SANDBAGGING...pure and simple and it's indefensible...in the year 2017...based on the results of the past decade. If you don't get that...there's no hope for you regarding this topic.

Hermhawkey
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Post by Hermhawkey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.
No, this whole thing started with the two classes. The unintended consequences of A were private power houses and what Hermantown is doing. There was only one big private before and that was Hill Murray.

As times change so should the system, time to tweak it. If you want to play A, great you play an A regular season and an A post season. Class A wasn't designed to propel privates and create programs like Hermantown that abuse the system and refuse to participate in the spirit of good competition.

Time for Hermantown to put some big breezers on and come play with the big boys. And see what it is like to compete at the highest level and make the real tourney.
"and what Hermantown is doing" Said as if we were doing something wrong. What we are doing is developing a bunch of really good hockey players in a small town atmosphere. Sounds like "what we are doing" is working. Our tryouts have 40-45 total kids any given year. We are "doing" just fine.
Except...Hermantown is not a "small town"' like EGF or Little Falls or Warroad or Roseau...it's a suburb of Duluth. I don't blame the players, I blame the coaches and Hermantown rationalists who watch their kids play AA PeeWee and AA Bantam...and then think it's perfectly fine to go after a Class A HS title every year because they can. After this year Hermantown will have been in the Class A title game 8 years in a row. It's called SANDBAGGING...pure and simple and it's indefensible...in the year 2017...based on the results of the past decade. If you don't get that...there's no hope for you regarding this topic.
Actually it is a small town. 614 kids regardless of open enrollment. 40-45 tryout for 40 spots for jv and varsity. You have to be 1 of 614 to play. Plain and simple. But yes, due to our success I would welcome a move up. So would many others IN the program. A few not...regardless... not our decision. Regardless, my boys love the program and love the game....all that matters to me.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Post by Jeffy95 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:42 pm

Hermhawkey wrote:
mulefarm wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:I would add it works both ways. Many AA programs use A games to their advantage as well. Without some A schools on their schedule many AA teams would have many fewer wins and team chemistry/confidence suffers. (See Roseau, DM, Hopkins, Eagan....)
Teams that play strong A schools aren't afraid of anyone. Wayzata and GR for instance...Duluth East could learn from them. Perhaps that is why GR is going to St. Paul and East is watching on the the couch 2 years in a row now.
I believe year in and year out East plays one of the toughest schedules. They aren't afraid to get on the bus and go anywhere. You may want to see them play HT, but to say the reason they haven't been in the tournament the last 2 years makes absolutely no sense!
HT would have given East one of their toughest games all year. They wouldn't even need a bus!! WHY as a coach would you not take advantage of that? GR shows up every year....they win 7AA the last 2 years. Not saying it IS the reason...just saying it sure as heck doesn't hurt.
Randolph is old school and has way too much integrity to reward a bunch of sandbaggers with a game. You want to play East you know what you need to do. You'll always be the little sister until then.

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:01 pm

Hermhawkey wrote:
hockey59 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Annnnd, the only way to beat a private....is.....make your schedule as hard as possible!! That is how this whole thing started. Privates dominated until teams like Hermantown, EGF, and now Delano came along.
No, this whole thing started with the two classes. The unintended consequences of A were private power houses and what Hermantown is doing. There was only one big private before and that was Hill Murray.

As times change so should the system, time to tweak it. If you want to play A, great you play an A regular season and an A post season. Class A wasn't designed to propel privates and create programs like Hermantown that abuse the system and refuse to participate in the spirit of good competition.

Time for Hermantown to put some big breezers on and come play with the big boys. And see what it is like to compete at the highest level and make the real tourney.
"and what Hermantown is doing" Said as if we were doing something wrong. What we are doing is developing a bunch of really good hockey players in a small town atmosphere. Sounds like "what we are doing" is working. Our tryouts have 40-45 total kids any given year. We are "doing" just fine.
Except...Hermantown is not a "small town"' like EGF or Little Falls or Warroad or Roseau...it's a suburb of Duluth. I don't blame the players, I blame the coaches and Hermantown rationalists who watch their kids play AA PeeWee and AA Bantam...and then think it's perfectly fine to go after a Class A HS title every year because they can. After this year Hermantown will have been in the Class A title game 8 years in a row. It's called SANDBAGGING...pure and simple and it's indefensible...in the year 2017...based on the results of the past decade. If you don't get that...there's no hope for you regarding this topic.
Actually it is a small town. 614 kids regardless of open enrollment. 40-45 tryout for 40 spots for jv and varsity. You have to be 1 of 614 to play. Plain and simple. But yes, due to our success I would welcome a move up. So would many others IN the program. A few not...regardless... not our decision. Regardless, my boys love the program and love the game....all that matters to me.
All they're doing is putting a pacifier in the Hermantown players mouths for the playoffs... They're not learning what it really takes to fight tooth and nail (through sections+ state tournament)for a shot at a championship and that is really hurting their hockey development through their teen years..

This type of stuff is why you see so few with NHL talent that have had a "cake" walk in their development years..

formersection3Afan
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:28 pm

Post by formersection3Afan » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:53 pm

team22tank wrote:If there is a two class system then it should exist in both regular season and playoffs.

Class A plays Class A in regular season, that should be the rule.

All Class A has accomplished is unnatural runs of dominance and propelling private schools that never had hockey backgrounds into powerhouses.
Then your jv club would have had even fewer wins this year. Irish played a few single A teams.

Locked