Hockey Hub Article on Hermantown

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hockey9011
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Post by hockey9011 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:33 am

Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Hibbing and Greenway would have competed just fine at this years tourney. They just wouldn't be the perennial favorite to win it all year after year.
2015-2016 Regular Season Pick 'em Champion

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:40 am

Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.
Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
The U invented swagger.

rainier
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Post by rainier » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:57 am

Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Hibbing, Greenway, Virginia, Eveleth, and Denfeld all have recently had or are about to have top ten A teams. Even without Hermantown 7A would do well at state. And teams like Falls, Proctor, and North Shore can also have a shot at having a great class that takes them to state. The 7A tourney would be a blast most years. That Hibbing-Greenway semi this year would have been an epic 7A final.
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

pekyman
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Post by pekyman » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:17 pm

For what it’s worth, I think Hermantown should move to AA after this year and that most in Hermantown feel the same way.
Hermantown is not the problem in class A hockey, it’s a system problem. It’s guaranteed that there will be another Hermantown after Hermantown moves up. Breck is already a team that should move and I believe SCC will get there too.
A school moving between classes should not be decided in the court of public opinion with shaming of the team(s) that don’t move. In the case of Hermantown, it sounds like there is 1 person in a powerful position that is against the move. That’s what can happen in a bureaucracy.
MSHSL need to come up with a policy/rule that deals with moving up/down from A/AA in hockey to eliminate all this BS.
Something Like:
• All Private schools are placed in AA and public school section teams vote on whether or not the private can play down in A if the private desires it. Privates in A are the biggest problem – period.
• Any public A team can move up to AA if it chooses. Maybe there is a vote here too.
• Any public A team must move up to AA for 2 years if it wins the A tourney. The winning teams section public schools could hold vote and allow team to stay in A if winning team desires, otherwise automatic move up to AA for 2 years.
I’m sure a reasonably plan could be implemented that could deal with this. It’s not working the way it is now.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:20 pm

pekyman wrote:For what it’s worth, I think Hermantown should move to AA after this year and that most in Hermantown feel the same way.
Hermantown is not the problem in class A hockey, it’s a system problem. It’s guaranteed that there will be another Hermantown after Hermantown moves up. Breck is already a team that should move and I believe SCC will get there too.
A school moving between classes should not be decided in the court of public opinion with shaming of the team(s) that don’t move. In the case of Hermantown, it sounds like there is 1 person in a powerful position that is against the move. That’s what can happen in a bureaucracy.
MSHSL need to come up with a policy/rule that deals with moving up/down from A/AA in hockey to eliminate all this BS.
Something Like:
• All Private schools are placed in AA and public school section teams vote on whether or not the private can play down in A if the private desires it. Privates in A are the biggest problem – period.
• Any public A team can move up to AA if it chooses. Maybe there is a vote here too.
• Any public A team must move up to AA for 2 years if it wins the A tourney. The winning teams section public schools could hold vote and allow team to stay in A if winning team desires, otherwise automatic move up to AA for 2 years.
I’m sure a reasonably plan could be implemented that could deal with this. It’s not working the way it is now.
All this does is give public schools the power to decide who plays where. Which I'm sure is exactly what you want.
The U invented swagger.

Mite-dad
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Post by Mite-dad » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:46 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:IMVHO, the saddest thing about the whole mess, is the weeny parents from other associations that move little "Johnny" to Hermantown to get to the tournament. Same can be said for SCC really. I highly doubt that little "Johnny" is begging his parents to leave his youth hockey friends to go to Hermantown.
Who on SCC is from outside of the St. Cloud Youth Hockey Association?
Who on Hermantown is from outside of the HYHA?

I have talked with many people in the know of this and they all say every varsity player has played in the youth program since at least peewees, most for their whole life.
If you live somewhere you can choose what school your child will attend, would you not take into consideration all factors?

I sit waiting to read the list from the roster of where these recruits are from.
I don't know Hermantown's roster. I just have read on here that parents move their kids there from Proctor or Duluth other area associations at different youth hockey levels. If I am wrong, I apologize. But it doesn't take away from the fact that because it is part of the Duluth metro area, it has advantages to draw hockey players over other isolated A programs. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe this is the best MSHSL can do. Like I said, it is what it is.

Mite-dad
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Post by Mite-dad » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:53 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:It is what it is. SCC will always have advantages over surrounding 1A schools. A good private program drawing from a large metro area and surrounding smaller communities and stays at the 1A level so they can go to the state tourny most years. Very desirable situation for parents of hockey kids in the area. Very similar to Hermantown really.
Are you proposing that they should be forced to play AA because the best players in their youth feeder system choose to play there?
I don't know what the best answer is. But if you are drawing AA numbers and talent from a large metro area and even from surrounding associations, and the only reason you are A is because you are a small "private" school, then it's not a level playing field (if you think that is important).

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Mite-dad wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:It is what it is. SCC will always have advantages over surrounding 1A schools. A good private program drawing from a large metro area and surrounding smaller communities and stays at the 1A level so they can go to the state tourny most years. Very desirable situation for parents of hockey kids in the area. Very similar to Hermantown really.
Are you proposing that they should be forced to play AA because the best players in their youth feeder system choose to play there?
I don't know what the best answer is. But if you are drawing AA numbers and talent from a large metro area and even from surrounding associations, and the only reason you are A is because you are a small "private" school, then it's not a level playing field (if you think that is important).
Life's not fair. Cathedral is playing exactly where they should be. If you think otherwise, well... :roll: ](*,)
The U invented swagger.

green4
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Post by green4 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:19 pm

Let Hermantown stay down in A, we can just send St. Thomas back down

Mite-dad
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Post by Mite-dad » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:46 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:It is what it is. SCC will always have advantages over surrounding 1A schools. A good private program drawing from a large metro area and surrounding smaller communities and stays at the 1A level so they can go to the state tourny most years. Very desirable situation for parents of hockey kids in the area. Very similar to Hermantown really.
Are you proposing that they should be forced to play AA because the best players in their youth feeder system choose to play there?
I don't know what the best answer is. But if you are drawing AA numbers and talent from a large metro area and even from surrounding associations, and the only reason you are A is because you are a small "private" school, then it's not a level playing field (if you think that is important).
Life's not fair. Cathedral is playing exactly where they should be. If you think otherwise, well... :roll: ](*,)
Yeah, heaven forbid High School sports should be fair. And yeah, you and I will never see eye to eye on this subject.

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:59 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
No, but if you run roughshod over the competition annually it makes people wonder.

Hermantown isn't a team that made state one year. They have made the final with Old Faithful regularity.
Be kind. Rewind.

Hermhawkey
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Post by Hermhawkey » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:16 pm

hockey9011 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Hibbing and Greenway would have competed just fine at this years tourney. They just wouldn't be the perennial favorite to win it all year after year.
With no disrepect to either....I disagree, unless a participation medal is your idea of success.

Joe2015
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Post by Joe2015 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.
Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
No, but if you win state at the Class A level you should have to play up

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Who gets to make the decision for Hermantown?

The school board? AD?

Does anyone know for sure?
School boards don't usually weigh in on things like this. It's the Administration and AD that makes the call. Plante said in the past that they left it up to him. Now that he's on board I have to assume it comes down to money. It's the only explanation left. They get $9,000 from the State for each of the open-enrolled kids that go there to play Hockey. I'm sure they're afraid that will dry up if they don't have the guaranteed State trip. At least that's the only thing I can think of.
That's a terrible misrepresentation of how schools are funded and what the focus of administrations is.

Hermhawkey wrote:Opting up wouldn't change the number of open enrollees and Jeffy you know it. That is ridiculous...just another way for you to keep saying "open enrollee". We will always fill the available slots (not many) and is not because of hockey but because of school reputation or proximity.

I disagree with Scott. Most parents I have talk to would like a move up now. This is alll falls on Beth Clark our AD who I have never actually seen anywhere near the rinks. Clearly out of touch. None of us hockey parents have been polled in any way. I did hear from a yourh hockey board member directly about a vote (or poll) that came back heavily in favor as I have mentioned before.
a. There's a case to be made either way on more people either open enrolling or moving in. With Class A they are a dominant team, with AA they are probably still a dominant team but go to state less often. For kids in the program, going to state is appealing. For many outside of hockey (or sports at all), they don't know a thing about classes. Going to state is much cooler than losing in sections.
b. Have parents/families actively done anything to meet with/contact the AD? It seems like that would go a long way.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:01 am

Joe2015 wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.
Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
No, but if you win state at the Class A level you should have to play up
Why?
The U invented swagger.

Mite-dad
Posts: 1113
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Post by Mite-dad » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:16 am

Joe2015 wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.
Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
No, but if you win state at the Class A level you should have to play up
Yeah, I disagree with this too. A true single A school can win the A title and then have a considerable dropoff in talent the next year due to graduation. Typical A schools have waves of talent that come through the program. They have a period of success and then it's back to rebuilding/waiting for the next wave of talent to move through. IMVHO, it is the schools that win their section every year, draw their kids from a AA youth program, and regularly compete in the state tournament that should be scrutinized for remaining in A. I think the A tournament is fine except for a few exceptions. I don't even mind the MAMLs and River Lakes' of the world that petition down. But if/as soon as they start to dominate, there needs to be a requirement to move up.

And Goldy, we will have one thing in common today. Go Crusaders!

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:19 am

Mite-dad wrote:
Joe2015 wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As a side note. It took us overtime to beat Luverne, with arguably the best team in our history. They have obviously rasied their game and so has Delano and a few others. Maybe it's time you from all the other associations start looking at how you can improve your situation and not worry so much about ours.
Yep, those teams are only 8 Straight State Championship games away! Things have really gotten tight at the A Level! We finally got Bruce on board and HermHawk is there to pick up the torch of excuses. Priceless!

:lol:
Question. If HT leaves who could compete at State in 7A?
Who cares who can compete at the Class A tourney? That was set up so small town programs would have a once in a lifetime shot at just getting there to experience it. Hermantown replacing Elk River or Andover in 7AA should be the priority.
Should every team that makes state in A be forced to move to AA the next season?
No, but if you win state at the Class A level you should have to play up
Yeah, I disagree with this too. A true single A school can win the A title and then have a considerable dropoff in talent the next year due to graduation. Typical A schools have waves of talent that come through the program. They have a period of success and then it's back to rebuilding/waiting for the next wave of talent to move through. IMVHO, it is the schools that win their section every year, draw their kids from a AA youth program, and regularly compete in the state tournament that should be scrutinized for remaining in A. I think the A tournament is fine except for a few exceptions. I don't even mind the MAMLs and River Lakes' of the world that petition down. But if/as soon as they start to dominate, there needs to be a requirement to move up.

And Goldy, we will have one thing in common today. Go Crusaders!
=D>
The U invented swagger.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:46 am

When it comes to Hermantown, my thoughts are that if it was my team, I would move up to further challenge my program to compete with the best and win a AA state title. Hermantown has built a great program and I applaud their efforts. It is a deep program at all levels and they are doing a lot right to have this success. I would get bored with dominating 7A year after year. But it's not my program and it is their decision to make.

Greenway, Hibbing and others are coming on strong and part of that is the motivation to knock off Hermantown. I root hard for these teams to break through, and if HT goes AA I will root for them against the Edinas of the world. It would be a win/win if for northern mn hockey if they moved up.

If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:49 am

zooomx wrote:When it comes to Hermantown, my thoughts are that if it was my team, I would move up to further challenge my program to compete with the best and win a AA state title. Hermantown has built a great program and I applaud their efforts. It is a deep program at all levels and they are doing a lot right to have this success. I would get bored with dominating 7A year after year. But it's not my program and it is their decision to make.

Greenway, Hibbing and others are coming on strong and part of that is the motivation to knock off Hermantown. I root hard for these teams to break through, and if HT goes AA I will root for them against the Edinas of the world. It would be a win/win if for northern mn hockey if they moved up.

If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.
Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?
The U invented swagger.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:55 am

Goldy Gopher wrote:
zooomx wrote:When it comes to Hermantown, my thoughts are that if it was my team, I would move up to further challenge my program to compete with the best and win a AA state title. Hermantown has built a great program and I applaud their efforts. It is a deep program at all levels and they are doing a lot right to have this success. I would get bored with dominating 7A year after year. But it's not my program and it is their decision to make.

Greenway, Hibbing and others are coming on strong and part of that is the motivation to knock off Hermantown. I root hard for these teams to break through, and if HT goes AA I will root for them against the Edinas of the world. It would be a win/win if for northern mn hockey if they moved up.

If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.
Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?
Ok, let me re-word this. How about "community" instead of parents. Public school is run by the community elected school board. They should have a say.

Wet Paint
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Post by Wet Paint » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:07 am

Goldy Gopher wrote:
zooomx wrote:When it comes to Hermantown, my thoughts are that if it was my team, I would move up to further challenge my program to compete with the best and win a AA state title. Hermantown has built a great program and I applaud their efforts. It is a deep program at all levels and they are doing a lot right to have this success. I would get bored with dominating 7A year after year. But it's not my program and it is their decision to make.

Greenway, Hibbing and others are coming on strong and part of that is the motivation to knock off Hermantown. I root hard for these teams to break through, and if HT goes AA I will root for them against the Edinas of the world. It would be a win/win if for northern mn hockey if they moved up.

If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.
Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?
No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:29 am

Wet Paint wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
zooomx wrote:When it comes to Hermantown, my thoughts are that if it was my team, I would move up to further challenge my program to compete with the best and win a AA state title. Hermantown has built a great program and I applaud their efforts. It is a deep program at all levels and they are doing a lot right to have this success. I would get bored with dominating 7A year after year. But it's not my program and it is their decision to make.

Greenway, Hibbing and others are coming on strong and part of that is the motivation to knock off Hermantown. I root hard for these teams to break through, and if HT goes AA I will root for them against the Edinas of the world. It would be a win/win if for northern mn hockey if they moved up.

If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.
Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?
No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?
Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.
The U invented swagger.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:34 am

zooomx wrote: If there are so many parents in Hermantown wishing for a move up, I would think they, of all people, have the power to make this happen. We don't.
The parents don't want it. They want the guaranteed trip to State. It's the reason so many parents send their kids to play there. Scott Pionk is more in touch with Hermantown hockey than anyone. If he says 75% of the parents don't want it, then it's probably true. But we all know parents are pretty clueless and that's why you have boards to make those decisions. Those who are knowledgeable about Hockey and Higher Levels of Hockey, like Scott, are the ones who want to make the move. He has one more kid coming through and he realizes the benefits. He knows that them staying in A is like Sidney Crosby playing in the AHL. "No thank you Mr. GM, I'm happy where I'm at. Look at all these goals I'm scoring!"

Daulton21
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Post by Daulton21 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:09 am

A thought to fix the system, if its even possible... but what is you are a single A school then a certain percentage of your games have to be against single A teams?? if you play More of a AA schedule you should be forced to play at the AA section play?? Seems like the Single A teams can have the best of both worlds, Play a AA schedule then drop at end of year to play only Single A teams. To me that would eliminate the single A / AA issues.
Just a thought.

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