Hockey Hub Article on Hermantown

[Wet Paint]

Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?

No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

If it is true that most of their parents want to move up as do their kids then those people they have hired are not doing what the people who hired them want them to do. If you go to work and your boss says to do XYZ and you don't then you get sent down the road and somebody new gets hired. So they should have input into this. As I said, it is their money, their kids and really their program that they have hired some people to run. If those people do not want to do what the boss(es) want them to do then they have an issue.

[Goldy Gopher]

No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

If it is true that most of their parents want to move up as do their kids then those people they have hired are not doing what the people who hired them want them to do. If you go to work and your boss says to do XYZ and you don't then you get sent down the road and somebody new gets hired. So they should have input into this. As I said, it is their money, their kids and really their program that they have hired some people to run. If those people do not want to do what the boss(es) want them to do then they have an issue.

Really? The parents hired the coach and the athletic director? How are the parents all of a sudden the ultimate boss over all school functions?

[Wet Paint]

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

If it is true that most of their parents want to move up as do their kids then those people they have hired are not doing what the people who hired them want them to do. If you go to work and your boss says to do XYZ and you don't then you get sent down the road and somebody new gets hired. So they should have input into this. As I said, it is their money, their kids and really their program that they have hired some people to run. If those people do not want to do what the boss(es) want them to do then they have an issue.

Really? The parents hired the coach and the athletic director? How are the parents all of a sudden the ultimate boss over all school functions?

They vote in the school board. They pay the taxes, they supply the kids. Yes, ultimately the parents and tax payers are the boss. so, if the Hermantown parents want to move up then they need to talk to the school board who does the hiring and firing up there. They always have been but lately parents have gotten lazy about enforcing their values on schools and have let them go their own way. It kills me to hear parents complain about stuff like this and do nothing about it.

[HShockeywatcher]

Why should parents have any say in how a high school athletic department is run?

No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

Are you serious with these comments? If people in a school are doing things that aren't in the best interest of the community you want community members to just shut up and not voice their opinion? Yeah, don't get involved in your community; that's productive.

[Goldy Gopher]

If it is true that most of their parents want to move up as do their kids then those people they have hired are not doing what the people who hired them want them to do. If you go to work and your boss says to do XYZ and you don't then you get sent down the road and somebody new gets hired. So they should have input into this. As I said, it is their money, their kids and really their program that they have hired some people to run. If those people do not want to do what the boss(es) want them to do then they have an issue.

Really? The parents hired the coach and the athletic director? How are the parents all of a sudden the ultimate boss over all school functions?

They vote in the school board. They pay the taxes, they supply the kids. Yes, ultimately the parents and tax payers are the boss. so, if the Hermantown parents want to move up then they need to talk to the school board who does the hiring and firing up there. They always have been but lately parents have gotten lazy about enforcing their values on schools and have let them go their own way. It kills me to hear parents complain about stuff like this and do nothing about it.

The school board was elected, so the parents obviously did something to have their say and elect people who they think will best represent them. If they are unhappy with the representative they have elected, those people won't get re-elected. In the meantime, it's not a group of parent's job to make any school related decisions.

[Goldy Gopher]

No reason. It is not like it is their tax money paying the way and their kids in the program. Would you say that if the math department was terrible and the parents wanted to upgrade it?

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

Are you serious with these comments? If people in a school are doing things that aren't in the best interest of the community you want community members to just shut up and not voice their opinion? Yeah, don't get involved in your community; that's productive.

They voiced their opinion when they voted for the school board. Now let the school board and the employees they choose to hire do their jobs.

[Wet Paint]

Then why don't they collectively coach the team, be the athletic director, and teach math? They don't because it isn't their job, and there are people in place whose job it is to make these decisions.

Are you serious with these comments? If people in a school are doing things that aren't in the best interest of the community you want community members to just shut up and not voice their opinion? Yeah, don't get involved in your community; that's productive.

They voiced their opinion when they voted for the school board. Now let the school board and the employees they choose to hire do their jobs.

So your boss never comes into you and says you need to do this another way. Or I like what you are doing here and here but would like to see you do this here? The boss always has input and guidance into their employee's actions. The people are the boss, they need to guide their employees to do what they want them to do.

I am not saying that they need to or should be able to micromanage the team. Yes, the coach does the coaching and etc but if he or somebody else is not following the program that they want him to then he needs to either fix it or be replaced. I am not advocating the parents being able to set lines and etc. That is their employee's job to do. But if their employee is not on board with the over arching goals of the program then he needs to get on board or leave. Same for the AD, the superintendent, the janitor, the math teacher, principle and etc. The school systems are not autonomous entities. They are put in place to serve the tax payers and parents in the district.

[Goldy Gopher]

Are you serious with these comments? If people in a school are doing things that aren't in the best interest of the community you want community members to just shut up and not voice their opinion? Yeah, don't get involved in your community; that's productive.

They voiced their opinion when they voted for the school board. Now let the school board and the employees they choose to hire do their jobs.

So your boss never comes into you and says you need to do this another way. Or I like what you are doing here and here but would like to see you do this here? The boss always has input and guidance into their employee's actions. The people are the boss, they need to guide their employees to do what they want them to do.

Then what is the point of electing a school board? Why not do away with the board and truly make the taxpayers responsible for all school related decisions. Every hire, fire, and any other decision just gets put to a city wide vote.

[hockey59]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

[Goldy Gopher]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

If that's really what the Hermantown players all want, why don't they open enroll to East when they're freshmen?

[elliott70]

It is interesting that we are not discussing whether the school board - school employees or the parents and community should decide if Hermantown should be A or AA.
While the rest of us have discussed it and someone (presumably not a Hermantown person) has even started a petition.

Bottom line is it is Hermantown's business. They are not breaking any rules. Whatever it is that is working for them, others should copy and compete.

What really bothers me is fans (including adults) taking it our on 16, 17 & 18 year olds boys. Things have gone too far, a petition, yelling at the players and the fans....
AA or A, it is still just hockey, just a game.

[hockey59]

And, in case the HT fans don't get this... COMPETING AT YHE AA LEVEL...doesn't mean you get to plan in Nov on going to State in March. every fricken year. You have to earn it against your peers.

[Goldy Gopher]

And, in case the HT fans don't get this... COMPETING AT YHE AA LEVEL...doesn't mean you get to plan in Nov on going to State in March. every fricken year. You have to earn it against your peers.

Class A schools are not peers of Hermantown?

[Wet Paint]

It is interesting that we are not discussing whether the school board - school employees or the parents and community should decide if Hermantown should be A or AA.
While the rest of us have discussed it and someone (presumably not a Hermantown person) has even started a petition.

Bottom line is it is Hermantown's business. They are not breaking any rules. Whatever it is that is working for them, others should copy and compete.

What really bothers me is fans (including adults) taking it our on 16, 17 & 18 year olds boys. Things have gone too far, a petition, yelling at the players and the fans....
AA or A, it is still just hockey, just a game.

All of that is true.

[elliott70]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

I would love to see HT in the AA tournament.

But I don't think the A tourney is about smaller schools that can't compete at the AA level.

Per MSHSL single A is for schools under a certain school population size. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. (Exceptions, those under can choose to play at the AA level IF THEY WISH; and larger schools with 50% or greater free or reduced lunch can appeal to play at the A level.)

[hockey59]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

I would love to see HT in the AA tournament.

But I don't think the A tourney is about smaller schools that can't compete at the AA level.

Per MSHSL single A is for schools under a certain school population size. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. (Exceptions, those under can choose to play at the AA level IF THEY WISH; and larger schools with 50% or greater free or reduced lunch can appeal to play at the A level.)

u
You're referring to the letter of the rules...I'm referring to the spirit of the rules. As I've said before, teams like LF with the Hanowski's and Festler, Delano with Meyers and his crew, EGF in recent years...are legitimate Single A schools who can't consistently COMPETE for a AA BIRTH at State year after year after year. STA & HT do not meet the spirit of the rule. STA moved up and are competing. HT could and should do the same. But if they don't, it's on them. They can do what you they want. HT is only hurting themselves.

[Goldy Gopher]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

I would love to see HT in the AA tournament.

But I don't think the A tourney is about smaller schools that can't compete at the AA level.

Per MSHSL single A is for schools under a certain school population size. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. (Exceptions, those under can choose to play at the AA level IF THEY WISH; and larger schools with 50% or greater free or reduced lunch can appeal to play at the A level.)

u
You're referring to the letter of the rules...I'm referring to the spirit of the rules. As I've said before, teams like LF with the Hanowski's and Festler, Delano with Meyers and his crew, EGF in recent years...are legitimate Single A schools who can't consistently COMPETE for a AA BIRTH at State year after year after year. STA & HT do not meet the spirit of the rule. STA moved up and are competing. HT could and should do the same. But if they don't, it's on them. They can do what you they want. HT is only hurting themselves.

I'm curious how you know the spirit of the rule? Were you in the room when it was being drafted? I hardly think that Hermantown thinks of themselves as "hurting."

[elliott70]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

I would love to see HT in the AA tournament.

But I don't think the A tourney is about smaller schools that can't compete at the AA level.

Per MSHSL single A is for schools under a certain school population size. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. (Exceptions, those under can choose to play at the AA level IF THEY WISH; and larger schools with 50% or greater free or reduced lunch can appeal to play at the A level.)

u
You're referring to the letter of the rules...I'm referring to the spirit of the rules. As I've said before, teams like LF with the Hanowski's and Festler, Delano with Meyers and his crew, EGF in recent years...are legitimate Single A schools who can't consistently COMPETE for a AA BIRTH at State year after year after year. STA & HT do not meet the spirit of the rule. STA moved up and are competing. HT could and should do the same. But if they don't, it's on them. They can do what you they want. HT is only hurting themselves.

I am all for Breck, Blake, SCC and HT playing AA. I am for EGF, TRF and Alex playing AA.
I can tell you I have read many rule books, many, many many laws. Never have I read any ruling that says well it doesn't say it but the spirit of it means we are doing this.

I do not want to put words in your mouth, but I will. The spirit is what we (mostly non-HT people) feel is the right thing to do. For ALL of hockey. But again, the locals (whomever they are) need to make the decision based on what is right for them.

[hockey59]

I would love to see HT in the AA tournament.

But I don't think the A tourney is about smaller schools that can't compete at the AA level.

Per MSHSL single A is for schools under a certain school population size. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. (Exceptions, those under can choose to play at the AA level IF THEY WISH; and larger schools with 50% or greater free or reduced lunch can appeal to play at the A level.)

u
You're referring to the letter of the rules...I'm referring to the spirit of the rules. As I've said before, teams like LF with the Hanowski's and Festler, Delano with Meyers and his crew, EGF in recent years...are legitimate Single A schools who can't consistently COMPETE for a AA BIRTH at State year after year after year. STA & HT do not meet the spirit of the rule. STA moved up and are competing. HT could and should do the same. But if they don't, it's on them. They can do what you they want. HT is only hurting themselves.

I'm curious how you know the spirit of the rule? Were you in the room when it was being drafted? I hardly think that Hermantown thinks of themselves as "hurting."

Obviously they don't. They like chasing the small prize each year. Good for them.

[Goldy Gopher]

u
You're referring to the letter of the rules...I'm referring to the spirit of the rules. As I've said before, teams like LF with the Hanowski's and Festler, Delano with Meyers and his crew, EGF in recent years...are legitimate Single A schools who can't consistently COMPETE for a AA BIRTH at State year after year after year. STA & HT do not meet the spirit of the rule. STA moved up and are competing. HT could and should do the same. But if they don't, it's on them. They can do what you they want. HT is only hurting themselves.

I'm curious how you know the spirit of the rule? Were you in the room when it was being drafted? I hardly think that Hermantown thinks of themselves as "hurting."

Obviously they don't. They like chasing the small prize each year. Good for them.

Correction: They like chasing the prize that they are supposed to chase based on the MSHSL rules.

[hshockeyfan53]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

GR vs MG isn't what drew almost 21,000 to the X last night. You might want to take into account the game before between two of the biggest high schools in the state.

[JohnnyBuck]

After watching Hermantown beat Luverne 2-1 the other night I came to this conclusion. Either Hermantown has become bored with the A tournament and were uninspired, leading to a lackadaisical performance or maybe Hermantown is just not that good

[elliott70]

After watching Hermantown beat Luverne 2-1 the other night I came to this conclusion. Either Hermantown has become bored with the A tournament and were uninspired, leading to a lackadaisical performance or maybe Hermantown is just not that good

Another option, maybe Luverne coach developed a game plan and the Cards executed it well and almost got the win.

[TheMNhockey1]

This thread has really went flying off into space...bottom line is the class a tournament for hockey SHOULD BE for smaller schools who can't compete at the AA Level. Hermantown has proved the past 10 years they can compete at the AA Level. Same with STA and they moved up and have made AA State 2 of 4 years since doing so. But .. if playing before 5,000 people at the X is the biggest you can think, by all means, keep your aspersions LOW. Looking at this debate another way... GR vs MG last night drew 20,500. That's called Big Time Hockey, something the HT players are currently denied a chance at...by their own coaches & administrators.

GR vs MG isn't what drew almost 21,000 to the X last night. You might want to take into account the game before between two of the biggest high schools in the state.

Outside of Mittelstadt i would say Rapids was the biggest draw though. Also why won't EP students show up?

[rainier]

I'm curious how you know the spirit of the rule? Were you in the room when it was being drafted? I hardly think that Hermantown thinks of themselves as "hurting."

Obviously they don't. They like chasing the small prize each year. Good for them.

Correction: They like chasing the prize that they are supposed to chase based on the MSHSL rules.

Correction: MSHSL rules allow a team to opt up if they want to face better competition. Hermantown doesn't want to face better competition-unless it's at youth levels or the HS regular season.

The "Hermantown isn't breaking any rules" argument is beyond lame. If you think they aren't violating the spirit of competition in HS hockey you are insane.

It's not against the rules (i.e., law ) to teach your kids to make fun of handicapped people or make racial jokes behind peoples backs, but that sure doesn't make it right.

Apparently Pionk and a few other Hermantown parents have a functioning moral compass, but unfortunately 75% of them dont.