Section assignments are up on the MSHSL website

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alcloseshaver
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Section assignments are up on the MSHSL website

Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:43 am

More balance on number of teams per section makes sense. But if limiting travel expenses for member schools based on geography they easily could have moved Andover into section 5AA.

green4
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Post by green4 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:09 am

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/newSectionAssignments.asp

I didn't see much change for AA, Hastings went to 1AA, Spring lake park moved from A to AA I believe and Blake and Minihaha academy moved into 6 AA

blueblood
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Realignment

Post by blueblood » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:13 am

Hastings to 1AA from 3AA
New Prague to 2AA from 2A
Minnihaha to 6AA from 4A
Blake to 6AA from 2A
St. Louis Park to 2A from 6AA

I think that's all AA moves

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:31 am

Looks like the Moose are 8AA

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:02 pm

All this pending appeals. Last time it left us us with some imbalances after appeals. You would think they would adjust after the appeal process or have an idea who might opt down. I am sure MAML is poised to opt down.

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:38 pm

mulefarm wrote:Looks like the Moose are 8AA
Watch out 8AA.. They have some very talented returners and a good crop of incoming bantams.

They also seemed to be the most - well coached team in the tourney.. IMO

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:11 pm

Hearing MAML appeal was denied. Staying AA.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:36 pm

As you sit back and look at the section assignments and think about what a great thing Minnesota has, best HS event in the country. Why wouldn't Hermantown want to participate, not saying this to start dialogue and please don't hijack the thread but it just doesn't make sense on so many levels.

greenwayraider
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Post by greenwayraider » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:18 pm

This year will be a real test as to the consistency and strength of the Hermantown program. They lost a ton of talent to graduation. They should still have no problem with 7A as both Hibbing and Greenway suffered the same kind of huge losses so they will not be nearly as good as they were this year. They don't have the kind of depth and talent Hermantown has with their JV. I don't think Virginia will be as good as most people expect. Virginia may be a top 15 or 20 team but will be surprised if the ever get ranked above that. Hermantown's games with the AA schools will be really interesting. If they are competitive their program is as strong as everyone believes.

rainier
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Post by rainier » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:53 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:As you sit back and look at the section assignments and think about what a great thing Minnesota has, best HS event in the country. Why wouldn't Hermantown want to participate, not saying this to start dialogue and please don't hijack the thread but it just doesn't make sense on so many levels.
It does defy all logic, but it is because East and Cloquet will be better than Hermantown for the next 2-3 years, and the Hawks' coach and AD have zero interest in not being heavily favored come playoff time.

As for Virginia, I think they will be a top ten A team next year, similar to Greenway and Hibbing this year. Despite this, they will still get trounced by Hermantown.

Perhaps they make the move in two years when their AA state-making pee wees start to hit HS, but more likely in 4 years just to be sure they won't have to risk being the underdog in any playoff game.

Meanwhile, Virginia, Greenway, and Eveleth will have some excellent top ten A teams over the next 3 years and their matchups against each other will be must-watch events for HS hockey fans up north.
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:00 pm

DB Cooper couldn't have done it better. :)

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:03 am

I guess it really isn't unprecedented.....

Why go up? What A team that has gone up has been successful year after year?

St Thomas and Cretin haven't, Totino Grace football....maybe.....GR hockey had a good two year run..Holy Angels and Roseau about the same time frame with their runs.

Let's be honest...... if you are a public school it is about the per pupil funding. Why be an also ran in 7AA and risk losing the per pupil funding you are getting from kids open enrolling to be a class A champion?

All you can say is least be honest about it...... If you will go on record as the "public school" champion....at least admit you benefit from the open enrollment policy and the fact you are a school that draws from a huge population base unlike Luverne.
Last edited by goldy313 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:09 am

I will get nto the implications moving Hastings in to 1 AA later...it is long overdue in my opinion, as administratively they have been in 1AA for ýears.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:33 am

alcloseshaver wrote:Hearing MAML appeal was denied. Staying AA.
most likely scenario now that appeal was denied is to drop the coop. Problem solved. Didn't Princeton have this issue with Big Lake/Becker.

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:26 pm

Does anyone know exactly how these teams are formed?

And how does the MSHSL do the enrollment numbers for 2017-2018 right now?

The 64th biggest school in the state from that list is Henry Sibley, who is in Class A.
63rd is Tech, who is in a AA co-op with Apollo.
62nd is St Louis Park, who is in AA.

There is a 9 team AA section (6) with 3 teams who've opted up.

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:28 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:Hearing MAML appeal was denied. Staying AA.
most likely scenario now that appeal was denied is to drop the coop. Problem solved. Didn't Princeton have this issue with Big Lake/Becker.
I highly doubt that given the youth association.
Co-oping with Buffalo is geographically very similar to Monticello, although it may not be in the best interests of players/schools.

Time will tell I suppose.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:40 pm

•Schools within 10% of a class cut-off or who feel they have “special circumstances” can appeal to the Athletic Director Advisory Committee to drop down 1 class in team sports

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:11 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:Does anyone know exactly how these teams are formed?

And how does the MSHSL do the enrollment numbers for 2017-2018 right now?

The 64th biggest school in the state from that list is Henry Sibley, who is in Class A.
63rd is Tech, who is in a AA co-op with Apollo.
62nd is St Louis Park, who is in AA.

There is a 9 team AA section (6) with 3 teams who've opted up.
Coop teams like MAML, Dodge County and Minnehaha move ahead of them in enrollment, bumping them out of the top 64.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:26 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Let's be honest...... if you are a public school it is about the per pupil funding. Why be an also ran in 7AA and risk losing the per pupil funding you are getting from kids open enrolling to be a class A champion?

All you can say is least be honest about it...... If you will go on record as the "public school" champion....at least admit you benefit from the open enrollment policy and the fact you are a school that draws from a huge population base unlike Luverne.
You're exactly right. It will never happen. Too many parents open enroll and move their kids there for the State Tournament. If it's not automatic every year they risk losing that pipeline and the money that comes with it for the school and the hockey program.
Last edited by Jeffy95 on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:32 pm

hockeydad wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:Does anyone know exactly how these teams are formed?

And how does the MSHSL do the enrollment numbers for 2017-2018 right now?

The 64th biggest school in the state from that list is Henry Sibley, who is in Class A.
63rd is Tech, who is in a AA co-op with Apollo.
62nd is St Louis Park, who is in AA.

There is a 9 team AA section (6) with 3 teams who've opted up.
Coop teams like MAML, Dodge County and Minnehaha move ahead of them in enrollment, bumping them out of the top 64.
Of the top 64, the following don't have AA programs:
-Park Center (co-ops with Osseo)
-St Paul Central (in Class A)
-Minneapolis South (Mpls co-op)
-Minneapolis Washburn (Mpls co-op)
-Kennedy (in Class A)
-Harding (no hockey)
6 total

Co-ops with no AA schools:
Dodge County
Minnehaha Academy
Monticello
3 total

If that were the case, I would assume you'd go down to 70th to get 64 teams, then bump the bottom 3 because of the co-ops, so we'd see the top 67 teams in AA, putting Sibley, Northfield, Sauk Rapids and Waconia in AA as well. But that isn't the case.

Or, if they ignored the teams without AA programs and just bumped 3 teams, then that would put us at 61 teams and St Louis Park would be in Class A.

Which leaves me to believe it's something else...

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:
hockeydad wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:Does anyone know exactly how these teams are formed?

And how does the MSHSL do the enrollment numbers for 2017-2018 right now?

The 64th biggest school in the state from that list is Henry Sibley, who is in Class A.
63rd is Tech, who is in a AA co-op with Apollo.
62nd is St Louis Park, who is in AA.

There is a 9 team AA section (6) with 3 teams who've opted up.
Coop teams like MAML, Dodge County and Minnehaha move ahead of them in enrollment, bumping them out of the top 64.
Of the top 64, the following don't have AA programs:
-Park Center (co-ops with Osseo)
-St Paul Central (in Class A)
-Minneapolis South (Mpls co-op)
-Minneapolis Washburn (Mpls co-op)
-Kennedy (in Class A)
-Harding (no hockey)
6 total

Co-ops with no AA schools:
Dodge County
Minnehaha Academy
Monticello
3 total

If that were the case, I would assume you'd go down to 70th to get 64 teams, then bump the bottom 3 because of the co-ops, so we'd see the top 67 teams in AA, putting Sibley, Northfield, Sauk Rapids and Waconia in AA as well. But that isn't the case.

Or, if they ignored the teams without AA programs and just bumped 3 teams, then that would put us at 61 teams and St Louis Park would be in Class A.

Which leaves me to believe it's something else...
I believe they don't remove the teams that petition down from the top 64.

If my math is right, the largest 56 (ending with New Prague) plus four co-ops that go into AA territory (St. Cloud, MAML, Minnehaha, Dodge County), plus four that petition down (Minneapolis, St. Paul Highland/Central, Bloomington Kennedy, St. Louis Park) = 64. Everyone else is Class A or opts up.

Actually it's unclear from that if Tech is a natural AA or is forced over by the co-op, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. The cutoff is somewhere between St. Louis Park's 1240 and Henry Sibley's 1190, though St. Louis Park has presumably optioned down using the 10% rule. (Contrary to your earlier post, they are in A now.)

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:10 am

There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:20 pm

goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:11 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.

rainier
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Post by rainier » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:33 am

zooomx wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.
Here are some facts from 2015. 21% of kids in Hermantown schools are open enrollees, and I guarantee that number hasn't gone down over the past two years.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.duluthne ... bers%3Famp
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