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zooomx
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:34 pm

Post by zooomx » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:41 am

rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.
Here are some facts from 2015. 21% of kids in Hermantown schools are open enrollees, and I guarantee that number hasn't gone down over the past two years.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.duluthne ... bers%3Famp
Not sure these fact help other than it seems obvious that families are not just open-enrolling for hockey reasons.

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:29 am

zooomx wrote:
rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.
Here are some facts from 2015. 21% of kids in Hermantown schools are open enrollees, and I guarantee that number hasn't gone down over the past two years.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.duluthne ... bers%3Famp
Not sure these fact help other than it seems obvious that families are not just open-enrolling for hockey reasons.
Interpret them any way you want; these are the facts.

That's what's so insane about what Hermantown is doing to A hockey. Just pointing out facts is considered "exaggerating" , and listing Hermantown's record against A teams and success against AA teams is considered "trolling".

In Hermantown, truth is stranger than fiction.
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

zooomx
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:34 pm

Post by zooomx » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:19 pm

rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.
Here are some facts from 2015. 21% of kids in Hermantown schools are open enrollees, and I guarantee that number hasn't gone down over the past two years.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.duluthne ... bers%3Famp
Not sure these fact help other than it seems obvious that families are not just open-enrolling for hockey reasons.
Interpret them any way you want; these are the facts.

That's what's so insane about what Hermantown is doing to A hockey. Just pointing out facts is considered "exaggerating" , and listing Hermantown's record against A teams and success against AA teams is considered "trolling".

In Hermantown, truth is stranger than fiction.
I totally agree that Hermantown should move up if they are being honest with themselves. My reasons are less about open enrollment and recruiting and more about the fact they have essentially a AA program, move up and play in that class.

I was just commenting on the anecdotal evidence that is thrown out on both sides of the issue. Maybe it's impossible to quantify how many kids open-enrolled as elementary or middle schoolers based upon hockey alone.

My last point, and I will let is rest, is that Hermantown has built a great program. This probably does draw some families who want to be part of the success, yet the backbone of their success is their youth program and Hermantown families. I know from personal experience that it would be unreasonable and maybe impossible to expect the Hermantown youth program to deny registration to these families. In the end, they still have to develop these players and if you look at their success, it is doing them a disservice to say it is all about numbers. (you may not be saying this but seems like others are) They out perform most associations/high schools that have more kids.

I don't think you are trolling, nor unreasonable in your angst. I get it. Tough situation for all other Class A teams in that area. I just think it may be unfair to the families and coaches who have built that program for so many rocks to be thrown at them. There is probably a very small handful of people who are failing to make the right call on this.

rainier
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:30 pm
Location: Earth

Post by rainier » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:04 pm

zooomx wrote:
rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
rainier wrote:
zooomx wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
goldy313 wrote:There has been movement in the bottom, enrollment wise, teams for the past few cycles.

Football has a set number of teams in 6A......32......if a school opts up like Cretin or Totino then the League forces a team down to 5A. Hockey doesn't do that, schools that opt up add to the 64.

To figure out who should be AA just look at enrollments or the classification for football....Osseo is a 6A football school. I think Park Center is as well. At any rate you can basically assume any 5A or 6A football school is an AA hockey school.

Both 1A finalists were moved out of 1A, counting New Prague that brings every section finalist save West since 2013 out of 1A....Lourdes is the big winner out of this realignment.
Football? You can actually use Football for enrollment because all you have to do is by a pair of shoes and you can play. We all know enrollment has nothing to do with Hockey. Hermantown had 4 PeeWee teams this year. East and Cloquet had only 3. That's because Hermantown has a full team of open-enrolees at each level. Many of them are top players from Duluth, Proctor, Twig, Silver Bay, Two Harbors, Ely, Hibbing, Virginia, Eveleth and Denver. How exactly does enrollment matter in that situation?
It would be nice to get the actual facts on the "open enrollment" at Hermantown. I read posts like this that seem to be exaggerating. Then I read posts from people who have kids playing in Hermantown and it seems far fewer.

4 Pee Wee Teams is really not that many. East only having 3 is disappointing. I live in a town of 13000 people and we will have 4 Pee Wee teams in the near future.
Here are some facts from 2015. 21% of kids in Hermantown schools are open enrollees, and I guarantee that number hasn't gone down over the past two years.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.duluthne ... bers%3Famp
Not sure these fact help other than it seems obvious that families are not just open-enrolling for hockey reasons.
Interpret them any way you want; these are the facts.

That's what's so insane about what Hermantown is doing to A hockey. Just pointing out facts is considered "exaggerating" , and listing Hermantown's record against A teams and success against AA teams is considered "trolling".

In Hermantown, truth is stranger than fiction.
I totally agree that Hermantown should move up if they are being honest with themselves. My reasons are less about open enrollment and recruiting and more about the fact they have essentially a AA program, move up and play in that class.

I was just commenting on the anecdotal evidence that is thrown out on both sides of the issue. Maybe it's impossible to quantify how many kids open-enrolled as elementary or middle schoolers based upon hockey alone.

My last point, and I will let is rest, is that Hermantown has built a great program. This probably does draw some families who want to be part of the success, yet the backbone of their success is their youth program and Hermantown families. I know from personal experience that it would be unreasonable and maybe impossible to expect the Hermantown youth program to deny registration to these families. In the end, they still have to develop these players and if you look at their success, it is doing them a disservice to say it is all about numbers. (you may not be saying this but seems like others are) They out perform most associations/high schools that have more kids.

I don't think you are trolling, nor unreasonable in your angst. I get it. Tough situation for all other Class A teams in that area. I just think it may be unfair to the families and coaches who have built that program for so many rocks to be thrown at them. There is probably a very small handful of people who are failing to make the right call on this.
I agree with you 100%. The blame falls on coach/AD for not making good the move up. Hermantown has a great program that does draw talent from the Duluth metro area. They would do very well in AA.
"You can't triple stamp a double stamp." -Harry Dunn

Mite-dad
Posts: 1113
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:16 am

Post by Mite-dad » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:50 am

Just curious. How many teams get to play their section tournament on their home ice?

greenwayraider
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Location: Bovey

Post by greenwayraider » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:19 am

Mite-dad wrote:Just curious. How many teams get to play their section tournament on their home ice?
Hill-Murray is the only one I can think of. Some would argue Duluth East too, but Amsoil is not where they play their regular season home games.

zooomx
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:34 pm

Post by zooomx » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:26 am

Mite-dad wrote:Just curious. How many teams get to play their section tournament on their home ice?
Do you mean other than Cathedral (and in past years Apollo) at the MAC in St. Cloud?

hockeydad
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:57 pm

Post by hockeydad » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:12 am

JM and Century (if they can make it past the first round), Minneapolis Novas, TRF, Hill Murray,

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:56 am

hockeydad wrote:JM and Century (if they can make it past the first round), Minneapolis Novas, TRF, Hill Murray,
Section 8A rotates between EGF Warroad and TRF for semis and finals.
Not a lot of argument in 8A on the way it is set up.

Mite-dad
Posts: 1113
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:16 am

Post by Mite-dad » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:16 pm

zooomx wrote:
Mite-dad wrote:Just curious. How many teams get to play their section tournament on their home ice?
Do you mean other than Cathedral (and in past years Apollo) at the MAC in St. Cloud?
Well that one bothers me the most yes. But I just wondered if there were others and if this is something MSHSL considers when they do assignments.

goldy313
Posts: 3615
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Post by goldy313 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:58 am

hockeydad wrote:JM and Century (if they can make it past the first round), Minneapolis Novas, TRF, Hill Murray,
Century plays a fair amount of home games at Graham Arena, the past few years it has been about 5 at each (this year they had more at the Rec Center though). For what it is worth Century hasn't won a "neutral" site playoff game at the Rec Center since 2009 (being outscored 29-4 since 2009), JM since 2005. Lakeville, Lakeville North, and Lakeville South all have better playoff winning percentages in Rochester than the Rochester schools.

The administrative region determines the site for playoffs, not the MSHSL.

nahc
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:10 pm

Post by nahc » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:48 pm

Easy Jeffy95...... anyone can also throw on a pair of skates and play..... but not at the Varsity level. The same holds true for football. EP, Wayazata, etc have HUGE football programs. There are TONS of kids who never make the team or play in a varsity game even though they are able to strap on a pair of cleats.

GoldyGopher
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Post by GoldyGopher » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:53 pm

nahc wrote:Easy Jeffy95...... anyone can also throw on a pair of skates and play..... but not at the Varsity level. The same holds true for football. EP, Wayazata, etc have HUGE football programs. There are TONS of kids who never make the team or play in a varsity game even though they are able to strap on a pair of cleats.
Starting hockey in 9th grade vs starting football in 9th grade is not comparable. Not saying I agree or disagree with Jeffy; but it's not comparable. Leave out the skating and running and we can agree it's comparable to learn game play. But if you factor in having to learn skating or running there is a big difference there. You are taught to run at a young age, many people never learn to skate.
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration

GoldenBear69
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:30 am

Post by GoldenBear69 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:39 pm

According to YHH ... Monticello/Annandale/Maple Lake (MAML) will return to Section 5A, not 8AA as originally labeled by the MSHSL next year.

GoldyGopher
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Post by GoldyGopher » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:51 pm

GoldenBear69 wrote:According to YHH ... Monticello/Annandale/Maple Lake (MAML) will return to Section 5A, not 8AA as originally labeled by the MSHSL next year.
Just saw that too. Ward is easily their best player and he goes to school in Annandale.

Will be interesting to see who picks annandale and maple lake up
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration

karl(east)
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Contact:

Post by karl(east) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:20 pm

GoldyGopher wrote:
GoldenBear69 wrote:According to YHH ... Monticello/Annandale/Maple Lake (MAML) will return to Section 5A, not 8AA as originally labeled by the MSHSL next year.
Just saw that too. Ward is easily their best player and he goes to school in Annandale.

Will be interesting to see who picks annandale and maple lake up
My understanding is that Ward was going to be the only returning AML player, and that he is unlikely to play HS hockey next season.

GoldyGopher
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Post by GoldyGopher » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:09 pm

karl(east) wrote:
GoldyGopher wrote:
GoldenBear69 wrote:According to YHH ... Monticello/Annandale/Maple Lake (MAML) will return to Section 5A, not 8AA as originally labeled by the MSHSL next year.
Just saw that too. Ward is easily their best player and he goes to school in Annandale.

Will be interesting to see who picks annandale and maple lake up
My understanding is that Ward was going to be the only returning AML player, and that he is unlikely to play HS hockey next season.
A wise move for him. Worst thing about dropping the co-op is they are losing the name Moose.
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration

armhockey
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:31 am

AML

Post by armhockey » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:52 am

I would imagine they would try to join Buffalo like they have in girls hockey in the past and for LAX and some other sports. Could you imagine if Ward played with the Braccini kid who is a finalist for Bantam player of the year? I heard he was a stud over the weekend at 16's!

moosepaw
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:12 pm

Down goes MAML

Post by moosepaw » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:23 pm

Never understood why Annandale-Maple Lake went to Monti......
Monti doesn't want to lose that loving feeling of going to State, I highly doubt if they do make it next year they wont be at the Xcel long, losing 11 seniors, oh yea I forgot they have a great bantam team


What happens to Ben Ward next year-? It will be tough for him to find room our on the ice

GoldyGopher
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Post by GoldyGopher » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:56 am

David La Va Voque of the Star Tribune reporting MAML only dropped Annandale, will keep Maple lake and have been approved (yesterday) to play in class A. Also reporting Ward is able to stay with team if desired.
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration

jpiehl
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:09 am

Post by jpiehl » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:08 pm

GoldyGopher wrote:David La Va Voque of the Star Tribune reporting MAML only dropped Annandale, will keep Maple lake and have been approved (yesterday) to play in class A. Also reporting Ward is able to stay with team if desired.
So are there no players in the youth program from Annandale? I realize youth and High School are separated, but to give the youth no path to play beyond Bantams is a bit self serving for the High School program. What about this year's Bantams? Do any of them suddenly find themselves without a home and too late to open enroll? I know the numbers of players from Annandale and Maple Lake have steadily declined ever since the initial co-op, but have they arrived at zero finally?

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:23 am

jpiehl wrote:
GoldyGopher wrote:David La Va Voque of the Star Tribune reporting MAML only dropped Annandale, will keep Maple lake and have been approved (yesterday) to play in class A. Also reporting Ward is able to stay with team if desired.
So are there no players in the youth program from Annandale? I realize youth and High School are separated, but to give the youth no path to play beyond Bantams is a bit self serving for the High School program. What about this year's Bantams? Do any of them suddenly find themselves without a home and too late to open enroll? I know the numbers of players from Annandale and Maple Lake have steadily declined ever since the initial co-op, but have they arrived at zero finally?
You can't just disband a co-op to stay in class A. There has to be a reason to form a co-op and that reason needs to be approved, same with disbanding a co-op.

GoldyGopher
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Post by GoldyGopher » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:06 am

jpiehl wrote:
GoldyGopher wrote:David La Va Voque of the Star Tribune reporting MAML only dropped Annandale, will keep Maple lake and have been approved (yesterday) to play in class A. Also reporting Ward is able to stay with team if desired.
So are there no players in the youth program from Annandale? I realize youth and High School are separated, but to give the youth no path to play beyond Bantams is a bit self serving for the High School program. What about this year's Bantams? Do any of them suddenly find themselves without a home and too late to open enroll? I know the numbers of players from Annandale and Maple Lake have steadily declined ever since the initial co-op, but have they arrived at zero finally?
I'm not sure what happens to them now. I'd have to assume when the sections are re-drawn again in 2 years that Monticello will be over the enrollment cut off by themselves. Maybe they join back up then? Idk
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration

armhockey
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Post by armhockey » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:26 pm

[quote="GoldyGopher"]David La Va Voque of the Star Tribune reporting MAML only dropped Annandale, will keep Maple lake and have been approved (yesterday) to play in class A. Also reporting Ward is able to stay with team if desired.[/quote]


How in the world would Monticello be able to drop down to class A by removing Annandale from the co-op but still be able to keep Annandale kids on the team. The Annandale kids should have to play with whatever school they co-op with.

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:19 am

They have allowed this in the past. Happened to our school when the combined enrollment put us in AA. They dropped the smaller school, but two seniors from the other school were allowed to finish their HS career with the old program. This was more than 10 years ago. The other school has since co-oped with another program.

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