Have at it - Top private hockey schools

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O-townClown
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Have at it - Top private hockey schools

Post by O-townClown » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:46 pm

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O-townClown
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This list

Post by O-townClown » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:46 pm

20 - Gilmour
19 - Gunnery
18 - Cretin-Derham Hall
17 - Breck
16 - Berkshire
15 - Gentry
14 - Lawrence
13 - Hill Murray
12 - St. Sebastian's
11 - St. Thomas Academy
10 - Taft
9 - Salisbury
8 - Kimball Union
7 - Belmont Hill
6 - Noble & Greenough
5 - Culver
4 - Cushing
3 - Avon Old Farms
2 - Thayer
1 - Shattuck-St. Mary's
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kniven
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Re: This list

Post by kniven » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:56 pm

private schools can eat my shorts, - with all due respect....

blueblood
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privated

Post by blueblood » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:59 pm

Does "eat my shorts" apply to Duluth Marshall too?
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east hockey
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Re: privated

Post by east hockey » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:28 pm

blueblood wrote:Does "eat my shorts" apply to Duluth Marshall too?
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Stang5280
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Post by Stang5280 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:26 pm

OK, I’ll take a shot at this since I have a passing knowledge of prep school hockey, having played at a NESCAC school and lived in Boston for a number of years. Here are a few random thoughts regarding this list.

First, comparing Minnesota schools to the New England prep schools is completely apples to oranges. Prep school rosters are filled with numerous postgraduates and/or grade repeaters, so the age difference is significant. Athletes who are 19 years old or younger on September 1 are eligible under NEPSAC (New England Preparatory School Athletic Council) regulations, which means there are plenty of 20 year olds playing. Of course there is also the issue of the boarding schools drawing from a national, even international, base of players.

If I were to quibble with some of the teams on the list, I would remove Gilmour, CDH, Gentry, and Berkshire. Gilmour is attempting to become Shattuck 2.0 (resurrecting a financially struggling school by becoming a hockey factory), but they are nowhere near that level yet. CDH has never been much of a hockey power, save for their 2006 state championship run with McDonough. I don’t believe Berkshire has ever won the top tier NEPSAC championship, and they have not been much of a factor in New England until recently. As for Gentry, I think that horse has been dead and beaten enough.

Schools that could be added in place include Holy Family, Phillips Exeter (for sure), Northwood School, and Loomis Chaffee or Kent School. Another possibility is Delbarton, the perennial NJ champs who came to MN several years back and beat Breck before dropping close games to BSM and Shattuck prep.

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Post by O-townClown » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:06 pm

Stang, I see things like you. How about South Kent School in Connecticut? Selects Academy is based there and it isn't competing against other Prep Schools. It's more like Northwood or Shattuck. You are right, hard to include Gilmour compared to a half dozen or so.

Delbarton is an interesting mention. What about Mount St. Charles or Central Catholic? That league has been leaped by the boarding schools.
Last edited by O-townClown on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:42 pm

Within the MSHSL, based on relatively recent history/short term future potential, I'd go:

1. STA
2. Hill
3. Holy Family
4. Breck
5. St. Cloud Cathedral

CDH, Marshall, SPA, and Blake all lurk somewhere in consideration.

I also would have expected to see Delbarton on there, but that's based on my time as an undergrad on the East Coast, which was a little while ago now...

Didn't some MSHSL team play Culver in the past decade? I couldn't find it with some rudimentary googling. I also recall a few games between Holy Angels and perhaps Breck against the likes of Mt. St. Mary's over the years. And of course there have been the sporadic games against SSM (plus the Elite League games), which usually suggest SSM is on the level of the top couple teams in the state, but hardly on some different plane. But, the sample size is so very small for all of the games between these schools that it's hard to say much.

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Post by Stang5280 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:16 pm

O-townClown wrote:Stang, I see things like you. How about South Kent School in Connecticut? Selects Academy is base there and it isn't competing against other Prep Schools. It's more like Northwood or Shattuck. You are right, hard to include Gilmour compared to a half dozen or so.

Delbarton is an interesting mention. What about Mount St. Charles or Central Catholic? That league has been leaped by the boarding schools.
Great call on South Kent. They totally slipped my mind for some reason. It is a tiny school, but definitely a hockey powerhouse.

As for Catholic Memorial (I assume that is who you meant) and Mount St. Charles, I considered mentioning them, but more as historical footnotes. Each school dominated their respective state tournaments for many years, but have fallen off in recent years. CM has not won the Massachusetts Super 8 since 2010 and they have been surpassed by multiple Catholic Conference rivals, most notably Malden Catholic. The Catholic Conference overall seems to have slipped in quality, as three public schools have captured the Super 8 title in the past decade. Since that format started in 1991, no public won the title until Reading in 2008. After a few down years, MSC has returned to top dog status in Rhode Island. However, they have struggled against out-of-state competition and are nowhere near as strong as during their heyday of the 1980s and 90s. In both cases it seems like the increased talent drain to prep schools is at least partly to blame for the downturns.

I recalled Holy Angels making a trip out to New England about a decade ago when I was living in Boston, and a bit of internet sleuthing confirmed that AHA tied CM 2-2 and defeated MSC 5-3 during the 2007-08 season. To give an idea of relative strength, that was a good AHA squad, but certainly nothing special, bowing out to Edina 6-2 in the section semis. CM ended up as the #1 seed in the Super 8, but was knocked out in the semis. MSC won the 2008 Rhode Island title, their first in several years.

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:42 pm

Stang, thanks for your comments and thanks for confirming my suspicion about Mount St. Charles and Catholic school hockey in Massachusetts.

Karl, you forgot Gentry.
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minnscout
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Post by minnscout » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:06 pm

BSM, in recent history (10 years), has put the most players into D1 hockey then any other MSHL private school and they are not listed? 1 season removed from undefeated season? Underclassmen are very good and deep.

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Post by O-townClown » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:04 pm

Scout, good point. It's obviously open for debate who the top private schools are.

Candidates in MSHSL:

Hill-Murray
St. Thomas
Benilde
Holy Family
Holy Angels
Cretin
Breck

I'm not as impressed by success at Class A and my reference point goes back a lot further, so I'm partial for Hill over the others. Holy Angels was THE program a little more than a decade ago.

Interesting discussion if nothing else.
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karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:48 pm

O-townClown wrote:Karl, you forgot Gentry.
Heh. I prefaced my list with "MSHSL" for a reason. :wink:

They're not in it...yet.

Leaving off Benilde was an oversight, though I think minnscout says the same thing about Benilde every year. :) They'd go in at #3 or #4...postseason results over the past 5 years are basically no different from Holy Family's, so it becomes a matter of how far back in history you want to look.

Holy Angels would have been at the top of the list 10-15 years ago, but they have a long way to go to be a factor again. Private schools certainly have a built in advantage in their ability to pull from anywhere, but the flip side of that is that when the bottom falls out, there's no youth system to fall back on. That makes Hill's consistency over the decades that much more impressive, and I expect we'll continue to see privates rise and fall some based on the coaching, quality of surrounding youth programs, etc.

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Post by BP » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:15 am

karl(east) wrote:
O-townClown wrote:Karl, you forgot Gentry.
Heh. I prefaced my list with "MSHSL" for a reason. :wink:

They're not in it...yet.

Leaving off Benilde was an oversight, though I think minnscout says the same thing about Benilde every year. :) They'd go in at #3 or #4...postseason results over the past 5 years are basically no different from Holy Family's, so it becomes a matter of how far back in history you want to look.

Holy Angels would have been at the top of the list 10-15 years ago, but they have a long way to go to be a factor again. Private schools certainly have a built in advantage in their ability to pull from anywhere, but the flip side of that is that when the bottom falls out, there's no youth system to fall back on. That makes Hill's consistency over the decades that much more impressive, and I expect we'll continue to see privates rise and fall some based on the coaching, quality of surrounding youth programs, etc.

Karl - I think it depends on what people are using as criteria. But based on what you are saying about BSM and Holy Angels not doing anything in the playoffs in recent memory, then you can't have CDH, Marshall, SPA, and Blake in your "lurking" then. One state tournament out of all 4 those schools in the past 6-7 years, and it was a the A level. CDH has some good young players, we'll see how that goes in a tough section. Marshall has yet to do anything at the AA level, SPA graduated/lost everything this season, and Blake was 1-7 in a Class A conference last year - including 2 losses to Providence and 1 to Minnehaha Academy. Not bashing your post at all - just a good, friendly discussion.

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 pm

BP wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
O-townClown wrote:Karl, you forgot Gentry.
Heh. I prefaced my list with "MSHSL" for a reason. :wink:

They're not in it...yet.

Leaving off Benilde was an oversight, though I think minnscout says the same thing about Benilde every year. :) They'd go in at #3 or #4...postseason results over the past 5 years are basically no different from Holy Family's, so it becomes a matter of how far back in history you want to look.

Holy Angels would have been at the top of the list 10-15 years ago, but they have a long way to go to be a factor again. Private schools certainly have a built in advantage in their ability to pull from anywhere, but the flip side of that is that when the bottom falls out, there's no youth system to fall back on. That makes Hill's consistency over the decades that much more impressive, and I expect we'll continue to see privates rise and fall some based on the coaching, quality of surrounding youth programs, etc.

Karl - I think it depends on what people are using as criteria. But based on what you are saying about BSM and Holy Angels not doing anything in the playoffs in recent memory, then you can't have CDH, Marshall, SPA, and Blake in your "lurking" then. One state tournament out of all 4 those schools in the past 6-7 years, and it was a the A level. CDH has some good young players, we'll see how that goes in a tough section. Marshall has yet to do anything at the AA level, SPA graduated/lost everything this season, and Blake was 1-7 in a Class A conference last year - including 2 losses to Providence and 1 to Minnehaha Academy. Not bashing your post at all - just a good, friendly discussion.
Marshall went to state in 12 and 13 before they wound up in a section with Hermantown again, so those are 3 semi-recent State berths from that group. But, yes, point taken. The CDH and Blake mentions were more speculative than anything. To make it more scientific, here's PS2's top 10 privates for the past 5 seasons:

2017
1. STA
2. Holy Family
3. Hill
4. Breck
5. SPA
6. CDH
7. Marshall
8. SCC
9. BSM
10. Roch Lourdes

2016
1. BSM
2. Holy Family
3. Breck
4. Hill-Murray
5. STA
6. SPA
7. CDH
8. SCC
9. Blake
10. Marshall

2015
1. STA
2. Hill
3. Holy Family
4. BSM
5. Breck
6. CDH
7. Marshall
8. SPA
9. Holy Angels
10. SCC

2014
1. Hill
2. STA
3. BSM
4. Holy Family
5. CDH
6. Breck
7. Marshall
8. Totino
9. SCC
10. Blake

2013
1. BSM
2. STA
3. Hill
4. Breck
5. Holy Family
6. CDH
7. Totino
8. SCC
9. Lourdes
10. Marshall

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:05 am

karl(east) wrote:
BP wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
O-townClown wrote:Karl, you forgot Gentry.
Heh. I prefaced my list with "MSHSL" for a reason. :wink:

They're not in it...yet.

Leaving off Benilde was an oversight, though I think minnscout says the same thing about Benilde every year. :) They'd go in at #3 or #4...postseason results over the past 5 years are basically no different from Holy Family's, so it becomes a matter of how far back in history you want to look.

Holy Angels would have been at the top of the list 10-15 years ago, but they have a long way to go to be a factor again. Private schools certainly have a built in advantage in their ability to pull from anywhere, but the flip side of that is that when the bottom falls out, there's no youth system to fall back on. That makes Hill's consistency over the decades that much more impressive, and I expect we'll continue to see privates rise and fall some based on the coaching, quality of surrounding youth programs, etc.

Karl - I think it depends on what people are using as criteria. But based on what you are saying about BSM and Holy Angels not doing anything in the playoffs in recent memory, then you can't have CDH, Marshall, SPA, and Blake in your "lurking" then. One state tournament out of all 4 those schools in the past 6-7 years, and it was a the A level. CDH has some good young players, we'll see how that goes in a tough section. Marshall has yet to do anything at the AA level, SPA graduated/lost everything this season, and Blake was 1-7 in a Class A conference last year - including 2 losses to Providence and 1 to Minnehaha Academy. Not bashing your post at all - just a good, friendly discussion.
Marshall went to state in 12 and 13 before they wound up in a section with Hermantown again, so those are 3 semi-recent State berths from that group. But, yes, point taken. The CDH and Blake mentions were more speculative than anything. To make it more scientific, here's PS2's top 10 privates for the past 5 seasons:

2017
1. STA
2. Holy Family
3. Hill
4. Breck
5. SPA
6. CDH
7. Marshall
8. SCC
9. BSM
10. Roch Lourdes

2016
1. BSM
2. Holy Family
3. Breck
4. Hill-Murray
5. STA
6. SPA
7. CDH
8. SCC
9. Blake
10. Marshall

2015
1. STA
2. Hill
3. Holy Family
4. BSM
5. Breck
6. CDH
7. Marshall
8. SPA
9. Holy Angels
10. SCC

2014
1. Hill
2. STA
3. BSM
4. Holy Family
5. CDH
6. Breck
7. Marshall
8. Totino
9. SCC
10. Blake

2013
1. BSM
2. STA
3. Hill
4. Breck
5. Holy Family
6. CDH
7. Totino
8. SCC
9. Lourdes
10. Marshall
What will it take to get SCC some love around here :?:
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karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:37 am

Goldy Gopher wrote:What will it take to get SCC some love around here :?:
A win over Hermantown would probably do the trick.

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Post by Goldy Gopher » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:24 pm

karl(east) wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:What will it take to get SCC some love around here :?:
A win over Hermantown would probably do the trick.
...there is that.
The U invented swagger.

HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:45 pm

karl(east) wrote:Didn't some MSHSL team play Culver in the past decade?
Academy of Holy Angels 08-09
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/teamsch ... 9&tid=2318

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