Marshall-Hermantown Game and Ending

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:34 pm

Fun game at Mars. The first period was pretty cagey, with lots of hitting and icings and something like 6 combined shots on goal. Marshall's special teams were superior, and Grannis popped a PPG. Hermantown took over 5 on 5 in the second and scored twice, though Marshall had some good pressure on a major penalty. The third was frantic back-and-forth hockey, with Marshall tying it, Hermantown going back up a minute later, and the Toppers tying it up courtesy of Grannis again.

These teams both have excellent top lines that are fun to watch...Grannis was probably the best player on the ice and a real difference-maker, while Hermantown's lower lines probably generated a little more zone time. Marshall's second line knows its role, though, and they also shot-blocked well. Flaherty broke up his top line in the 3rd, which got Marshall some better control but led to some hairy moments when Hermantown's top line, which got better as the game went on, took over. The goaltending was a question mark for both teams coming in but wasn't bad for either of them. Both teams with some questions, but also some real high-end skill, and a tie was a fair result in this one.

But I decided this game was thread-worthy because of how it ended. When OT started, they put 5 minutes up on the clock. I was confused. HS overtimes are 8 minutes, right? Surely they'd catch this and fix it? Midway through the OT, Hermantown takes its timeout and the refs confer with the clock guy...and don't change a thing. The overtime ends, and everyone shakes hands and goes home. I express bewilderment to the guy next to me, and he assures me that HS overtimes are 5 minutes.

There was some frantic searching on Twitter, but sure enough, I'm not delusional: it should've been 8. This highly entertaining hockey game got shortchanged 3 minutes. I've never seen anything like that before.

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:37 pm

Quoting goldy's post from the games of the day thread:

goldy313 wrote:
east hockey wrote:
greenwayraider wrote:3-3 tie
Only played a 5:00 OT? Thought it was supposed to be 8:00?

Lee
If I throw on my old officials jersey.....and with the knowledge the MSHSL rule is 8 minutes....

If by agreement of both coaches any period can be shortend....
The Big Nine used to play 5 minutes of OT for conference games only

I don't know if Hermantown and Marshall are in the same conference but if they are snd the conference has a rule then by default both coaches agreed to play 5 minutes.

If not sue them for a refund of your ticket cost as you did not, through no actions of your own, see a full game.

This could be plausible. Stupid, but plausible.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:56 pm

I officiated a game in Owatonna, we had 8 minutes on the clock to start overtime. With, like, 2:45 left in overtime we call a penalty on Owatonna. Mas Fukisima was the coach then I believe, calls us over and tells us the Big Nine plays 5 minutes not 8. We go over to the other coach, Austin high if I remember right, then to the site coordinator and they both confirm 5 minutes for conference games. So we end it.

Sometimes conference rules aren't updated as MSHSL rules are updated

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:10 am

I believe the Natl Federation rule says up to 8 minutes.
MSHSL calls for 8 minutes in play-offs.

sanryam · Post by **sanryam** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:45 am

If it is a conference rule, it must be a new one. Last season, on Jan 3, Denfeld played Procter (both Lake Superior teams), and the score-sheet says it went into OT with both a penalty at 5:35 and the GWG @ 5:45. There was also a game the season before that between Cloquet and Hermantown that shows 8 min OT length.

ryguyMN · Post by **ryguyMN** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:24 am

I went back and looked at the online streams. The two Hermantown games with overtime periods last weekend, vs. BSM and vs. EP, were played with an 8 minute period.

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:35 pm

The Duluth News Tribune's write-up today certainly suggested it was a mistake, not some sort of conference arrangement. Shame, but it's not like anything can be done about it now. Just when you think you've seen everything...

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:02 pm

iirc OT games in the playoffs used to alternate in length - 8 minutes, then 15, 8, 15... with a resurfacing after each subsequent 15?

Thinking of that makes me remember the 1985 state quarterfinal game between Tonka and Jefferson that went to 4 OT in which the 4th OT was suspended until Friday a.m. and the Jags stole one (outshot something like 50-26) with another sieve goal getting past Roehl and sunk the Skippers.

grindiangrad-80 · Post by **grindiangrad-80** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:36 pm

Is it possible that both coaches agreed to a 5 minute OT instead of 8? Sorry for the post if that was already answered.

WarmUpTheBus · Post by **WarmUpTheBus** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Slap Shot wrote:iirc OT games in the playoffs used to alternate in length - 8 minutes, then 15, 8, 15... with a resurfacing after each subsequent 15?

Thinking of that makes me remember the 1985 state quarterfinal game between Tonka and Jefferson that went to 4 OT in which the 4th OT was suspended until Friday a.m. and the Jags stole one (outshot something like 50-26) with another sieve goal getting past Roehl and sunk the Skippers.

Also remember Edina vs EP in the section final game at Marriucci around 2000 went into 6 overtimes. The second section final between Jefferson and Mtka started after 11:00PM.

bardown27 · Post by **bardown27** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:06 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
Slap Shot wrote:iirc OT games in the playoffs used to alternate in length - 8 minutes, then 15, 8, 15... with a resurfacing after each subsequent 15?

Thinking of that makes me remember the 1985 state quarterfinal game between Tonka and Jefferson that went to 4 OT in which the 4th OT was suspended until Friday a.m. and the Jags stole one (outshot something like 50-26) with another sieve goal getting past Roehl and sunk the Skippers.
Also remember Edina vs EP in the section final game at Marriucci around 2000 went into 6 overtimes. The second section final between Jefferson and Mtka started after 11:00PM.

Another one is the Minnetonka vs Hill game in the state tournament in 2010 being the last game of the night. Probably didn't start until close to 9pm and went 4 overtimes.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:27 pm

Bardown,I was at that one! Way too late for Grandpa and 8 year oldgrandson!

But back to the HT game , and see other HT thread also . Even More drama, mystery, and fake news/rules when the Hawks are involved?

Rich Clarke · Post by **Rich Clarke** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Also remember Edina vs EP in the section final game at Marriucci around 2000 went into 6 overtimes. The second section final between Jefferson and Mtka started after 11:00PM.[/quote]

Actually, Jefferson beat the first strong Lakeville team ever that night. The Panthers thought it was their year for the upset and it maybe was...until they had to wait three hours. Game ended 6-1 Jefferson. (Minnetonka was still in section 6 with Edina and Wayzata).

The 6 overtime game was in 1998. Edina did play a double ot game against a much favored EP team in 2000, and tied it off a face-off in the last ten seconds and won in ot. First time I heard the "season's over chant" prematurely.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:43 pm

When I played ACHA M-1 hockey at NDSU, we were tied 6-6 after overtime in a game and the refs and coaches decided there should be no shootout. Rules were a 5-man shootout. Home team got fined a few hundred Benjamins. Not sure if the MSHSL fines schools for violations or what not, but there should be some repercussion, no?

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:45 pm

boblee wrote:When I played ACHA M-1 hockey at NDSU, we were tied 6-6 after overtime in a game and the refs and coaches decided there should be no shootout. Rules were a 5-man shootout. Home team got fined a few hundred Benjamins. Not sure if the MSHSL fines schools for violations or what not, but there should be some repercussion, no?

I don't think they broke any rule.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:46 pm

elliott70 wrote:
boblee wrote:When I played ACHA M-1 hockey at NDSU, we were tied 6-6 after overtime in a game and the refs and coaches decided there should be no shootout. Rules were a 5-man shootout. Home team got fined a few hundred Benjamins. Not sure if the MSHSL fines schools for violations or what not, but there should be some repercussion, no?
I don't think they broke any rule.

Is that what was determined? It seems bizarre to me that OT lengths could vary.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:58 pm

boblee wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
boblee wrote:When I played ACHA M-1 hockey at NDSU, we were tied 6-6 after overtime in a game and the refs and coaches decided there should be no shootout. Rules were a 5-man shootout. Home team got fined a few hundred Benjamins. Not sure if the MSHSL fines schools for violations or what not, but there should be some repercussion, no?
I don't think they broke any rule.
Is that what was determined? It seems bizarre to me that OT lengths could vary.

No, that is from my memory. And I can remember you being a high school student, seems like only yesterday.
Anyway.
My memory of high school hockey rules is that they use 'National Federation' rules as adopted and amended by the MSHSL.
MSHSL rules adopt an 8 minute OT rule for play-offs.
The Federation rule is that they play an OT period not to be greater than 8 minutes.
I no longer have my Federation rule book and have not read the MSHSL rules since last March or late February so I can not swear to this, but if memory serves.....

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:59 pm

In youth hockey OT varies everywhere from being non-existent to five minutes to eight minutes until teams get to regions and beyond.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:03 pm

elliott70 wrote:In youth hockey OT varies everywhere from being non-existent to five minutes to eight minutes until teams get to regions and beyond.

Youth sports and high school sanctioned sports are not to be compared.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:10 pm

boblee wrote:
elliott70 wrote:In youth hockey OT varies everywhere from being non-existent to five minutes to eight minutes until teams get to regions and beyond.
Youth sports and high school sanctioned sports are not to be compared.

The first post is in regard to high school rules.
The second post merely points out that different rules do apply sometimes.

SquirtC'00 · Post by **SquirtC'00** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:30 pm

elliott70 wrote:
boblee wrote:
elliott70 wrote:In youth hockey OT varies everywhere from being non-existent to five minutes to eight minutes until teams get to regions and beyond.
Youth sports and high school sanctioned sports are not to be compared.
The first post is in regard to high school rules.
The second post merely points out that different rules do apply sometimes.

From MSHSL:

OVERTIME PROCEDURES
Teams will switch ends before the start of each overtime period.

Overtime Periods for Regular Season Play
In case of a tie at the end of regular play, follow the procedures outlined below:
1. Teams must remain in the bench area
2. 3-minute rest period
3. Teams switch ends prior to the start of the overtime period
4. One 8-minute sudden death overtime period will be played

Overtime Periods for Post Season Tournament Play

This procedure will be used for all Section and State Tournament games.
In case of a tie at the end of regular play, follow the procedures outlined below:
1. Teams must remain in the bench area
2. 3-minute rest period
3. Teams switch ends prior to the start of each overtime period
4. 8-minute sudden death overtime period will be played
5. Make ice with a 15 minute rest period
6. 17-minute overtime period will be played
7. If a tie remains, repeat procedures as indicated in 1-6 above