Hilltopper Holiday Classic Bracket

[Hermhawkey]

Thanks Kniven. People in the program seem happy too (none of us have any say in the HS decision making process however). That being said, I expect, (and support) an opt up after next year. Just my guess. I would add that when it happens it's not due to pressure from the outside. It would be a decision based on what is best for the program.

[SpOilerfan]

Wow! I respect Hermantown Hockey machine. “Build it and they will come”. All those kids from around 218 come to play there because it is a great program. I call that a success.

Another meaningless post. Lay off Cloquet moving to Class A they have too much pride in that program. Hermantown should be forced to play A at the youth level maybe that would change things. I also think AA teams not playing them at the high school level would open eyes as well. St Thomas moved up and are doing well, shame on Hermantown for trophy hunting!

[Stang5280]

STA has just under 500 high school students, it’s doubled on the enrollment page. Use that how you like.

For MSHSL enrollment calculations, the enrollment of single-sex schools is doubled, based on the assumption that most other schools have a 50-50 split of boys and girls attending.

[SpOilerfan]

Thanks Kniven. People in the program seem happy too (none of us have any say in the HS decision making process however). That being said, I expect, (and support) an opt up after next year. Just my guess. I would add that when it happens it's not due to pressure from the outside. It would be a decision based on what is best for the program.

The problem is they think they are entitled to go to a state tournament. This two year cycle is average so why play up?? Why not walz into another weaker tournament who 2/3 of the lower bowl is filled. Saying they beat someone in a regular season is a whole lot different than playing in Amsoil in the semis and finals. Until they show they want to compete they have no ones respect. Sadly those smaller programs are no closer to the tournament than they were in the 8 class tourney. Very sad, you should be embarrassed.

[kniven]

Hermantown Hockey has my respect . Go Hawks!!!

[Hermhawkey]

[quote="SpOilerfan"][quote="Hermhawkey"]Thanks Kniven. People in the program seem happy too (none of us have any say in the HS decision making process however). That being said, I expect, (and support) an opt up after next year. Just my guess. I would add that when it happens it's not due to pressure from the outside. It would be a decision based on what is best for the program.[/quote]

The problem is they think they are entitled to go to a state tournament. This two year cycle is average so why play up?? Why not walz into another weaker tournament who 2/3 of the lower bowl is filled. Saying they beat someone in a regular season is a whole lot different than playing in Amsoil in the semis and finals. Until they show they want to compete they have no ones respect. Sadly those smaller programs are no closer to the tournament than they were in the 8 class tourney. Very sad, you should be embarrassed.[/quote]

Embarrased?!!! Not even close. Couldn’t be any more proud of being part of the Hermantown program. I don’t know any hockey parent who would not support a move up. FYI....Parents and players not included in the decision.
To hate the parents and players is ridiculous, misguided, and misdirected. Haters are going to hate. That is what they do.

[Hermhawkey]

Thanks Kniven. People in the program seem happy too (none of us have any say in the HS decision making process however). That being said, I expect, (and support) an opt up after next year. Just my guess. I would add that when it happens it's not due to pressure from the outside. It would be a decision based on what is best for the program.

The problem is they think they are entitled to go to a state tournament. This two year cycle is average so why play up?? Why not walz into another weaker tournament who 2/3 of the lower bowl is filled. Saying they beat someone in a regular season is a whole lot different than playing in Amsoil in the semis and finals. Until they show they want to compete they have no ones respect. Sadly those smaller programs are no closer to the tournament than they were in the 8 class tourney. Very sad, you should be embarrassed.

Spoilerfan...you have as much, likely more talent, and great kids in your program right now...apparently you need to watch your own bobber more closely.

[SpOilerfan]

Thanks Kniven. People in the program seem happy too (none of us have any say in the HS decision making process however). That being said, I expect, (and support) an opt up after next year. Just my guess. I would add that when it happens it's not due to pressure from the outside. It would be a decision based on what is best for the program.

The problem is they think they are entitled to go to a state tournament. This two year cycle is average so why play up?? Why not walz into another weaker tournament who 2/3 of the lower bowl is filled. Saying they beat someone in a regular season is a whole lot different than playing in Amsoil in the semis and finals. Until they show they want to compete they have no ones respect. Sadly those smaller programs are no closer to the tournament than they were in the 8 class tourney. Very sad, you should be embarrassed.

Embarrased?!!! Not even close. Couldn’t be any more proud of being part of the Hermantown program. I don’t know any hockey parent who would not support a move up. FYI....Parents and players not included in the decision.
To hate the parents and players is ridiculous, misguided, and misdirected. Haters are going to hate. That is what they do.

Never used the word hate, nor attacked the young men who play. Its the philosophical idea and the Silver Bays and Eveleths of the world never get a chance at the pot of gold, that's wrong!

[Hermhawkey]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

[rainier2]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

Eveleth will be in the top 20 soon. Maybe even top 10 in a couple years.

[SpOilerfan]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

[Hermhawkey]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

With cities suburbs and privates, and the occasional dream team from you name it... Class A has numerous teams that could beat any AA school any given day. You have to be in that category of talent to have success. That may not be how it was intented but that is realilty. As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.

[Hermhawkey]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

Eveleth will be in the top 20 soon. Maybe even top 10 in a couple years.

I hope that is true.

[rainier2]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

With cities suburbs and privates, and the occasional dream team from you name it... Class A has numerous teams that could beat any AA school any given day. You have to be in that category of talent to have success. That may not be how it was intented but that is realilty. As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.

Can you name one of these "false" accusations? Was it "jealousy" when Plante complained about STA every year? As the newest bad guy, shouldn't you follow the example of other bad guys such as BSM, STA, Duluth Marshall, Blake, etc.?

Duluth Marshall is having a successful season in AA, according to most people's definition. You have not lost to them in 16 games, yet your team is the one still in A. Mind boggling.

[ifallsin64]

As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.
In my opinion comparing hermtown to warroad is just wrong. Warroad has played in the the real state tournament (before 2 classes) many times. Warroad and Roseau still have a great rivalry, who is hermtowns rival? East?no, CEC? no, Marshall not any more. You get to your class A tournament and represent the north well but in the end your not relevant unless you play the big boys in sections.

[kniven]

As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.
In my opinion comparing hermtown to warroad is just wrong. Warroad has played in the the real state tournament (before 2 classes) many times. Warroad and Roseau still have a great rivalry, who is hermtowns rival? East?no, CEC? no, Marshall not any more. You get to your class A tournament and represent the north well but in the end your not relevant unless you play the big boys in sections.

East
Marshall
Elk
Andover/CEC

[Upfan111]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

This is one of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Seems we've had 2 class hockey for a long time now, in realty it isn't THAT long ago hockey was a single class. Hermantown couldn't make it to a section final; and when hockey went to the 2 tier experiment did Hermantown play in tier 1?

[Hermhawkey]

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

With cities suburbs and privates, and the occasional dream team from you name it... Class A has numerous teams that could beat any AA school any given day. You have to be in that category of talent to have success. That may not be how it was intented but that is realilty. As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.

Can you name one of these "false" accusations? Was it "jealousy" when Plante complained about STA every year? As the newest bad guy, shouldn't you follow the example of other bad guys such as BSM, STA, Duluth Marshall, Blake, etc.?

Duluth Marshall is having a successful season in AA, according to most people's definition. You have not lost to them in 16 games, yet your team is the one still in A. Mind boggling.

The whole recruiting BS for one. Most the people that open enroll in the few openings come here for the school and proximity at a very young age . Pike lake area people especially. This is the reason...not hockey.

Plante is no longer here. I would expect an opt up the next chance we have and the haters can move on to something else.

[rainier2]

With cities suburbs and privates, and the occasional dream team from you name it... Class A has numerous teams that could beat any AA school any given day. You have to be in that category of talent to have success. That may not be how it was intented but that is realilty. As Hermantown has grown and become successful it has become the newest bad guy in A...Just like Warroad not long ago (and the “Marvin Scholarships”) we realize our success comes with jealousy and accusations. Mostly false. People are funny that way. Sad really.

Can you name one of these "false" accusations? Was it "jealousy" when Plante complained about STA every year? As the newest bad guy, shouldn't you follow the example of other bad guys such as BSM, STA, Duluth Marshall, Blake, etc.?

Duluth Marshall is having a successful season in AA, according to most people's definition. You have not lost to them in 16 games, yet your team is the one still in A. Mind boggling.

The whole recruiting BS for one. Most the people that open enroll in the few openings come here for the school and proximity at a very young age . Pike lake area people especially. This is the reason...not hockey.

Plante is no longer here. I would expect an opt up the next chance we have and the haters can move on to something else.

In the minutes of a Herm youth hockey board meeting from a year or two ago, they discussed the fact that recruiting of players from nearby associations was indeed happening and that there had been complaints from Herm parents about it.

This is a fact. I read it myself on the association website when someone on here pointed it out. I think someone even posted the minutes on the forum. I also know for a fact that a great player from Hibbing got a letter from Hermantown youth hockey a few years ago. It told them how great the Herm program was and that they would welcome him to join. That sure sounds like recruiting to me.

Hopefully you are right that they will go AA in 19-20. Then the recruiting, open-enrolling, and transferring won't matter anymore. They'll be in with other teams that are suburbs of large metro areas, so the footing will be equal.

[Jeffy95]

Let's see philosophical Eveleth's or North Shore's of the world even break into the top 20 in A even before you can have that discussion. That is unless your ok with sending a team from the North down for a participation trophy.

The 2nd class was created for "the little guy" not the privates and wealthy communities. play
A hockey at the youth level, or play AA at the high school level. Get off your high horse, you were never even in a section final before 2 class hockey never the less made a state tourney, and yes, I would embrace Eveleth or any other small school that makes an A tournament, couldn't care less if they win it. I keep hearing how you would win numerous 7AA titles in the past, guess we will never know, heck you were in 5a for years now that's a tough road

This is one of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Seems we've had 2 class hockey for a long time now, in realty it isn't THAT long ago hockey was a single class. Hermantown couldn't make it to a section final; and when hockey went to the 2 tier experiment did Hermantown play in tier 1?

There was no open-enrollment when it was one class. Hermantown did not have success until that started. All of their great teams have been stocked with outside talent, which is why people feel they should have to play in the higher class. If it was all Hermantown kids, this would not even be a discussion.

[Hermhawkey]

"in the minutes from a year or two ago"...You don't think there have been disgruntled parents who come into meetings frustrated because their player didn't make a top team?... and the reason was so and so moved in and was "recruited"? I am sure that likely happened (no idea) and if so, where do you think that came from? Likely here.

My players have certainly been affected by some new kids to the program over the years. We never even talk about it. They know they have to work to keep up. No ones fault but their own.

Move ins, transfers, open enrollment, foreign exchange... goes with every school and association. (Greenway has a Finnish goalie) No one lives in a vacuum, there are no borders or DNA testing. HT is growing and people come ...and people go.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

QUOTEIn the minutes of a Herm youth hockey board meeting from a year or two ago, they discussed the fact that recruiting of players from nearby associations was indeed happening and that there had been complaints from Herm parents about it.

This is a fact. I read it myself on the association website when someone on here pointed it out. I think someone even posted the minutes on the forum. I also know for a fact that a great player from Hibbing got a letter from Hermantown youth hockey a few years ago. It told them how great the Herm program was and that they would welcome him to join. That sure sounds like recruiting to me.

Hopefully you are right that they will go AA in 19-20. Then the recruiting, open-enrolling, and transferring won't matter anymore. They'll be in with other teams that are suburbs of large metro areas, so the footing will be equal.QUOTE

Great post Rainier.
My buddy from Duluth listed like 10-12 boys and 5 Girls who are all juniors and seniors at Hermantown now who aren’t playing hockey at all after losing their spots to players who didn’t come up in their youth programs. As long as it’s done legally, it’s sucks but any coach is going to play the best kids no matter their youth origins. I think what observers get frustrated about is simply the denial about what’s going on. Instead of being proud of the program and product you’ve created that brings in good players from all over (both on their own and those who are sought out and “talked to”) you minimize and deny the move ins. It’s a strange phenomenon.

[Jeffy95]

Can you name one of these "false" accusations? Was it "jealousy" when Plante complained about STA every year? As the newest bad guy, shouldn't you follow the example of other bad guys such as BSM, STA, Duluth Marshall, Blake, etc.?

Duluth Marshall is having a successful season in AA, according to most people's definition. You have not lost to them in 16 games, yet your team is the one still in A. Mind boggling.

The whole recruiting BS for one. Most the people that open enroll in the few openings come here for the school and proximity at a very young age . Pike lake area people especially. This is the reason...not hockey.

Plante is no longer here. I would expect an opt up the next chance we have and the haters can move on to something else.

In the minutes of a Herm youth hockey board meeting from a year or two ago, they discussed the fact that recruiting of players from nearby associations was indeed happening and that there had been complaints from Herm parents about it.

This is a fact. I read it myself on the association website when someone on here pointed it out. I think someone even posted the minutes on the forum. I also know for a fact that a great player from Hibbing got a letter from Hermantown youth hockey a few years ago. It told them how great the Herm program was and that they would welcome him to join. That sure sounds like recruiting to me.

Hopefully you are right that they will go AA in 19-20. Then the recruiting, open-enrolling, and transferring won't matter anymore. They'll be in with other teams that are suburbs of large metro areas, so the footing will be equal.

That was from the August 2016 Meeting Minutes:

Some coaches are also recruiting players from other districts/schools to play on HAHA teams.

It wasn't from a disgruntled parent, it was from Chad Huttel, their Coach and Player Development Coordinator.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/ ... inutes.pdf

[rainier2]

"in the minutes from a year or two ago"...You don't think there have been disgruntled parents who come into meetings frustrated because their player didn't make a top team?... and the reason was so and so moved in and was "recruited"? I am sure that likely happened (no idea) and if so, where do you think that came from? Likely here.

My players have certainly been affected by some new kids to the program over the years. We never even talk about it. They know they have to work to keep up. No ones fault but their own.

Move ins, transfers, open enrollment, foreign exchange... goes with every school and association. (Greenway has a Finnish goalie) No one lives in a vacuum, there are no borders or DNA testing. HT is growing and people come ...and people go.

Yes, this happens at many schools and associations, but primarily in AA. Greenway got one exchange student, while Hermantown gets several talented players at every grade level. Why? Because they are located in a metro area. There are 150,000 people within a short drive to Hermantown. Where will Hibbing get it's open enrollees from? Virginia, which is 30 miles away? Or Greenway, which is 30 miles the other direction? Where will TRF get their open-enrollees from? Crookston, 40 miles away? Maybe Little Falls can pull some enrollees from Brainerd to the north and St. Cloud to the south, both 30 miles away.

Greenway has two D1 committed sophomores on their roster, Virginia has an alumnus in the NHL and a current player likely to go D1, and Hibbing has former players on the World Junior team, NHL central scouting list, several D1 programs, and with the Penguins AHL team. These are good associations capable of attracting outside talent, except that when a family has to move 30+ miles to an area where jobs may not be plentiful, it's a completely different animal than a family who doesn't have to move from Proctor or West Duluth to have their kid go to Hermantown. And its a thousand times easier for transferring families to find jobs in the Duluth metro area than it is in the majority of outstate communities.

The problem is not that all other outstate A programs suck, as Peky has so eloquently put it several times. Hibbing, Greenway, Virginia, TRF, Luverne, Little Falls, etc. have all had/have top ten Class A teams recently. But since they don't have 100,000 within a ten minute drive, they can't reload with open-enrollees and transfers every year.

You think it is so common because you live in a metro area! It happens in outstate MN, but it is relatively rare. I feel like you Hermantown fans are stuck in the year 2002. Hermantown is not a small town program and hasn't been for quite awhile. That is why you play AA at youth levels.

I feel for the Hermantown players. I wonder how they felt the last two years watching the AA champ raise the trophy in front of 17,000 people, knowing that they beat both those teams. If I'm a Hermantown fan, I'm livid that those kids didn't get a shot at the big stage, instead they were forced to sleepwalk to a couple more A title games, which, at this point, are meaningless for Hermantown.

[Hermhawkey]

Jeffy,

Regardless of the content posting those financials and proprietary minutes goes way beyond the level of appropriate. And because it was a topic to be discussed in minutes doesn't make it fact. You are way over the line there.