Longer season and periods proposed

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ndirishfighting
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Location: MN

Longer season and periods proposed

Post by ndirishfighting » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:06 pm

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article/show/876208

If this does go thru I sure hope MN Youth Hockey adjusts times for youth games!

Squirts 12 minute periods
PeeWee 15 minute periods
Bantams 17 minute periods
High School 20 minute periods
They’re kids NOT PROFESSIONALS
It’s just a game!

elliott70
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Re: Longer season and periods proposed

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 pm

ndirishfighting wrote:http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article/show/876208

If this does go thru I sure hope MN Youth Hockey adjusts times for youth games!

Squirts 12 minute periods
PeeWee 15 minute periods
Bantams 17 minute periods
High School 20 minute periods
District 16 plays 17 minute period for bantams and peewee.
Girls and squirts play 15 periods unless both coaches would like to play 17.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Re: Longer season and periods proposed

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:15 pm

ndirishfighting wrote:http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article/show/876208

If this does go thru I sure hope MN Youth Hockey adjusts times for youth games!

Squirts 12 minute periods
PeeWee 15 minute periods
Bantams 17 minute periods
High School 20 minute periods
I would like to see the MSHSL allow girls JV teams to play Minnesota Hockey 15U teams (and vice versa).

blueline_6
Posts: 219
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Re: Longer season and periods proposed

Post by blueline_6 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:29 pm

elliott70 wrote:
ndirishfighting wrote:http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article/show/876208

If this does go thru I sure hope MN Youth Hockey adjusts times for youth games!

Squirts 12 minute periods
PeeWee 15 minute periods
Bantams 17 minute periods
High School 20 minute periods
I would like to see the MSHSL allow girls JV teams to play Minnesota Hockey 15U teams (and vice versa).
Might be some USA Hockey hoops to jump through. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think MSHSL teams are registered with USAH. The 15U teams are. So either the MSHSL teams would need to be registered with USAH, or MN Hockey would need to allow the 15U teams to play non-USAH teams, which I think they frown on for insurance reasons.

blueline_6
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Post by blueline_6 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:43 pm

I don't think it has a chance to go through and I think the supporters know that. They are trying to draw attention and plant a seed for future change. My hunch is they would eventually like to "concede" the increase in period length and "settle" for only getting increased number of games.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Re: Longer season and periods proposed

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:07 pm

blueline_6 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
ndirishfighting wrote:http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article/show/876208

If this does go thru I sure hope MN Youth Hockey adjusts times for youth games!

Squirts 12 minute periods
PeeWee 15 minute periods
Bantams 17 minute periods
High School 20 minute periods
I would like to see the MSHSL allow girls JV teams to play Minnesota Hockey 15U teams (and vice versa).
Might be some USA Hockey hoops to jump through. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think MSHSL teams are registered with USAH. The 15U teams are. So either the MSHSL teams would need to be registered with USAH, or MN Hockey would need to allow the 15U teams to play non-USAH teams, which I think they frown on for insurance reasons.
For years USAH with prior approval would aloe about 5 games against non-USAH teams (applied to jr gold and then 15U teams mostly against JV teams).
A few years ago MSHSL said no this arrangement.

It would be nice if they got together and said OK. God forbid they did something good for the kids.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:09 pm

blueline_6 wrote:I don't think it has a chance to go through and I think the supporters know that. They are trying to draw attention and plant a seed for future change. My hunch is they would eventually like to "concede" the increase in period length and "settle" for only getting increased number of games.
Yes, I think so also.

Game length extension would mean starting JV at least one-half hour earlier, probably one hour. Maybe extend varsity but leave JV at 17.

bardown27
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Post by bardown27 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:13 pm

elliott70 wrote:
blueline_6 wrote:I don't think it has a chance to go through and I think the supporters know that. They are trying to draw attention and plant a seed for future change. My hunch is they would eventually like to "concede" the increase in period length and "settle" for only getting increased number of games.
Yes, I think so also.

Game length extension would mean starting JV at least one-half hour earlier, probably one hour. Maybe extend varsity but leave JV at 17.
I know right now the majority of JV games are still 15 minute periods

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:40 pm

bardown27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
blueline_6 wrote:I don't think it has a chance to go through and I think the supporters know that. They are trying to draw attention and plant a seed for future change. My hunch is they would eventually like to "concede" the increase in period length and "settle" for only getting increased number of games.
Yes, I think so also.

Game length extension would mean starting JV at least one-half hour earlier, probably one hour. Maybe extend varsity but leave JV at 17.
I know right now the majority of JV games are still 15 minute periods
Ok
don't go to many, maybe none this year.

So bantams you might play 17 then to JV and play less games for shorter times???
That's a step down (except for parent's pocket book).

blueline_6
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:23 pm

Post by blueline_6 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:48 pm

bardown27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
blueline_6 wrote:I don't think it has a chance to go through and I think the supporters know that. They are trying to draw attention and plant a seed for future change. My hunch is they would eventually like to "concede" the increase in period length and "settle" for only getting increased number of games.
Yes, I think so also.

Game length extension would mean starting JV at least one-half hour earlier, probably one hour. Maybe extend varsity but leave JV at 17.
I know right now the majority of JV games are still 15 minute periods
There are 14-15 year olds playing Varsity hockey in various programs across the state. I don't think the MSHSL is going to support having these kids play the same game length as adult college/pro players. MSHSL has to consider the impact to all players, not just if the top teams/players could handle it.

Or MSHSL could come back and say okay to 20 minute periods, but then only allow a player three periods in a day as opposed to the current four.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Extending the periods probably isn't quite as important as extending the number of games. Adding aything less than 10 games would have minimal if any effect on a kids decision to leave high school and play elsewhere

Starting the season one month earlier (about the time association hockey starts) and adding 10-12 games, now you're talking impact

Although there is plenty of enough fall hockey for these kids with all the "leagues" and tier 1 stuff I would be all in favor of pushing that to the side and getting kids playing more games with their HS town

Goose21
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Post by Goose21 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:47 pm

I don’t think the mshl would consider extending the season to start sooner or end later to encroach on the fall and spring sport seasons. Adding extra games and/or lenghting varsity games is worth considering. As far as I know, JV games are 17.
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 am

My issue with extending the periods 3 minutes is you're really only talking about adding 3 or 4 shifts per kid per game

I don't see that changing the thought process of why kids are opting out of HS hockey.

Now add 10 games and you may have peoples attention

blueline_6
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Post by blueline_6 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:01 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:My issue with extending the periods 3 minutes is you're really only talking about adding 3 or 4 shifts per kid per game

I don't see that changing the thought process of why kids are opting out of HS hockey.

Now add 10 games and you may have peoples attention
Agree. That's why I think the extended game length is just something they are throwing in so that they can "concede" it later and look like they are trying to compromise. What they really want is more games.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:19 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Extending the periods probably isn't quite as important as extending the number of games. Adding aything less than 10 games would have minimal if any effect on a kids decision to leave high school and play elsewhere

Starting the season one month earlier (about the time association hockey starts) and adding 10-12 games, now you're talking impact

Although there is plenty of enough fall hockey for these kids with all the "leagues" and tier 1 stuff I would be all in favor of pushing that to the side and getting kids playing more games with their HS town
What really needs to change here is the narrative. Most kids who leave early are leaving to the USHL, and I would assume a vast majority of those players are able to play "before and after's" with their USHL team. With that assumption, extending the high school season by weeks at the beginning or end doesn't help at all... it just cuts in to the before/after time.

USHL teams play 2 games a week... maybe once a month they play 3 in a week, plus a full week off around Christmas. That's really comparable to the high school schedule. So, players competing in the USHL before the season, playing high school for their community, and then finishing the season in the USHL are not really losing any games... especially if you do add even just 3 or so games to the high school season (or extend periods).

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:21 am

Goose21 wrote:I don’t think the mshl would consider extending the season to start sooner or end later to encroach on the fall and spring sport seasons. Adding extra games and/or lenghting varsity games is worth considering. As far as I know, JV games are 17.
JV games can be 15-17 minutes depending on home team's preference and conference rules. The vast majority in the Twin Cities are 15 minutes.

Wildcathcky
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Post by Wildcathcky » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:23 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Extending the periods probably isn't quite as important as extending the number of games. Adding aything less than 10 games would have minimal if any effect on a kids decision to leave high school and play elsewhere

Starting the season one month earlier (about the time association hockey starts) and adding 10-12 games, now you're talking impact

Although there is plenty of enough fall hockey for these kids with all the "leagues" and tier 1 stuff I would be all in favor of pushing that to the side and getting kids playing more games with their HS town
Adding high school games at the expense of the HS Elite League or other Tier 1 fall options would likely increase the exodus of high end kids from high school hockey. The falls hockey options offer those kids far more exposure to junior/college scouts than regular high school hockey does. The scouts can see a high number of top end kids in one place at one time.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:47 am

Not necessarily. These types of leagues would just readjust (move to spring or earlier in the fall)...

The goal here is to grow HS hockey and not let checkbook hockey invade it even more.

I personally fear the day that Tier 1 takes over our sport in the winter and really takes a bite out of HS hockey. If you don't think that may/is happening.... stay tune

To grow HS hockey we have to increase the number of games, focus back on the community based model (by limiting kids moving around) and get our youth numbers back up.

Back to the topic post. I would welcome a handful of more games. But the reason this will be tough to sell is many athletic departments are run by the football coach and the last thing they want is another sport competing for their numbers





Wildcathcky wrote:
yesiplayedhockey wrote:Extending the periods probably isn't quite as important as extending the number of games. Adding aything less than 10 games would have minimal if any effect on a kids decision to leave high school and play elsewhere

Starting the season one month earlier (about the time association hockey starts) and adding 10-12 games, now you're talking impact

Although there is plenty of enough fall hockey for these kids with all the "leagues" and tier 1 stuff I would be all in favor of pushing that to the side and getting kids playing more games with their HS town
Adding high school games at the expense of the HS Elite League or other Tier 1 fall options would likely increase the exodus of high end kids from high school hockey. The falls hockey options offer those kids far more exposure to junior/college scouts than regular high school hockey does. The scouts can see a high number of top end kids in one place at one time.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:18 am

What about pushing the state tournament back to the end of March, extending the season a couple of weeks, and adding more games? What spring sports are you really running over? Track, lacrosse, baseball? The weather is still pretty crappy in late March and into April and a lot of these events end up cancelled. Better to start hockey season later, stay away from football, and end the hockey season later.

Also, I wouldn't make relying on USHL teams to allow B&A as part of my permanent plan. Things can change in that league like the wind. All it takes is for a trend of coaches to not allow B&A on their teams, commit to the full season or don't come at all, and that part of the plan gets blown up.

The steps that need to be taken should be taken by the MSHSL without depending on outside leagues like the USHL.

Personally, I wouldn't extend the game times, I would add at least 5 more games on to the season and extend the season a couple of weeks. I would offer the HS Elite League and make those teams Tier 1 teams and play a Tier 1 schedule with them.

I would do anything that needs to be done to preserve the HS model. Minnesota doesn't know how good it has it with HS Hockey, well, maybe we do. Look at the rest of country. Look at Michigan, Chicago, New England. Do you really want THAT system?

Green and White Fan
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Post by Green and White Fan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:11 am

Up North, JV games are always 17 minute periods.
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

SFA1992
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Post by SFA1992 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:16 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:What about pushing the state tournament back to the end of March, extending the season a couple of weeks, and adding more games? What spring sports are you really running over? Track, lacrosse, baseball? The weather is still pretty crappy in late March and into April and a lot of these events end up cancelled. Better to start hockey season later, stay away from football, and end the hockey season later.

Also, I wouldn't make relying on USHL teams to allow B&A as part of my permanent plan. Things can change in that league like the wind. All it takes is for a trend of coaches to not allow B&A on their teams, commit to the full season or don't come at all, and that part of the plan gets blown up.

The steps that need to be taken should be taken by the MSHSL without depending on outside leagues like the USHL.

Personally, I wouldn't extend the game times, I would add at least 5 more games on to the season and extend the season a couple of weeks. I would offer the HS Elite League and make those teams Tier 1 teams and play a Tier 1 schedule with them.

I would do anything that needs to be done to preserve the HS model. Minnesota doesn't know how good it has it with HS Hockey, well, maybe we do. Look at the rest of country. Look at Michigan, Chicago, New England. Do you really want THAT system?
This sums it up perfectly.

bardown27
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Post by bardown27 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:29 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:What about pushing the state tournament back to the end of March, extending the season a couple of weeks, and adding more games? What spring sports are you really running over? Track, lacrosse, baseball? The weather is still pretty crappy in late March and into April and a lot of these events end up cancelled. Better to start hockey season later, stay away from football, and end the hockey season later.
I know some states like Iowa play high school sponsored baseball during the summer. That could be something to look into as well in order to extend the season and not cut into spring sports.

massalsa
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Re: Longer season and periods proposed

Post by massalsa » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:45 am

elliott70 wrote: I would like to see the MSHSL allow girls JV teams to play Minnesota Hockey 15U teams (and vice versa).
Have not thought it completely thru but seems like a great idea.

Wet Paint
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Post by Wet Paint » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:58 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Extending the periods probably isn't quite as important as extending the number of games. Adding aything less than 10 games would have minimal if any effect on a kids decision to leave high school and play elsewhere

Starting the season one month earlier (about the time association hockey starts) and adding 10-12 games, now you're talking impact

Although there is plenty of enough fall hockey for these kids with all the "leagues" and tier 1 stuff I would be all in favor of pushing that to the side and getting kids playing more games with their HS town
Problem is I don't think that "pushing them aside" is up to us. Adding 10 to 12 games is going to cost money. More ice time, more bus trips, and etc. Sure, if you live in the cities it is no big deal to add 10 games. 5 more trips across town in a bus. How about those kids who live on the range or in the south part of the state? Does I-Falls want to make too many more of those trips? How about Luverne? Probably not something that they are really pushing to do. I could actually see that hurting the numbers and might even take some of those programs that are hanging on by a thread due to budget and etc and just have them say lets drop hockey all together. Look at the co-ops that have kids travelling all ready, those parents might look at it and say "great, another month of driving my kid or letting my kid drive back and forth" and just drop them. Fewer teams or more co-ops will drop numbers in hockey because it will become "just not worth the hassle and increased costs".

There is money to be made in hockey. Look at the teams that continue to spring up. THe fall Elite leagues are looked at as a joke by lots of people already since it seems like politics play a huge part in it when it comes to team selections. Even before this season finishes you know who is going to make the teams next fall. Sure, they have "tryouts" which are nothing more than a way to make money for the league and they probably fill a couple of slots with kids who are 3rd and 4th stringers who won't really get much ice time. Adding games and trying to tell parents that this combined with staying in the "elite" league will help your kid is gonna be a tough sell. Sure, if your kid is already on the "top kid" track and is making those teams he will just get more games. If your kid is not one of those kids who makes those teams (for whatever reason, real or perceived) then this will be a non factor. Your kid will just transfer out and play Tier 1 full time if they can just to try to keep up with their peers who are getting more ice time now that more games have been added. It is good to have a top kid on your team but when you look at teams who are doing well you see that most of the real work is done by those lower, upper end kids who will leave when they get less exposure than they are now because they are not getting the nod to the "elite" league teams that their high profile mates are.

This will definitely create more separation between the haves and the have nots and both the parents and the kids will want to find a way to close that gap. I think that "back in the day" where most of the MN Hockey and High School League people still live this would have helped. Could probably have held off the open season recruiting efforts for awhile. In this day of parents having more money and being willing to spend it, way more opportunities that we had coming up to play other places, more information being available (how much did you really know about a team out west before the internet and social media?) so it is easy to find the kids and for the kids to find the teams, and etc all mean that this might make it possible for us to watch more hockey it won't affect the number of kids staying and playing in a positive way. Sure, kids want to play with their friends and etc but we already see kids leaving places like Ely to go someplace where they can play more hockey and get more time in front of the scouts. They will move on, stay in touch with their friends through social media and won't look back.

Remember, the kids that we need to keep around here are those upper middle end kids and those lower, upper level kids who are leaving. Most of the top end kids are getting what they need from the current system so they are happy. Most of the lower level kids are happy to stay and play and then if they want to and can go play a year or 2 of Tier 3 level hockey someplace before going to college or to work. Those B- to A- level kids (for lack of a better way of putting it) are the ones who are being looked for by Tier 1 programs and I am not so sure this will make a difference.

Zamman
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Post by Zamman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:55 pm

I am all for the exteding the time to 20 minutes for HS games, but as an arena employee this means that the last group of the night will also be extended later. That means I need to work later....get up early so shorter night. Gonna kick the groups out of the lockerrooms. Some groups will not be happy having to drink outside in the winter. My groups on those nights will understand, but there may be another group one night that won't understand. Too BAD!!!!

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