The Hermantown Thread

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elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:02 pm

"All of the open-enrollment/transfer data is contained within these 12 pages and all over the forum if you really want to see it. Start with Net Presence's posts, he's obviously very close to the situation. I don't have time to go back, but I believe he said 13 of the 20 kids on last year's roster came from other programs. There are at least 7 that I know of from this year's team but I'm sure he knows of more. "


All of this year's roster live in the Hermantown school district.
1 player moved in during bantams - they were moving to the Duluth area they decided between East and Hermantown and preferred the Hermantown neighborhood.
1 player mover as a first year pee-wee.
3 other came in in squirts or mites.
the others have been there from the start of their hockey career.

Again, if you state something you should have the facts to support it.

But the bottom line is yes, AA would be the appropriate place for them.
But we don't decide, the parents don't decide, Hermantown youth hockey does not decide AND the players don't decide.
Your constant whining complaining only serves to madden those close to the program.
this is the way it is - change it if you like but this is not where that will happen, move to Hermantown, run for school board and effect the change.

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:24 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:02 pm
"All of the open-enrollment/transfer data is contained within these 12 pages and all over the forum if you really want to see it. Start with Net Presence's posts, he's obviously very close to the situation. I don't have time to go back, but I believe he said 13 of the 20 kids on last year's roster came from other programs. There are at least 7 that I know of from this year's team but I'm sure he knows of more. "


All of this year's roster live in the Hermantown school district.
1 player moved in during bantams - they were moving to the Duluth area they decided between East and Hermantown and preferred the Hermantown neighborhood.
1 player mover as a first year pee-wee.
3 other came in in squirts or mites.
the others have been there from the start of their hockey career.

Again, if you state something you should have the facts to support it.

But the bottom line is yes, AA would be the appropriate place for them.
But we don't decide, the parents don't decide, Hermantown youth hockey does not decide AND the players don't decide.
Your constant whining complaining only serves to madden those close to the program.
this is the way it is - change it if you like but this is not where that will happen, move to Hermantown, run for school board and effect the change.

It’s really interesting how that when I talked to hockey people about this even 5 years ago, they were all pissed. I believe that has changed over the last year. Most people I talk to admit it’s a success the way they do it. I think Greenway is going to now start duplicating the Hermantown model in Coleraine. The Raiders have done well using the Hermantown model the last couple years, and I think it’s great. You would think Duluth Marshall would have invented this model, but they don’t have a clue, really. A private, you would think, would have a built in advantage attracting players. First the Hawks, Greenway....which school(program) is next to follow this model that Hermantown has perfected.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:32 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:02 pm
"All of the open-enrollment/transfer data is contained within these 12 pages and all over the forum if you really want to see it. Start with Net Presence's posts, he's obviously very close to the situation. I don't have time to go back, but I believe he said 13 of the 20 kids on last year's roster came from other programs. There are at least 7 that I know of from this year's team but I'm sure he knows of more. "


All of this year's roster live in the Hermantown school district.
1 player moved in during bantams - they were moving to the Duluth area they decided between East and Hermantown and preferred the Hermantown neighborhood.
1 player mover as a first year pee-wee.
3 other came in in squirts or mites.
the others have been there from the start of their hockey career.

Again, if you state something you should have the facts to support it.

But the bottom line is yes, AA would be the appropriate place for them.
But we don't decide, the parents don't decide, Hermantown youth hockey does not decide AND the players don't decide.
Your constant whining complaining only serves to madden those close to the program.
this is the way it is - change it if you like but this is not where that will happen, move to Hermantown, run for school board and effect the change.
I don't know their roster that well, you would have to ask Net Presence for the actual numbers. But even I know that you're missing a Sophomore from Proctor who has never lived in Hermantown and two Juniors from Duluth. Obviously they don't all open enroll, some of them have to move. Joey Pierce and the Gotz Brothers weren't going to commute from Ely and Hibbing every day. Same with the Sophomore from Hayward, that's a long drive. If you're going there specifically for Hockey, I don't think the route matters that much. Those that can afford to move will move. Those who can't will open-enroll. Either way, the Hermantown transfer/open-enroll argument was put to rest a long time ago.
I don't fault them for it anymore. If you can get away with it why wouldn't you do it? I've been hard on them in the past but you have to admit it's genius.
If that sounds like whining to you then I can tell your kids have been out of the house for a looong time!

O-townClown
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by O-townClown » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:56 pm

A friend's son played for John Calipari at Memphis. He said "the model" was to dominate a lesser conference and play some games outside of league against the powers. It ensured a gaudy record. Before Memphis he had done the same at Massachusetts.

Of course things changed when he took the Kentucky job. That's a lot of money so you can understand why.

Not exactly the same as H-town and the Tigers weren't automatically in the post-season NIT, but there are similarities.
Be kind. Rewind.

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:00 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:32 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:02 pm
"All of the open-enrollment/transfer data is contained within these 12 pages and all over the forum if you really want to see it. Start with Net Presence's posts, he's obviously very close to the situation. I don't have time to go back, but I believe he said 13 of the 20 kids on last year's roster came from other programs. There are at least 7 that I know of from this year's team but I'm sure he knows of more. "


All of this year's roster live in the Hermantown school district.
1 player moved in during bantams - they were moving to the Duluth area they decided between East and Hermantown and preferred the Hermantown neighborhood.
1 player mover as a first year pee-wee.
3 other came in in squirts or mites.
the others have been there from the start of their hockey career.

Again, if you state something you should have the facts to support it.

But the bottom line is yes, AA would be the appropriate place for them.
But we don't decide, the parents don't decide, Hermantown youth hockey does not decide AND the players don't decide.
Your constant whining complaining only serves to madden those close to the program.
this is the way it is - change it if you like but this is not where that will happen, move to Hermantown, run for school board and effect the change.
I don't know their roster that well, you would have to ask Net Presence for the actual numbers. But even I know that you're missing a Sophomore from Proctor who has never lived in Hermantown and two Juniors from Duluth. Obviously they don't all open enroll, some of them have to move. Joey Pierce and the Gotz Brothers weren't going to commute from Ely and Hibbing every day. Same with the Sophomore from Hayward, that's a long drive. If you're going there specifically for Hockey, I don't think the route matters that much. Those that can afford to move will move. Those who can't will open-enroll. Either way, the Hermantown transfer/open-enroll argument was put to rest a long time ago.
I don't fault them for it anymore. If you can get away with it why wouldn't you do it? I've been hard on them in the past but you have to admit it's genius.
If that sounds like whining to you then I can tell your kids have been out of the house for a looong time!
LOL

greenwayraider
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by greenwayraider » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:10 pm

I sure hope Hermantownstays in Class A, this board will be awful boring if they move to AA. Thirteen pages and 30,504 views must be a record.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:59 am

Boys you got to take your Hairmantown rant over to the "The Hermantown Thread"
It's where Karl lets us rubes vent the spleen on all things Hairmantown related.
Them's the rules.

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:30 am

Bigfoot12 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:59 am
Will play DE anytime Randolph will allow it. Most of these sophomores have beem with the program since mites. This class has beaten up DE for years. As far as a trip to state why do people care what class your school is in. IT'S FOR THE KIDS.
I'm sure "most" of them have been together since Mites, but the top three players are transfers/open-enrollees. That's why they're good.

When this class was 2nd year PeeWees they were 0-2-2 against East. Maybe you were referring to a fight after a game or something? Tough to go by Bantams since East pulls the top players to High School, but this class may indeed be better than East now with all the transfers.

Goose21
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Goose21 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:57 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:30 am
Bigfoot12 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:59 am
Will play DE anytime Randolph will allow it. Most of these sophomores have beem with the program since mites. This class has beaten up DE for years. As far as a trip to state why do people care what class your school is in. IT'S FOR THE KIDS.
I'm sure "most" of them have been together since Mites, but the top three players are transfers/open-enrollees. That's why they're good.

When this class was 2nd year PeeWees they were 0-2-2 against East. Maybe you were referring to a fight after a game or something? Tough to go by Bantams since East pulls the top players to High School, but this class may indeed be better than East now with all the transfers.
People care because it is about kids from places other than Hermantown. I don't believe that having a "super team" (in the manner in which Hermantown has) is good for hockey in 7A or across Minnesota.
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

kniven
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Location: Duluth area

Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 pm

Wouldn’t it be interesting if high school hockey in Minnesota took on a very different look. Example. Most teams (the good ones) had 3-4 out of state/school district boys added to the rosters each year. It’s happening in the metro a lot now. Where a lot of the talent on the high schools teams is not from the district. Team would no longer represent the high schools they represent but the most talent they could attract from outside the district and local kids.

If that’s our future, than that’s our future. Seems to be going that way. Another class would come about. The class for private’s and public’s that have transfers/move in’s in a significant amount on their roster. MSHSL would identify teams for this class on a yearly basis.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Stang5280
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:50 pm

kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 pm
Wouldn’t it be interesting if high school hockey in Minnesota took on a very different look. Example. Most teams (the good ones) had 3-4 out of state/school district boys added to the rosters each year. It’s happening in the metro a lot now. Where a lot of the talent on the high schools teams is not from the district. Team would no longer represent the high schools they represent but the most talent they could attract from outside the district and local kids.

If that’s our future, than that’s our future. Seems to be going that way. Another class would come about. The class for private’s and public’s that have transfers/move in’s in a significant amount on their roster. MSHSL would identify teams for this class on a yearly basis.
Another alternative is something like the Massachusetts Super 8 tournament, which is simply a state championship for the eight (now ten with two play-ins) teams deemed to be the best, regardless of size or public/private status. It is a fun event, but obviously devalues the tournaments for the other teams based on classifications. Mass. also has more HS hockey programs, and a small number of catholic schools have traditionally dominated the landscape. So I’m not sure this is a feasible option for Minnesota where there is a wider talent distribution.

Slap Shot
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:14 pm

kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 pm
Wouldn’t it be interesting if high school hockey in Minnesota took on a very different look. Example. Most teams (the good ones) had 3-4 out of state/school district boys added to the rosters each year.
Is this verifiable? And by those 3-4 were these short-term or long-term adds? For instance Tonka did get 3 this year although 1 returned was a returnee from a private school and Motzko moved in legitimately due to a relocation of employment. Last year I think they had 1 and iirc have rarely had more than 1 in any given year in recent memory.

I know it happens but not sure it's that rampant across the entire metro.

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:20 pm

You would have to ask the MSHSL. I’m just saying this is where it is going. You heard it here first 🤓
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:38 pm

kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:20 pm
You would have to ask the MSHSL. I’m just saying this is where it is going. You heard it here first 🤓
These are just my thoughts. The MSHSL is going to whatever they need to, to protect their product. They don’t want Minnesota high school to become a farm system for the entire country/state. It would eventually become a farm team/high school hockey team. The super team concept/free agent singing atmosphere is so popular and accepted these days. The common folk being played as stupid so their afraid to call what’s so obvious. Progressive thinking is also very cool, and this would be very progressive thinking.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:41 pm

Goose21 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:57 pm
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:30 am
Bigfoot12 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:59 am
Will play DE anytime Randolph will allow it. Most of these sophomores have beem with the program since mites. This class has beaten up DE for years. As far as a trip to state why do people care what class your school is in. IT'S FOR THE KIDS.
I'm sure "most" of them have been together since Mites, but the top three players are transfers/open-enrollees. That's why they're good.

When this class was 2nd year PeeWees they were 0-2-2 against East. Maybe you were referring to a fight after a game or something? Tough to go by Bantams since East pulls the top players to High School, but this class may indeed be better than East now with all the transfers.
People care because it is about kids from places other than Hermantown. I don't believe that having a "super team" (in the manner in which Hermantown has) is good for hockey in 7A or across Minnesota.
Yes. When Class A teams are successful by building with their own kids everyone tips their cap, i.e. East Grand Forks a few years ago. We all know that hasn't been the case in Hermantown for a very long time.

You're correct, it's especially bad for 7A but also for the sport in general. And probably not a very good lesson for the kids. Success without integrity is failure. But it's good for the adults and they are the ones who get to decide.

Slap Shot
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:08 am

kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:38 pm
kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:20 pm
You would have to ask the MSHSL. I’m just saying this is where it is going. You heard it here first 🤓
These are just my thoughts. The MSHSL is going to whatever they need to, to protect their product. They don’t want Minnesota high school to become a farm system for the entire country/state. It would eventually become a farm team/high school hockey team. The super team concept/free agent singing atmosphere is so popular and accepted these days. The common folk being played as stupid so their afraid to call what’s so obvious. Progressive thinking is also very cool, and this would be very progressive thinking.
This is a pretty bold claim and why would I ask MSHSL if your claims are verifiable? I don't see the system becoming, "super teams" full of transfers any time soon and not seeing the results to back it up.

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:11 am

Slap Shot wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:08 am
kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:38 pm
kniven wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:20 pm
You would have to ask the MSHSL. I’m just saying this is where it is going. You heard it here first 🤓
These are just my thoughts. The MSHSL is going to whatever they need to, to protect their product. They don’t want Minnesota high school to become a farm system for the entire country/state. It would eventually become a farm team/high school hockey team. The super team concept/free agent singing atmosphere is so popular and accepted these days. The common folk being played as stupid so their afraid to call what’s so obvious. Progressive thinking is also very cool, and this would be very progressive thinking.
This is a pretty bold claim and why would I ask MSHSL if your claims are verifiable? I don't see the system becoming, "super teams" full of transfers any time soon and not seeing the results to back it up.
I think we've all grown to accept some player movement at the AA level as a fact of life. It doesn't happen at the same scale as Hermantown because there are no guarantees in AA. Thus, you still have a pretty even playing field. You can't just pick a team in AA and be guaranteed a trip to State as things can change very quickly. Hermantown is an aberration in that they drop down to Class A for the High School Playoffs, with teams that have won at AA throughout youth. As long as the players keep coming in, they are Guaranteed a trip to State. And in a Metro area plus the Range and NW Wisconsin, there are plenty of players to bring in. That's the only scenario where you end up with "Super Teams." They've created a fool proof system there that can't be matched anywhere else in the state, especially not at the A level.

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am

Perused 3 top Class A schools schedules and their top bantam schedule.
The high school play 25 to 50 percent of their games against AA.
Their bantams play 50 to 75% against AA programs.


Seems like the thing to do.

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:49 am

elliott70 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am
Perused 3 top Class A schools schedules and their top bantam schedule.
The high school play 25 to 50 percent of their games against AA.
Their bantams play 50 to 75% against AA programs.


Seems like the thing to do.
Hermantown Bantams are at 100%. Not even one measly game against a Class A Bantam team.

Cathedral is ranked #2 in Class A. They play 2 AA teams all year for 8%. Surprising as they are only an hour from the TC Metro.
EGF is at 20%, all against Moorhead, Bemidji and Roseau from Section 8.
Mahtomedi is at 43% but being in the TC Metro I suppose that makes sense.
Hermantown at 60% as an outstate team, including games against Section 2AA and 6AA teams. I imagine that would be higher if they didn't have mandatory conference games and there were more weekends during the season. They don't mess around.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:51 am

elliott70 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am
Perused 3 top Class A schools schedules and their top bantam schedule.
The high school play 25 to 50 percent of their games against AA.
Their bantams play 50 to 75% against AA programs.


Seems like the thing to do.
Are these A schools playing Edina, Eden Prairie, Wayzata, and Minnetonka multiple times each year in youth while never playing against the A teams in their future HS section, a la Hermantown? Or is it Warroad playing Roseau, Moorhead, and Bemidji multiple times? Big difference.

Hermantown PWAA and BAA have not played a 7A team yet this season, which is the norm for them. Why do they not play 7A teams in youth hockey?

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:05 pm

The MSHSL ‘s loopholes have been exposed by Hermantown hockey. More squads throughout the state should expose these loopholes as well. Hermantown isn’t breaking any MSHSL rules.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:22 pm

"Hermantown PWAA and BAA have not played a 7A team yet this season, which is the norm for them. Why do they not play 7A teams in youth hockey?"

I am sure you know this but there is no high school - youth hockey connection. Two separate organizations.
Youth hockey designation is district 11.
It includes
AA teams of Hermantown, Duluth East & Cloquet etal.

Hermantown, Denfeld and Proctor have A level teams im district 11.
They all play each other.
Hermantown also plays Virginia, Intl Falls Eveleth, Greenway
Proctor also plays Virginia Hibbing I Falls and Eveleth.


Hermantown's AA team does not play the A level teams.
Now Greenway, Proctor, Denfeld and others could petition to play AA hockey.

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:27 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:22 pm
"Hermantown PWAA and BAA have not played a 7A team yet this season, which is the norm for them. Why do they not play 7A teams in youth hockey?"

I am sure you know this but there is no high school - youth hockey connection. Two separate organizations.
Youth hockey designation is district 11.
It includes
AA teams of Hermantown, Duluth East & Cloquet etal.

Hermantown, Denfeld and Proctor have A level teams im district 11.
They all play each other.
Hermantown also plays Virginia, Intl Falls Eveleth, Greenway
Proctor also plays Virginia Hibbing I Falls and Eveleth.


Hermantown's AA team does not play the A level teams.
Now Greenway, Proctor, Denfeld and others could petition to play AA hockey.
Exactly
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Goose21
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Goose21 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:40 pm

kniven wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:05 pm
The MSHSL ‘s loopholes have been exposed by Hermantown hockey. More squads throughout the state should expose these loopholes as well. Hermantown isn’t breaking any MSHSL rules.
So more squads throughout the state using loopholes is good for hockey?
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:52 pm

Goose21 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:40 pm
kniven wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:05 pm
The MSHSL ‘s loopholes have been exposed by Hermantown hockey. More squads throughout the state should expose these loopholes as well. Hermantown isn’t breaking any MSHSL rules.
So more squads throughout the state using loopholes is good for hockey?
Times are changing.....that’s all.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

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