The Hermantown Thread

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HSPuckFan96
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by HSPuckFan96 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:21 pm

I still think Hermantown shouldn't be forced to move up...If I was part of that program, I think I would want my team playing up. That being said, their enrollment is A and that is where they play.

As I stated earlier, including STA in this isn't really the same thing...they have AA enrollment in boys. They are and should be considered an AA team. They play 5A football, which includes schools like Chaska, Chanhasssen, Apple Valley, Hastings, Rogers, Elk River, Andover, East, Bemidji, and Moorhead...all teams that are AA in hockey, and I don't believe any of them opt up.

Just because Plante cried about STA, and he's from Hermantown, doesn't mean it's the exact same argument.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:26 pm

And tgat is exactly what Hermantown is doing. Compare it to going into a fight with your best chins knowing that you have a 99% chance of winning every game, a 90% chance of running time, and a 80% chance of wining the whole thing. Sounds like bullying to me. Big gang of people against someone that one person could probably beat themselves,
Bullying. Look it up in dictionary,
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:36 pm

People in your own school system have used the bullying idea.

Hypothetical story

A kid plays hockey in, let’s say Eveleth. For eight years his team is bullied, beaten, and humiliated for all eight years. Over time the kid, and I’m sure I would be the same, would get sick of that and decide to join the team bullying yours. No more beat downs, humiliations, and how about that I may get to beat up on a bunch of teams, kids, myself. How awesome is that. Who wouldn’t want to skip out on the beating and get to beat down others.
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TwinPortsHockeyFan
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by TwinPortsHockeyFan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:48 pm

Why is the enrollment cutoff for A and AA so high? They should move it down to 500. And if Roseau (I'm guessing they're below 500, but not sure) wants to still move up, let them. If we're going to have a Class A tournament (I'd be in favor of getting rid of it all together), let's make it where it's only the schools that have literally no shot at winning the AA tournament.

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:07 pm

TwinPortsHockeyFan wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:48 pm
Why is the enrollment cutoff for A and AA so high? They should move it down to 500. And if Roseau (I'm guessing they're below 500, but not sure) wants to still move up, let them. If we're going to have a Class A tournament (I'd be in favor of getting rid of it all together), let's make it where it's only the schools that have literally no shot at winning the AA tournament.
And you would have about 30 schools in A and 125 in double A.

Breck, Warroad, St CC, Roseau, Warroad, Greenway, Eveleth would be the dominate schools.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:29 pm

Somebody refresh my memory .

Team in 15 year stretch of time. Ever in A or AA. Has any school ever had a run like this.

Hermantown
11 state tourney appearances
9 state championship games
3 championships

At what point is it a great group of classes of hockey kids coming through your school. When you can say well it was a good run. And at what point has there been excellence consistently there. The Hawks have a Bantam AA and A team in top ten who haven’t even hit the high school team yet. When excellence is met over 15 years is it time to take the next step?

Does anyone have the data to look at Edina, Warroad, Eveleth in old days, Duluth East, etc. any of them hit this consistent excellence?
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:30 pm

How many championships does the list provided by Elliott have. In 15 year span, state tourney appearances.
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elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm

15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

15 years 1996 to 2000
Warroad 3 championships 10 appearances

Thief River Falls, Warroad and East Grand forks the only winners in section 8 single A.
And in the last 23 years only 3 times has another team been in the section finals.

Warroad and EGF peewee and bantam teams qualified for MAHA state so the tend is not too likely to change.
Last edited by elliott70 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jeffy95
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:06 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:29 pm
Somebody refresh my memory .

Team in 15 year stretch of time. Ever in A or AA. Has any school ever had a run like this.

Hermantown
11 state tourney appearances
9 state championship games
3 championships

At what point is it a great group of classes of hockey kids coming through your school. When you can say well it was a good run. And at what point has there been excellence consistently there. The Hawks have a Bantam AA and A team in top ten who haven’t even hit the high school team yet. When excellence is met over 15 years is it time to take the next step?

Does anyone have the data to look at Edina, Warroad, Eveleth in old days, Duluth East, etc. any of them hit this consistent excellence?
The Hermantown Bantam AA team ran the table at the Region tournament this weekend, outscoring their opponents 19-1.

The Bantam A team lost a one goal game (with an EN) in the true 2nd game to EGF to just miss out on State. They finished ahead of Hibbing, Denfeld and Virginia, the other 7A teams that made it to Regions. With their 2nd Team! Yep, Skaters 16-30 were better than every other 7A team this year in Bantams.

Can you imagine this group in the 7A playoffs in three years? And throw in the 10th Graders at that time also? Do they even make them play the games?
Last edited by Jeffy95 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm
15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

So two other teams have ever won 3 championships in a 15 year span? Sounds like excellence. Excellence over long periods of time. And no end to this dominance in sight with the bantams excelling as well. What do they have left to prove in A tourney?

Athletic bullying anyone. Review previous post!
Last edited by Hunters1993 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:17 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm
15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

So two other teams have ever won 3 championships in a 15 year span? Sounds like excellence. Excellence over long periods of time. And no end to this dominance in sight with the bantams excelling as well. What do they have left to prove in A tourney?
No, that is just the ones that I can remember, Bloomington Jefferson won 3 in a row in the 1990's.

I think Benilde won 3 championships in less than a 10 year span.

Edina won 5?? in about a 15?? year span.

Eveleth won 5 out of 7.
Grand Rapids had 3 championships and 9 appearances in the 1970's to 1981 or so.
Last edited by elliott70 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:19 pm

How about we look at state tourney appearances over 15 year span? Consecutive championship games?

Someone see if we can get a list going on this.
Last edited by Hunters1993 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:19 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:06 pm
Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:29 pm
Somebody refresh my memory .

Team in 15 year stretch of time. Ever in A or AA. Has any school ever had a run like this.

Hermantown
11 state tourney appearances
9 state championship games
3 championships

At what point is it a great group of classes of hockey kids coming through your school. When you can say well it was a good run. And at what point has there been excellence consistently there. The Hawks have a Bantam AA and A team in top ten who haven’t even hit the high school team yet. When excellence is met over 15 years is it time to take the next step?

Does anyone have the data to look at Edina, Warroad, Eveleth in old days, Duluth East, etc. any of them hit this consistent excellence?
The Hermantown Bantam AA team ran the table at the Region tournament this weekend, outscoring their opponents 19-1.

The Bantam A team lost a one goal game (with an EN) in the true 2nd game to EGF to just miss out on State. They finished ahead of Hibbing, Denfeld and Virginia, the other 7A teams that made it to Regions. With their 2nd Team! Yep, Skaters 16-30 were better than every other 7A team this year in Bantams.

Can you imagine this group in the 7A playoffs in three years? And throw in the 10th Graders at that time also? Do they even make them play the games?
Yet there’s still people who think they should remain at the single A level. Smh

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:23 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:19 pm
How about we look at state tourney appearances over 15 year span? Consecutive championship games?

Someone see if we can get a list going on this.
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rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:19 pm

zooomx wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:13 pm
Today it's Hermantown
Yesterday it was STA
If Hermantown moves up then tomorrow it will be St. Cloud Cathedral, EGF and Warroad.
Soon after Alexandria, Mahtomedi, Orono, etc, etc, etc.

So, if all larger or stronger Class A schools move up we would be left with a great AA tournament, yet a lot of quality programs that have little chance to make it. The Class A tournament would be a yawner. If we are going to go that route, we might as well just go 3 classes that are more evenly balanced.

Let's also identify the rub here. For years Hermantown was sick of playing Jan to STA's Marsha. So they pissed and moaned until STA moved up.

Today the screaming about Hermantown is 99% about Section 7A. If Hermantown was 5A, then the Monticellos, Princetons and North Branches of the world would be on this board complaining.

My point is this: There will always be a big bully school in the way of some teams getting what they want. Hermantown moving up only moves the scrutiny on to the next school. It will never end and it is exhausting.
Does this mean you think watching Alexandria in the bantam A state tourney is a yawner, too? Hermantown, Mahtomedi, and St. Cloud kids are all playing AA at youth, so the bantam A tourney must really suck for you to watch, right? Maybe they should just shut it down, given that A schools are so untalented and hard to watch. :roll:

And we'll see what you have to say if SCC starts taking the 6A title nine out of every ten years.
Last edited by rainier2 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:22 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:19 pm
How about we look at state tourney appearances over 15 year span? Consecutive championship games?


Someone see if we can get a list going on this.
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defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:58 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm
15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

So two other teams have ever won 3 championships in a 15 year span? Sounds like excellence. Excellence over long periods of time. And no end to this dominance in sight with the bantams excelling as well. What do they have left to prove in A tourney?

Athletic bullying anyone. Review previous post!
Actually it means that Crookston or Detroit Lakes or Baudette will or should be trying even harder to catch the other three. The other three will continue to compete with them to stay up and with eachother to get ahead. Simple competition really.
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defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:09 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:19 pm
zooomx wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:13 pm
Today it's Hermantown
Yesterday it was STA
If Hermantown moves up then tomorrow it will be St. Cloud Cathedral, EGF and Warroad.
Soon after Alexandria, Mahtomedi, Orono, etc, etc, etc.

So, if all larger or stronger Class A schools move up we would be left with a great AA tournament, yet a lot of quality programs that have little chance to make it. The Class A tournament would be a yawner. If we are going to go that route, we might as well just go 3 classes that are more evenly balanced.

Let's also identify the rub here. For years Hermantown was sick of playing Jan to STA's Marsha. So they pissed and moaned until STA moved up.

Today the screaming about Hermantown is 99% about Section 7A. If Hermantown was 5A, then the Monticellos, Princetons and North Branches of the world would be on this board complaining.

My point is this: There will always be a big bully school in the way of some teams getting what they want. Hermantown moving up only moves the scrutiny on to the next school. It will never end and it is exhausting.
Does this mean you think watching Alexandria in the bantam A state tourney is a yawner, too? Hermantown, Mahtomedi, and St. Cloud kids are all playing AA at youth, so the bantam A tourney must really suck for you to watch, right? Maybe they should just shut it down, given that A schools are so untalented and hard to watch. :roll:

And we'll see what you have to say if SCC starts taking the 6A title nine out of every ten years.
I think adding AA to youth hockey took a little shine off an A tournament appearance for sure. Do I think it's bad hockey?? No. It is what it is. Which is not the only state bantam tournament anymore. It leaves the same confusion as we have in HS hockey. Just wait until some of teams who decided to field a AA team decide to stop doing that in the future. Same arguments will be present.
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:48 pm

defense wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:58 pm
Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm
15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

So two other teams have ever won 3 championships in a 15 year span? Sounds like excellence. Excellence over long periods of time. And no end to this dominance in sight with the bantams excelling as well. What do they have left to prove in A tourney?

Athletic bullying anyone. Review previous post!
Actually it means that Crookston or Detroit Lakes or Baudette will or should be trying even harder to catch the other three. The other three will continue to compete with them to stay up and with eachother to get ahead. Simple competition really.

The schools will continue to compete and go down fighting, I guarantee that. Problem is the athletic bullying over right, nine, ten years wears kids out and makes Hermantown look really good and those other schools look awful. Then kids like Ely kid, or Virginia kid make a run for the big bully and enjoy not being the bullied but the bully leaving the other schools without a chance, like I said going to a game when you know 99% of your games against A schools will be wins, 80% will be running time , and you have about a 80% chance of winning a championship. Must be great being the bully in the story. Even some in your own school district have used Bullying examples.
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:52 pm

How about eight strait championship games 2010-2017.
That is excellence. Why wouldn’t you want excellence to be tested against other excellence.

Took a look at the games vs class A competition this year
7 wins in running time
2 wins by five goals
1 win by three goals


Elliott you got any teams that have made that kind of run?
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Slap Shot
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:23 am

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:48 pm
Slap Shot wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm
Thunderstruck wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:41 pm
What if there was no moving up a class, what if all schools had to play where their enrollment dictates. That would put CEC and Grand Rapids in 7A. Then some of the kids(or should I say parents) couldn't just pick up and move to H-town aka Lake Superior Stars high school team for a 99.8% chance of going to state tournament. This would make 7A more competitive and maybe it wouldn't be as much of a guaranteed trip to the x. Might of been Rapids this year. Other sports don't have move ups. What do you guys think. 8A Roseau, Warroad EGF section would be awesome also.
I would go for this, but place all the privates schools into the fewest number of sections possible to reduce the likelihood that privates would dominate entries into the tournament.
From the 2011 tourney to this years, there have only been 13 private schools to make the tourney, and only 1 private has won AA (BSM in 2012).This is the first year in the last 10 that there have been more than 2 AA private school teams in the tourney, so I wouldn't worry so much about privates "dominating" tournament entries.

As for A, there have been 20 private schools in the tourney since the 2011 tournament, with the early 2010's having 3 (2011) and 4 (2012 and 22013) when STA was still class A they went and won it 3x in a row. Since they moved up, there has only been more than 2 private times one time (2016) and only one private school has won the A tournament since STA moved up (SCC last year).
If all the AA privates were placed into A and spread out as they currently are it would change the overall dynamic of A without question.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:29 am

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:17 pm
Hunters1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm
15 years from 1957 to 1972
International Falls 6 champions and 11 appearances
Roseau 3 championships and 12 appearances (including 3 runner-ups).

15 years from 2005 to 2019
Duluth East 10 appearances
Moorhead 7 appearances
STA won 5 11 appearances

So two other teams have ever won 3 championships in a 15 year span? Sounds like excellence. Excellence over long periods of time. And no end to this dominance in sight with the bantams excelling as well. What do they have left to prove in A tourney?
No, that is just the ones that I can remember, Bloomington Jefferson won 3 in a row in the 1990's.

I think Benilde won 3 championships in less than a 10 year span.

Edina won 5?? in about a 15?? year span.

Eveleth won 5 out of 7.
Grand Rapids had 3 championships and 9 appearances in the 1970's to 1981 or so.
Falls, Eveleth, Rapids, Edina and Roseau did all that during the 1 class era, with Rapids and Roseau opting up in the 2 class era.

East, Jefferson and Moorhead achieved it in AA. STA and BSM did it in A but have since moved to AA.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Nostalgic Nerd » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:34 am

Again, Plante complained about the distinct advantage STA had over inferior competition, but than he continued to stay on the A level to the tune of 9 finals. Not only is it ridiculous but it makes him a hypocrite.

You're going to have to answer this very point. The rest of the arguments "for" are meaningless.
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:42 am

All these programs were consistently excellent.

But again give me a list of teams that made eight straight championship games. I only found one program who has EVER had such consistent excellence. There is nothing left to prove in class A!
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zooomx
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by zooomx » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:53 am

defense wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:09 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:19 pm
zooomx wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:13 pm
Today it's Hermantown
Yesterday it was STA
If Hermantown moves up then tomorrow it will be St. Cloud Cathedral, EGF and Warroad.
Soon after Alexandria, Mahtomedi, Orono, etc, etc, etc.

So, if all larger or stronger Class A schools move up we would be left with a great AA tournament, yet a lot of quality programs that have little chance to make it. The Class A tournament would be a yawner. If we are going to go that route, we might as well just go 3 classes that are more evenly balanced.

Let's also identify the rub here. For years Hermantown was sick of playing Jan to STA's Marsha. So they pissed and moaned until STA moved up.

Today the screaming about Hermantown is 99% about Section 7A. If Hermantown was 5A, then the Monticellos, Princetons and North Branches of the world would be on this board complaining.

My point is this: There will always be a big bully school in the way of some teams getting what they want. Hermantown moving up only moves the scrutiny on to the next school. It will never end and it is exhausting.
Does this mean you think watching Alexandria in the bantam A state tourney is a yawner, too? Hermantown, Mahtomedi, and St. Cloud kids are all playing AA at youth, so the bantam A tourney must really suck for you to watch, right? Maybe they should just shut it down, given that A schools are so untalented and hard to watch. :roll:

And we'll see what you have to say if SCC starts taking the 6A title nine out of every ten years.
I think adding AA to youth hockey took a little shine off an A tournament appearance for sure. Do I think it's bad hockey?? No. It is what it is. Which is not the only state bantam tournament anymore. It leaves the same confusion as we have in HS hockey. Just wait until some of teams who decided to field a AA team decide to stop doing that in the future. Same arguments will be present.
Agreed. Go to the State Bantam A tournament and you will see maybe 50 fans in the stands that are not family of players. It's still a fun tournament, but comparing Bantam Hockey to High School hockey is just plain silly. And regarding SCC... they knocked us out 3 out of 4 years and you don't see me whining. Yeah, there are " private school" snide comments made about SCC around our rink, but nothing like what I read on this forum. I get it... it absolutely suh-hucks for all the other 7A schools that Hermantown won't move up. I wish they would, as it would be fun to see them compete at AA. My point is the def-con 5 level of angst on this forum is silly. Talk of harassing the players at the games? Dumb.

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