The Hermantown Thread

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ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:36 pm

This was an article written last year by legacy.com before Duluth East played Hermantown for the 1st time in forever due to COVID. Some pretty telling Statements from both Coaches.

Hockey fans geeked out about the renewal of the series between Hermantown and Duluth East should be advised to savor every second of the northern Minnesota powerhouses’ two games this season.

Because that’s all they are going to get for the foreseeable future.

“We have 24 of our 25 games set already on our schedule for next year,” Duluth East coach Mike Randolph said. “They are not on it.”

“They” would be Hermantown, Duluth East’s opponent tonight at the Heritage Sports Center. Barring unforeseen circumstances — such as, say, a lingering global pandemic — the Hawks will not make an appearance on the Greyhounds’ schedule next year, the year after or the year after that. Or any year Randolph, in his 32nd season coaching the Greyhounds, remains in control of East’s storied program.

Randolph believes Hermantown, which competes for the Class 1A state title, has built what is, in effect, a Class 2A program. He says it would benefit high school hockey to have the Hawks opt up to play in the big-school playoffs, as many high-end northern Minnesota high schools do, thus opening the door for smaller programs with once-in-a-decade teams to reach the the state tournament (Hermantown has won six of the last seven Section 7A titles).

“They play double-A in youth hockey,” Randolph said. “They play a double-A schedule in high school hockey, then they go A come playoff time. And shellack everybody.”

School districts around the state have imposed travel restrictions on their athletic teams because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Duluth East was forced to slash most of its annual trips to the Twin Cities to face Class 2A competition. Hermantown had to cut most of its road trips, too.

Given the circumstances, and both teams’ desire to play the best competition available, both Randolph and Hermantown coach Pat Andrews welcomed the opportunity to have their teams play each other, thus renewing the decades-dormant series northland hockey fans have been so hungry to see.

How hungry? A petition for the game to be played was created on the online platform change.org and directed at Duluth East activities director Shawn Roed. Multiple columns imploring the two schools to give fans the event they so crave have been written in the Duluth News Tribune over the years. All to no avail, until this year.

Tonight's game should be highly competitive. Hermantown is 8-0-0 and ranked No. 1 in Class 1A. The Hawks feature the state's leading scorer in sophomore sensation Zam Plante and a leading Mr. Hockey candidate in bruising, high-scoring defenseman Joey Pierce. Duluth East is off to a 4-1-1 start and led by sophomore Cole Christian's 10 points.

“I think it will be fun,” said Andrews, a former Hawks player in his fourth season as head coach. “At the end of the day, it is just another game. The broader hockey community is way more excited than us, I think. People have wanted to see this game for years.”

Andrews, like legendary Hermantown coach Bruce Plante before him, has issued a standing request to Randolph to resume the series that ended after Hermantown’s 4-2 triumph on Jan, 28, 1999 — the Hawks’ first and only win over the Greyhounds.

Randolph counters with a standing reply: “Bruce Plante for years, until he gave up on asking me, would say, ‘Can we play you guys?’ ” Randolph said. “I said, ‘For sure, come on up to double-A. I’ll schedule you the next day. I told Andrews the same thing.

“I just feel they belong in (Section 7AA). We would have one more northern team in our section that can represent the northern part of the state.”

A Hermantown move up to Class 2A doesn't appear imminent.

“We’re OK with the status quo,” Andrews said last year before the state tournament. “Everyone pushing so hard to catch us in our section, the teams are becoming so much better.”


The Pat Andrews comment at the end is beyond a Brutal Statement wonder if he will say the same this year after pounding 7A 30-0 in the Sectional..... Randolph while has his own things really spot on...

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:57 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:36 pm

“We’re OK with the status quo,” Andrews said last year before the state tournament. “Everyone pushing so hard to catch us in our section, the teams are becoming so much better.”[/b]

The Pat Andrews comment at the end is beyond a Brutal Statement wonder if he will say the same this year after pounding 7A 30-0 in the Sectional..... Randolph while has his own things really spot on...
Wow, thanks for posting. Hadn't seen this before.

Agree completely with your take at the end. This is one of my questions when people say "your program needs to get better!". How good are 7A schools supposed to get? To be on par with Hermantown, they'd need to be able to compete with the very best in AA every year. No community school can do that. Not Roseau, not Warroad, not even GR, who isn't too far from having a AA enrollment and recently won a AA title, for cripes' sake. Community schools are at the mercy of talent cycles, no matter how good their program is.

rainier2
Posts: 720
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:13 pm

I just don't get why there hasn't been a revolt by the players. They know they can play with the best in AA. They beat the #1 seed at the AA tourney 4-1! And they lost by a goal to the #2 seed in a game where Zam didn't even play!

They should be out front of the AD's office chanting "Let us play! Double A!" [-(

headsupsticksdown
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by headsupsticksdown » Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:54 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:13 pm
I just don't get why there hasn't been a revolt by the players. They know they can play with the best in AA. They beat the #1 seed at the AA tourney 4-1! And they lost by a goal to the #2 seed in a game where Zam didn't even play!

They should be out front of the AD's office chanting "Let us play! Double A!" [-(
The kids could care less, they just want to play. It’s the supposed adults in the conversation that are the issue, as it often is. Again, let’s hope Andrews finally pulls through so he can see the light.

GopherHockey
Posts: 293
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by GopherHockey » Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:53 am

headsupsticksdown wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:54 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:13 pm
I just don't get why there hasn't been a revolt by the players. They know they can play with the best in AA. They beat the #1 seed at the AA tourney 4-1! And they lost by a goal to the #2 seed in a game where Zam didn't even play!

They should be out front of the AD's office chanting "Let us play! Double A!" [-(
The kids could care less, they just want to play. It’s the supposed adults in the conversation that are the issue, as it often is. Again, let’s hope Andrews finally pulls through so he can see the light.
How about, let’s hope they don’t. Hopefully New Prague plays a physical style and punches them in the mouth. Wear them down a little, Alexandria or MPLS a little more and Warroad to finish them off.

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:21 am

Appears Hermantown has less love in northern MN than the golden rodents who, despite all of their built in advantages, haven’t won anything in 30 years and at best have been the 4th best team in Minnesota over the past 10 years.

GopherHockey
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by GopherHockey » Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:34 am

Getitright wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:21 am
Appears Hermantown has less love in northern MN than the golden rodents who, despite all of their built in advantages, haven’t won anything in 30 years and at best have been the 4th best team in Minnesota over the past 10 years.
:lol:

bronco2828
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by bronco2828 » Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:19 am

Move up or move on. Hermantown bitched with the rest of us when St. Thomas dominated Class A and they moved up. It's like reverse sandbagging. The Hawks play a predominate AA schedule during the season then step down and play the Class A Tourney. Being a 25+ Bronco fan in dire need of a tourney appearance, I pulled for Hermantown against The Tommies at the "X". I hope The Warriors and Hawks are in the championship game this year and Warroad wins, but if Hermantown wins, that would put the issue over the top to move up. Going down tomorrow for the duration. Go 218Hockey.

StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:46 am

Hermantown will relax and watch the big boys play some hockey today. Any game could go either way. Much more fun to watch than play. I think I get why they stay single A now. I also wouldn’t want to miss the best of MN hockey on tv.

ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:33 pm

Now that Junior Class heavy team has won the title the question becomes do they all come back next year?

YHH says NO on Zam Plante & Ty Hanson and I have nothing but respect for their sources.

Even minus those two they are still a great team next year.

But IF they stay wow what a group.

Both Plante & Hanson are UMD recruits recently (Pierce, Biondi And Gotz) all stayed their Senior year. Will Zam and Hanson continue the trend?

Again I have no idea just was kind surprised to hear Karl and Tony say they were gone when history with that college team and HS Program says otherwise.

Another year for the Plante Brothers to play together...... Both Hanson and Plante could do before and after... Very similiar to the 2017 group of Samberg, Sandelin and Jasques all stuck around to go back to back....

If they stick which I have no idea on man they would maybe be the best Hawks version.... maybe EVER???

Fun offseason talk in Class A puck

TheNightman
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by TheNightman » Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:51 pm

They could be the best team in the state regardless of class if everyone is back.

StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:30 am

Saw that Zam got a team USA invite. Will be tough to turn that down.

ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:43 am

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:30 am
Saw that Zam got a team USA invite. Will be tough to turn that down.
You mean Max did.

Zam already turned down the USA Program.

Again I have no idea if Zam will be back but I know the USA Program is not the draw in Hermantown it is other places. Biondi turned it down a few years back to play for the Hawks.

WestMetro
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by WestMetro » Tue May 24, 2022 4:29 pm

Might the new Htown AD Alex White be more interested at some point in moving up and winning an AA title ?🤔

StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:52 am

Huge victory last night for Hermantown 15-1 over North Shore to advance to the semis of Section 7A hockey. Next up, Hibbing.

Hermantown wins in 2022-23 over Class AA teams:
Cretin 6-3
Hill 3-1
Rosemount 4-3
EP 6-2
Moorhead 3-2
Benilde 7-2
Chaska 3-1
Grand Rapids 4-1

Go get ‘em boys! Hopefully the Hawks can pull one out over Hibbing next round. Rooting for you. GO HAWKS!!!

rainier2
Posts: 720
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:34 am

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:52 am
Huge victory last night for Hermantown 15-1 over North Shore to advance to the semis of Section 7A hockey. Next up, Hibbing.

Hermantown wins in 2022-23 over Class AA teams:
Cretin 6-3
Hill 3-1
Rosemount 4-3
EP 6-2
Moorhead 3-2
Benilde 7-2
Chaska 3-1
Grand Rapids 4-1

Go get ‘em boys! Hopefully the Hawks can pull one out over Hibbing next round. Rooting for you. GO HAWKS!!!
And it blows my mind that this is a team that lost its three best players before the season. An NHL draft pick, an NTDP stud, and possibly the best defenseman in MN, all three of whom committed to UMD as sophomores. :shock:

I'd bet that those players would have stayed if they were going to have a chance at their school's first AA title, but the prospect of putting everyone at the X into running time, Warroad included, isn't likely an exciting one. Once again the Hawks had a team good enough to win the AA title, but they just refuse to go for it. It continues to boggle the mind. #-o

Nostalgic Nerd
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Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Nostalgic Nerd » Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:13 am

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:52 am
Huge victory last night for Hermantown 15-1 over North Shore to advance to the semis of Section 7A hockey. Next up, Hibbing.

Hermantown wins in 2022-23 over Class AA teams:
Cretin 6-3
Hill 3-1
Rosemount 4-3
EP 6-2
Moorhead 3-2
Benilde 7-2
Chaska 3-1
Grand Rapids 4-1

Go get ‘em boys! Hopefully the Hawks can pull one out over Hibbing next round. Rooting for you. GO HAWKS!!!
I gotta assume you're joking, right? :mrgreen: [-X
I can splash in the rink puddles!

ClassAGuy
Posts: 2564
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:27 am

Local View: Hermantown hockey is a juggernaut — that’s draining joy from other schools’ programs
Opinion by Scott Pionk
February 24, 2023 10:03 AM


Hermantown High School's decision to remain in Class A hockey has officially made a mockery of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota.

The decision pushed Duluth Denfeld and Rock Ridge high schools to opt up to class AA. Both schools stated their reason was an attempt to attract more players. I suspect the real reason is to avoid playing Hermantown in the playoffs.

For competition purposes, the Minnesota State High School League (MSHSL) divides member schools by enrollment. Sounds fair, but it's not that simple. In 1992-93, one year after creating a two-tiered hockey playoff, the state mandated that all schools participate in open enrollment. The purpose was to give students access to programs their community may not offer but their neighbor does. This sounds great in theory, but how could it affect athletics, in this case boys' hockey? Things would never be the same.

Enter Hermantown's situation. The wooded hamlet adjacent to Duluth was once an area where the U.S. government handed Depression-era, "Jackson Project" homes, complete with chickens and cows, to Duluth residents to get them out of the city to start a life. Hermantown, by its nature, will never have a large high school. A now-affluent community, it houses professionals who used to populate the east end of Duluth. With them have come their offspring. Athletic and well-heeled, they make up sports teams that are the envy of Northeastern Minnesota.

In 2007, Hermantown won its first state Class A hockey title. In 2010, Duluth announced the closing of Central High School. Athletes scattered, and Hermantown gained hockey players. That winter, Hermantown's eighth- and ninth-grade bantams handed Duluth East its first loss in district play in over 10 years. That same winter, Hermantown's sixth- and seventh-grade pee wees defeated East 10-0. Hermantown was soon to be the new Duluth East, similar to Edina East taking over Minneapolis Southwest in the late 60s and early 70s.

Hermantown has made the Class A state tournament 12 of the last 13 seasons. The MSHSL rationale for two-class hockey 30 years ago was to give small schools a chance at playing in the state tournament, the exposure sure to boost hockey enrollment. Denfeld has lost to Hermantown in three straight section finals by a combined score of 24-1. The Hunters should have played in three state tournaments and seen that bump. They have not.

Hermantown's program has kids in it who live in surrounding communities or whose families moved to Hermantown. Each player means about $10,000 in public funding for their education.

As a former member of the Hermantown Hockey association and longtime hockey camp conductor, I can count up to 50 skaters who moved to the Hermantown program from other schools over the last 10 to 15 years. If they average half their school years in Hermantown, it adds up to over $3 million for the Hawks and a massive loss for their neighbors. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a situation where one organization loses an asset and a governing body pays the organization receiving that asset. High school hockey is not a business. It’s an athletic endeavor in an educational setting — for kids.

The current playoff system is a disaster. Hermantown is making a joke of it and laughing all the way to the bank. Its current schedule boasts 13 Class AA opponents. Versus local teams in either class, this season's aggregate score is 52-5. This coming on the heels of Hermantown blanking its three local opponents 30-0 in last season's playoffs. Let that sink in. Hermantown has outscored local "competition" 82-5 in the last 11 games it has played and then opted to "compete" at the lowest level for the next two seasons.

The MSHSL needs to institute a new rule immediately. All teams must be required to compete at the Class A or AA level exclusively, regular season and playoffs. Teams can't have their cake and eat it too by offering a class AA schedule to their recruits, transfers, and open-enrollees and a guarantee to play on television in the state Class A tournament. The occurrence of this situation has become a death knell for any school without a strong hockey history.

For now, the MSHSL has left the future of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota in the hands of the caretakers of the game in each community. The caretakers in Hermantown have made it clear they are in the business of taking care of Hermantown.

One principle that educational institutions try to instill in their students is that it's hard to do the right thing. If Hermantown is conveying to its student athletes that outscoring its opponents 82-5 is OK, I and much of Northeastern Minnesota would strongly disagree.

Surprisingly, pushback from the people of Northeastern Minnesota has been mild. It's called Minnesota Nice. The dysfunction in our playoff system would be met with a lot of noise in Detroit, Chicago, Boston, or anywhere in Canada.

Hermantown's geographic location has given it access to athletes and affluent parents that no class A team in Northeastern Minnesota remotely approaches. Instead of giving back to the game, its choices are subjugating and draining the joy out of every small-school team in the area.

It's past time for Hermantown to stop hiding behind an archaic state high school league rule and do the right thing.

Scott Pionk is a longtime Hermantown High School hockey parent. In April, he was tapped to lead the new hockey program at Stella Maris Academy in Duluth. He wrote this for the News Tribune.

headsupsticksdown
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Location: Depends where the puck is being dropped...

Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by headsupsticksdown » Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:16 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:27 am
Local View: Hermantown hockey is a juggernaut — that’s draining joy from other schools’ programs
Opinion by Scott Pionk
February 24, 2023 10:03 AM


Hermantown High School's decision to remain in Class A hockey has officially made a mockery of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota.

The decision pushed Duluth Denfeld and Rock Ridge high schools to opt up to class AA. Both schools stated their reason was an attempt to attract more players. I suspect the real reason is to avoid playing Hermantown in the playoffs.

For competition purposes, the Minnesota State High School League (MSHSL) divides member schools by enrollment. Sounds fair, but it's not that simple. In 1992-93, one year after creating a two-tiered hockey playoff, the state mandated that all schools participate in open enrollment. The purpose was to give students access to programs their community may not offer but their neighbor does. This sounds great in theory, but how could it affect athletics, in this case boys' hockey? Things would never be the same.

Enter Hermantown's situation. The wooded hamlet adjacent to Duluth was once an area where the U.S. government handed Depression-era, "Jackson Project" homes, complete with chickens and cows, to Duluth residents to get them out of the city to start a life. Hermantown, by its nature, will never have a large high school. A now-affluent community, it houses professionals who used to populate the east end of Duluth. With them have come their offspring. Athletic and well-heeled, they make up sports teams that are the envy of Northeastern Minnesota.

In 2007, Hermantown won its first state Class A hockey title. In 2010, Duluth announced the closing of Central High School. Athletes scattered, and Hermantown gained hockey players. That winter, Hermantown's eighth- and ninth-grade bantams handed Duluth East its first loss in district play in over 10 years. That same winter, Hermantown's sixth- and seventh-grade pee wees defeated East 10-0. Hermantown was soon to be the new Duluth East, similar to Edina East taking over Minneapolis Southwest in the late 60s and early 70s.

Hermantown has made the Class A state tournament 12 of the last 13 seasons. The MSHSL rationale for two-class hockey 30 years ago was to give small schools a chance at playing in the state tournament, the exposure sure to boost hockey enrollment. Denfeld has lost to Hermantown in three straight section finals by a combined score of 24-1. The Hunters should have played in three state tournaments and seen that bump. They have not.

Hermantown's program has kids in it who live in surrounding communities or whose families moved to Hermantown. Each player means about $10,000 in public funding for their education.

As a former member of the Hermantown Hockey association and longtime hockey camp conductor, I can count up to 50 skaters who moved to the Hermantown program from other schools over the last 10 to 15 years. If they average half their school years in Hermantown, it adds up to over $3 million for the Hawks and a massive loss for their neighbors. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a situation where one organization loses an asset and a governing body pays the organization receiving that asset. High school hockey is not a business. It’s an athletic endeavor in an educational setting — for kids.

The current playoff system is a disaster. Hermantown is making a joke of it and laughing all the way to the bank. Its current schedule boasts 13 Class AA opponents. Versus local teams in either class, this season's aggregate score is 52-5. This coming on the heels of Hermantown blanking its three local opponents 30-0 in last season's playoffs. Let that sink in. Hermantown has outscored local "competition" 82-5 in the last 11 games it has played and then opted to "compete" at the lowest level for the next two seasons.

The MSHSL needs to institute a new rule immediately. All teams must be required to compete at the Class A or AA level exclusively, regular season and playoffs. Teams can't have their cake and eat it too by offering a class AA schedule to their recruits, transfers, and open-enrollees and a guarantee to play on television in the state Class A tournament. The occurrence of this situation has become a death knell for any school without a strong hockey history.

For now, the MSHSL has left the future of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota in the hands of the caretakers of the game in each community. The caretakers in Hermantown have made it clear they are in the business of taking care of Hermantown.

One principle that educational institutions try to instill in their students is that it's hard to do the right thing. If Hermantown is conveying to its student athletes that outscoring its opponents 82-5 is OK, I and much of Northeastern Minnesota would strongly disagree.

Surprisingly, pushback from the people of Northeastern Minnesota has been mild. It's called Minnesota Nice. The dysfunction in our playoff system would be met with a lot of noise in Detroit, Chicago, Boston, or anywhere in Canada.

Hermantown's geographic location has given it access to athletes and affluent parents that no class A team in Northeastern Minnesota remotely approaches. Instead of giving back to the game, its choices are subjugating and draining the joy out of every small-school team in the area.

It's past time for Hermantown to stop hiding behind an archaic state high school league rule and do the right thing.

Scott Pionk is a longtime Hermantown High School hockey parent. In April, he was tapped to lead the new hockey program at Stella Maris Academy in Duluth. He wrote this for the News Tribune.
Excellent take by Coach who has been very vocal about this dating back years…. One of the best coaches/men that have touched my kids game.

rainier2
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:24 pm

Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:23 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:27 am
Local View: Hermantown hockey is a juggernaut — that’s draining joy from other schools’ programs
Opinion by Scott Pionk
February 24, 2023 10:03 AM


Hermantown High School's decision to remain in Class A hockey has officially made a mockery of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota.

The decision pushed Duluth Denfeld and Rock Ridge high schools to opt up to class AA. Both schools stated their reason was an attempt to attract more players. I suspect the real reason is to avoid playing Hermantown in the playoffs.

For competition purposes, the Minnesota State High School League (MSHSL) divides member schools by enrollment. Sounds fair, but it's not that simple. In 1992-93, one year after creating a two-tiered hockey playoff, the state mandated that all schools participate in open enrollment. The purpose was to give students access to programs their community may not offer but their neighbor does. This sounds great in theory, but how could it affect athletics, in this case boys' hockey? Things would never be the same.

Enter Hermantown's situation. The wooded hamlet adjacent to Duluth was once an area where the U.S. government handed Depression-era, "Jackson Project" homes, complete with chickens and cows, to Duluth residents to get them out of the city to start a life. Hermantown, by its nature, will never have a large high school. A now-affluent community, it houses professionals who used to populate the east end of Duluth. With them have come their offspring. Athletic and well-heeled, they make up sports teams that are the envy of Northeastern Minnesota.

In 2007, Hermantown won its first state Class A hockey title. In 2010, Duluth announced the closing of Central High School. Athletes scattered, and Hermantown gained hockey players. That winter, Hermantown's eighth- and ninth-grade bantams handed Duluth East its first loss in district play in over 10 years. That same winter, Hermantown's sixth- and seventh-grade pee wees defeated East 10-0. Hermantown was soon to be the new Duluth East, similar to Edina East taking over Minneapolis Southwest in the late 60s and early 70s.

Hermantown has made the Class A state tournament 12 of the last 13 seasons. The MSHSL rationale for two-class hockey 30 years ago was to give small schools a chance at playing in the state tournament, the exposure sure to boost hockey enrollment. Denfeld has lost to Hermantown in three straight section finals by a combined score of 24-1. The Hunters should have played in three state tournaments and seen that bump. They have not.

Hermantown's program has kids in it who live in surrounding communities or whose families moved to Hermantown. Each player means about $10,000 in public funding for their education.

As a former member of the Hermantown Hockey association and longtime hockey camp conductor, I can count up to 50 skaters who moved to the Hermantown program from other schools over the last 10 to 15 years. If they average half their school years in Hermantown, it adds up to over $3 million for the Hawks and a massive loss for their neighbors. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a situation where one organization loses an asset and a governing body pays the organization receiving that asset. High school hockey is not a business. It’s an athletic endeavor in an educational setting — for kids.

The current playoff system is a disaster. Hermantown is making a joke of it and laughing all the way to the bank. Its current schedule boasts 13 Class AA opponents. Versus local teams in either class, this season's aggregate score is 52-5. This coming on the heels of Hermantown blanking its three local opponents 30-0 in last season's playoffs. Let that sink in. Hermantown has outscored local "competition" 82-5 in the last 11 games it has played and then opted to "compete" at the lowest level for the next two seasons.

The MSHSL needs to institute a new rule immediately. All teams must be required to compete at the Class A or AA level exclusively, regular season and playoffs. Teams can't have their cake and eat it too by offering a class AA schedule to their recruits, transfers, and open-enrollees and a guarantee to play on television in the state Class A tournament. The occurrence of this situation has become a death knell for any school without a strong hockey history.

For now, the MSHSL has left the future of high school hockey in Northeastern Minnesota in the hands of the caretakers of the game in each community. The caretakers in Hermantown have made it clear they are in the business of taking care of Hermantown.

One principle that educational institutions try to instill in their students is that it's hard to do the right thing. If Hermantown is conveying to its student athletes that outscoring its opponents 82-5 is OK, I and much of Northeastern Minnesota would strongly disagree.

Surprisingly, pushback from the people of Northeastern Minnesota has been mild. It's called Minnesota Nice. The dysfunction in our playoff system would be met with a lot of noise in Detroit, Chicago, Boston, or anywhere in Canada.

Hermantown's geographic location has given it access to athletes and affluent parents that no class A team in Northeastern Minnesota remotely approaches. Instead of giving back to the game, its choices are subjugating and draining the joy out of every small-school team in the area.

It's past time for Hermantown to stop hiding behind an archaic state high school league rule and do the right thing.

Scott Pionk is a longtime Hermantown High School hockey parent. In April, he was tapped to lead the new hockey program at Stella Maris Academy in Duluth. He wrote this for the News Tribune.
This is incredible. =D>

I fully support Scott's call for an A or AA only schedule. (Except I'd allow conference games as an exception.) I still think the best answer is dividing AA/A by using the rural/urban designation the state of MN uses for certain gov't programs, combined with a one-time state title exemption for any urban team, but the A or AA only schedule is a good start.

I also agree with his assessment that "Surprisingly, pushback from NE MN has been mild." Every time I'd hear a 7A coach "take the high road" and refuse to say anything about Hermantown dominating because of open enrollees and transfers, I would just think about how Bruce Plante had no problem complaining about big city schools beating up on real hometown programs, so if Bruce could do this and still be held up as a model of great HS hockey coaching, then why couldn't a coach from Hibbing, Denfeld, Virginia, Greenway, etc, do the same?

That Denfeld and Rock Ridge had to go AA to have a shot at going to state is insane. (Hibbing absolutely should have also, IMO. :x ) Every year 7A is producing teams that are in the top 10, and often in the top 5, yet these teams are put into running time by Hermantown. Many people not from NE MN see these scores and think it's because 7A programs must suck, not because Hermantown collects talent from all over all along the way from mites to HS. I've seen and heard this most clearly the past few years with Hibbing's excellent youth teams: parents from metro teams are shocked that Hibbing can compete with them. :shock:

I don't know Scott, but one of my best friends played for him in juniors. About 7 years ago I asked my friend if he thought Scott would want Hermantown to be in AA. He replied, "I guarantee he wants them to be in AA." 8)

Thank you Scott, for being a voice of reason. =D>

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BSUBeaver » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:14 pm

Maybe it is time for the MSHSL to look at a "Success Point" system for classification of schools? I have heard North Dakota does something like this in football. You get so many points per year based on if you make the State Playoffs and how far you go. 1 point for making the State playoffs, 2 points for making the Semis, 3 points winning the Championship, if you accumulate so many points (say 12 over four years as you could get six in one year), you get bumped up. Everyone starts out with their placement based on enrollment as they do now. If you are an A school by enrollment and your four year "Success Point" total is over the limit, you get bumped up.

Every two year classification cycle, you take a look at the previous four years. If you are an A school that has been bumped up, and your new total falls back below 12, you can slide back down.

The MSHSL still could allow opt ups and opt downs based on the criteria they have in place now.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:43 pm

BSUBeaver wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:14 pm
Maybe it is time for the MSHSL to look at a "Success Point" system for classification of schools? I have heard North Dakota does something like this in football. You get so many points per year based on if you make the State Playoffs and how far you go. 1 point for making the State playoffs, 2 points for making the Semis, 3 points winning the Championship, if you accumulate so many points (say 12 over four years as you could get six in one year), you get bumped up. Everyone starts out with their placement based on enrollment as they do now. If you are an A school by enrollment and your four year "Success Point" total is over the limit, you get bumped up.

Every two year classification cycle, you take a look at the previous four years. If you are an A school that has been bumped up, and your new total falls back below 12, you can slide back down.

The MSHSL still could allow opt ups and opt downs based on the criteria they have in place now.
Things like this aren't necessary unless you've got the Hermantowns (and previous to that STAs) of the world who are unable to see the forest for the trees. They see a trophy case filled with hardware, see kids flooding into their ranks to play for them, have documentaries made about them, and get to dismantle most everyone they play. So everything appears fine and dandy. What they don't see is how this damages the rest of the NE MN teams, and how it erodes the joy of it for others. Sure, they're 'playing by the rules' and apparently thats plenty good enough for Hermantown folks. But the spirit of any rule is what should matter here. And they aren't abiding by the spirit of the rule, which is what I believe Scott Pionk was at least in part expressing.

So now everyone needs to wring their hands and ponder how to construct a setting that doesn't allow for teams to take advantage, when all it would really take is for Hermantown to just step up.

How distant it feels for me to recall rooting like a madman for the Hawks to win a title and beat STA. It's hard to believe they actually used to have fans outside of Hermantown. Not anymore!
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 pm

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:43 pm
BSUBeaver wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:14 pm
Maybe it is time for the MSHSL to look at a "Success Point" system for classification of schools? I have heard North Dakota does something like this in football. You get so many points per year based on if you make the State Playoffs and how far you go. 1 point for making the State playoffs, 2 points for making the Semis, 3 points winning the Championship, if you accumulate so many points (say 12 over four years as you could get six in one year), you get bumped up. Everyone starts out with their placement based on enrollment as they do now. If you are an A school by enrollment and your four year "Success Point" total is over the limit, you get bumped up.

Every two year classification cycle, you take a look at the previous four years. If you are an A school that has been bumped up, and your new total falls back below 12, you can slide back down.

The MSHSL still could allow opt ups and opt downs based on the criteria they have in place now.
Things like this aren't necessary unless you've got the Hermantowns (and previous to that STAs) of the world who are unable to see the forest for the trees. They see a trophy case filled with hardware, see kids flooding into their ranks to play for them, have documentaries made about them, and get to dismantle most everyone they play. So everything appears fine and dandy. What they don't see is how this damages the rest of the NE MN teams, and how it erodes the joy of it for others. Sure, they're 'playing by the rules' and apparently thats plenty good enough for Hermantown folks. But the spirit of any rule is what should matter here. And they aren't abiding by the spirit of the rule, which is what I believe Scott Pionk was at least in part expressing.

So now everyone needs to wring their hands and ponder how to construct a setting that doesn't allow for teams to take advantage, when all it would really take is for Hermantown to just step up.

How distant it feels for me to recall rooting like a madman for the Hawks to win a title and beat STA. It's hard to believe they actually used to have fans outside of Hermantown. Not anymore!
Ha! Thats rich coming from a private school guy. Private schools have destroyed the community model and you have the audacity to criticize Hermantown? You're school has done the same thing for 40 years. Go fly a kite
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:41 pm

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 pm
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:43 pm
BSUBeaver wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:14 pm
Maybe it is time for the MSHSL to look at a "Success Point" system for classification of schools? I have heard North Dakota does something like this in football. You get so many points per year based on if you make the State Playoffs and how far you go. 1 point for making the State playoffs, 2 points for making the Semis, 3 points winning the Championship, if you accumulate so many points (say 12 over four years as you could get six in one year), you get bumped up. Everyone starts out with their placement based on enrollment as they do now. If you are an A school by enrollment and your four year "Success Point" total is over the limit, you get bumped up.

Every two year classification cycle, you take a look at the previous four years. If you are an A school that has been bumped up, and your new total falls back below 12, you can slide back down.

The MSHSL still could allow opt ups and opt downs based on the criteria they have in place now.
Things like this aren't necessary unless you've got the Hermantowns (and previous to that STAs) of the world who are unable to see the forest for the trees. They see a trophy case filled with hardware, see kids flooding into their ranks to play for them, have documentaries made about them, and get to dismantle most everyone they play. So everything appears fine and dandy. What they don't see is how this damages the rest of the NE MN teams, and how it erodes the joy of it for others. Sure, they're 'playing by the rules' and apparently thats plenty good enough for Hermantown folks. But the spirit of any rule is what should matter here. And they aren't abiding by the spirit of the rule, which is what I believe Scott Pionk was at least in part expressing.

So now everyone needs to wring their hands and ponder how to construct a setting that doesn't allow for teams to take advantage, when all it would really take is for Hermantown to just step up.

How distant it feels for me to recall rooting like a madman for the Hawks to win a title and beat STA. It's hard to believe they actually used to have fans outside of Hermantown. Not anymore!
Ha! Thats rich coming from a private school guy. Private schools have destroyed the community model and you have the audacity to criticize Hermantown? You're school has done the same thing for 40 years. Go fly a kite
Thats right! ha ha! Private schools are the devil!
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:42 pm

Just getting this out the way since I know it's coming :mrgreen:
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

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