The Hermantown Thread

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StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:11 am

Wise Old Man wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:41 am
Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm
I put that out there in hopes of some real dialogue as I why a player may be do interested in leaving the community. Based on that response, doesn’t seem to me there is any interest in really trying to deal with the issue.
The reason they choose to leave Proctor (or Denfeld, or East, or Hibbing, or Virginia, or Colorado....) is — for the umpteenth thousandth time — because they have a guaranteed trip to state almost every freaking year....
And that my friend is why Hermantown hockey is a disgrace to the game of hockey that should be competitive for all which is why CLASS A HOCKEY WAS INVENYED! Lol

StanleyCup55
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by StanleyCup55 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:19 am

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm
I put that out there in hopes of some real dialogue as I why a player may be do interested in leaving the community. Based on that response, doesn’t seem to me there is any interest in really trying to deal with the issue.
Funny thing is, he’s right! Sounds outrageous I know but it’s what they do! Why is it so hard for people to see?

They’re the best team in 7A and 7AA. This team could win championships in AA. The moment they go up I’d be a fan but I can’t when they bully actual small town teams around the rink. Like outshoot them 70-3. It’s just laughable and I find it funny that the people of Hermantown are allowed to get away with the whole “free state tourney trip every year”. That right there should explain the bs but nope, there’s still people defending this crap.

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am

I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:45 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
If you were a 7AA decision-maker, how hard would you fight to get Hermantown into your section? :D

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:54 am

rainier2 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:45 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
If you were a 7AA decision-maker, how hard would you fight to get Hermantown into your section? :D
Touché

You certainly have a point. That said, a lot of metro AA teams are playing Hermantown too, and not just in holiday tourneys. Cursory glance at their schedule from last year:

Wayzata
EP
Benilde
Hill
Cretin
Holy Family
Lakeville South
Rapids (twice)
Cloquet
St. Cloud
Looks like several more.....

Thats a lot of AA teams, with the majority not in 7AA, playing them in the regular season. Taking away all that high-end competition and replacing it with A teams Hermantown would traditionally roll over would be interesting to the dynamic.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:08 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:54 am
rainier2 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:45 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
If you were a 7AA decision-maker, how hard would you fight to get Hermantown into your section? :D
Touché

You certainly have a point. That said, a lot of metro AA teams are playing Hermantown too, and not just in holiday tourneys. Cursory glance at their schedule from last year:

Wayzata
EP
Benilde
Hill
Cretin
Holy Family
Lakeville South
Rapids (twice)
Cloquet
St. Cloud
Looks like several more.....

Thats a lot of AA teams, with the majority not in 7AA, playing them in the regular season. Taking away all that high-end competition and replacing it with A teams Hermantown would traditionally roll over would be interesting to the dynamic.
Agreed. I guess I can't blame AA teams for scheduling a good opponent, although for those whose QRF would suffer from a loss it does seem to make a lot less sense.

Because it's not their ox who's being gored, most of those AA teams have little concern for what Hermantown does to Class A hockey, that's why I've always thought a more effective and far funnier strategy would be for all the other teams in 7A to opt up to AA. They could still keep their A-heavy schedules, and could truly say "If we have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state, might as well go big." 8)

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:23 am

rainier2 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:08 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:54 am
rainier2 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:45 am


If you were a 7AA decision-maker, how hard would you fight to get Hermantown into your section? :D
Touché

You certainly have a point. That said, a lot of metro AA teams are playing Hermantown too, and not just in holiday tourneys. Cursory glance at their schedule from last year:

Wayzata
EP
Benilde
Hill
Cretin
Holy Family
Lakeville South
Rapids (twice)
Cloquet
St. Cloud
Looks like several more.....

Thats a lot of AA teams, with the majority not in 7AA, playing them in the regular season. Taking away all that high-end competition and replacing it with A teams Hermantown would traditionally roll over would be interesting to the dynamic.
Agreed. I guess I can't blame AA teams for scheduling a good opponent, although for those whose QRF would suffer from a loss it does seem to make a lot less sense.

Because it's not their ox who's being gored, most of those AA teams have little concern for what Hermantown does to Class A hockey, that's why I've always thought a more effective and far funnier strategy would be for all the other teams in 7A to opt up to AA. They could still keep their A-heavy schedules, and could truly say "If we have to beat a top AA-caliber team to get to state, might as well go big." 8)
:lol:

I like it.

I do wonder if Hermantown's generally snake-bitten title game issues have contributed as well. It gives them an out to stay in A when they're not exactly loading up the trophy case with championships. The fact that Hermantown has only won 2 titles in the last 12 years is sort of astounding and is probably helping their justification for staying in A. Losing 6 straight title games is rough stuff! Hard to believe there was a time not that long ago [2011, 2012, 2013] where just about everyone in the state was rooting for Hermantown in those championship games.

Anyhoo, I root for a team most people hate too so what can I really say.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Wet Paint
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
In the end the QRF score is just a score. YOu still have to beat everybody in your section and then if/when you move onto state you have to win all of your games. What better way to find out how your team is than by taking on one of the top AA teams in the state? All areas of your game are tested. If you win or lose on the scoreboard is not really a big deal, you got a chance to see your team up against one of the best that can be put together from around northern mn and out of state to see what needs to be worked on before the games matter. AA teams are crazy not to schedule them.

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:53 am

Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
In the end the QRF score is just a score. YOu still have to beat everybody in your section and then if/when you move onto state you have to win all of your games. What better way to find out how your team is than by taking on one of the top AA teams in the state? All areas of your game are tested. If you win or lose on the scoreboard is not really a big deal, you got a chance to see your team up against one of the best that can be put together from around northern mn and out of state to see what needs to be worked on before the games matter. AA teams are crazy not to schedule them.
You're missing the point. The point is that if 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' of people in the state feel Hermantown should be AA, then there's a simple solution: AA teams outside their conference shouldn't schedule them. But I guess 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' don't include decision-makers or influential folks in AA that have the power to put a hurt on Hermantown's ability to essentially only play A at the high school level.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Usthockey13
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Usthockey13 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:09 am

You mean what Duluth East has been doing with Hermantown for the past 22 years?

Wet Paint
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:53 am
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:09 am
I believe this has been brought up in the past, but I'll bring it up again: If the vast majority of people agree that Hermantown should be playing in AA, and think that staying in A is sandbagging, then why do AA teams continue to schedule them (this weird year aside, and conference games that may mix A and AA teams aside, as well)? Evidently there aren't many people in decision-making roles that feel this way about Hermantown, or they would do something about it. Seems to me there is a straightforward solution to this, which is for non-conference AA teams to stop scheduling Hermantown in the regular season. When Hermantown plays half or more of their schedule against not only AA teams, but top AA teams, you're sort of giving them an out from having the move up to AA.
In the end the QRF score is just a score. YOu still have to beat everybody in your section and then if/when you move onto state you have to win all of your games. What better way to find out how your team is than by taking on one of the top AA teams in the state? All areas of your game are tested. If you win or lose on the scoreboard is not really a big deal, you got a chance to see your team up against one of the best that can be put together from around northern mn and out of state to see what needs to be worked on before the games matter. AA teams are crazy not to schedule them.
You're missing the point. The point is that if 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' of people in the state feel Hermantown should be AA, then there's a simple solution: AA teams outside their conference shouldn't schedule them. But I guess 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' don't include decision-makers or influential folks in AA that have the power to put a hurt on Hermantown's ability to essentially only play A at the high school level.
I get that point and have brought it up before. I think that is what should happen but when I look at it from the stand point of those AA programs and coaches I can see their side of it also.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:29 am

Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:53 am
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am


In the end the QRF score is just a score. YOu still have to beat everybody in your section and then if/when you move onto state you have to win all of your games. What better way to find out how your team is than by taking on one of the top AA teams in the state? All areas of your game are tested. If you win or lose on the scoreboard is not really a big deal, you got a chance to see your team up against one of the best that can be put together from around northern mn and out of state to see what needs to be worked on before the games matter. AA teams are crazy not to schedule them.
You're missing the point. The point is that if 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' of people in the state feel Hermantown should be AA, then there's a simple solution: AA teams outside their conference shouldn't schedule them. But I guess 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' don't include decision-makers or influential folks in AA that have the power to put a hurt on Hermantown's ability to essentially only play A at the high school level.
I get that point and have brought it up before. I think that is what should happen but when I look at it from the stand point of those AA programs and coaches I can see their side of it also.
Totally, and I get that side of it. Hill plays Hermantown here and there. If the majority of parents of existing players, former players, fans of the team, current and former students, etc. all put pressure on Bill Lechner and Erin Herman to stop playing them and relayed that they would no longer support the program unless they did, my guess would be that Hermantown would be off the schedule.

People have the power to change this if it's really that big a deal to them. But clearly it's not, because from what I can tell there has been no effort by any community or school participating in AA (with the exception of the above-referenced Duluth East) to put together a grass-roots effort to effect change. Instead it's 71+ pages of whining on the board 8)
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:00 pm

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:29 am
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 am
BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:53 am


You're missing the point. The point is that if 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' of people in the state feel Hermantown should be AA, then there's a simple solution: AA teams outside their conference shouldn't schedule them. But I guess 'everyone' or 'the vast majority' don't include decision-makers or influential folks in AA that have the power to put a hurt on Hermantown's ability to essentially only play A at the high school level.
I get that point and have brought it up before. I think that is what should happen but when I look at it from the stand point of those AA programs and coaches I can see their side of it also.
Totally, and I get that side of it. Hill plays Hermantown here and there. If the majority of parents of existing players, former players, fans of the team, current and former students, etc. all put pressure on Bill Lechner and Erin Herman to stop playing them and relayed that they would no longer support the program unless they did, my guess would be that Hermantown would be off the schedule.

People have the power to change this if it's really that big a deal to them. But clearly it's not, because from what I can tell there has been no effort by any community or school participating in AA (with the exception of the above-referenced Duluth East) to put together a grass-roots effort to effect change. Instead it's 71+ pages of whining on the board 8)
Whining started by Bruce Plante and Hermantown fans. Never forget that. We whiners learned from a strong, strong whining program. :D

O-townClown
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I hope Gentry bludgeons Hermantown 12-0

Post by O-townClown » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:16 pm

It won't happen, but it sure would be hilarious. It would be so hard for people who care to avoid sounding hypocritical given their past comments on the subject.

I'm not alone in thinking the state's A class should not include: a) strong private schools, or b) any HS team that routinely is as strong as the best AA teams.

2021 is an aberration for Gentry. They'll be AA soon. I applaud the move. Like Blake & Totino-Grace they want to play in the higher class and don't see any reason to wait a long time like Breck, Benilde-St. Margaret's, and St. Thomas Academy did.

2021 is business as usual for Hermantown. Proud Roseau hasn't been competitive as an opt-up in many seasons since their last state title. I find the variance in viewpoint peculiar. Can anyone explain how people in these two places see things so much differently? On second thought, don't bother. Anyone defending Hermantown at Class A usually sounds like a kook. (The sensible ones just say, "yeah..we should play AA. It's too bad they don't.")

The Class A state tournament would be great this season without these two, showcasing teams like Mankato West or East, Fergus Falls, LDC, Denfeld, and whoever else. Kids that don't normally get exposure. Instead we likely get one great game on the back end pitting two mostly untested squads in a winner-take-all tilt on a crowded Saturday from the X.

My hope is that 2021 is a low-water mark for Class A and it only gets better from here.
Be kind. Rewind.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 pm

In response to O-town's locked Gentry crushes Hermantown thread:

Agreed. Kudos to Gentry for using Class A as a stepping stone, as it should be for teams capable of competing well in AA, and not a permanent trophy platform.

I also think about how great the state tournament would be watching Fergus, LDC, Denfeld, etc. battling it out in games that wouldn't be in running time. Or imagine if the AA-caliber teams had actually moved up to AA, and Luverne might have had a shot at winning an A title? How huge of a boost would that be for southern MN hockey in general?

The worst part for me is the warping of expectations for true Class A programs. Hibbing is the #3 team in A in 2016, yet lose their two games to Herm that season 15-0? Denfeld being a possibly top 5 A team this year, yet getting outshot 56-13 by Herm in a game that wasn't anywhere near as close as the 6-3 score implied? Greenway needing two top 6 forwards and a good goalie to transfer there that season so they could turbo-boost their already top 5 A team enough to finally scrape by a down Herm squad in sections? A loaded, top-seeded Warroad team finishing 4th in last year's tourney after being outscored 11-5 by two big city schools? Being highly ranked in Class A has almost become meaningless.

As a Hibbing fan, this warping of expectations hit home again this season. 4-5 years ago, Hibbing's two best players left for greener pastures, as there seemed to be a sense of "this team is terrible, so we might as well go somewhere else". A big part of this, to be sure, was repeated beatings at the hands of Herm at youth levels, combined with the widespread myth that Herm was using a small enrollment to do so.

Fast forward to this season. One of those two top Hibbing players returned for his senior season, and Hibbing just played top ten Denfeld competitively last night. If the other player who left, Galatz, had stayed, Hibbing is very likely a top ten A team this year. Something is seriously, seriously wrong in Class A when a program that has the talent to be a top ten team is repeatedly accused of being "crappy" and inferior, to the point where players want to leave.

So, long story short, a 12-0 Gentry win would be great, and I guess we'd have no choice but to tell the losing team to make their own "crappy" program better. 8)

GoldenBear
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by GoldenBear » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:47 pm

Like Game Stop, I see this thread running!....enjoy the ride. GB

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:21 pm

I am just not convinced that the class A tournament will ever get to a point where there aren't blowouts. How do you do that? There is just so much variablilty in class A. Rain what are your thoughts on what Warroad should do? They are going to be absolutely stacked in a couple of years. Their bantams are 23-0-1 and have beat some good AA teams including #6 Wayzata and Moorhead. They obliterate middle of the road AA teams and looking at their comp scores with Hermantown might be better. Add in some super sophomores like Shaugabay and Slukynsky and this will be a legit team. Should they move up now to get ahead of that? They will absolutely destroy some teams at the state tournament in a couple of years and could no doubt contend at the AA tournament. On the other side it would be no easy task to get through the likes of Rogers and Moorhead. Keep in mind they have been to one class A tournament in 10 years. Move up, when like you say they can obviously compete and would destroy teams in the class A tournament, or risk not even going? Other programs that are generally considered "true class A" by most including 2014 & 2015 EGF have been in the same position. Just wondering where the line is.

Also a little color on your comments about last year's tournament. Warroad beat Cathedral by 3 goals in the regular season and also beat teams like Moorhead and GR. I don't think it is inconceivable that they could have won that tournament and were a legitimate threat. Also, one of those invincible big city teams that you reference (Cathedral) is terrible this year.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:33 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:21 pm
I am just not convinced that the class A tournament will ever get to a point where there aren't blowouts. How do you do that? There is just so much variablilty in class A. Rain what are your thoughts on what Warroad should do? They are going to be absolutely stacked in a couple of years. Their bantams are 23-0-1 and have beat some good AA teams including #6 Wayzata and Moorhead. They obliterate middle of the road AA teams and looking at their comp scores with Hermantown might be better. Add in some super sophomores like Shaugabay and Slukynsky and this will be a legit team. Should they move up now to get ahead of that? They will absolutely destroy some teams at the state tournament in a couple of years and could no doubt contend at the AA tournament. On the other side it would be no easy task to get through the likes of Rogers and Moorhead. Keep in mind they have been to one class A tournament in 10 years. Move up, when like you say they can obviously compete and would destroy teams in the class A tournament, or risk not even going? Other programs that are generally considered "true class A" by most including 2014 & 2015 EGF have been in the same position. Just wondering where the line is.

I think you've asked "where the line" is before, and I'll say what I've always said: I don't know exactly where that line is, but it is waaaay before a team starts beating the AA champ on an annual basis.

As for Warroad's upcoming dynamite teams, I'll also say what I've always said about these situations: If you already have a warehouse full of Class A hardware, why would you NOT look for any opportunity to go for it in AA when you've got a shot? If I'm Warroad and these teams have competed well with Rogers, Moorhead, or whoever are the top 8AA teams are likely to be, then I'd opt up and take my shot. Wouldn't you?


Also a little color on your comments about last year's tournament. Warroad beat Cathedral by 3 goals in the regular season and also beat teams like Moorhead and GR. I don't think it is inconceivable that they could have won that tournament and were a legitimate threat. Also, one of those invincible big city teams that you reference (Cathedral) is terrible this year.

You're free to believe whatever you want about last year's Warroad team, but they got outscored 11-6 in the two games they lost. So, "they could have won that tournament and were a legitimate threat" if they hadn't given up 11 goals in two games vs city teams? If you say so... :roll:

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:57 pm

I am not referencing Hermantown as I think they should want to move up. But you are always quick to draw the line, on several programs, not just Hermantown. Which I think is easy to say when it isn't you, your kid, your program. If they were to move up and get beat in sections there will be a lot of people wondering why when we finally get a great team we are sitting at home instead of competing for a state championship. I like when teams move up, to be honest it is part of what makes the AA tournament. If not for teams like Bemidji, Roseau, Rapids, etc opting up I think the tournament loses something. But people have to realize kid's on teams that didn't make it sacrificed experiences in the A tournament for that.

I am comfortable with my statement. The Mahtomedi game got away from them at 5-1 but the Cathedral game was 6-4 with an EN and the winning goal scored with about 3 minutes left. Warroad was up 4-2 in the 3rd. I think on any given night Warroad or Cathedral could have won the title. As a matter of fact that Cathedral team did the year before.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:09 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:57 pm
I am not referencing Hermantown as I think they should want to move up. But you are always quick to draw the line, on several programs, not just Hermantown. Which I think is easy to say when it isn't you, your kid, your program. If they were to move up and get beat in sections there will be a lot of people wondering why when we finally get a great team we are sitting at home instead of competing for a state championship. I like when teams move up, to be honest it is part of what makes the AA tournament. If not for teams like Bemidji, Roseau, Rapids, etc opting up I think the tournament loses something. But people have to realize kid's on teams that didn't make it sacrificed experiences in the A tournament for that.

Why is this the only outcome you consider? What if, god forbid, Warroad won 8AA? I think everyone from Warroad, ever, would be pretty darn happy with that. And, if they did lose 8AA, it is equally as true that they might say "Well, we didn't make it, but we went for it against the best.", which, by the way, is exactly what GR, Roseau, Bemidji, Cloquet, and many metro privates do every year when they don't make it to state.

You know what would be much, much worse for a Warroad fan? Beating Moorhead during the regular season, losing the Class A title game to Hermantown, then watching Moorhead win the AA tournament later that night.


I am comfortable with my statement. The Mahtomedi game got away from them at 5-1 but the Cathedral game was 6-4 with an EN and the winning goal scored with about 3 minutes left. Warroad was up 4-2 in the 3rd. I think on any given night Warroad or Cathedral could have won the title. As a matter of fact that Cathedral team did the year before.

But Warroad didn't, not even close.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:15 pm

I have considered that they may win. But it is a much tougher road and I guarantee if you ask them if they want to be a shoe in for the semi finals at the class A tournament and potentially win it all or risk being beat in sections by a couple of other teams that will be top 10 AA they will chose the former. They don't want to waste their shot. Heck even this year(or last) Warroad would have as good a chance as anyone to win 8AA. Do you think given that option right now they would take it? I bet not.

It is nice to think that people say "Well we didn't make it, but we went for it against the best" and it fits your narrative well, but in reality people aren't saying that. In fact once Hermantown moves up and 7A is a little more open don't be surprised to find an opt up or two move down in your section.

I honestly don't think most people see it that way. They'd rather avoid the higher risk of losing and not going at all. Unfortunate, maybe, but it is reality.

You do realize that by refusing to accept regular season results and the "eye" test of the actual games you are setting me up for saying since Hermantown has only won state twice they have only been the best class A team twice. If I am Hermantown I am saying "Get off our back, we have only been the best team in A twice in our existence!". Remember no pulling out regular season results or they got lucky etc.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:40 pm

The other one that comes to mind is Hermantown can’t even beat teams like Alexandria and Greenway. Do we really think they could win 7AA or a AA championship? Remember just cherry pick a result from the playoffs and ignore everything else.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:47 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:15 pm
I have considered that they may win. But it is a much tougher road and I guarantee if you ask them if they want to be a shoe in for the semi finals at the class A tournament and potentially win it all or risk being beat in sections by a couple of other teams that will be top 10 AA they will chose the former. They don't want to waste their shot. Heck even this year(or last) Warroad would have as good a chance as anyone to win 8AA. Do you think given that option right now they would take it? I bet not.

They might not even get their shot this year. Ever hear of EGF? There's yet another reason why Warroad could just have gone for it these past two years: the other top team in 8A is just as good as any 8AA team!!! #-o

It is nice to think that people say "Well we didn't make it, but we went for it against the best" and it fits your narrative well, but in reality people aren't saying that. In fact once Hermantown moves up and 7A is a little more open don't be surprised to find an opt up or two move down in your section.\

This is strange, because after replying to your last post, I thought to myself "I don't think any team has regretted opting up to AA." I've never heard anyone from Hibbing say they were disappointed they missed out on A experiences when they were opting up to AA. Same for Greenway, GR, Roseau, Bemidji, Cloquet, Duluth Marshall, and metro privates. The only thing I've ever heard is pride that they went for the big goal, no matter the end result. I don't think it's possible for you to be more wrong on this, but, you know, "it fits your narrative well".

I honestly don't think most people see it that way. They'd rather avoid the higher risk of losing and not going at all. Unfortunate, maybe, but it is reality.

I disagree, because there are still a bunch of schools that gladly accept the higher risk of losing, but maybe that is the reality now, where players don't play for their school or their program, they play for themselves and the praise they and their parents will get on social media. That is unfortunate.

You do realize that by refusing to accept regular season results and the "eye" test of the actual games you are setting me up for saying since Hermantown has only won state twice they have only been the best class A team twice. If I am Hermantown I am saying "Get off our back, we have only been the best team in A twice in our existence!". Remember no pulling out regular season results or they got lucky etc.

First of all, Hermantown has won state three times, not two. And I agree, Hermantown has been best team in Class A more than that, they just choked, or were uninterested, or have a sub-par coach now; i dont know which one it is, take your pick.

And if you're referring to Warroad's ugly performance in last year's tourney, please realize their goalie had an .820 sv % in their two losses. Whether the defense hung him out to dry or he was just off, either way in no universe does that give you a chance to win a title vs teams like Hermantown, Cathedral, etc. Not sure what kind of "eye test" an .820 sv % passes. :oops:

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:49 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:40 pm
The other one that comes to mind is Hermantown can’t even beat teams like Alexandria and Greenway. Do we really think they could win 7AA or a AA championship? Remember just cherry pick a result from the playoffs and ignore everything else.
So the point you're trying to make is that Warroad could have won last year's A title, but they totally choked? Okay, then we agree.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:41 pm

I am just telling you how it is. People don’t see it the way you do. They don’t see it as an A and B tournament like you are trying to make it. And as far as EGF I am aware, but the road to the section final is far different, so is the state tournament itself and they know that.

If you haven’t heard this talk then you just aren’t talking to people. I’m sorry you just aren’t.

Assume Hermantown does move up. It looks like Hibbing’s PeeWees are pretty good. Beat the great Hermantown by 5 goals. Also beat Rapids and East and currently sport a number 1 ranking at class A. I assume based on your comments that you are lobbying to be AA by the time this group gets there and it also sounds like it will happen with all that support. If they do get beat in sections I promise you there will be talk of it. As a matter of fact if you go poll that teams parents right now I am guessing you may for the first time hear something you claim you’ve never heard. That they have second thoughts about “going for it”.

This is a small and shrinking pool. By far the minority.

I don’t want to comment on individual kid’s performances or call anyone a choker. But I will ask who’s point are you trying to make? On any given night Warroad could have beat any of those teams. I am sticking by that absolutely.

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