The Hermantown Thread

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BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:55 am

Fun fact- Hill Murray has never beaten Hermantown

They've played twice, Hawks winning both by identical 4-1 scores.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:59 pm

Not sure about them being down after this year. If everyone comes back they will likely me much better next year and likely very good in 2 years.

ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:41 pm

Getitright wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Not sure about them being down after this year. If everyone comes back they will likely me much better next year and likely very good in 2 years.
norcon was talking about Grand Rapids being down.

Scary thing is that Hermantown will be BETTER next year if Zam stays they will be the top team in the State and there will no questions about it next year.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by MNHockeyFan » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:46 am

ClassAGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:41 pm
Scary thing is that Hermantown will be BETTER next year if Zam stays they will be the top team in the State and there will no questions about it next year.
We will never know until they win the AA tourney.

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by east hockey » Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:06 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:46 am
ClassAGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:41 pm
Scary thing is that Hermantown will be BETTER next year if Zam stays they will be the top team in the State and there will no questions about it next year.
We will never know until they win the AA tourney.
=D>

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ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:35 pm

AA Hermantown Bantams lost 2-1 in OT to Bemidji in the Back Door game to get to State. The Hawks will not qualify for AA State this year at the 8th and 9th Grade.

No way they can Move up now :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:34 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:35 pm
AA Hermantown Bantams lost 2-1 in OT to Bemidji in the Back Door game to get to State. The Hawks will not qualify for AA State this year at the 8th and 9th Grade.

No way they can Move up now :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
And it's about to get so much worse for those 9th graders. Not only do they not get to go to state, but now they have to go through the process of "trophychasification", whereby the Hermantown HS program takes these great youth players that have been capable of competing with the best in AA for years, and turns them into only good enough to compete in Class A.

I'm not sure how they're able to dial down such awesomeness, but I bet it's painful. :lol:

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:18 pm

I wonder two things here.
1. Why do so many people care so much about this?
2. How many of the hundreds of posts can Rainer2 claim?

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:54 pm

Getitright wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:18 pm
I wonder two things here.
1. Why do so many people care so much about this?
2. How many of the hundreds of posts can Rainer2 claim?
1. Because when Hermantown was losing to STA and Breck in the title game every year, Bruce Plante and the Hermantown faithful wailed to the heavens that it wasn't fair that a big city team made up of kids "from all over" was beating up on a small town team full of "hometown kids". And now that Hermantown has been doing the same thing, all of sudden those who criticize Hermantown are "whiners", or "their team needs to step up." See how idiotic that is?

2. Only time will tell... 8)

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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Immigrant Fan » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:41 pm

I can't believe this debate is still going, since clearly it is irrelevant. Nothing said here or shared beyond is going to change how peewee hermantown conducts their hockey program.

I'm going to skip the Wednesday evening session, since I see no point to watching peewee hermantown beat up on New Prague. Although it is a shame to miss out on Alexandria versus Minneapolis, I have better ways to spend my time from 6:20 to 8:30.

Please, can everyone stop capitalizing hermantown? They are small town hockey suitable for lower case letters. Use lower case as a reminder to all how small peewee hermantown is in every respect.
Not born here...
...but, would hate to leave

headsupsticksdown
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by headsupsticksdown » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:44 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:54 pm
Getitright wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:18 pm
I wonder two things here.
1. Why do so many people care so much about this?
2. How many of the hundreds of posts can Rainer2 claim?
1. Because when Hermantown was losing to STA and Breck in the title game every year, Bruce Plante and the Hermantown faithful wailed to the heavens that it wasn't fair that a big city team made up of kids "from all over" was beating up on a small town team full of "hometown kids". And now that Hermantown has been doing the same thing, all of sudden those who criticize Hermantown are "whiners", or "their team needs to step up." See how idiotic that is?

2. Only time will tell... 8)
I get it and I kinda see the differences though. Comparing a private school in the cities of the caliber of STA and Breck (we’re not talking Providence Academy here) and the level of “recruiting” that goes on in Hermantown is a bit different. But I’m guessing you’re looking at it in comparison to what a school like Proctor or even Denfeld has at their fingertips. It’s been beaten to death, but what do these programs offer superior to Hermantown and why don’t these programs focus on making them a destination for area kids instead? I’m not arguing here, I’m simply stating a valid point. All St. Paul area schools (including Woodbury, Stillwater, etc.) are all dealing with similar issues. Hardly any St. Paul kids end up sticking around their local HS and why would they when they have 1/4 of the facilities and resources that a school like Hill, Cretin, STA or even SPA offer?

I agree they should move up to AA, but some of the other points brought up in this thread have nothing to do with A vs AA. Drive up to Hermantown Arena any time in the summer and you’ll see what I mean. Those kids bust tail to get where they are and have so much support in the community. I’m not saying other kids aren’t doing the same, but making it sound like everything falls into their lap is simply not true…

We should all be rooting for them to win State this year because if they do, I’d almost guarantee their move to AA gets expedited.

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:58 pm

Point being 1900+ posts to date. Everyone who tunes in knows what most posters opinions are. At what point do we all just move on? Ya they sandbag. Yah they have kids enroll from outside. Now posts they never have had a good goalie or their small town so let’s not capitalize the name. What exactly are these posts trying to accomplish? Just odd to me that mature grown ups have nothing more to do than post 1900+ times over 76 pages repeating themselves over and over again.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Getitright wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:58 pm
Point being 1900+ posts to date. Everyone who tunes in knows what most posters opinions are. At what point do we all just move on? Ya they sandbag. Yah they have kids enroll from outside. Now posts they never have had a good goalie or their small town so let’s not capitalize the name. What exactly are these posts trying to accomplish? Just odd to me that mature grown ups have nothing more to do than post 1900+ times over 76 pages repeating themselves over and over again.
Apparently you don't have anything better to do either, as you are criticizing that there is too much criticizing. Very meta.

I'll move on when the Hawks do.

WestMetro
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by WestMetro » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:20 pm

Reliable West Metro sources said both Bruce Plante and Pat Andrews agreed - when this thread got to 100 pages , that the Hawks will file notice to move up. Play on boys !

ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:25 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Apparently you don't have anything better to do either, as you are criticizing that there is too much criticizing. Very meta.

I'll move on when the Hawks do.
Hawks Hate which is as strong as every with people all over the State. I think the 30-0 Blowouts of Section 7A struck a nerve that this is getting kind of nuts and scary thing is they will be BETTER next year. I have been putting together my Way-Too-Early Class A Rankings for 2022-23 to come out on Sunday once the Tourney Wraps up and wow if they all come back they are a very Scary group next year they could make a mockery of the tourney as there is no Warroad group in the field looking toward next year to at least give the folks one good game... Then again we say this a lot and come this time of the year for the last 4 years Coach Andrews teams haven't got it done so that part does make it enjoyable but its getting to the point where they have such a talent advantage they are bound to win won finally here. To me they deserve a ton of credit for how they have grown their program ultimately its up to them and they are not losing kids due to staying down they are gaining players cause they know its an auto bid to March. If they went 7AA they could lose and then would kids like Bonidi, Piece and Zam stick their Senior year if they was a doubt about State? I have no idea just random thoughts.

Rainer side not as I make my Way Too Early Class A poll fro next year Hibbing is entering a good era of hockey again they will return a very good Class fo Juniors who will be Seniors next year and both their A Bantam and A Pee Wee groups are at State next week. Keep an eye on Hibbing!

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:27 pm

headsupsticksdown wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:44 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:54 pm
Getitright wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:18 pm
I wonder two things here.
1. Why do so many people care so much about this?
2. How many of the hundreds of posts can Rainer2 claim?
1. Because when Hermantown was losing to STA and Breck in the title game every year, Bruce Plante and the Hermantown faithful wailed to the heavens that it wasn't fair that a big city team made up of kids "from all over" was beating up on a small town team full of "hometown kids". And now that Hermantown has been doing the same thing, all of sudden those who criticize Hermantown are "whiners", or "their team needs to step up." See how idiotic that is?

2. Only time will tell... 8)
I get it and I kinda see the differences though. Comparing a private school in the cities of the caliber of STA and Breck (we’re not talking Providence Academy here) and the level of “recruiting” that goes on in Hermantown is a bit different. But I’m guessing you’re looking at it in comparison to what a school like Proctor or even Denfeld has at their fingertips. It’s been beaten to death, but what do these programs offer superior to Hermantown and why don’t these programs focus on making them a destination for area kids instead? I’m not arguing here, I’m simply stating a valid point. All St. Paul area schools (including Woodbury, Stillwater, etc.) are all dealing with similar issues. Hardly any St. Paul kids end up sticking around their local HS and why would they when they have 1/4 of the facilities and resources that a school like Hill, Cretin, STA or even SPA offer?

I agree they should move up to AA, but some of the other points brought up in this thread have nothing to do with A vs AA. Drive up to Hermantown Arena any time in the summer and you’ll see what I mean. Those kids bust tail to get where they are and have so much support in the community. I’m not saying other kids aren’t doing the same, but making it sound like everything falls into their lap is simply not true…

We should all be rooting for them to win State this year because if they do, I’d almost guarantee their move to AA gets expedited.
You bring up the concept of "attracting" talent. That was what Bruce was saying was the whole problem. Denfeld and Proctor shouldn't need to be trying to get "kids from everywhere", they should be trying to compete with "hometown kids". Class A shouldn't be about who attracts the most talent, it should be about who can do well with the kids they have in their school district, because many Class A teams are community schools, with no surrounding metro area to draw from. When Bruce said "A is where we belong", it was because he believed they were just using hometown kids.

AA is an attraction-fest. It's accepted that you are trying to draw in as much talent as you can. Most of the AA teams are in metro areas, so it makes sense to say "what do these programs offer that is superior to (metro school here) and why don't these programs focus on making them a destination for area kids instead?". Not in Class A. At least that's what I think the idea was when Class A was created.

And I get that the Hermantown kids bust their tails, and it doesn't all into their laps. What does fall into their laps are talented teammates. Again, it is completely true that "At least half of Hermantown's talent were known to be good players before they ever put on a Hawk jersey for the first time." The narrative that Hermantown is churning out all this talent purely because their program is so good is hogwash, and it is damaging to area schools, as some parents buy into this fantasy, and move their talented kid to Hermantown.

If Hermantown had to play only with kids who actually live in the Hermantown school district, which is what actual community schools do, their teams would look very different. Still very good, but we wouldn't be talking about them needing to move to AA.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:35 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:20 pm
Reliable West Metro sources said both Bruce Plante and Pat Andrews agreed - when this thread got to 100 pages , that the Hawks will file notice to move up. Play on boys !
Hey Westy, what other small town kids should ditch their teammates and community for Hermantown? You really loved the Joey Pierce move, I remember. Man, transferring to Hermantown was really a rocket ship to success for him, huh? 8 points in 45 games as a 19 yo in the USHL. Just imagine if he had stayed in Ely, he might only have 5 or 6 points!!! :roll:

Better yet, I'll rent you a motor coach, and you can drive through all the NE MN towns and personally speak to the high-end players about how they won't ever reach their potential unless they move to Hermantown. Just load them up and drop them off at the Hawkdome! The sooner we can extinguish hockey on the iron range the better, right? (Just be careful to avoid Scott Pionk, though, for he did say at a Hermantown school board meeting that Hermantown staying in A was killing 7A hockey.)

GopherHockey
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by GopherHockey » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:47 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:25 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Apparently you don't have anything better to do either, as you are criticizing that there is too much criticizing. Very meta.

I'll move on when the Hawks do.
Hawks Hate which is as strong as every with people all over the State. I think the 30-0 Blowouts of Section 7A struck a nerve that this is getting kind of nuts and scary thing is they will be BETTER next year. I have been putting together my Way-Too-Early Class A Rankings for 2022-23 to come out on Sunday once the Tourney Wraps up and wow if they all come back they are a very Scary group next year they could make a mockery of the tourney as there is no Warroad group in the field looking toward next year to at least give the folks one good game... Then again we say this a lot and come this time of the year for the last 4 years Coach Andrews teams haven't got it done so that part does make it enjoyable but its getting to the point where they have such a talent advantage they are bound to win won finally here. To me they deserve a ton of credit for how they have grown their program ultimately its up to them and they are not losing kids due to staying down they are gaining players cause they know its an auto bid to March. If they went 7AA they could lose and then would kids like Bonidi, Piece and Zam stick their Senior year if they was a doubt about State? I have no idea just random thoughts.

Rainer side not as I make my Way Too Early Class A poll fro next year Hibbing is entering a good era of hockey again they will return a very good Class fo Juniors who will be Seniors next year and both their A Bantam and A Pee Wee groups are at State next week. Keep an eye on Hibbing!
That would say quite a bit about the kids if they left early because they might face a challenge in sections.

headsupsticksdown
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by headsupsticksdown » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:52 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:35 pm
WestMetro wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:20 pm
Reliable West Metro sources said both Bruce Plante and Pat Andrews agreed - when this thread got to 100 pages , that the Hawks will file notice to move up. Play on boys !
Hey Westy, what other small town kids should ditch their teammates and community for Hermantown? You really loved the Joey Pierce move, I remember. Man, transferring to Hermantown was really a rocket ship to success for him, huh? 8 points in 45 games as a 19 yo in the USHL. Just imagine if he had stayed in Ely, he might only have 5 or 6 points!!! :roll:

Better yet, I'll rent you a motor coach, and you can drive through all the NE MN towns and personally speak to the high-end players about how they won't ever reach their potential unless they move to Hermantown. Just load them up and drop them off at the Hawkdome! The sooner we can extinguish hockey on the iron range the better, right? (Just be careful to avoid Scott Pionk, though, for he did say at a Hermantown school board meeting that Hermantown staying in A was killing 7A hockey.)
Rainier, absolutely nothing prevents any A school from allowing a kid to come and “move in”. Frown upon it all you want and sure, it should be like community hockey all through to HS right? Sounds nice and all, but sadly those days are gone for the youth level is even overflowing with nut job parents looking to bolt at the drop of a penny once their kid is shunned to the B1 team. Hibbing needs more than Boomtown to attract talent my man!! Haha…

In all seriousness, it’s going to get worse IMO as hockey will continue to increase in cost (with parents having to make choices vs other priorities) and unfortunately these types of situations will continue to arise. I really hope the upcoming group of kids on the range stick around. But it’ll take much more than hopes and dreams. And HTown has a Costco now!!

All in good fun…

ClassAGuy
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by ClassAGuy » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:58 pm

GopherHockey wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:47 pm
ClassAGuy wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:25 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Apparently you don't have anything better to do either, as you are criticizing that there is too much criticizing. Very meta.

I'll move on when the Hawks do.
Hawks Hate which is as strong as every with people all over the State. I think the 30-0 Blowouts of Section 7A struck a nerve that this is getting kind of nuts and scary thing is they will be BETTER next year. I have been putting together my Way-Too-Early Class A Rankings for 2022-23 to come out on Sunday once the Tourney Wraps up and wow if they all come back they are a very Scary group next year they could make a mockery of the tourney as there is no Warroad group in the field looking toward next year to at least give the folks one good game... Then again we say this a lot and come this time of the year for the last 4 years Coach Andrews teams haven't got it done so that part does make it enjoyable but its getting to the point where they have such a talent advantage they are bound to win won finally here. To me they deserve a ton of credit for how they have grown their program ultimately its up to them and they are not losing kids due to staying down they are gaining players cause they know its an auto bid to March. If they went 7AA they could lose and then would kids like Bonidi, Piece and Zam stick their Senior year if they was a doubt about State? I have no idea just random thoughts.

Rainer side not as I make my Way Too Early Class A poll fro next year Hibbing is entering a good era of hockey again they will return a very good Class fo Juniors who will be Seniors next year and both their A Bantam and A Pee Wee groups are at State next week. Keep an eye on Hibbing!
That would say quite a bit about the kids if they left early because they might face a challenge in sections.
Not at all saying that would happen. Just isn't right now part of the appeal of the Hawks the free trip to State every year? I have no idea just seems like part of the attraction besides a GREAT program I dont want to take away from that. Is that you are going to play on TV in March. I knwo I will get blasted but I dont think kids care rather its A or AA as much anymore these days. Again its a random thought probably way off.

This thread just picks up steam every year arund March when Hermantown throttles a top 10 in Section Final. Didnt they beat Hibbing like 8-0 one year when Hibbign was a top 5 team? It doesnt really matter Coach Andrews took over and told everyone in ear shot they were going AA and then they failed and didnt even make the championship his 1st year and then didnt even make state his 2nd. He backed off of those statements of AA pretty quick when it was no longer a given they would be playing in the State A Title game ever year. I have no idea who makes the choices and I am sure they dont care my opinion....

My point is next year they will be a buzzsaw and could do what STA did at state before public outcry from the public school champs or all Hawks addresses made news and made them the enemy until they moved up.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:58 pm

headsupsticksdown wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:52 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:35 pm
WestMetro wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:20 pm
Reliable West Metro sources said both Bruce Plante and Pat Andrews agreed - when this thread got to 100 pages , that the Hawks will file notice to move up. Play on boys !
Hey Westy, what other small town kids should ditch their teammates and community for Hermantown? You really loved the Joey Pierce move, I remember. Man, transferring to Hermantown was really a rocket ship to success for him, huh? 8 points in 45 games as a 19 yo in the USHL. Just imagine if he had stayed in Ely, he might only have 5 or 6 points!!! :roll:

Better yet, I'll rent you a motor coach, and you can drive through all the NE MN towns and personally speak to the high-end players about how they won't ever reach their potential unless they move to Hermantown. Just load them up and drop them off at the Hawkdome! The sooner we can extinguish hockey on the iron range the better, right? (Just be careful to avoid Scott Pionk, though, for he did say at a Hermantown school board meeting that Hermantown staying in A was killing 7A hockey.)
Rainier, absolutely nothing prevents any A school from allowing a kid to come and “move in”. Frown upon it all you want and sure, it should be like community hockey all through to HS right? Sounds nice and all, but sadly those days are gone for the youth level is even overflowing with nut job parents looking to bolt at the drop of a penny once their kid is shunned to the B1 team. Hibbing needs more than Boomtown to attract talent my man!! Haha…

In all seriousness, it’s going to get worse IMO as hockey will continue to increase in cost (with parents having to make choices vs other priorities) and unfortunately these types of situations will continue to arise. I really hope the upcoming group of kids on the range stick around. But it’ll take much more than hopes and dreams. And HTown has a Costco now!!

All in good fun…
Fair enough. Community hockey is officially dead in MN. Any town that isn't large enough to have a Panera must immediately stop playing hockey, salvage the few decent kids by sending them immediately to a real program (i.e., rich suburb), and we can finally end this charade that community pride is a worthwhile pursuit. 8)

WestMetro
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by WestMetro » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:05 pm

Ranier - mixing two different issues.

Move up ? - Yes long overdue . Do the right thing Pat.

Kids moving to district or open enroll? - Just so within rules .
Agree - incentive will decline if they’d move up so Hawks appearance at X is no longer guarantee

Range Hockey - family roots on range , so i know the history and today’s challenges . Hoping for the best .

Joey - loved him as an 8th/9th grade bantam Elite and all the high school years . Not sure Sandy was recruiting for points- he knows what he’s getting . Havent kept that close since he left the Hawks.

On to page 80!

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:12 pm

Guys. 10 posts since my last one. All with comments on page 79 that were made by you and others countless times on pages 1-78. We get your point. Not even saying your wrong. But move on.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:17 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:05 pm
Ranier - mixing two different issues.

Move up ? - Yes long overdue . Do the right thing Pat.

Kids moving to district or open enroll? - Just so within rules .
Agree - incentive will decline if they’d move up so Hawks appearance at X is no longer guarantee

Range Hockey - family roots on range , so i know the history and today’s challenges . Hoping for the best .

Joey - loved him as an 8th/9th grade bantam Elite and all the high school years . Not sure Sandy was recruiting for points- he knows what he’s getting . Havent kept that close since he left the Hawks.

On to page 80!
Fair enough. I see we agree on several points.

Your comment on iron range hockey seems so dour, so I would like to just make the point that hockey on the Range is doing just fine. We've seen some very high-end Hibbing and Greenway teams, and Virginia and Eveleth have also had some top ten A teams over the last decade. Hibbing has another excellent group coming up, Virginia and Eveleth bantams were both very solid this year and will now combine forces, and Greenway seemingly has a bucketload of talent at squirts. Point being: there have been and continue to be very good Class A teams coming from there, it's just that nobody knows about them because they lose by 8 goals to a metro AA team masquerading as an A team.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:25 pm

Getitright wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:12 pm
Guys. 10 posts since my last one. All with comments on page 79 that were made by you and others countless times on pages 1-78. We get your point. Not even saying your wrong. But move on.
You do realize you have the option to not read them, right?

Repetition is how humans learn. I can't refute a "Hermantown is great because their program is the greatest in history!" claim just once and expect that to be the end of it. Falsehoods such as that are pernicious, and need to be addressed each time they pop up. You don't brush your teeth once, say "mission accomplished" then never brush them again, right? Same with this. Regular cleanings and checkups are needed to keep any overblown illusions and hoodwinking narratives at bay. :lol:

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